Mafia Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Mafia - Endgame (Looking Stupid Joker!)

[HumanDawn]

neopest has been mentioned has having a fairly high post count, but it's a bit inflated when a lot of those early posts were not even super game relevant beyond self-meta, which is not useful.

------

The DawningWinds vote here is fine, there's some sense of progression in the read.

This is about Kaiveran, but it doesn't really take a stance about anything. It's more of an aside than any notable reaction to the former's vote on Reiji.

This post is weird to me when combined with a later one. It seems like neopest even early on was buttering up leetic a bit and maybe testing the waters on what to do in-thread by seeing what leetic was thinking (as leetic was probably the top town read at this point). In fact, unless I missed it, I don't remember if neopest ever actually acknowledged leetic's answer to this question at all?

This post is decent, continues the DawningWinds rationale. Posted it to be fair in not cutting out the good content.

------

This is where I think things get suspicious. I don't see where the HumanDawn case came from. I don't remember seeing any suspicion on HD from neopest before this, and they say that the interactions with leetic don't move the needle, but I don't know what that means? To me, that sounds like it doesn't affect their read, but then they go on to eventually vote Human for his interactions with TheCapsFan, which happened very suddenly with the tinfoil theory that they could be a scumteam. And again with kind of moving off of leetic's thoughts on the subject.

The move away from DawningWinds also has pretty vague reasoning. I just don't think this is a solid vote.

-----

Calls out people who have not been involved in thread "drama" as potential mafia holding back and watching town implode, but was also not involved in the drama herself either. It's a bit hypocritical, and I think in general that neopest has presented as if she's given more content in the game than has actually happened, personally.


This is weak; there was no indication before this that neopest no longer felt confident in a vote on Human and she did not even explain why that read changed here. Also don't understand why people need to be around to vote them.

After this, there is no indication of who else neopest may vote for.

-------

Also, I haven't read Soulmaster's recent posts yet so I gotta do that before I decide if neopest or Soulmaster is a better vote IMO right now.

The neopest case here... not feeling it, I believe I have already explained my opinion on the slot's voting earlier.

Okay, read it now. Soulmaster at least went back through posts to try to explain their vote on Kaiveran. It's not an airtight case by any means, but he does mention hiding behind site cultures and some other thoughts that clarify that this isn't an inactivity vote.

Soulmaster seems to often give up when mafia and confronted, and it tends to happen early. That he's putting in more effort right now and sticking to his guns about Kaiveran is a small meta point in his favor.

Maybe I'm being naive, but I'm willing to give this a try, and I've been thinking about it ever since I answered who I disagree with most in the game last night.

UNVOTE: Soulmaster
VOTE: neopest

"sticking to his guns about Kaiveran"

SM: "I am sticking with my vote on Kai. There was something about all of the posts that I (apparently) can't really explain that put me off"

damn, what a solid stance to take :M

FTR I'm not against pressure on neopest but I don't think it's good enough to be used as an excuse to pressure them over at this point.

 

[DawningWinds]

Ngl, these posts are long so I'm pretty much just skimming most of what I missed.

But leetic you are wrong. There is nothing hedgey about my statement there. The flow of the thread was that HD showed up, was kind of scummy, I voted there to pressure him. You asked me why my vote was still on there, I said I saw no reason to change it at that current point in time which was true. You are misrepresenting it as me saying I solely voted HD because no one else was around which was not the case. I said there might be people scummier than HD but I see no reason to pressure them with a vote if they are not in the thread or playing the game and at the time I placed my vote HD very much was. It's simple town tactics.

It's been pointed out by a few people that you didn't really explain why you though HD was scummy, or why he stopped being scummy. Please do so.

As for leetic misrepping? I don't know I agree. Leetic took the post to mean... basically the same thing I did. With the explanation I can see how it meant what you say it means, but it's not very clear from the initial post.

 

[HumanDawn]

Also my reads should be obvious from reading the thread. I'm feeling good about leetic and Reiji town (Reiji maybe a bit less so, but still strongly), DawningWind light town now after reviewing their posts and liking their reads list and I think I'm coming around to a HD town world because he does seem different from the games I've seen him wolf in. For a POE it's Kai/FA/SM/Caps and from those four I think Kai and FA are the scummiest.

wait what games did we player together in again?

Vote: FinalArcadia

Can call this an "OMGUS" but I have a hard time seeing this come from a good place. People have tried to engage with them multiple times and they have pretty much brushed most of it off as well as misrepresented me. I actually wouldn't mind hearing someone else's thoughts on their "case" just to get a sanity check, but I'm coming around to this just being scum. Even from our first interaction it did not seem like they were open to interacting with me in a way that suggests that they were trying to solve my alignment and this is apparent with the progression of me pointing out some issues I had with their first post and them immediately attempting to shade me/push on me without even trying to see where I was coming from. I don't know how experienced FA is at the scum role, but this is something I see a lot of novice wolves do because it's easy.

Hmm... I'm not getting malicious vibes from this, I can understand why you'd be thrown off. My biggest issue with FinalArcadia's vote is that she ended up unvoting Soulmaster for meh reasoning and voted you for meh reasoning. If Soulmaster flips Town I would actually get a bit paranoid on FA solely because her weak reasoning would make sense from a scum perspective to get off a Town wagon and also simultaneously set up the potential next mislynch target!

 

[FinalArcadia]

"sticking to his guns about Kaiveran"

SM: "I am sticking with my vote on Kai. There was something about all of the posts that I (apparently) can't really explain that put me off"

damn, what a solid stance to take :M

From what I remember, Soulmaster usually clams up or just gives up when he's mafia and is in trouble. He didn't really do that here and instead actually went back to Kaiveran's posts to provide reasoning for the vote. Retroactive, yes, but it's a higher effort post than pretty much anything else up to this point from Soulmaster. I think there's an actual attempt being made here.

 

[HumanDawn]

Hm, good question. HD is always hard to read for me, but I think his early game posts followed together more logically and I think the Awaaaaaaards post essentially being unprompted GTH reads looks good in hindsight from a content perspective. His later posts yesterday seem more reactionary, he would post something and then read something a few posts down which answered his question, so a lot of those posts don't contribute as much IMO.

NAI. HD gonna HD, he don’t give a shit about what people think.

i... think that happened like, once with my Soulmaster read changing when i read the last few pages when i answered you

I also actually do give a shit about what people think about me... sometimes :>.

 

[DawningWinds]

Vote: FinalArcadia

Can call this an "OMGUS" but I have a hard time seeing this come from a good place. People have tried to engage with them multiple times and they have pretty much brushed most of it off as well as misrepresented me. I actually wouldn't mind hearing someone else's thoughts on their "case" just to get a sanity check, but I'm coming around to this just being scum. Even from our first interaction it did not seem like they were open to interacting with me in a way that suggests that they were trying to solve my alignment and this is apparent with the progression of me pointing out some issues I had with their first post and them immediately attempting to shade me/push on me without even trying to see where I was coming from. I don't know how experienced FA is at the scum role, but this is something I see a lot of novice wolves do because it's easy.

I definitely see OMGUS here but I'll let it slide unless someone who's played with you confirms it's not actually something you do frequently as town like you said.

As for your actual argument. I do believe FA made some good point, which I quoted in I think my last post, but I do not agree with everything FA said. Regardless. I think her case is fairly decent. The argument against you doesn't look at all bad faith to me. I don't really get the vibes that she's not open to interacting with you from early D1, and I don't see her trying to shade you right away either?

 

[TheCapsFan]

i... think that happened like, once with my Soulmaster read changing when i read the last few pages when i answered you

I also actually do give a shit about what people think about me... sometimes :>.

It also happened a couple times when you were questioning me earlier in the game. Example:

That can't be true because in your post 183 you make a reference (of his vote on Reiji) to DawningWinds's 149.

oh wait im dumb

"I had not gotten there" = "i didn't see his post at the time i wrote that"

It's like you jumped the gun a bit.

It's honestly not a huge deal, I just thought that your early game was stronger than your middle game. Since then, you haven't pinged me.

 

[TheCapsFan]

At a crossroads between Neo, Kai, and Soulmaster as to who to vote for to end the day. Gonna wait a bit longer before voting.

 

[Isaac the Investigator]

Ngl, these posts are long so I'm pretty much just skimming most of what I missed.

But leetic you are wrong. There is nothing hedgey about my statement there. The flow of the thread was that HD showed up, was kind of scummy, I voted there to pressure him. You asked me why my vote was still on there, I said I saw no reason to change it at that current point in time which was true. You are misrepresenting it as me saying I solely voted HD because no one else was around which was not the case. I said there might be people scummier than HD but I see no reason to pressure them with a vote if they are not in the thread or playing the game and at the time I placed my vote HD very much was. It's simple town tactics.

FA was around at the same time as you, why didn't you switch your vote to her?

 

[Isaac the Investigator]

Also my reads should be obvious from reading the thread. I'm feeling good about leetic and Reiji town (Reiji maybe a bit less so, but still strongly), DawningWind light town now after reviewing their posts and liking their reads list and I think I'm coming around to a HD town world because he does seem different from the games I've seen him wolf in. For a POE it's Kai/FA/SM/Caps and from those four I think Kai and FA are the scummiest.

What do you think about Soulmaster's catchup?

 

[Isaac the Investigator]

So this post is decent. Early on is mostly meta talk, which on early D1 is about all you can talk about. Latter bit and it seems as mostly gut reads, which again at this point should be expected. However, one is written as an aside which I'm not a fan of but so be it.

Ah the GTH post (aside from me, what on earth does GTH actually stand for?). Not much to say here.

Pressure vote on a 0-poster. They say they like doing this, and is a normal tactic in games so not really alignment indicative.

Oh that's the status stalk message I remembered. Comment about the 2 0-posters possibly being wolves. Sure it's possible, but unlikely at least that both are. Having 1 in the pair of the two (conveniently mentioned at the end of their post) might not be bad, especially because both of those aren't favorites on the town side. But nothing of this is new nor adds anything other than odds to the game, which it seems early to go for good odds.

Filler catching up post, ignore.

Oh a response to a question about the last substance post. Seems halfway backtracking but fine.
Another mention of our shared game, I am personally ignoring that but others take what you will.
Speculation about a indep/3rd party. Agree, survivor most likely, even if that was the most common indep on this site back years ago (no idea if the culture has changed since then). Nothing that even tries to forward the game really in this post.

Another filler, yay. (this is sarcasm, because saying that it is seems to be needed these days).
Is excuse for being inactive, which is totally fair, foodservice can be unpredictable.

This is actually something. Slightly more talk (throughout) about the online thingy. Moving on from that because that's old news.
Talk about a few people openers. Namely, the 2 people they pegged as 0-posters earlier. Which is they are now looking at why they might not be or be. Slight town lean on Caps, which is against most of the thread but whatever. Reiji-response, doesn't really tell us anything. They try to beef it up by making it itemized and look fancy, but it's nothing more than a bunch of "yeah sures".
Oh neo opens up with a good point. Yay?
From what I know of HD, and from what I'm learning about Leetic, that seems to track.



Well, this ISO didn't really help nearly as much as I thought it would. But here we are. I am sticking with my vote on Kai. There was something about all of the posts that I (apparently) can't really explain that put me off. I loathe the inactivity=scum and my brain doesn't really correlate the two unless it's severe inactivity in which case not a scum lynch more of a "you're not helping" lynch. But that's not really what I see here (inactivity wise).
Posts seems to be small responses to others (which I suppose is most of what I've done as well, crap). A couple have been hiding? behind different site cultures and talking about that, which is valid but not something that I like either. So sorry, turns out the ISO didn't really help but I'm not going to change my gut feeling until I get good reason otherwise.

----Other stuff time
Leetic mentioned something about my reads ending up being most of the same ones as the thread. Okay, sure possible for being s sheep, or maybe it's because I read the same things others did and jump to most of the same conclusions? Almost like mafia players tend to think the same a lot and will come to the same conclusions. Whoop-dee-fucking-doo. Such a novel breakthrough. I know me saying I was typing those as I came across things and not paying huge attention to what others have said won't help me but here I am saying it anyways. Sue me.

You've looked through eir posts and didn't find anything scummy, yet still are voting them for "gut feeling"? Yeah, "inactive=scum" is honestly a better reason

 

[Isaac the Investigator]

From what I remember, Soulmaster usually clams up or just gives up when he's mafia and is in trouble. He didn't really do that here and instead actually went back to Kaiveran's posts to provide reasoning for the vote. Retroactive, yes, but it's a higher effort post than pretty much anything else up to this point from Soulmaster. I think there's an actual attempt being made here.

Just summarizing someone's posts without commenting on them isn't effort

 

[Isaac the Investigator]

Still seeing SM as the best option, but I'm honestly considering NP as an option if her responses to me aren't good. I feel NP did put in a bunch of effort at the start but now it's much more sporatic and I feel she's been blending in more lately, similar how in the last game her activity declined majorly as the game went on. Caps has been honestly trending upwards a bit lately.

 

[HumanDawn]

PLAYERS

2. @Kaiveran
3. @TheCapsFan
5. @FinalArcadia
7. @neopest
9. @Soulmaster

GAME
^
l HumanDawn (haters gonna hate xxx)
l leetic!
l DawningWinds
l Reiji
l TheCapsFan
l Kaiveran
l (FinalArcadia
l Neopest)
l Soulmaster
v
DLC

A really hard read list to do, but this is what I more or less feel right now.

leetic! - I had some fears that they may have been playing off an aggressive game to make them deflect attention and criticism, but from the consistency of the attitude in their posts and content quality, as well as their defenses to heat placed on them, I haven't felt any need to pursue or suspect the slot. I don't agree with everything they say, but I can see where it comes from.

DawningWinds - Surprisingly ended up being very high considering everyone... I'm content with their contributions to game and I don't feel any scum vibes from the slot. I'm not fearful of anything here and I haven't seen anything that would make me expect differently!

Reiji - If this is a scum slot I'm gonna be very surprised :M. They may not spend too much time on the thread, but the time they use has been insightful in getting me to understand their point of view and contribute to moving the thread. None of their posts come off as malicious as to me, and while from what I remember, they played a good game in Fire Emblem Mafia as scum, it is nowhere near to this level of effort. The slot feels very natural to me so it's hard to distrust it.

TheCapsFan - A very hard slot to read for me, but I've been getting vibes that they are their Town selves. The last time they were Mafia they sucked up to me until they voted me after I voted their scumbuddy with the threat that they would definitely die :M. He isn't afraid to call me out, and his paranoia on me feels genuine rather than an attempt to use it to get me lynched or make me seem untrustworthy for malicious reasons.

Kaiveran - Despite SM voting him, if you remove that, this slot still doesn't get a lot of points for me. I don't remember that they voted, and their in-thread presence from what they do is low. I get the impression that this is how they generally play from their personality because they don't seem to be so aggressive as a player, but admittedly that is also something Mafia can use to their advantage so overall it's not very telling. I wanted more but... I'm not satisfied. They have their reads and they didn't bother me at least other than the "lol" TheCapsFan read, whatever that means. They have no vote but they are also conveniently excused because they haven't managed to catch up to all of the thread. For whoever has potentially played with Kaiveran, can I get some meta on this slot please?

FinalArcadia & Neopest - Surprisingly lower Town feeling than a lot of other players?? I don't feel anything that screams out "scum" to me, but then again despite Towny posts I didn't end up feeling as good compared to other players. I have the nagging paranoid feeling that at least one of them is Mafia even if I don't think there's too strong of a reason to suspect them. I would actually say that this is an amusing read because leetic! got to this through Soulmaster's reads on both of them from potentially faking them, and I got it by going through my Town -> Mafia reads, so maybe there is actually a lot more merit on that? I'm conflicted on both to the point I can't pick who would be scum from them considering their position, but that could also be that somebody from my stronger Town reads is actually Mafia :M. I don't think they're w/w at least.

Soulmaster - Their posts after my vote haven't really changed my mind. FA and TheCapsFan praise the slot for putting more effort and that it would be more in character for them to give up, but I don't think that excuses that the content is just... not good, when I have managed to Town read Soulmaster on less, and even better content throughout the years. If his case on Kaiveran had more thought then I would get it, but I get the impression that they are voting them just... cause. I don't think they even answered my question (313) to them of what about Reiji they weren't a fan of, so it just comes off across as another half-assed read. I'm disappointed that TheCapsFan and FinalArcadia are even just thinking of letting him off this :M.

 

[HumanDawn]

It also happened a couple times when you were questioning me earlier in the game. Example:


It's like you jumped the gun a bit.

It's honestly not a huge deal, I just thought that your early game was stronger than your middle game. Since then, you haven't pinged me.

In that case, it wouldn't even be because my question got answered because I saw the explanation/answer to it later on, but because I misunderstood one answer in one post for a few minutes.

 

[Isaac the Investigator]

Basically, my main contention with NP is that she seemed to be a lot more comfortable in the beginning, when there was little activity, than now, when there is a lot of it.

 

[FinalArcadia]

I'm disappointed that TheCapsFan and FinalArcadia are even just thinking of letting him off this :M.

With other players I admit I'd be more critical, but Soulmaster has a habit of being lynched D1 for this same song and dance that happens over and over on this forum, and in a very small game that concerns me because he is an easy mislynch for that reason. I was surprised when he came back not once, but more than that to try to explain his vote given his behavior as scum in the past, and I can see some genuine frustration when he was saying to leetic that he can't help that he came to a lot of the same conclusions as other players. I would rather have a Soulmaster lynch than a lot of other options, but the more I'd thought about it, the more nervous (paranoid, honestly) I got that he may be getting railroaded into an easy mislynch. And then I kept thinking about neopest and progressively feeling worse about that slot.

Soulmaster is not totally off the hook by any means, though, and given his current status in the game, it would certainly be nice if he'd show up some more and touch on more (and more recent) topics.

 

[Isaac the Investigator]

With other players I admit I'd be more critical, but Soulmaster has a habit of being lynched D1 for this same song and dance that happens over and over on this forum, and in a very small game that concerns me because he is an easy mislynch for that reason. I was surprised when he came back not once, but more than that to try to explain his vote given his behavior as scum in the past, and I can see some genuine frustration when he was saying to leetic that he can't help that he came to a lot of the same conclusions as other players. I would rather have a Soulmaster lynch than a lot of other options, but the more I'd thought about it, the more nervous (paranoid, honestly) I got that he may be getting railroaded into an easy mislynch. And then I kept thinking about neopest and progressively feeling worse about that slot.

Soulmaster is not totally off the hook by any means, though, and given his current status in the game, it would certainly be nice if he'd show up some more and touch on more (and more recent) topics.

This post is pretty hedgy, and the argument is basically SM might be a misvote rather than any indication that he is

Rather than how you feel about SM, how do you feel about the people voting SM, FA?

 

[Kaiveran]

Yecch, just woke up a few minutes ago

Don't think I'll be able to essay out much more, just speed read and respond to any direct mentions.

("Maybe you shouldn't have signed up", I hear. Well, I didn't know the game was gonna start right before my double-day at work!)

Is there a semi-current votecount anywhere? I feel like that'll further help focus my efforts where they're needed.

 

[Kaiveran]

Votals

Spoiler: Mentions

@DawningWinds
@Kaiveran
@TheCapsFan
@leetic!
@FinalArcadia
@Reiji
@neopest
@HumanDawn
@Soulmaster
@ReturnofMCH
@Snowy

Soulmaster - 3 (TheCapsFan, leetic!, HumanDawn)
Kaiveran - 2 (Reiji, Soulmaster)
neopest - 1 (FinalArcadia)

I apologise for the error in the Day 1 post. The phase ends at 9pm CDT, not 2pm (it's 2pm AEDT during the next day for me, hence my confusion). As such, there are 9.5 hours left in the phase.

Haven't seen any votes since this one so I'm assuming this is correct. Only Soul and I huh? time to find out why