SPOILERS: Masters Eight Discussion/Speculation Thread

[Queen Cynthia]

WHAT A GLORIOUS DAY! My prayers have been answered! CYNTHIA has officially been revealed as the 2nd strongest trainer in the world, the vice-champion! Oh happy day!

Yes, of course, I realized that some day I needed to put up with the fact they'll keep Leon at the top. But I'm more or less fine with that because it's clear as day it's all just marketing, nothing else. Of course, they needed to promote SwSH at all costs when Journeys came out, so it's just a logical conclusion they wouldn't switch out Leon at the end. (I know Cynthia would still beat the hell out of Leon if the had a chance to battle.)

So, all in all, Cynthia ranking 2nd is the best thing we can ever expect from the show and proves she's the most powerful of all champions (leave out Leon whogot his status most likely because of marketing considerations as I just explained and in order to act as that last, final wall for Ash)

Cynthia, Your Majesty, I'll kneel down before you

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

I. Split Masters 8 in two groups and have round-robin, the best two go to semifinals (we have one precedent of this long ago in Jhoto)

I don't see this style of tournament being used. Episode 13 described that it's a classic three-round elimination tournament.

 

[Kurolegacy]

WHAT A GLORIOUS DAY! My prayers have been answered! CYNTHIA has officially been revealed as the 2nd strongest trainer in the world, the vice-champion! Oh happy day!

Yes, of course, I realized that some day I needed to put up with the fact they'll keep Leon at the top. But I'm more or less fine with that because it's clear as day it's all just marketing, nothing else. Of course, they needed to promote SwSH at all costs when Journeys came out, so it's just a logical conclusion they wouldn't switch out Leon at the end. (I know Cynthia would still beat the hell out of Leon if the had a chance to battle.)

So, all in all, Cynthia ranking 2nd is the best thing we can ever expect from the show and proves she's the most powerful of all champions (leave out Leon whogot his status most likely because of marketing considerations as I just explained and in order to act as that last, final wall for Ash)

Cynthia, Your Majesty, I'll kneel down before you

Worth noting that in addition to that, placing Cynthia at rank 2 also serves well in marketing since she’s also relevant currently due to BDSP.

 

[Queen Cynthia]

Before I start joining the speculation, do we actually know it'll be an elimination tournament? It might as well be possible that just like in the other classes match-ups in the Master Classcare randomly(?) chosen and participants climb up or down every once in a while.
I realized there's one problem: If the Master Class really was an elimination tournament that only takes place at certain times (once a year for examples) and is then over, how come Flint is longer part of it all of a sudden and Raihan can lose his rank by battling against somebody from the Hyper Class? Yes an elimination tournament might one option but as I just tried to explain it wouldn't quite make sense considering what happend to Flint and Raihan.

 

[Handy Man]

Before I start joining the speculation, do we actually know it'll be an elimination tournament? It might as well be possible that just like in the other classes match-ups in the Master Classcare randomly(?) chosen and participants climb up or down every once in a while.
I realized there's one problem: If the Master Class really was an elimination tournament that only takes place at certain times (once a year for examples) and is then over, how come Flint is longer part of it all of a sudden and Raihan can lose his rank by battling against somebody from the Hyper Class? Yes an elimination tournament might one option but as I just tried to explain it wouldn't quite make sense considering what happend to Flint and Raihan.

JN013 explains that the Masters Eight tournament is a single elimination tournament, with a quarter final round, semi final round, and final round. This means that, if Ash fights Leon in the finals, he’ll only fight three of the eight trainers in total. This is why the idea of Ash specifically fighting Alain, Cynthia, and Leon only is a popular one.

 

[PokeMasterLA]

I think it would be a mistake to bring Greninja to the fight, because then Kalos will be left unprotected.

I can see that as a reason for not wanting to bring Greninia back. There is 2 ways they can possibly go around that issue.

1. Lucario can temporarily take over protecting Kalos during Ash's match vs Alain. Since we saw that it was capable of fighting those roots with it's Aura Sphere at the end of JN108.

or

2. There's no more roots to cut down anymore, and Greninja returns back to Ash as a surprise in an upcoming episode. Maybe a brief flashback explaining how it took down all the roots, and Squishy/Zygarde thanking it for it's help protecting Kalos.

 

[Queen Cynthia]

JN013 explains that the Masters Eight tournament is a single elimination tournament, with a quarter final round, semi final round, and final round. This means that, if Ash fights Leon in the finals, he’ll only fight three of the eight trainers in total. This is why the idea of Ash specifically fighting Alain, Cynthia, and Leon only is a popular one.

I know. But in that case one thing just doesn't make sense. It's either JN013 or Flint and Raihan not being part of the Master Eight anymore.
Granted it's an elimination tournament, then we must assume it hasn't started until now (until the last participant has been decided, Ash in that case). So how come there has been a Master Class battle between Flint and Leon just recently (after which Flint obviously had to leave the Top 8) ? You could argue there was a big leap in time after that episode or that the Master Class tournament takes places frequently. In that case, however, how can it be possible that somebody from the Master Class has to face somebody from the lower Hyper Class and gets replaced by him? After all, a tournament is only between those who are allowed to participate while others usually do not have any influence.

Well, I guess there still seem to be some inconsistencies in the PWC rules.

 

[MimeyTheKeeper]

I don't see this style of tournament being used. Episode 13 described that it's a classic three-round elimination tournament.

JN013 explains that the Masters Eight tournament is a single elimination tournament, with a quarter final round, semi final round, and final round. This means that, if Ash fights Leon in the finals, he’ll only fight three of the eight trainers in total. This is why the idea of Ash specifically fighting Alain, Cynthia, and Leon only is a popular one.

You are both right, I rewatched - the elimination tournament is shown in graphics to illustrate. In English Dub, Goh just says that at the class matches season there is tournament where trainers in MC battle each other.

On the other hand, that leaves us with two problems:
1. It was stated numerous times how trainers could battle only inside class - and then we got this "promotion to Master Class" match with Raihan. Which I do not mind, I was proposing something similar, because it simply works better in story and is more understandable
2. Elimination tournament with this exact seeding (we did not have anything similar in previous leagues) almost begs what I was mentioning multiple times - ranking pairing...which unfortunately leaves us with 1-8,2-7,3-6,4-5 system and therefore the most logical opponent for Ash for quarter-finals is, well, Leon. And most desired pairing with Alain being currently ranked n. 6 makes almost the least sense.

So we will, see.

Nonetheless, I think nobody would be extremely happy with 3, only 3v3 battles.
If they want to stick to their guns with bracket, than it should be 6v6 to give Alain-Cynthia-Leon trio the best battles.

Hopefully they will reconsider one way or the other.

 

[Queen Cynthia]

Worth noting that in addition to that, placing Cynthia at rank 2 also serves well in marketing since she’s also relevant currently due to BDSP.

I admit you have a point here. However (as one of the greatest Cynthia fans) I just can't help feeling Cynthia ranking 2nd feels much much more earned considering she's been around for so long and due to her many returns and what she did in the Anime than Leon ranking 1st. The latter has been introduced recently and he always reminds me of another version of Tobias, a trainer coming out of nowhere and posing some form of special challenge to Ash.
Anyways, I didn't mean to start another discussion about who's better, Cynthia or Leon. I just wanted to point out how happy I am considering Cynthia's rank and that she surpasses all the other well-known champions.

On the other hand, that leaves us with two problems:
1. It was stated numerous times how trainers could battle only inside class - and then we got this "promotion to Master Class" match with Raihan. Which I do not mind, I was proposing something similar, because it simply works better in story and is more understandable

I just rewatched that part of JN103. Go said "At the end of a season these eight fight in a tournament...". So it's only one tournament per season. This means neither that recent match between Flint and Leon nor Raihan battling Ash seem to make any sense.
I love the idea of the PWC and I'm starting to get really hyped. That's why I absolutely want the rules to make sense, you know?

 

[Beatsy Ray]

He’s probs fighting Alain, Cynthia and Leon then. I’m fairly confident that they’ll be at least 3v3 now, cause they can cram that into a single ep with some prior buildup. Otherwise just make them 2 parters like Bea. Imo Leon is surely a full battle, Cynthia is likely as well but I can see Alain as another 3v3

For aces I’m guessing Greninja will return against Alain and we’ll see the full transformation again. Then Mega Lucario for Cynthia and then Pikachu (with Z move or gmax) for Leon. I’d like Infernape for Cynthia instead but I’m not expecting it rn

Greninja and Infernape are the two Ash mons that got dedicated episodes, so I think there's a decent chance both will return. My prediction/hope for gimmicks are Incineroar and Greninja for Alain (Z move + AshGren), Gengar for Cynthia (Gmax), and Lucario for Leon (Mega).

If Paul wasn't in the PWC the only explanation better be because he chose to become a Frontier Brain which would tie in with his rematch against Brandon,any other reason is UNACCEPTABLE!!

Game Freak all but decanonized the Battle Frontier, so I doubt that's it. I don't think he was competing though.

 

[puddleths]

I just rewatched that part of JN103. Go said "At the end of a season these eight fight in a tournament...". So it's only one tournament per season. This means neither that recent match between Flint and Leon nor Raihan battling Ash seem to make any sense.
I love the idea of the PWC and I'm starting to get really hyped. That's why I absolutely want the rules to make sense, you know?

The tournament is a separate event. Outside of it, the Masters 8 seem to battle each other to determine their ranking, and the #8 has to ward off any #9 Ultra Class challengers until the tournament cut off.

I wouldn't get too caught up in what the tournament structure is. Sure, they established something back at the start of the series, but those rules and regulations are as fluid as the stroke of a pen. Just look at all the posts before yesterday's episode about how trainers from different classes could not battle each other.

 

[-PokemonBattleFanatic-]

Game Freak all but decanonized the Battle Frontier, so I doubt that's it. I don't think he was competing though.

Then it's a big middle finger to the loyal Paul fans out there like myself that waited for 10+ years of his long overdue return just to give him the Gary Oak treatment and be only a helping hand for Ash.

If Paul is still an active trainer with the goal of becoming the strongest he can be and rising to the top this was not the way to go and I just find it to be very lazy writing if this is what's likely to happen.

 

[Rath]

Not sure if anyone has brought this up yet or not, but the referee said that Ash and Raihan's battle used the same rules as the Masters Tournament.

Spoiler

I.E. 3v3, and only one of Dynamax, Mega Evolution, or a Z-Move.

 

[Handy Man]

Not sure if anyone has brought this up yet or not, but the referee said that Ash and Raihan's battle used the same rules as the Masters Tournament.

Spoiler

I.E. 3v3, and only one of Dynamax, Mega Evolution, or a Z-Move.

Interesting, I didn't notice that detail. I hope this means that we could get all of the Masters Eight battles on screen, since all of them being 3v3 would give enough time to showcase every battle if they wanted to. Maybe the finals of Ash vs. Leon could be an exception and be a 6v6.

 

[Articfoxgamez]

Not sure if anyone has brought this up yet or not, but the referee said that Ash and Raihan's battle used the same rules as the Masters Tournament.

Spoiler

I.E. 3v3, and only one of Dynamax, Mega Evolution, or a Z-Move.

so what this is telling me is... Someone from the however many more regions pokemon will have before its ended that will undoubtably also have burst mechanics can come into the tournament and just use it endlessesly

 

[Nicolas721]

I don't think people should bank to much on Lance vs Iris, as it would lead to either of them having a predictable battle with Leon. I think either that the winner battles Ash or that Iris battles someone else. I know it sounds like a too good opportunity to pass up but the anime is no stranger to that (see Gary in Kanto or Virgil in Unova), and this torunament will clearly not be as character-focused as the Alola one. Iris getting this far is enough of an amazing accomplishment, specially for someone who started taking battles seriously later than Ash.

 

[Sai]

Not sure if anyone has brought this up yet or not, but the referee said that Ash and Raihan's battle used the same rules as the Masters Tournament.

Spoiler

I.E. 3v3, and only one of Dynamax, Mega Evolution, or a Z-Move.

It seemed like he was just referring to this particular match. The rules were about only using one of Mega Evolution or Gigantamax

 

[Rath]

It seemed like he was just referring to this particular match. The rules were about only using one of Mega Evolution or Gigantamax

The 3v3 thing was clearly referred to as part of the Masters Tournament rules.

 

[Queen Cynthia]

The tournament is a separate event. Outside of it, the Masters 8 seem to battle each other to determine their ranking, and the #8 has to ward off any #9 Ultra Class challengers until the tournament cut off.

I wouldn't get too caught up in what the tournament structure is. Sure, they established something back at the start of the series, but those rules and regulations are as fluid as the stroke of a pen. Just look at all the posts before yesterday's episode about how trainers from different classes could not battle each other.

Funny, that's exactly what I wanted to post right now after thinking about it for one whole evening. (Yeah, I admit I really got hyped and caught up in that )
There has to be a "normal" Masters Eight during the season when the members compete for their respective ranks. And it must also be possible for them to drop out of that class (see Flint and Raihan). Then, at the end of the season, there is that tournament exclusive to the Masters Eight where the monarch is determined. In my eyes this is the only theory that can explain what we've seen so far.


I almost forgot to share my thoughts about the other competitors in the Masters Eight. So, let me do this now:

Iris:
Came as a total surprise to me because I think she's already got her fair share of screentime. I guess she'll be one of the candidates to lose in they first round (against Cynthia? That would make sense considering her admiration for Cynthia in BW). Still, I definitely would have preferred Paul over Iris.

Alain:
Very good choice! Considering he was one of Ash's toughest rivals and a highly skilled trainer, he being part of the Masters Eight as the only non-champion totally makes sense.

Diantha:
Obviously she's in there because she's the champion of Kalos. But I never really made up my mind what to think of her during XYZ. So, I'm kind of neutral when it comes to Diantha. Let's see who she'll be facing.

Lance:
Goes without saying that the great Lance is part of the Masters Eight! To me he's the second most powerful and impressive champion after HER.

Steven:
Also an obvious and good choice! What caught me by surprise is that he ranks higher than Lance. Although I personally prefer Lance over Steven, I'm totally fine with Steven ranking higher. Lance vs. Steven would be an epic battle for sure!

Paul (not being a member):
That was probably the biggest surprise. Like many other fans, I could have bet Paul would be in there. Well, the writers decided against him and now it remains to be seen how they'll develop his character when he returns. I just hope we won't learn Paul has thrown in the towel and quitted his career as a Pokemon trainer. I'm really excited to learn what happened to him.

 

[Konja7]

The 3v3 thing was clearly referred to as part of the Masters Tournament rules.

This is translated from Japanese. I think the way this part is read could be confusing.