Things you want to see done in Pokemon Gen 8 (2019)

[Kit Chan]

Ruby and Sapphire didn't do any kind of refreshing for items, though, and they were the games that introduced abilities, so there's no rebooting there. The closest thing they did was alter berries, which made them more complex rather than simpler.

And what makes the system of items and abilities that we have now "too much"? Very few of them are duplicates.

Items are probably the easiest thing to prepare with a Pokemon team, so I don't see how restarting them would make things any easier.

There's too many items and abilities to worry about and keep track of
RS revamped DVs as IVs and replaced stat exp with EVs, as well as add abilities and natures. They also ditched a couple of items like Beserk Gene and completely redid berries.
DP fixed move categories but since then there hasn't been much gameplay change.

I think team building would be more accessible and new life would be breathed into gameplay if EVs, natures and IVs got redone and items got rebooted. I like the idea of a skill point system and/or some sort of stat altering equipment system.

 

[RK9]

I'd actually like to see an item that allows you to teach egg moves to mons.

You would still be able to get the good moves you need without discarding the current mon you've already put work on wihtout needing to go all the tedious breeding and hatching.

 

[Kit Chan]

I'd actually like to see an item that allows you to teach egg moves to mons.

You would still be able to get the good moves you need without discarding the current mon you've already put work on wihtout needing to go all the tedious breeding and hatching.

I'd like to see a move tutor who does that as long as you have a compatible Pokemon with the move in your party to mentor the move to the recipient.

 

[TechSkylander1518]

There's too many items and abilities to worry about and keep track of

The same could be argued for Pokemon, too, with the hundreds out there, but that doesn't mean they need to remove any.

RS revamped DVs as IVs and replaced stat exp with EVs, as well as add abilities and natures. They also ditched a couple of items like Beserk Gene and completely redid berries.

I didn't argue that RS didn't change stats, and I already mentioned redoing berries. (which, as I said before, didn't simplify berries at all-Remembering a Pecha Berry cures poison takes more than remembering that a PSNCUREBERRY cures it) And the Beserk Gene was the only item removed-all other held items were kept in.

 

[BlueWaves]

The same could be argued for Pokemon, too, with the hundreds out there, but that doesn't mean they need to remove any.


I didn't argue that RS didn't change stats, and I already mentioned redoing berries. (which, as I said before, didn't simplify berries at all-Remembering a Pecha Berry cures poison takes more than remembering that a PSNCUREBERRY cures it) And the Beserk Gene was the only item removed-all other held items were kept in.

Too much in a sense that there’s too much content. There’s over 800 Pokémon as of now, but you can’t even encounter all the Pokémon on a play through. What’s worse is that Items are also needed due to ties to the Pokémon: Giratina’s Griseous Orb for example. And then there all those moves who have to be programmed and animated. It takes a lot of effort, you know. And there’s so much they can put. So it’s only a matter of time till they have to put a limit. ( To be fair they did that for PLG)

 

[TechSkylander1518]

Too much in a sense that there’s too much content. There’s over 800 Pokémon as of now, but you can’t even encounter all the Pokémon on a play through. What’s worse is that Items are also needed due to ties to the Pokémon: Giratina’s Griseous Orb for example. And then there all those moves who have to be programmed and animated. It takes a lot of effort, you know. And there’s so much they can put. So it’s only a matter of time till they have to put a limit. ( To be fair they did that for PLG)

The moves do need to be animated, but they don't need to be programmed-there's no reason to change the code when the battle system is the same. And abilities and items don't need any graphical updates, so there's even less work done in bringing them to the next games-certainly less work than creating a new system or deciding which items and abilities to delete, and then rebalancing the resulting battle system.

 

[Kit Chan]

The same could be argued for Pokemon, too, with the hundreds out there, but that doesn't mean they need to remove any.

RS only included 200 Pokémon while the rest were reintroduced with the other gen 3 games, which was a good way of keeping each game unique and expanding the total roster in increments

 

[Boss1708]

^ Honestly it feels like TechSkylander1518 doesn't want to understand the (valid) points you guys are making.

I think it's obvious that, at some point, Game Freak will have to start thinking about a way to "trim some fat" out of the games, and I agree that LGPE had that goal.

 

[Almonds]

I agree that some abilities could be trimmed. At least get rid of repetitive ones that share a similar feature. Vital Spirit and Insomnia has the same effects so get rid of one.

 

[TechSkylander1518]

RS only included 200 Pokémon while the rest were reintroduced with the other gen 3 games, which was a good way of keeping each game unique and expanding the total roster in increments

They still included all Pokemon, though-you could trade/battle with Pokemon from FRLG. That's pretty different from removing them entirely.

If we're discussing this in terms of just the game itself, and not anything involves wireless connections...what's the harm in including them? Few NPCs use held items, and it's pretty unlikely the player will encounter all abilities in the game when they play. Including these items/abilities would just give the player more options for how to play, they wouldn't need to worry about what they dealt with from opponents.

^ Honestly it feels like TechSkylander1518 doesn't want to understand the (valid) points you guys are making.

I think it's obvious that, at some point, Game Freak will have to start thinking about a way to "trim some fat" out of the games, and I agree that LGPE had that goal.

Instead of being condescending, why don't you try to help explain? You were mad in another thread that users said you didn't want to understand their points-now you're willing to say the same thing about me?

Here are the points that I've seen made for deleting items and abilities:

• There are too many to keep track of and remember. I pointed out Pokemon as a counterexample-there are 800+ Pokemon, and it's hard to keep track of them all, but that doesn't mean that some Pokemon have to be removed from the series entirely. Additionally, there are more Pokemon than there are held items or abilities-there are only 234 abilities, and about 290 held items. Both abilities and held items don't even approach the halfway mark compared to the number of Pokemon-so why is their size such a problem?
• Reducing items and abilities would make it easier for a player to prepare their teams. Again, there's less abilities and items than there are Pokemon, even if we just take the regional dex. In SuMo, for example, there's 302 Pokemon in the regional dex, which would be more than all items and abilities, even if they didn't take out any. (which they did-SuMo didn't have any Gems, for example, already bringing the total number of held items down by 18)
• There's been a precedent when Ruby and Sapphire redid the berry system. They did, but they added several berries, they didn't remove them.
• Ruby and Sapphire also removed the Beserker Gene. As far as I know, this is the only item that they removed.
• Ruby and Sapphire included a restricted dex. This still did not result in the permanent deletion of any Pokemon, it only excluded the Pokemon that would be encountered in a normal playthrough.
• Moves need to be programmed and animated. This is something that's only true for new content. Returning abilities and items don't need any updating-we saw in LGPE that they just left the code for them in and programmed the game around it, rather than program the game without the abilities and items in. If Game Freak had to reprogram all the recurring items, abilities, and moves in, why would they do that for LGPE when they weren't even using abilities or held items? There's little need for graphic updating, either-we've had the same bag sprites for every item since its debut.

Everyone arguing for this also keeps making vague references to trimming out unnecessary content, but nobody mentions what specifically should be removed, even when I've asked. Do you really think it's fair to say I'm intentionally ignoring their points when they're the ones refusing to elaborate on them?

 

[BlueWaves]

They still included all Pokemon, though-you could trade/battle with Pokemon from FRLG. That's pretty different from removing them entirely.

If we're discussing this in terms of just the game itself, and not anything involves wireless connections...what's the harm in including them? Few NPCs use held items, and it's pretty unlikely the player will encounter all abilities in the game when they play. Including these items/abilities would just give the player more options for how to play, they wouldn't need to worry about what they dealt with from opponents.

Instead of being condescending, why don't you try to help explain? You were mad in another thread that users said you didn't want to understand their points-now you're willing to say the same thing about me?

Here are the points that I've seen made for deleting items and abilities:

• There are too many to keep track of and remember. I pointed out Pokemon as a counterexample-there are 800+ Pokemon, and it's hard to keep track of them all, but that doesn't mean that some Pokemon have to be removed from the series entirely. Additionally, there are more Pokemon than there are held items or abilities-there are only 234 abilities, and about 290 held items. Both abilities and held items don't even approach the halfway mark compared to the number of Pokemon-so why is their size such a problem?
• Reducing items and abilities would make it easier for a player to prepare their teams. Again, there's less abilities and items than there are Pokemon, even if we just take the regional dex. In SuMo, for example, there's 302 Pokemon in the regional dex, which would be more than all items and abilities, even if they didn't take out any. (which they did-SuMo didn't have any Gems, for example, already bringing the total number of held items down by 18)
• There's been a precedent when Ruby and Sapphire redid the berry system. They did, but they added several berries, they didn't remove them.
• Ruby and Sapphire also removed the Beserker Gene. As far as I know, this is the only item that they removed.
• Ruby and Sapphire included a restricted dex. This still did not result in the permanent deletion of any Pokemon, it only excluded the Pokemon that would be encountered in a normal playthrough.
• Moves need to be programmed and animated. This is something that's only true for new content. Returning abilities and items don't need any updating-we saw in LGPE that they just left the code for them in and programmed the game around it, rather than program the game without the abilities and items in. If Game Freak had to reprogram all the recurring items, abilities, and moves in, why would they do that for LGPE when they weren't even using abilities or held items? There's little need for graphic updating, either-we've had the same bag sprites for every item since its debut.

Everyone arguing for this also keeps making vague references to trimming out unnecessary content, but nobody mentions what specifically should be removed, even when I've asked. Do you really think it's fair to say I'm intentionally ignoring their points when they're the ones refusing to elaborate on them?

We can start by removing outclassed abilities- Big pecks to Clear Body for example.

In a similar vein, remove some Pokémon that are gimmicks like Unown. Unown is a waste of Pokémon and space, it’s onlt thing it’s got going for it is collectibility.

Move wise, cut down on too similar moves like Mega and Giga drain, only keep one. Remove also useless moves like Splash.

I’m not suggesting that we remove them from the series permanently. I say we just leave them out for one game, put them in another. I actually like the idea of a cap in Let’s Go, I dislike the execution.

Even though 294 abilities aren’t as numerous as Pokémon, that’s still a ton to program. They also have to reanimate the move slightly for each game due to engines you know, so it’s not a cut copy and paste job as you might think.

As for the items, the NPCs not using them for the most part Is the problem. They create items like Life Orb but are rarely used in-game bar battle facilities, which is a more or less a waste for the most part since the competitive side is the smallest faction in their eyes. So item trimming may not be worst decision ever.

 

[Poke Dragon]

Nothing needs to be removed from Pokemon, period. I don't know where that idea of needing to remove something just because they are there to take space comes from. I think it is better if they are left in the games just in case someone wants to use it. Just because you don't like a certain aspect doesn't mean it deserves to be removed. The best you can hope for is for Game Freak to stop with the concept before it becomes too much.

 

[prog rocker]

We can start by removing outclassed abilities- Big pecks to Clear Body for example.

In a similar vein, remove some Pokémon that are gimmicks like Unown. Unown is a waste of Pokémon and space, it’s onlt thing it’s got going for it is collectibility.

Move wise, cut down on too similar moves like Mega and Giga drain, only keep one. Remove also useless moves like Splash.

I’m not suggesting that we remove them from the series permanently. I say we just leave them out for one game, put them in another. I actually like the idea of a cap in Let’s Go, I dislike the execution.

Even though 294 abilities aren’t as numerous as Pokémon, that’s still a ton to program. They also have to reanimate the move slightly for each game due to engines you know, so it’s not a cut copy and paste job as you might think.

As for the items, the NPCs not using them for the most part Is the problem. They create items like Life Orb but are rarely used in-game bar battle facilities, which is a more or less a waste for the most part since the competitive side is the smallest faction in their eyes. So item trimming may not be worst decision ever.

That still leaves what they are going to do with Bank, since doing something like this will kill it.

 

[TechSkylander1518]

Move wise, cut down on too similar moves like Mega and Giga drain, only keep one. Remove also useless moves like Splash.

Weak moves exist for a reason-so that the player can upgrade them as their Pokemon grow stronger. It's a pretty common trait in turn-based battle games. What if we cut out moves like Scratch and Tackle and replaced them with Body Slam? Do you think it'd be a good idea to have players start the game with a 80 base power move? And taking out Splash would leave Magikarp with no moves, which the game tries to prevent from happening.

Even though 294 abilities aren’t as numerous as Pokémon, that’s still a ton to program. They also have to reanimate the move slightly for each game due to engines you know, so it’s not a cut copy and paste job as you might think.

Again, the 294 abilities aren't reprogrammed every time. If it really was a ton to program, why would they put all of them in LGPE, a game which uses none of them? And abilities don't use animations-there's just a popup announcing the effect.

I’m not suggesting that we remove them from the series permanently. I say we just leave them out for one game, put them in another. I actually like the idea of a cap in Let’s Go, I dislike the execution.

So why not just do a regional dex, and let players transfer them in if they want, like they did with every past game? In Gen 7, you didn't even have a national dex to complete, so it wasn't like anything was held back by letting players transfer in other Pokemon. What is there to gain from blocking Pokemon from being in a game?

As for the items, the NPCs not using them for the most part Is the problem. They create items like Life Orb but are rarely used in-game bar battle facilities, which is a more or less a waste for the most part since the competitive side is the smallest faction in their eyes. So item trimming may not be worst decision ever.

"Removing this part of the game that people enjoy, and that doesn't harm anyone to keep in, just because we think there's not enough people using it" seems like a pretty bad decision to me.

 

[BlueWaves]

Nothing needs to be removed from Pokemon, period. I don't know where that idea of needing to remove something just because they are there to take space comes from. I think it is better if they are left in the games just in case someone wants to use it. Just because you don't like a certain aspect doesn't mean it deserves to be removed. The best you can hope for is for Game Freak to stop with the concept before it becomes too much.

That still leaves what they are going to do with Bank, since doing something like this will kill it.

I'm not suggesting to remove them from the game permanently. What I suggest is that these Pokemon can be kept in Bank, but they can't be transferred to the current games due to a limit.

Weak moves exist for a reason-so that the player can upgrade them as their Pokemon grow stronger. It's a pretty common trait in turn-based battle games. What if we cut out moves like Scratch and Tackle and replaced them with Body Slam? Do you think it'd be a good idea to have players start the game with a 80 base power move? And taking out Splash would leave Magikarp with no moves, which the game tries to prevent from happening.


Again, the 294 abilities aren't reprogrammed every time. If it really was a ton to program, why would they put all of them in LGPE, a game which uses none of them? And abilities don't use animations-there's just a popup announcing the effect.

So why not just do a regional dex, and let players transfer them in if they want, like they did with every past game? In Gen 7, you didn't even have a national dex to complete, so it wasn't like anything was held back by letting players transfer in other Pokemon. What is there to gain from blocking Pokemon from being in a game?

"Removing this part of the game that people enjoy, and that doesn't harm anyone to keep in, just because we think there's not enough people using it" seems like a pretty bad decision to me.

1. People are speculating the reason abilities are programmed in PLG is probably because to ensure compatibility with future games, such as Bank.

2. The issue isn't the Pokedex. The issue is the content pile up. By allowing all the Pokemon again, you have to reanimate moves and items connected to the Pokemon- like Glaciate and DNA Splicers for Kyurem. Then you have its two forms, which requires both Reshiram and Zekrom, two separate Pokemon who need their moves and abilities and programmed. That takes up a lot of time and effort- and I'm sure its not just a cut, copy, and paste.

3. I'm not saying that's a good decision. But that logic is why Battle Frontier didn't appear in ORAS: Not enough players don't seem to be playing it, so let's throw it away!

 

[Boss1708]

Instead of being condescending

Now that I reread my post, it does come off as a little condescending. Sorry about that!

You were mad in another thread that users said you didn't want to understand their points-now you're willing to say the same thing about me?

I was mad, because I was accused of "not caring about the mental health of LGBTQ kids". It's a very harsh accusation. By the way, now that you mentioned it, I just went back and checked: you gave a like to each and every post that was accusing me of this. Thanks a lot.

And if we are going to bring past discussions here, I specifically remember you being condescending to Joker, when you guys were discussing the graphics of SwSh. But that's besides the point.

Do you really think it's fair to say I'm intentionally ignoring their points when they're the ones refusing to elaborate on them?

The reason I said this, was this particular thing:

The same could be argued for Pokemon, too, with the hundreds out there, but that doesn't mean they need to remove any.

 

[Kit Chan]

They still included all Pokemon, though-you could trade/battle with Pokemon from FRLG. That's pretty different from removing them entirely.

If we're discussing this in terms of just the game itself, and not anything involves wireless connections...what's the harm in including them? Few NPCs use held items, and it's pretty unlikely the player will encounter all abilities in the game when they play. Including these items/abilities would just give the player more options for how to play, they wouldn't need to worry about what they dealt with from opponents.

Yea, the Pokemon were legally unobtainable till FRLG came out, I don't know why you think I said they removed them entirely.

I'm talking about competitive play. The fact that you wouldn't encounter everything in single player just highlights part of the problem. You go into a multiplayer battle and you suddenly find you know nothing about the game while your opponent has downloaded Bulbapedia's database inside their head. And even if you do read up on everything, memorizing it all is another story.

 

[Poke Dragon]

I'm not suggesting to remove them from the game permanently. What I suggest is that these Pokemon can be kept in Bank, but they can't be transferred to the current games due to a limit.

1. People are speculating the reason abilities are programmed in PLG is probably because to ensure compatibility with future games, such as Bank.

2. The issue isn't the Pokedex. The issue is the content pile up. By allowing all the Pokemon again, you have to reanimate moves and items connected to the Pokemon- like Glaciate and DNA Splicers for Kyurem. Then you have its two forms, which requires both Reshiram and Zekrom, two separate Pokemon who need their moves and abilities and programmed. That takes up a lot of time and effort- and I'm sure its not just a cut, copy, and paste.

3. I'm not saying that's a good decision. But that logic is why Battle Frontier didn't appear in ORAS: Not enough players don't seem to be playing it, so let's throw it away!

First off, Reshiram, Zekrom, and Kyurem, as well as their moves, are already coded in the game, so you can't really use that as the argument of too much since it's unavoidable that both of them are needed for both Kyurem forms to be available without clashing against the lore built in for them. They are nothing like the Battle Frontier in this sense where the Battle Frontier can be easily excluded by avoiding to start development on it. Stuff that's already in the code is more than likely staying. It would simply be too much work for Game Freak sift through thousands and thousands of coding just to remove some from a copy just for minor differences to happen and then having to implement the code again in the exact same spots to make sure the game works correctly. And for what, just for a vocal minority who can't appreciate the fact that a game offers more options for both veteran and newcomers into the series? It just annoys me to no end when someone demands something to be removed from the coding just because they don't like it. I don't like Mega Evolutions, but I'm not demanding that they would get removed, just wanting their clones to stop being introduced.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

That takes up a lot of time and effort- and I'm sure its not just a cut, copy, and paste.

We know for a fact that some stuff is copy pasted. I’m pretty sure the Key items list was copy pasted for a few generations. If that’s copy-pasted, I expect moves would and abilities would be too, since things like stats and power don’t change each generation.
Those factors are quite constant in this series.

 

[TechSkylander1518]

1. People are speculating the reason abilities are programmed in PLG is probably because to ensure compatibility with future games, such as Bank.

We know for a fact that isn't necessary-the VC games can have their Pokemon transferred, and they don't include abilities. And even if it was, they could register the ability without going to the trouble of including the ability's effect.

you have to reanimate moves and items connected to the Pokemon- like Glaciate and DNA Splicers for Kyurem.

Again, the items don't need to be updated. Look at the sprite of the Potion in Gen 3, and compare it to the current one-they're the same.

who need their moves and abilities and programmed. That takes up a lot of time and effort- and I'm sure its not just a cut, copy, and paste.

And yet, Game Freak is happy to spend all this time and effort to program abilities in LGPE, a game which doesn't use them.

3. I'm not saying that's a good decision. But that logic is why Battle Frontier didn't appear in ORAS: Not enough players don't seem to be playing it, so let's throw it away!

If you're not saying it's a good decision, why are you arguing in favor of removing them?

I was mad, because I was accused of "not caring about the mental health of LGBTQ kids". It's a very harsh accusation. And by the way, now that you mentioned it, I just went back and checked, you gave a like to each and every post that was accusing me of this.

Nobody said "Meta Boss doesn't care about LGBTQ kids"-they just said that representation could be positive for the mental health of LGBTQ kids. My point was that you took this as a personal attack, claiming that, because they disagreed with you, they were saying that you didn't care about their points-but now you outright accused me of refusing to try to understand someone else because I disagreed with them.

And if we are going to bring past discussions here, I specifically remember you being condescending to Joker, when you guys were discussing the graphics of SwSh. But that's besides the point.

I brought your discussion up because the scenario of "you don't care about this point" was very similar, not because of the general idea of being condescending. (especially not in retaliation to someone claiming their opinion was fact)

Yea, the Pokemon were legally unobtainable till FRLG came out, I don't know why you think I said they removed them entirely.

I didn't say they removed them entirely, what I'm saying is that it's a different situation from removing items entirely, which is what you've been saying should happen.

I'm talking about competitive play. The fact that you wouldn't encounter everything in single player just highlights part of the problem. You go into a multiplayer battle and you suddenly find you know nothing about the game while your opponent has downloaded Bulbapedia's database inside their head. And even if you do read up on everything, memorizing it all is another story.

If you're focusing on competitive play, why bring up a game's restricted dex as a positive point? Players can encounter Pokemon that aren't in their own game when battling other players.

This is also assuming that the player is always being matched up with hyper-competitive players, but not everybody that someone battles with is going to be like that.