SPOILERS: Masters Eight Discussion/Speculation Thread

[puddleths]

Even if the intention was to have Ash battle the top 3. I can't wrap my head around Steven being #3. Seriously, what happened? Did they draw match-ups from a hat, then do the seeding?

 

[Emelie]

How it will probably end up:

Alain vs Leon - Leon wins
Lance vs Diantha - Lance wins
Cynthia vs Iris - Cynthia wins
Ash vs Steven - Ash wins

Semifinal:

Leon vs Cynthia - Leon wins (because if he fights Lance it's too predictable)
Ash vs Lance - Ash wins

Final
Leon vs Ash - Ash wins

Crazy idea:

Alain vs Leon - Alain wins
Lance vs Diantha - Diantha wins
Cynthia vs Iris - Cynthia wins
Ash vs Steven - Ash wins

Semifinal:

Alain vs Diantha - Alain wins
Cynthia vs Ash - Ash wins

Final
Alain vs Ash - Ash wins (Greninja's revenge)

 

[Broseph08]

Makes me think, I would have preferred Ash v Diantha over Steven. At least Diantha has fought Ash twice before, and it makes sense for Pikachu to battle Gardevoir with that record against it, more so than another Metagross to beat.
In terms of progression, I assume they want to show Ash against the three strongest competitors, but Steven really doesn’t have any relevance to Ash’s past to make it a really epic contest, especially when the outcome is so predictable.

See I get this but I don't think anime narrative should be the only thing that counts here. One of the biggest things that is hyping this up so much is the existence of a tournament with game champions. Even if Ash and Steven don't have a connection, many fans do have one with Steven so the fact that Ash is battling Steven should intrinsically be special. That said, I am biased since Steven is my favorite here

 

[Broseph08]

Even if the intention was to have Ash battle the top 3. I can't wrap my head around Steven being #3. Seriously, what happened? Did they draw match-ups from a hat, then do the seeding?

What's wrong with Steven being #3? I get Leon and Cynthia being stronger but Diantha def felt weaker in XY and it's not a shocker that they had him beat Lance off-screen. Also, he does have the popularity advantage over many of the other trainers

 

[puddleths]

What's wrong with Steven being #3? I get Leon and Cynthia being stronger but Diantha def felt weaker in XY and it's not a shocker that they had him beat Lance off-screen. Also, he does have the popularity advantage over many of the other trainers

My issue is with the match-up. There's nothing particularly interesting about Ash battling Steven from a storytelling perspective. They've never battled before, I'm not sure Steven was the champion in the filler AG episode he appears in, and even in XY I don't remember them interacting.

I'm honestly wondering if they couldn't decide on the round 1 match-ups and settled on randomly drawing pairings.

 

[Konja7]

My issue is with the match-up. There's nothing particularly interesting about Ash battling Steven from a storytelling perspective. They've never battled before, I'm not sure Steven was the champion in the filler AG episode he appears in, and even in XY I don't remember them interacting.

I'm honestly wondering if they couldn't decide on the round 1 match-ups and settled on randomly drawing pairings.

The issue is that they want Ash to fight the Top 3 in the tournament.

Steven is in the #3, because it's easy to imagine that he is stronger than Iris and Diantha (and he has already defeated Alain).

 

[Sai]

They REALLY dropped the ball on this one..first of all, Ash not being the one to defeat Alain is absolutely insulting. And secondly, they're REALLY not gonna pit Iris against Lance? The other Dragon Master here? She's going up against Champion Cynthia and we know she might just lose to her so we can get Ash vs. Champion Cynthia. This was just a horrible setup.

Iris vs Cynthia is a throwback to their BW battle, and let's Haxorus show how far it came from an Axew. Iris battle is the perfect set-up even if she'll inevitably lose.

 

[LuxrayOfTheWild]

My issue is with the match-up. There's nothing particularly interesting about Ash battling Steven from a storytelling perspective. They've never battled before, I'm not sure Steven was the champion in the filler AG episode he appears in, and even in XY I don't remember them interacting.

I'm honestly wondering if they couldn't decide on the round 1 match-ups and settled on randomly drawing pairings.

For characters like Steven, Lance, and Diantha, Ash just doesn't have much of a reason to battle them and its just not an interesting matchup. He has no connection to them and there's no interesting narratives between them.

 

[puddleths]

For characters like Steven, Lance, and Diantha, Ash just doesn't have much of a reason to battle them and its just not an interesting matchup. He has no connection to them and there's no interesting narratives between them.

I wholeheartedly disagree with Lance. He's the Kanto champion, Ash worked alongside him during his G-Men missions, and he witnessed Lance catch the Red Gyarados that serves as his anime ace.

Diantha... he's at least battled before.

 

[Hidden Mew]

I was not expecting Ash vs Steven. That seemed a bit of a random choice, mainly due to how people were certain of Lance being one of his opponents. I kind of thought that Iris vs. Cynthia would happen, but in round two instead. I thought that they'd have her defeat Lance, show more of her off-screen progress and then inevitably lose to Cynthia. Although, I guess that wouldn't have worked with the single round elimination format of this tournament. I highly doubt that Iris will defeat Cynthia, but a part of me would almost be okay if she did. It would further glorify Iris, but I still don't know if I can see Ash defeating Cynthia in a believable/satisfying manner, especially with his current team. But since Ash already defeated Iris, I don't think that they'd go that far for them to have a rematch in the tournament.

 

[LuxrayOfTheWild]

I don't see the point of Iris defeating Champion Cynthia because whoever wins is gonna face Ash. We already had Ash vs. Iris in JN065 and he won. Plus, Champion Cynthia has been more hyped up as a likely opponent for Ash, ever since it was revealed she was participating in the PWC. It would be another wasted opportunity and only add to the disappointment. I am disappointed honestly that Iris is even facing her because of how likely it is she'll lose.

 

[Sai]

If Iris battled anyone else she would lose the second round. This makes more sense.

 

[Turbo]

Ash vs Steven is to me just the way for the writers Ash to battle against the Top 3

As for the rest, its a tournament and not a league, unless they confirm its random seeding like the leagues do,
they put the higher seeds against lower seeds like regular tournaments so stuff like Leon vs Cynthia (1vs2) won’t happen in the first round or Ash vs Alain first round (6vs8)

If it was normal playoff tournament Ash vs Leon would have happened first but they couldn't do that so they had to make the tournament matchups different

So of the matchups for each of the top 4 to go against someone from the bottom 4 this one probably isn't the absolute best as I would have even understood Ash vs Cynthia round one lol if it allowed stuff like Iris vs Lance and Steven vs Alain
But it also avoids Ash vs Leon and Ash vs Cynthia first round,
I'm am in the camp that it probably should of been Lance instead of Steven but I'm assuming the writers want the Top 3 idea and/or Leon vs Lance again to help cement those three that kept appearing when Ash would think about the Masters 8

So I don't think there was a perfect bracket as I think there's always a battle we would miss out on or people (like me) would feel weird about the seedings as Ash vs Alain first round would feel weird as they are bottom seeds meaning some matches that wouldn't happen under normal circumstances will occur here

 

[LuxrayOfTheWild]

If Iris battled anyone else she would lose the second round. This makes more sense.

Honestly I would have rather seen her face Lance, Steven, or Diantha so she had a stronger chance of winning. I was hoping she'd face someone she had a stronger chance of defeating, then lose to Leon to not only hype him up, but to make Ash more hyped to defeat him after probably promising Iris he'd defeat him.

 

[nickdt]

Like the funny thing is

If we look at the bracket
First half has Lance, Diantha, Leon and Alain
Second half has Cynthia, Iris, Ash and Steven.

So based on this we can already decipher the semi final match-ups.
Leon vs Diantha (Since there is no point for Lance to advance, as Leon already beat him before)
Ash vs Cynthia (Since there is no point for Iris to advance, as Ash already beat her before).

 

[ManUtd22]

I really really really loved the event when every alola fans cheering for Ash saying champion champions champion champions champions.

It is so lovely event

Rooting and cheering for Ash was the best event in this episode 112

 

[PokeFan2005]

How it will probably end up:

Alain vs Leon - Leon wins
Lance vs Diantha - Lance wins
Cynthia vs Iris - Cynthia wins
Ash vs Steven - Ash wins

Semifinal:

Leon vs Cynthia - Leon wins (because if he fights Lance it's too predictable)
Ash vs Lance - Ash wins

Final
Leon vs Ash - Ash wins

Crazy idea:

Alain vs Leon - Alain wins
Lance vs Diantha - Diantha wins
Cynthia vs Iris - Cynthia wins
Ash vs Steven - Ash wins

Semifinal:

Alain vs Diantha - Alain wins
Cynthia vs Ash - Ash wins

Final
Alain vs Ash - Ash wins (Greninja's revenge)

1 round:
1. Leon vs Alain
2. Lance vs Diantha
3. Cynthia vs Iris
4. Steven vs Ash
2 round:
Winner 1 vs Winner 2 and Winner 3 vs Winner 4

 

[Ghost Diplocaulus]

Ash vs Steven is certainly a surprise matchup... at least until I remembered that Steven was in the Top 3. I guess Ash potentially defeating the three strongest trainers in the world takes priority over narrative payoffs (a rematch with Alain) and even foreshadowing (Ash facing Lance is something that was being constantly teased, but then again, the anime has already used misdirection like this a lot in the past with Journeys being arguably the worst offender, so maybe we should've seen this one coming). I do think it's a shame that Ash won't be facing Alain after all, but I'm not too upset about it either, since beating Alain in a rematch is something that had its own fair share of problems anyway (such as Greninja being the one most fans would've wanted to do so, but if Greninja gets to return then so should other reserves, and that reduces the Journeys team's already sparse focus).

In light of how the matchups turned out, I can't say we can predict how they're gonna go seeing the amount of curveballs we've been thrown. That said, it's probably safe to say that Leon will beat Alain, Ash will beat Steven, and Cynthia will beat Iris: if Ash is facing the Top 3 first, then it logically follows that he faces the Top 2 in the next round. Plus, he and Iris already battled before, so there's not much of a point in a rematch. Leon also has to make it past Alain if Ash is gonna eventually face him. Lance vs Diantha is the only matchup that could go either way, but I'd personally prefer it if Diantha were the one to win, if only because Leon already fought and beat Lance, so it might be better if he defeated a different Champion before facing Ash.

All this predicting aside, at least we can appreciate the Pokemon being showcased, especially since several of them are species that haven't had meaningful screentime in years:

• Leon and Alain are using Rillaboom and Chesnaught respectively. Seeing the most neglected members of their respective Starter trios getting used by two of the strongest Pokemon Trainers in the world is one hell of a bone throw. Heck, I'm pretty sure Chesnaught didn't do anything of note back in XY besides being a POTD in a single filler episode, so this goes a long way in redeeming it. Now if only someone would pull out a surprise Typhlosion... Also, it's just sweet how Alain is using a Chesnaught likely in honor of Mairin's Chespie.
• Looks like Lance will be using a Hydreigon and Diantha an Aurorus. The only major role Hydreigon had in BW was under the command of an annoying idiot responsible for the worst League loss in history, so I'm really glad that it's finally getting spotlight with a trainer that's actually worthy and deserving of such a beast. Aurorus meanwhile is another old Pokemon being seen for the first time in a while, and I'm pretty sure it, like Chesnaught, only had one major episode in all of XY. Bonus: looks like the writers didn't forget about Lance's Dragonite after all XD
• Finally, we have Steven using a Cradily, a Fossil Pokemon that has been out of the spotlight even longer than Aurorus. Not to mention, I don't think we ever even saw one of these participate in a battle, so I'm really excited to see how it performs.

Guys, idk about anyone, but seeing all these Pokemon in action is a real treat. It makes me even sadder that these battles will likely be 3v3, because 6v6s would've allowed for even more neglected Pokemon getting potential shots at spotlight. That said, if the fights are 3v3, it seems like Lance is the only person whose lineup for the first round is confirmed (seems like he'll be using Dragonite, Hydreigon, and the Red Gyarados. And even that last one might not be the case, because if he beats Diantha he's still got a chance of using Gyarados in the second round): Leon is using Rillaboom and Charizard, Alain is using Chesnaught and Charizard, Diantha is using Aurorus and Gardevoir, Cynthia is using Milotic and Garchomp, Iris was only shown using Haxorus, and Ash will be using Gengar and Pikachu. Everyone's third Pokemon (and in Iris's case two other Pokemon) is a huge tossup, though I can imagine Diantha using either Tyrantrum or Goodra seeing how she's facing Lance.

 

[puddleths]

I would not be so quick to dismiss a potential Iris "upset." Staff loves her.

 

[isrrael120]

Ash vs Steven is certainly a surprise matchup... at least until I remembered that Steven was in the Top 3. I guess Ash potentially defeating the three strongest trainers in the world takes priority over narrative payoffs (a rematch with Alain) and even foreshadowing (Ash facing Lance is something that was being constantly teased, but then again, the anime has already used misdirection like this a lot in the past with Journeys being arguably the worst offender, so maybe we should've seen this one coming). I do think it's a shame that Ash won't be facing Alain after all, but I'm not too upset about it either, since beating Alain in a rematch is something that had its own fair share of problems anyway (such as Greninja being the one most fans would've wanted to do so, but if Greninja gets to return then so should other reserves, and that reduces the Journeys team's already sparse focus).

Doesn't sound very cool or interesting if I'm being honest, pretty random in my opinion the way you say it!