Brock is nothing more than a perv.
Thank you, their feelings are no longer hurt
efinitely the more "battle-orientated" Coordinator of the show. Blaziken was very very strong and without a doubt her powerhouse. Skitty was just kinda...meh. Haven't really seen anything out of Venusaur since she evolved, though she beat Harley's Cacturne and Cacturne/Banette with Beautfly's help, although I loved her pre-evolution she hardly battled and beating Harley isn't anything super impressive as something like beating Drew. Glaceon, I'd put on a middle tier. Like around the power-level of Dawn's Quilava. Wartortle beat Harley's Pokemon and took down a Flygon also beat a Scizor, he was definitely a strong Pokemon in his own right. Munchlax was strong *per say* we didn't really see May use him much at all however, his only notable win was with Eevee against Wigglytuff and Cacturne, shame since he was like my favorite of all of May's Pokemon. Beautifly was surely strong when it came to Contest battling, it did beat Zoey's Glameow. 
I agree, Starmie might have been more impressive had we seen it battle more and it's true Starmie are very strong Pokemon in-game with very expansive movesets. Though based on what we saw of Starmie, it wasn't anything impressive. I'm not doubting that it might have been strong, but still we never saw its skills and we can only base its strength off what we saw.
I'd say without a doubt that Politoed, Corsola, and Staryu were the strongest of Misty's traveling team, mainly because those were the main ones she relied on.
Well, true, Dragonite did have a ridiculous disadvantage to Ice. But, Dragonite for the most part was able to sponge those Ice-type attacks. I agree, there's definitely more to type advantage and disadvantage, but I don't think Misty's Gyarados would be able to resistant Electric-type moves. So far the only Pokemon in the whole show who can straight up resistant disadvantages or endure them have been Dragons, like Drayden's Druddigon, Dragonite, and Cynthia's Garchomp.
True, true. Strategy can make the difference in a battle no doubt and Ash is notorious for winning with disadvantages. Clair's Gyarados had a strategy to counter Electric moves, however Pikachu was able to break through the Dragon Breath defense and win. While it is true, Misty *could* come up with an Electric neutralizing strategy, like Cress' Panpour did for Pikachu, if Gyarados got tagged by an Electric-type move I don't think it would be stay in the battle for too longer.
Oh, I see, so I was half right. She lost to Sakura's Espeon in Chronicles and won against it in Johto.
Oh, crap, I meant Dorian. ^^;;
Yep, I remember Dorian, the battle was unresolved and I guess could be counted as a tie. Yeah, I almost forgot about Harrison, the trainer Misty's Corsola beat in the Whirlcup. I wouldn't necessarily call him anything powerful, but he seemed decently powered imo. Poliwhirl beating the Poliwrath trainer was definitely one of her better battles. Yeah, the first half was pretty even, Poliwhirl was curbstomped by Gyarados but Corsola defeated it and was defeated by Chinchou.
I don't think that's it. I just think it's because for virtually all of her run, Misty was portrayed as being an average trainer. Although I like her, she didn't battle many notable trainer aside from Trinity or have a very convincing win record or beat anyone super impressive. She only ever beat Sakura who was a beginner, Marina(while controlling a wild Golduck), Georgio, and, like you said, Andreas the Poliwrath trainer through her own merits. Though she did beat Kingler and Lickitung thanks to Psyduck's headache-spawned Confusions,
Except we don't know whether or not Starmie actually knows those moves, which is why I said, "based on what we saw of Starmie." Starmie only ever beat Ash's fairly green Butterfree and was going to be defeated by Pidgeotto until TR interrupted. Starmie also beat a Weepinbell owned by an inexperienced kid, but was later beaten by Giselle's Graveler easily. Starmie beat a wild Oddish with Water Gun. That's not impressive and from the info we have Starmie wasn't anything that shined brightly.
Except from what we do know and how Gyarados was portrayed we can easily tell.
I don't think Gyarados would last long against Electricity period since, like I said before, every Gym Leader Gyarados has been knocked out by a few Electric moves. Wake's was by a Volt Tackle from Pikachu and then Clair's, who I'm sure has a superior Gyarados to Misty and Wake's, was by two Thunderbolts.
I'll have to rewatch this ep again, I haven't seen it in a while XP I think Gyarados' raging and the fact it was the main problem of the episode were its reasons for not being defeated by the electricity.
Well, I'm not doubting Gyarados is strong, Clair's Gyarados wasn't able to subdue Pikachu. Clair is the strongest Gym Leader of Johto in the anime, Misty I'm certain, is not the strongest Gym Leader of Kanto. Overall, while it is strong and had a viable moveset, I don't think it's an accurate comparison to something like Dragonite or Blaziken.
Well these things *could* happen, but we never saw anything impressive tbh from any of Misty's Pokemon in that regard.
....I was never judging Misty on how many evolved Pokemon she has, we know evolution doesn't mean everything in this show.
And I never made any comments about Brock, he battled less than Misty during their run together I agree.
When did Misty show any really amazing tactics in battle? For most of those battles I rewatched, it was nothing but attack and attacking, in fact I'm pretty sure that's how most OS-era battles were written.
I don't really deal in on absolutes, Misty's mission in life is focused more on battles than Contest that's true though.
Gyarados is strong, Corsola, Politoed, and Staryu were nicely powered but nothing extraordinary at all in battle that makes them stand out. Saying Starmie and Psyduck have massive potential is like me saying Axew & Stunfisk but it doesn't change the fact they're still not anything super duper impressive in battle, at least Psyduck isn't without a headache.
Dawn and May placed highly in their Grand Festival, Dawn won the Whirlcup which brought trainers from all over the world, Iris got 99 wins and won the Club Battle, Dawn was a runner-up in the Tag Battle Tourney, May managed to make it to the semis in the Kanto GF. All trainers have "notable achievements" for young ages, Misty's aren't any special.
The movie race? A race. The Princess Tournament? I honestly can't say that tournament was anything impressive. Jessie made it to the finals and there were no notable trainers besides her and Misty, on top of that Misty was pretty much solely using Ash and Brock's Pokemon. Who are these "older and more experienced" trainers Misty defeated? I only remember beating Sakura(a beginner trainer), Georgio(who was around her age), Marina(around her age and while controlling a wild Golduck), Jessie(everyone beats her she's the bad guy), the Weepinbell kid in early Kanto, Harrison's Qwilfish.(He was a kid too) Honestly, has Misty ever beaten any impressive, notable trainers? I mean not one-shot COTDs, I mean something akin to Stephan, Drew, Nando, or heck even Kenny or Khoury or Lyra.
She used Rapin Spin to free Staryu, true. But she never used any strategy against Dorian, I just watched the battle and it was pretty much all direct attacking and attacking. Same thing with Trinity, Hyper Beam blasted through Poliwhirl's Bubble and then Corsola managed to dodge it and launch a Spike Cannon from underwater that knocked it out. She utilized Recover, which isn't a strategy so much it is just a move against Harrison and Dorian.
I never thought Misty was close to Ash's skill level tbh. Togepi VS. Pikachu was a joke, Chikorita defeated Staryu despite being at a higher level according to Misty, and Poliwhirl was defeated by Bulbasaur. Poliwhirl's win over Totodile was not impressive in the slightest, Poliwhirl just straight up blasted Totodile with Bubble and defeated it with ease, there was no strategy.
Again, we're assuming things and not basing Misty's strength on what we know. Misty was never something impressive or amazing. She was treated as a pretty average trainer in the show overall. Has she ever battled against a trainer like Drayden, Maylene, or Skyla? Even May battled Brock and beat him with her newly hatched Eevee.
Again, that's why I said "what we saw of Starmie" we can't base Starmie's strength off assumptions, but we can from what we saw of the Pokemon. For the most part, Starmie wasn't too impressive.
I haven't seen "Cerulean Blues" in a long while, but there's nothing in those other two episode/special that makes me think Gyarados is highly resistant. It was defeated easily along with every other Pokemon in the Mastermind of Mirage Pokemon Special and in Togepi Mirage it didn't do anything but blast a Shedinja with Flamethrower and defeat it with one move. The only reason this happened was because of Shedinja having very pitiful stamina.
No, not quite. Blaziken battled Sceptile to a draw, managed to take on Drew's very strong Absol, beat a Venusaur, etc. That in itself says a lot about Blaziken, though we never it battle much in its fully-evolved forms it has won and battled hard for May many times. We had the whole Junior Cup telling us how very powerful Iris' Dragonite was and it tossed Mamoswine like nothing and one-shotted a Beartic, went up against Legendary Pokemon, etc. Misty's Gyarados only ever battled that Shedinja and those three Tentacruel owned by those TR-look-a-likes.
And "willpower" is something we see from every single trainer in this show. How many times have we seen Iris, May, Dawn, or Ash brought back from the brink of defeat by the magic of believing in their Pokemon? I don't see how Misty's case is special. Before you said how Misty could come up with this strategy to counter electricity or could do this certain strategy, but from what we saw of Misty and how she was treated along with her Pokemon in Johto, nothing makes me think Misty would do that. Again, we're assuming things rather than basing them off what we know and saw of Misty.
Oh.
So, we're just suppose to not count Misty's battles just because they weren't written up to scratch as future battles?
Actually, Ash used strategy quite a few times in his battle. Like battling Pryce and using the ice battle field to his advantage, having Cyndaquil use Flamethrower from above to break past Scyther's Swords Dance defense, or defeating Whitney's Miltank with his plan of using water, holes, and electricity. Misty has never done anything of that value in her battles.
Seal was a Team Rocket battle, right? Attacking Bulbasaur head-on with Bubble while its charging is most definitely not a strategy as much it is just attacking. Again, Misty had Staryu use Rapid Spin and spin out of the Whirlpool. I would have to rewatch the later two battles since i haven't seen either in a long while.
This is true, but in most of her battles Misty was portrayed as a pretty average trainer.
Honestly, Misty hardly used her Pokemon during her run, outside of TR. Goldeen only battled once against Dorian and was promptly KOed in short time. Togepi never battled, except against Pikachu. Staryu was hardly used, only battled Marina's Tentacruel,(Sorry, I don't count movies or specials since Mastermind most certainly is not canon)Chikorita, and Buttefree. Corsola only battled the Remoraid trainer(, Harrison the Qwilfish trainer, Dorian's Mantine, Trinity, and Shedinja. Psyduck won every battle by means of Confusion, Jessie, Ash, etc. Poliwhirl battled Bulbasaur, Trinity's Gyarados, Sakura's sister's Vaporeon, and Andreas.
Not really given she hardly did anything battle wise and her win-to-lose record wasn't very impressive at all.
Again, with the assumptions. Iris' Axew could become a Haxorus, Dawn's Quilava could be a Typlosion, May's Wartortle could be a Blastoise.
And we never got anything like that from any of Misty's Pokemon. Piplup turned into a powerhouse, Eevee wasn't strong at the beginning but ended up evolving into a Glaceon that really gave Piplup a hard time and clearly was very well-trained for Contest, it also beat Brock's much more experience Marshtomp. Gible was impressive, managing to go against Barry's Empoleon while tired after recently being caught and KOing two of Conway's Pokemon with Draco Meteor, the strongest Special Dragon move is impressive. We never saw anything in that vain with Misty.
I'm not trying to debate the value of her achievements, but collecting five ribbons and entering an important tournament is far more impressive than placing highly in the WhirlCup, a tournament that pretty much featured a bunch of no-name filler character. Achieving 99 straight wins when you technically aren't a trainer yet or being offered the position of being a Dragon Gym Leader by the strongest in Unova is leagues more impressive. Dawn and May just have a very fast learning curve and Iris was just portrayed as a prodigy just like she was in the game where all Elite Four members/Champions were portrayed as being in a league of their own, often experts from a young age. Misty was treated as a pretty average trainer her whole run.
How does this reflect Misty's battle skills?
Yeah, the only reason Jessie made it to the finals in the first place was because she and Misty were the only important trainers, the rest of the tourney was a bunch of no-names. Even if I saw the Princess Tournament as anything impressive, which I really don't, Misty only made it far using Pokemon that weren't her own.
Iris was able to use Snivy and Emmy's Druddigon, Ash has used Dawn's Piplup and Buizel well, Jessie used Croagunk to KO a Scizor, nothing about that makes me see Misty as an exceptional trainer. The Golduck was wild, that's the key thing. Barely scraping by with wins against run-of-the-mill trainers like Marina and Jessie isn't anything to write home about.
Yeah, but Misty never showed any amazing usage of her Pokemon and even then they were all pretty average.
A very powerful wild Golduck that straight up overpowered Psyduck and Starmie with head-on Psyduck and Water attacks.
Being Champion of a fishing competition won't require you to have wide knowledge about Water-type Pokémon since it was Seaking he was fishing for.
That's like saying that just because a person IRL is really good at fishing he must also have a wide knowledge of all kind of fishes or creatures in the sea, when all he really needs to know is how to fish. It's like saying that just because James is a scooping Master he knows a lot about different kind Water-types, which he doesn't.
Andreas specified on catchin Seaking, nothing else for all we know. He battled just like a regular Trainer, which Misty also is. There was really nothing about him that made him stick out as stronger than a regular Trainer.
Uh, no, not exactly. That's why I said for the most part, Starmie wasn't too impressive.from what we saw of it. Beating an Oddish is not impressive, being beaten by a Graveler and rather inexperienced Pidgeotto is not impressive. Grotle and Bulbasaur both showed to be somewhat good battler before evolutions, Turtwig being very strong and Bulbasaur being somewhat good. We saw neither from any of Starmie's battles.
You do know that no Pokemon was knocked out from that attack? And the special isn't even canon to the show either? Even then I don't see how surviving that attack says anything about Gyarados' endurance when every other Pokemon survived for the sake of the plot as well. I haven't seen the Cerulean Blues episode in a while, but surviving Poison Stings from three extremely incompetent trainers is not impressive and doesn't make me think Misty's Gyarados in any way has better endurance than any other Gyarados in this show.
The only reason that happened was because the others didn't know that Shedinja's Wonder Guard ability could be bypassed by super effective moves, otherwise Swellow or Combusken would have sent that Bug into oblivion a long time ago.
Yes, it was, at least imo. Gyarados beats three pathetic Tentacruel and a Shedinja? Combusken beats an Absol, Venusaur, Grumpig, Vibrava, and ties against Ash's Sceptile for examples. Those three TR-look-a-likes are most certainly not skilled trainers. Whether or not you think Combusken's wins were DEM doesn't erase the fact that it showed to be a reliable and strong Pokemon many times.
I never said that, I said that Dragonite is strong enough to single handily KO two Ice-types and try to take on Legendaries
And we're going right back to the same thing before
Beating three weak Tentacruel and a Shedinja is not impressive. That's like saying Pikachu or Chimchar knocking out multiple TR Pokemon on their own is impressive.Psyduck's win's over Lickitung can be counted since it was a formal battle, yes. But, honestly, taking those into consideration Misty was still pretty average her whole run.
I'm sorry, but Trinity is not more skilled than Drew and surely isn't more skilled than the strongest Unova Gym Leader. Again, it feels like you're grasping for straws if you're using Molly's dreamed up fake Mantine as an indicator that Misty's strong when every Pokemon was knocked out by her dreamed up Pokemon and Staryu most likely had it not cut away from the battle.
We never really got much canon-stated evidence or scenes where we see Misty training for me to buy she's been training off-screen her whole run. In BW we have scenes of Ash and Iris training their Pokemon regularly at the beginning or ending of episodes and canon-stated evidence theres been offscreen training. I can't buy Misty training if we don't actually see her doing so regularly and get a mention of it.
Iris' Axew and Ash's Scraggy have huge potential just waiting to be brought on the surface too.
Piplup won by an extremely small margin, Misty losing to green trainers like Sakura is just worse.
Misty raised Togepi into a strong Togetic? XD Really? The thing was a paper weight its entire Johto run pretty much and hardly did much in Kanto either, the only training scene I remember was the Headbutt thing in the Orange Islands and that lead no wehre. Poliwag's evolution into Politoed seemed more like advertisement for Gold & Silver, regardless I can buy it as a good job at raising a Pokemon. Well, I can buy that Staryu was one of the strongest of Misty's team.
Ash and May, yes. Misty no, she was portrayed average.
Actually, I just checked Bulbapedia. Misty came in the Top 16 in the Whirlcup, she only beat Ash because of Psyduck's Confusion too. Poliwhirl defeating a Magikarp in the Preliminary rounds is not impressive. Her only technical non-luck win was against Harrison in a 1 on 1 battle.
Except she was, Misty's win-record and skills were average her whole run in comparison to others like May, Dawn, and Iris especially. The former two were portrayed as being fast growing trainers and the latter a prodigy.
Yes, Grand Festivals require five ribbons they just don't let any street trainer in like the Whirlcup. Grabbing 99 straight wins while you're 7 or 8 and not officially a trainer and only being brought to your knees by a Dragon Master? Yes.
Again, all Water-types in this shows, sans, Psyduck have been shown to be good swimmers. It would be a real stepping stone for Misty's training if she had trained her Psyduck to actually swim.
Jessie was the runner-up, that says it all.
Club Battles have an array of trainers who we know something about and even the one-shots have names and a bit of character explanations, the Princess Tournament did not have that.
I'm sorry, but Misty win record is mediocre and nothing about her skills from me rewatching old episodes makes me see her as highly talented.
The whole battle was literally a one-hit KO fest. Pedestrian trainers like Marina are not on par with likes of Zoey.
I'm sorry, but Misty showed zero skill in that battle. She just ordered Hyper Beam and overpowered Starmie's Light Screen and won via 1-hit KO.
Well, I can believe he's one of the strongest Misty ever faced.
Harrison was not strong. Brock said he knew a lot about Corsola, not all Water-types.
He did beat Ash's Totodile while battling underwater. Misty's Goldeen was beaten as well and Corsola beat Mantine and the battle was left unresolved with no official winner.
Unstoppable because of Wonder Guard? Because I'm sure that if any trainer knew about it they would have KOed Shedinja in little time. Georgio beat Casey's least experienced Pokemon, Elekid. That doesn't scream strong to me.
Stephan is not average, his Sawk won the whole Clubsplosion and went through Bianca's strongest Emboar, Cilan's Pansage, and Edmond's Seismitoad like butter. Then went onto beat Montogomery, last year's champion's Throh, this is the same Pokemon that made quick work of Iris' Excadrill. Sawk also was gonna knock out Krookodile had not Leavanny's Swarm powered him up to wear down Sawk. Stephan is easily stronger than anything Misty has ever battled her whole run, Trinity is the strongest Misty ever faced imo.
Solar Beam was not luck, Ash used it from the start and Bulbasaur, unlike Pokemon in DP and BW, had a very believable charge time for the attack. Togepi beating Pikachu via emotion is not the power of a skilled trainer. Pikachu would have smashed Togepi if he didn't have a brotherly attachment to it.
I never said there was strategy, just like their was zero on Misty's part either. Except with Ash using Chikorita's Vine Whip the way he did against Staryu.
))Iris was shown as being a prodigy trainer from a young age and we had 2 episodes screaming that in our faces, Misty was not. Being recognized as decent trainer by Filler OCs is not impressive.
Being interested in someone you just met >>>>> Being interested in someone you've known since you were a baby.
Beating Jessie and filler OCs is not the hallmark of a powerful trainer, let alone with Psyduck's confusion.
I don't count those wins for Ash, Max, Jessie, or Iris controlling other's Pokemon, so I certainly don't count Misty's.
Princess Tournament, Whirl Cup Top 16, and winning a Seaking competition, keep in mind Andreas was the FISHING champ not the Battling champ. Definitely not impressive or in league with Dawn especially who was the runner-up of her first GF ever.
Misty controlling her Gyarados is not more special than Ash doing the same for Charizard, Iris with Dragonite, or Dawn with Mamoswine since they had an arc. of episodes to do so especially.
Okay let's see Misty's achievements......she made it to the Top 16 in the Whirlcup and....um....she won the Princess Tournament with Pokemon that weren't hers as well Psyduck's headache Psychic powers and um....she beat a fishing champion.
Eevee's win was not a "Deus Ex Machina".
May was made out to be a trainer with a fast learning curve, Iris was made out to be a prodigy. Misty was made out to be average. Trinity & Ash are the only impressive trainers she ever battled against.
Iris went up against Stephan, Drayden, and Ash, she beat Stephan and Ash and tied against Haxorus. She actually beat Ash in a non-sketchy way.(No Psyduck headaches) Dawn was the runner-up in her first GF ever and beat May and came close to beating Zoey. Misty never was made out to be little more than average her whole run.
Misty never showed huge improvement, May did and Dawn showed great improvement. Misty was average however in nearly all her battles.
True, true XD
