SM vs. USUM

[FinnishPokéFan92]

Which one do you personally think was a better pair of games? Sun and Moon or Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon?

 

[Esserise]

For the most part, I prefer Ultra, hands-down. There's a much healthier Pokédex selection, fun features like the Photo Club, Mantine Surf, and Ultra Warp Ride; an actual eighth trial, a better post-game story with Episode RR, helpful Rotom Powers and Move Tutors, and a total deluge of new small sub-events and Easter eggs to make the region feel more immersive and lived-in. There's other small touch-ups that further improve upon SM, such as Trainers having animations at the start of Double Battles, some of the drinks you can order at cafés now having appropriate designs, the relocated evolution spots for Charjabug and Crabrawler and earlier access to Flyinium Z opening up new strategies, and the new areas of Mount Lanakila and the Tide Song Hotel fleshing out those locations. And on a more significant note, there's the improved Totem battles. Plus, USUM introduced my #1 favorite Pokémon (Stakataka) and showed off the Ultra Beasts' homeworlds which are all really cool. Ultra Necrozma is a pretty cool design, too. And we get all of that without really sacrificing all that much from the base games - for instance, I was a big fan of the Zygarde Cell hunt in SM, as I felt it was a really novel and rewarding way of obtaining a Legendary, but USUM provides a replacement in the form of Totem Stickers. As another example, Hala is replaced as an Elite Four member by Molayne, but you still get to battle Hala with his proper team after beating the game. Things like Poké Pelago, the Poké Finder, and the QR Scanner (with some new Pokémon options swapped in) are all still there too, so it makes for a very well-rounded experience.

Of course I feel like I'm obligated, whenever this topic comes up, to remark upon my enjoyment of USUM's story alterations. I don't think USUM's story is "better" than SM's per se, and I'm not sure it would work as well as I think it does if the original SM had never existed, but with the exception of Lillie (who gets ruthlessly shoved aside by USUM), I genuinely think that USUM does a good job of diving deeper into the characterizations and profiles of the cast from SM. And yes, that includes Lusamine, who far from being "butchered" is in my opinion actually quite well-served here, and what we see in this story complements what we saw in SM and vice-versa. The only problem I have is the fact that you kinda do have to play both games to really appreciate that reciprocal story, which is a very awkward way to set things up.

 

[Jyo]

i love the games, so much different and fun from a traditional game.... as much as i love USUM story more...
i had so much fun in both games.... except for 1 part

sadly that super annoying Rotom Dex really ruined it, no way to turn it off



my vote goes to SM

 

[WyndonCalling]

Of course I feel like I'm obligated, whenever this topic comes up, to remark upon my enjoyment of USUM's story alterations. I don't think USUM's story is "better" than SM's per se, and I'm not sure it would work as well as I think it does if the original SM had never existed, but with the exception of Lillie (who gets ruthlessly shoved aside by USUM), I genuinely think that USUM does a good job of diving deeper into the characterizations and profiles of the cast from SM. And yes, that includes Lusamine, who far from being "butchered" is in my opinion actually quite well-served here, and what we see in this story complements what we saw in SM and vice-versa. The only problem I have is the fact that you kinda do have to play both games to really appreciate that reciprocal story, which is a very awkward way to set things up.

I was one of those left substantially disappointed by USUM's story, replacing the most sincere human drama to date with cheesy 50s spacemen and another plot revolving around the unfocused anger of what is ultimately a non-sapient animal. Lusamine went from a terrifyingly unhinged antagonist to legendary-fodder on par with Maxie and Archie. The story was SM's USP for me; these days a playthrough has to be significantly underwhelming for it to sink below my brainmeat containing decades of fairly similar route exploration and levelling grind, so I wasn't particularly fazed by anything SM was lacking in this respect.

 

[Morningstar]

I'll admit that I haven't cleared the ultra Games (but knowing how they end) but objectivity speaking they are the better of the pair by virute of introducing new characters and pokemon, fleshing out Necrozma and expanding the game with new features.

However I do think SM's story still has a bit of charm and the story divergences between the two leave it a matter of taste on that end.

Spoiler: Spoilers for both

For example both the story and character of Lusamine and Lillie are subtly different between the two pairs. One leaves Lusamine a villainess obsessed with the Ultra Beasts and Lillie leaving Alola for Kanto, while the other focuses on how they connect to Mohn and leaves the former less villainous and the latter less independent to some extent

Withall that said I did like the 50's Aliens and the worldbuilding the Ultra games added via them and the Ultra Spaces

Spoiler: especially

Guzzlord's

 

[Esserise]

I was one of those left substantially disappointed bu USUM's story, replacing the most sincere human drama to date with cheesy 50s spacemen and another plot revolving around the unfocused anger of what is ultimately a non-sapient animal. Lusamine went from a terrifyingly unhinged antagonist to legendary-fodder on par with Maxie and Archie. The story was SM's USP for me; these days a playthrough has to be significantly underwhelming for it to sink below my brainmeat containing decades of fairly similar route exploration and levelling grind, so I wasn't particularly phased by anything SM was lacking in this respect.

I think the key for me is that I don't really see it as a "replacement," as I suspect a lot of fans do. In my eyes, it's just an alternative scenario - I don't think it necessarily needs to be "as good" as the first, or at least not in the same ways. I definitely prefer the trajectory and tone and intimate scope of the original SM storyline, but by shifting a few elements, USUM are able to provide some additional character commentary and resolution that I think is worthwhile. Not worthwhile enough on its own to warrant a $40 pricetag, of course, so thank heavens the gameplay additions are also there, but still.

It's interesting to me, because when I think about the "storyline" of games like Ruby & Sapphire or Diamond & Pearl, I would say that did not find those stories to be particularly gripping, emotionally. They were already a sort of disposable, perfunctory narrative, and while Emerald and Platinum both retain those storylines with merely a coat of polish applied, the repetition does not lead to a sense of diminishing returns for me, because I wasn't really invested in those stories anyway. Whereas I kind of think that if USUM had tried to recreate the same emotional arc and apex that SM put forth, it would have felt distinctly hollow. I think SM's ability to invest the player and its emotional payoff are simply too good (at least by Pokémon's standards) to just be reiterated verbatim one year later and still prove as effective the second time around - like trying to catch a second bolt of lightning in a bottle.

To put it another way, SM's storyline was not merely sufficient for a Pokémon game like the stories of earlier entries that went on to be "upgraded" were, but rather, it was exceptional for a Pokémon game - leaving me to ask, what even is there to improve about it? Like, sure, you could probably make small adjustments, clarifications, etc. here and there, but at the end of the day, I think SM came in, told the story it wanted to tell and told it well, and got out. It just doesn't really need repeating.

In that regard, I believe that USUM are comparable to B2W2. The sequels to Black & White don't really try to replicate what was so beloved about the story of the first games - in general, they actually revert to a far more typical formula for the series, which in this case serves as a functional-if-unremarkable stage upon which the characters and ideas that we are now invested in (thanks to the efficacy of the first games' storytelling) can enjoy a little more space to express themselves. (Although it is easy to forget in this current era of nostalgic Gen 4 and 5 adoration and reevaluation that B2W2's changes were themselves actually fairly controversial and disliked back when those games originally came out.)

Lusamine's portrayal in the original SM was absolutely, definitely more incisive and substantial in terms of what it had to say. But those games got the point across loud and clear, so do I really want or need it spelled out for me again? Or would I rather have the sequences rearranged so that she pursues a different endgame, which is, sure, less personally investing but still ultimately in-character, and which can now leave her in a position to actually claim for herself the personality development and closure that her off-screen, comatose fate in SM rendered out of reach? To me, the latter seems like a better deal, because overall, there were many things about SM that stood to be revised, but the story wasn't one of them, so if I'm going to pay for another round of Alola games, I'm going to be more interested in the needed gameplay improvements plus new insights about the characters that won me over in the originals, than I am in just a straightforwardly better version of the game that I already played.

Also, I think the Ultra Recon Squad are rather endearing. I remember back when people first saw them in promotional imagery, that they were expected to be a sinister group, so I was pleasantly surprised by how cordial, sympathetic, and innocently naive they turned out to be. And while I will grant that Ultra Megalopolis is pretty underwhelming in execution, I find the concept pretty novel for the series. It's intriguing to me that for the first real exploration of a parallel world with an actual alien civilization, we get this sort of grim, stark, Blade Runner-lite world that's left dangling at the end of its rope as punishment for its history of exploiting a benevolent creature for personal gain. It's (very, very soft) cyberpunk, which makes for a bold counterpoint to the warm, harmonious, eco-friendly culture and tone of the Alola region.

 

[LuxrayOfTheWild]

On one hand, Sun and Moon had the slightly better story, considering I liked how the climax with Nihiligo and Lusamine was handled better than Necrozma in USUM.. Lusamine in general I thought was better in Sun and Moon, plus you did get a great moment for Lillie that wasn't present in USUM. Also in terms of story, I like that you faced Professor Kukui at the end of the game instead of Hau. The battle felt a bit more significant. This wasn't just friend vs friend. It was the student vs the teacher. A teacher who was proud of you, but not gonna give you an easy time with their final challeneg.

Content wise, USUM was just a little bit better. USUM had some more side activities, including Mantine Surf, the photo club, and the the Ultra Wormholes. Its stuff like those that I feel the games need more of. USUM did also have a better post game with the inclusion of Team Rainbow Rocket's story.

 

[GrookeyFan77]

Ultra Sun Is Sun and Moon But Better But I Have More Attachment To Sun and Moon So SM

 

[GrookeyFan77]

sadly that super annoying Rotom Dex really ruined it, no way to turn it off

Wish That Was A Feature.

 

[Puddle]

Sun and Moon have a more coherent and emotionally satisfying story, and Professor Kukui is a better final boss.

Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon are bigger on spectacle, added some great features, and I love the sci-fi aesthetic. However, the revised story lacks many of the key moments that made the original games so special, and there are things that annoy me, like Rotom's "advice you didn't ask for" and being force-teleported to the Festival Plaza three times.

I've warmed to Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon over time, but my vote still goes to Sun and Moon. What they lack in bells and whistles, they make up for in heart and soul (that isn't to say the Ultra games lack heart and soul, just that the originals have more) and that makes them the more enjoyable and satisfying games, for me.

Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon are, however, one of the only pairs of games where I bought both versions, because I really liked the fact that you can catch every legendary Pokemon between them.

 

[Aulos]

I have never finished US, but I will say that US/UM already beats out S/M because of the changes to the wild Pokemon calling for help mechanic. In S/M it could create an endless loop, in US/UM, it only happens once. Considering how annoying that feature was in Sun, this is a major improvement over S/M. However, I still like Sword/Shield better for not having it at all.

 

[Puddle]

I have never finished US, but I will say that US/UM already beats out S/M because of the changes to the wild Pokemon calling for help mechanic. In S/M it could create an endless loop, in US/UM, it only happens once. Considering how annoying that feature was in Sun, this is a major improvement over S/M. However, I still like Sword/Shield better for not having it at all.

I'd forgotten about this! It was much better having the option to trigger an endless SOS battle (by using an Adrenaline Orb), instead of it being endless by default.

Interestingly, the poll is a perfect 50/50 split right now. Four votes for SM, four for USUM, and two for "both".

 

[RC821]

Seeing all of the answers makes me think on how will the Alola remakes would be like. I want the story in the remakes to be like SM but with some elements from USUM, no Rotom or Hau interrupting you, etc.

But thread-wise, I do like Sun and Moon because it had a really powerful story that explains Lusamine and her fanatical relation to the Ultra Beasts.

 

[colours]

i prefer s/m.

nothing against usum in particular, but it took me a very long time to actually beat the pokemon league and thus clear the game. maybe it's because i've done it all before in s/m and i kinda know what to expect of usum, but i was just kinda... meh on it. i think i beat the game, did some of the post-game stuff and that was more or less it. i wasn't as enthusiastic about beating the game as i was about s/m, but rather relieved that i got it over with.

maybe if i replayed it with more motivation, i'd have a more positive opinion as i dropped the game during a time where i could not be bothered to play it and had to force myself to beat it, but as it stands s/m would be my preference. points to usum for including the mantine surfing minigame though, that was cool!

 

[Neyo]

Ultra has a much better postgame and variety of content. However, base has a better story and better villains. I would say it’s a toss-up, but the coin has a better chance of landing on the Ultra variants.

P. S. That final Lusamine fight in Sun/Moon is TERRIFYING

 

[GoldenHo-Oh]

USUM had more areas to explore and more Pokemon in the Dex so it was better overall. But SM was the first Alola game I played so I care about it too.

 

[Daenerys]

Well Sun and Moon let you attain the Ash-Greninja from the demo but USUM don't. That's one thing that bugged me. USUM had more places to visit and the Mantine Surf mini-game was actually really fun so I'm going with USUM.

 

[Nodqfan]

Seeing all of the answers makes me think on how will the Alola remakes would be like. I want the story in the remakes to be like SM but with some elements from USUM, no Rotom or Hau interrupting you, etc.

But thread-wise, I do like Sun and Moon because it had a really powerful story that explains Lusamine and her fanatical relation to the Ultra Beasts.

I'll go base S/M as well seeing Lusamine being insane and merging with Nihilego was cool and horrifying to see.

As far as remakes go it'd be difficult but I think they could implement things from both games.

 

[Puddle]

I'll go base S/M as well seeing Lusamine being insane and merging with Nihilego was cool and horrifying to see.

As far as remakes go it'd be difficult but I think they could implement things from both games.

A lot of my favourite moments from SM were cut in USUM. Lusamine doesn't fuse with Nihilego, we don't get to see the culmination of Lillie's character development where she sticks up to Lusamine (in USUM this happens off-screen), and all of Lillie's Exeggutor Island dialogue is cut as well. The alternative ending, where Gladion travels to Kanto instead of Lillie, doesn't have nearly the same emotional impact.

Also, Nebby doesn't get to be a hero! In SM, it's Nebby who opens the Ultra Wormhole, protects Lillie and the player when Lusamine loses control, and brings everyone home. In USUM, Nebby is reduced to a damsel in distress who gets absorbed by Necrozma and has to be rescued. Playing the flutes and evolving Nebby no longer has any point to it, because the Ultra Wormholes are opened by Necrozma and the Ultra Recon Squad's Pokemon instead (and the fact that the Squad happens to have another legendary Pokemon lying around makes Nebby feel less special as well). In fact, evolving Nebby actually makes the situation worse in USUM, because it gives Necrozma more power.

Although I'm not the biggest fan of DLC, I think giving SM a DLC expansion instead of an enhanced version would have been hugely beneficial story-wise. They could have left the main story alone, then, and developed a whole new postgame plot for Necrozma and the Ultra Recon Squad instead. They could have left Necrozma out of the base game and introduced it in the DLC as a new Pokemon.

I'm hoping this is what will happen if Alola ever gets a remake. SM's story for the main game, with an "Episode Ultra" in the postgame.

I do love all the characters and concepts that USUM introduced, I just didn't like how my favourite elements from SM were sacrified to make room for them. There isn't a definitive Alola game that has all the cool stuff in it.

 

[Nodqfan]

A lot of my favourite moments from SM were cut in USUM. Lusamine doesn't fuse with Nihilego, we don't get to see the culmination of Lillie's character development where she sticks up to Lusamine (in USUM this happens off-screen), and all of Lillie's Exeggutor Island dialogue is cut as well. The alternative ending, where Gladion travels to Kanto instead of Lillie, doesn't have nearly the same emotional impact.

Also, Nebby doesn't get to be a hero! In SM, it's Nebby who opens the Ultra Wormhole, protects Lillie and the player when Lusamine loses control, and brings everyone home. In USUM, Nebby is reduced to a damsel in distress who gets absorbed by Necrozma and has to be rescued. Playing the flutes and evolving Nebby no longer has any point to it, because the Ultra Wormholes are opened by Necrozma and the Ultra Recon Squad's Pokemon instead (and the fact that the Squad happens to have another legendary Pokemon lying around makes Nebby feel less special as well). In fact, evolving Nebby actually makes the situation worse in USUM, because it gives Necrozma more power.

Although I'm not the biggest fan of DLC, I think giving SM a DLC expansion instead of an enhanced version would have been hugely beneficial story-wise. They could have left the main story alone, then, and developed a whole new postgame plot for Necrozma and the Ultra Recon Squad instead. They could have left Necrozma out of the base game and introduced it in the DLC as a new Pokemon.

I'm hoping this is what will happen if Alola ever gets a remake. SM's story for the main game, with an "Episode Ultra" in the postgame.

I do love all the characters and concepts that USUM introduced, I just didn't like how my favourite elements from SM were sacrified to make room for them. There isn't a definitive Alola game that has all the cool stuff in it.

I didn't even think about making USUM DLC but it makes a ton of sense. heck throw the Rainbow Rocket in there as a separate DLC "Episode RR" while we are at it.

Although there were a few changes that USUM made that I'd like to be kept if there were remakes such as.

The Totem Ribombee, Marowak, Araqunaid, and Togedmaru battles.
Mount Lanakila is accessible way sooner so Crabominable can be obtained way sooner. Also having trainers to feel like a proper Victory Road area.
Having access to more fossil choices.