Mafia Sonic Adventure Mafia - Endgame - Mafia and Unlyncher Victory, Long Live the Eggman Empire!

[Grammaton]

I’d find it hard to believe a scum character would be implicated in such a way in another players flip of a different alignment, so whilst I have no theme knowledge, I’m just gonna treat grandhomme as town

 

[Jinjo]

So I looked at the spoiler hidden in Max role and he really does become an sk and my theory earlier thinking he would become an sk was correct.

 

[Grammaton]

It’s a good result, but not a great one.

seems safe to assume 3 mafia, so assuming no extra kills, we need to get 3 out of 5 lynches right

 

[FinalArcadia]

seems safe to assume 3 mafia, so assuming no extra kills, we need to get 3 out of 5 lynches right

I do wonder how the potential serial killer figured into balance. Might be possible to have 2 mafia + 1 (potential) SK + maybe another independent of some kind? Either that, or three mafia as you said.

 

[HumanDawn]

So I looked at the spoiler hidden in Max role and he really does become an sk and my theory earlier thinking he would become an sk was correct.

I had a feeling that was correct and now I am sad that Grande Homme didn’t die first so Max1996 could unleash his role.

You mentioned Seraph Mafia where the Unlyncher became a Serial Killer, and in that game, they killed all the Mafia, two by Nightkilling them and one by breaking the tie to get them lynched.

Town still won.

Was hoping something like that could be a reality again somehow this game and I was playing nice with Max1996 so he spares me if it ever came to that. Then lynch him later after he out welcomed his stay.

He was useful in another way, at least.

 

[FinalArcadia]

Day 1 End Vote Totals:
Max1996 - 6 (Death Meta Apres Midi, Grammaton, Grande Homme, Chevywolf30, Frozen Fennec, HumanDawn)
Jeff Peak Passenger - 3 (Jinjo, FinalArcadia, Max1996)
Frozen Fennec - 2 (Space, Lone_Garurumon)
Lone_Garurumon - 1 (Feenie)
Grande Homme - 1 (Jeff Peak Passenger)

Are we thinking there is likely at least one mafia among the Max voters? Given that it was a low-risk, "easy" (no town blood on anyone's hands) lynch, I think it's likely. Of the voters in there, Grande Homme is likeliest town by virtue of Max's role. Grammaton and HumanDawn I also townread.

Death Meta Apres Midi has some posts I like, but he was also practically laser-focused on the Max situation the whole phase in an almost tunnel-y way. Frozen Fennec I've already given my thoughts on (very beheld to the whims of the thread, if that makes sense; miller claim is really the only town point in their favor), and Chevywolf30's vote was the one on Max that felt the most thrown in there. One of those three would be my guess of likeliest mafia of the Max voters.

 

[HumanDawn]

Death Meta Apres Midi has some posts I like, but he was also practically laser-focused on the Max situation the whole phase in an almost tunnel-y way. Frozen Fennec I've already given my thoughts on (very beheld to the whims of the thread, if that makes sense; miller claim is really the only town point in their favor), and Chevywolf30's vote was the one on Max that felt the most thrown in there. One of those three would be my guess of likeliest mafia of the Max voters.

I would also say that DMAM was focused on me. Not that it’s a bad thing by itself, but considering his post content it’s pretty limiting to getting a better read on him for me when he focuses on the easy Independent claim to lynch and arguing with me about everything related to Max1996’s lynch. Even going as far as to paint me as scum for me acting like as if I knew 100 percent he would flip Independent, like as if I would actually out that. If that’s not reaching then I don’t know what is.

His comment about not lynching Jeff is also hypocritical because he criticized my use and support of meta as “trash” for not thinking Max1996 has been acting out of the ordinary, and expected me to trust Jeff’s meta when I could use the same logic against it by saying that Jeff could be self-aware of his meta and adapt accordingly.

 

[HumanDawn]

@Frozen Fennec

I know I asked you why you Town read Jinjo but I don’t recall getting a reply about that.

 

[Death Meta Apres Midi]

I would also say that DMAM was focused on me. Not that it’s a bad thing by itself, but considering his post content it’s pretty limiting to getting a better read on him for me when he focuses on the easy Independent claim to lynch and arguing with me about everything related to Max1996’s lynch. Even going as far as to paint me as scum for me acting like as if I knew 100 percent he would flip Independent, like as if I would actually out that. If that’s not reaching then I don’t know what is.

His comment about not lynching Jeff is also hypocritical because he criticized my use and support of meta as “trash” for not thinking Max1996 has been acting out of the ordinary, and expected me to trust Jeff’s meta when I could use the same logic against it by saying that Jeff could be self-aware of his meta and adapt accordingly.

By the end of the phase I was pretty convinced if Max flipped scum you were his partner so there was added incentive to the potential result.

I don't think it's a reach to think that saying you'll avenge someone that hasn't flipped yet is troubling.

There's a massive different contextually in that Jeff had ONE POST. I don't need to trust you because I can firm my own opinion based on the players content which you couldn't have done.

 

[Lone_Garurumon]

Something else that I find noteworthy is that he's fine with a Jinjo or Fennec lynch despite not feeling that strongly about either of them. He didn't have much to say about Jinjo but agrees with lynching her, which is strange. If you didn't feel strongly about either of them, why not just opt to voting the independent?

Simple, both of them had actually done things, even if somewhat minor, that were making me a little skeptical. The feeling was there, just not overly strong. Max on the other hand didn't give me any reason to feel that way, the Indep claim felt legit and in-character. And indep lynch later on is fine, but an indep lynch on D1 doesn't really tell us much. Jinjo or Fennec were likely either Town or Mafia, either one would be useful to go back and look at interactions from. Interactions from an Indep don't really tell you much.
With Max we were at least able to get lucky in that the flavour from his flip practically townclear's Homme, but that's not something I would've wanted to rely on.

I don't think it's a reach to think that saying you'll avenge someone that hasn't flipped yet is troubling.

Honestly I don't see it. I don't really feel like it implies anything malicious.

 

[Lone_Garurumon]

So is this a policy lynch or a scum lynch in that case? Not sure what a Peak Passenger lynch does for info either. Especially since nobody is weighing in that he could be a inactive townie rather than an inactive scumboi. This wagon reeks, and I’m leaning towards JPP being town now.

Reading back to take a look at some of Homme's comments, and I really gotta agree here. An inactive lynch on D1, what were y'all even thinking going up on this one? That shit's like, peak useless in terms of getting anything concrete from the lynch, and if they kept the inactivity up then they probably would've just gotten subbed out within a day or two. Definitely something sus on that wagon, seems like a good thing to check out.

 

[Lone_Garurumon]

Jeff Wagon Analysis 1/3: HumanDawn

That's fair. Obviously you would say you think they're Town here, but... could you ask the host if you can nameclaim their character..?

It might not be an optimal strategy because if Grande Homme is Town and is killed, that makes Mafia remove two players at once. Town can also decide to lynch you as a safe lynch and also get information out of Grande's role, but if we do that today then Grande Homme would likely to be killed tonight and Day 2 would just be Day 1 without you two and less players if the kill goes through unless Mafia thinks Grande isn't threatening as a potential role.



You could lose your win condition and get a new one maybe?

IMO I think letting Max and Grande Homme slide for now is... okay. If I trust Max1996 that gives me 10 players to pin 3 Mafia from.

Says that lynching Max would be not ideal lynch candidate. The reasoning makes sense, and does stay consistent with the rest of his behaviour over the day phase. Since the only reason he wound up on Max in the end is to reduce the chance of a tie.

Why not? Space posted and voted. Jinjo posted and...?

I don't like the idea of making it seem like people have to vote for someone on D1. If people don't feel like they have solid enough reads on anybody to vote in D1, then forcing them to do so just muddies up the votes by forcing them onto something they're not confident in.

Presenting two options is admittedly a binary choice tactic to limit the view of a situation instead of looking outside the options but the point stands that it is more important to vote to move the game along insteaf of sticking to one subject matter which halts the flow of the game. Voting Space enforces that point by my actions to open discussion which could lead to more different discussions instead of closing it on a certain one which from my experience yields nothing.

A decent goal, getting the thread to consider things besides Max and his claim for the full 24 hours.

My thinking is the same as Grande Homme’s for how Max1996 claimed, and what Max1996 said matches up for me too. It’s fine, and definitely not something I would go as far as to call “trash”.

This I can honestly get behind. I really don't think there was much substance behind DMAM's comments here. Max's meta and history was a valid thing to address when discussing his claim.

VOTE: Jeff Peak Passenger

Anyone for his lack of game presence?

There's always that Feenie fella.

Attempts to shift the focus to an inactive player with no value to their lynch with five hours to go in the phase. There would be nothing of informative value gained from a Jeff lynch.

Please no ties...

Unvote: Jeff Peak Passenger
Vote: Max1996

I will avenge you.

The only reason he unvotes is because Max created the risk of a tie. He was gunning for that Jeff lynch.

Overall pretty mixed bag from HD. Some good, some bad. Wouldn't be opposed to taking him out by lynch or vig, even just an investigative inspection or two to get a bit more intel on 'im.

 

[HumanDawn]

By the end of the phase I was pretty convinced if Max flipped scum you were his partner so there was added incentive to the potential result.

I don't think it's a reach to think that saying you'll avenge someone that hasn't flipped yet is troubling.

So wait, you can become pretty convinced that I am Mafia with Max based on in-thread information you can analyze that you would treat me as such, but I can't think somebody is not Mafia that I don't treat them as such based on the same tools?

There's a massive different contextually in that Jeff had ONE POST. I don't need to trust you because I can firm my own opinion based on the players content which you couldn't have done.

The context is different but you still applied meta. So far, my meta on Max1996 (which wasn't just one person's, compared to yours) which you didn't trust has been completely right because Max1996 was proven to be genuine (his only fault is not knowing he would become a Serial Killer), while you said Jeff will be more active later, yet he has only posted while under heat (minus the 1st post), said he would catch up, questioned one post out of all the posts in the game, and has been Missing In Action again this phase - all stuff you don't criticize but instead decide to criticize me over me acting like I was sure Max1996 would flip Independent after I have been posting the entire Day Phase that I thought it was more likely he was telling the truth than not. You don't need to trust me, but you can base your opinion on a player through their lack of posts as well.

 

[HumanDawn]

Reading back to take a look at some of Homme's comments, and I really gotta agree here. An inactive lynch on D1, what were y'all even thinking going up on this one? That shit's like, peak useless in terms of getting anything concrete from the lynch, and if they kept the inactivity up then they probably would've just gotten subbed out within a day or two. Definitely something sus on that wagon, seems like a good thing to check out.

Do you disagree with the below then?

He's not a townread (and in this game so far, there are several people that I tentatively do townread), I don't agree with the Max lynch or the Jinjo one, and if Jeff isn't going to make any posts to help get a read on him, then that's a slot that's going to be flying under the radar. I truly do think Max is an independent, and not a serial killer or anything like that. I'd rather take a stab at Jeff being scum than going for a slot that's likely indep, and as I said, when I townread other people, Jeff is almost leaning scum by default by PoE.

 

[HumanDawn]

I don't like the idea of making it seem like people have to vote for someone on D1. If people don't feel like they have solid enough reads on anybody to vote in D1, then forcing them to do so just muddies up the votes by forcing them onto something they're not confident in.

Me neither, but at least a vote would be better than no discussion, and it would put pressure on a player to post more content. How I see it, I voted Jinjo, a few others followed, they posted, I became satisfied and I backed down.

The only reason he unvotes is because Max created the risk of a tie. He was gunning for that Jeff lynch.

Yeah, ties are terrible. I would have stayed on the Jeff lynch if it had the majority vote, so I don't know what you're trying to say by me gunning for Jeff's lynch.

Overall pretty mixed bag from HD. Some good, some bad. Wouldn't be opposed to taking him out by lynch or vig, even just an investigative inspection or two to get a bit more intel on 'im.

Both would be wastes because I will be Nightkilled eventually :M

 

[Feenie]

Death Meta Apres Midi has some posts I like, but he was also practically laser-focused on the Max situation the whole phase in an almost tunnel-y way. Frozen Fennec I've already given my thoughts on (very beheld to the whims of the thread, if that makes sense; miller claim is really the only town point in their favor), and Chevywolf30's vote was the one on Max that felt the most thrown in there. One of those three would be my guess of likeliest mafia of the Max voters.

Out of the Max voters, the one I scumread more than the others is Chevy. His posts have only been about Max.

 

[Feenie]

You said you didn't see any other way to do it besides claiming, and I took that to mean you weren't claiming fsr

About Max.

Why are we lynching Space?

Seemingly opposed to a Space lynch. Which makes me wonder about his read on Space @Chevywolf30

Townleaning FA, gonna tentatively townlean Grande Homme, indep lean on Max. Kinda unsure on HD.

I was just thinking that Max/Grande Homme might be a viable scum team.

Interestingly townreads Grande, but then considers this to be a possibility.

His other posts consist of him finally putting a vote on Max and questioning Jinjo's pressure vote. So, yeah, I don't feel great about what's here.

 

[Lone_Garurumon]

Do you disagree with the below then?

I must've missed this one as I was looking back through, and I guess it makes it a little better. I do think Jeff would've been like, the very least useful lynch of the bunch, unless you had a Town/Indep read on literally every other player.

Yeah, ties are terrible. I would have stayed on the Jeff lynch if it had the majority vote, so I don't know what you're trying to say by me gunning for Jeff's lynch.

The problem is not shifting votes to avoid a tie, even Jeff would've been better than a no-lynch, I agree. I just still don't like the Jeff wagon, and it's your commitment to it, not getting off until the alternative is a probably tie, that's the concerning part.

 

[HumanDawn]

I must've missed this one as I was looking back through, and I guess it makes it a little better. I do think Jeff would've been like, the very least useful lynch of the bunch, unless you had a Town/Indep read on literally every other player.

I can see what you mean. I could have gone for Chevy based on the same reasoning, but at least Chevy posted a bit more. At the end of the day, you can go for one player and just go with your gut when you aren't as sure.

 

[HumanDawn]

Attempts to shift the focus to an inactive player with no value to their lynch with five hours to go in the phase. There would be nothing of informative value gained from a Jeff lynch.

This is a very interesting statement by the way.

Jeff did not claim Independent like Max and was uncounterclaimed, and barely posted, yet you are sure there would be no informative value when there was a chance he could be Mafia. If Jeff flipped Mafia, then a lot of information would be gained! Even if he flipped Town, you could still gain information from the players who tried to lynch him, or were against his lynch. This is not even taking into account that a player who is voted still gives information even if they aren't successfully lynched, because later down the line, if Jeff is Mafia, then the Max1996 lynch would be seen in the context that it could have been trying to save a scum partner. That's what voting players you have less information on can help on, because even if they barely post, you can study other player's reactions to the votes on them. Data is beautiful!

What did Jeff post throughout Day 1 to make you confident enough that he would be Town and that even a lynch on him would bring no informative value?