(Type) should resist (Type) but be weak to (type)!

[Derp-Derp2]

i know steel rusts but i think water is OP and there is stainless steel i think thunder attacks should be SE on steel

 

[Master Weasel]

ice SE against water really DOES make sense to me, but maybe not resist just be neutral from water, since ice will melt in water eventually, but not as quickly as if exposed to heat.

Ice is already pretty good attack-wise. The problem with Ice is that it's a bad type defensively, so it should resist Water for starters.

poison SE bug because of pesticides, and any bug that secretes its own venom would be bug/poison like Venomoth. (which takes neutral damage and is still immune to poison condition similar to grass/poison Victreebel)

Bug is already resisted by almost half of the type chart. It doesn't need to be nerfed more.

poison SE to fighting i think would work, since fighting is all about physical strength, and poison weakens physical health significantly. Poison really needs to be more powerful offensively and more volatile defensively. Since many poisons are inflammable fire SE poison might make sense.

No. Fighting already took a hit because of Fairy. Besides, Poison already resists Fighting, and Poison is designed to be a support/defensive type.

Psychic could do with resisting fairy instead of fire, to balance the type chart and also because psychic = mental power which would resist fairy-like trickery. Psychic needs to stay SE to poison because it represents spiritual healing i believe, but also stay neutral to attacks.

Fairy should be weak to Psychic as well.

steel should resist ground, since steel girders are used in skyscrapers to prevent them falling during earthquakes, but steel would need a different weakness intstead to keep balance. Water maybe? Because steel rusts. (Stainless steel is an alloy comprising non-metallic compounds as well)

I think these are fine the way they are, to be honest.

Fairy should really resist itself, Flying should resist itself, Ghost should resist itself (since how do ghosts spook each other?) but be weak to electric (some paranormal specialists say that white noise repels poultergeists).Electric does need another weakness, but i don't know what. Rock should resist elec (but not immune) and itself.

If Fairy were to get a new weakness, then yes, it should resist itself. I think Flying is okay as it is, but maybe it can use a minor buff. Electric is a little tricky, so no comment on that.

Ghost and dark could really just amalgamate into one type that is immune to fighting and psychic but no longer normal. Normal would still be immune to it. I call it 'shadow'.

Would make sense as people like to refer to Dark as "Ghost II", but I doubt Game Freak will do it. They made another type to counter Psychic for a reason.

On a side note, 'bone' moves (bone club, bone rush etc) make more sense to me as rock-type. as rock type they would be NVE to ground (since bones are buried in the earth) or steel (since bones are clearly NOT stronger than metal). Also the effect of throwing a bone at a bird would be pretty much the same as throwing a stone.

That really wouldn't be fair to Marowak, as it gets STAB from those moves and is one of the few Pokemon that can learn them.

 

[Osprey]

Hmm... With Water being resistant to Ice, think about it. I'm pretty sure someone here has put ice into a glass of water before. The water, as long as it's above freezing temp., will eventually melt the ice, even if it takes a while. As for Ghosts being supereffective against eachother, I think it's just to make up for the lack of alternative weaknesses. Pure Ghost is weak only to Dark and Ghost types, right? Kinda like how Dragons used to be weak only to themselves and Ice...

 

[Lysson]

Here's to being that one person.

I don't think fairy should be super effective against dragon as dragon has now 3 weaknesses and only 1 super effective... which is its self... a lot of dragons are now hardly usable if they're not a legendary or psuedo legend (They could have made a fire/ice psuedo with levitate to counter dragons but nooooo). But I certainly agree with fairy being immune to dragon types, stops those pesky dragon dancing outragers (I'm looking at you big cuddly Dragonite)!

And since Ice is hardly usable I think it should resist fairy and be super effective against fairy.

 

[Hex Maniac]

I'm not quoting people individually except in some cases because I'm lazy but here's my take on some of the ideas on this thread:

Bug shouldn't resist rock. Bugs manage to live under rocks because they dig under them (which is more of a Bug-Ground thing than a Bug-Rock thing) or if they get together in large numbers to move a rock. Bugs digging into rocks is more the exception than the rule. Loads of rock-type moves are based on impact, so the idea is that the bugs would be squished by moves like Rock Tomb.

Bugs shouldn't be neutral to Fire. They can adapt to harsh climates but that's not the same as being immune to Fire. In fact Fire is a common way to kill bugs (or cook them I suppose if that's your thing). Plants can resist harsh climates as well, doesn't make them immune to fire though.

Bugs are not immune to being frozen. Some species have adapted so they're in a dormant state while frozen. They're more the exception than the norm. It would also be useless in battle like @Master Mew has said, what would it do? Make the Bugs freeze and then resist hits while being frozen? Sounds annoying and useless to me.

I can see Ice-Water going either way. Their relationship depends mainly on the temperature. You can have glaciers floating on water and ice cubes melting in your drink depending on the water temp. I don't care either way.

Poison being SE against bugs or water is missing a key point here... not all of poison is about pollution. There are poisonous bugs and poisonous fish, those things aren't mutually exclusive. Lots if not most poison-moved seem to be natural poison generated by those pokémon (exceptions are probably pokemon like Garbodor).

Bugs being SE against Steel? Yeah, if you interpret bugs in the sense of computer bugs or think of insects causing damage in machines... but that's not the case here, not all Steel pokémon are machines, and Bug pokemon are quite literally bugs. Insects don't have much effect on Steel.

Ever heard about that big rock that killed the dinosaurs?

The "big rock" that kill the dinosaurs isn't supposed to have killed them due to impact (except for the unlucky ones in that area I guess) but because of ensuing climate change and the effect on the rest of the world.

Psychic could do with resisting fairy instead of fire, to balance the type chart and also because psychic = mental power which would resist fairy-like trickery. Psychic needs to stay SE to poison because it represents spiritual healing i believe, but also stay neutral to attacks.

I agree.

Ghost should resist itself (since how do ghosts spook each other?) but be weak to electric (some paranormal specialists say that white noise repels poultergeists)

"Some paranormal specialists" say but you could also argue that ghosts can cause electronics/electricity to malfunction. Some paranormal specialists have reported stuff like that as well.

Ghost and dark could really just amalgamate into one type that is immune to fighting and psychic but no longer normal. Normal would still be immune to it. I call it 'shadow'.

Nah, Ghost and Dark are pretty different, I honestly don't see where people get that many similarities from. They have a similar theme but to think about it, so does Psychic. Ghost attacks have a different quality to them from Dark ones if you take a close look, can't quite explain (maybe I could but can't be bothered to detail it out).

On a side note, 'bone' moves (bone club, bone rush etc) make more sense to me as rock-type. as rock type they would be NVE to ground (since bones are buried in the earth) or steel (since bones are clearly NOT stronger than metal). Also the effect of throwing a bone at a bird would be pretty much the same as throwing a stone.

No. Bones aren't rocks. Bones get buried in the ground but some types of ground can even preserve bones better than others and I think a common image is that of bones buried within the ground thus "belonging" to that element. There are very pokemon who can use bone moves, it's mainly Cubone and Marowak, and they're Rock types. While I'd love to see Bonemerang usable on Flying types (since it's being thrown at them) on the other hand it could be argued they're not being thrown far enough so it goes either way really. But bones as rock-type make no more sense than ground-type, even less sense actually.

W
On another note with Ice, I think it should resist Fairy. Sure, I've heard of ice fairies, but since fairies are creatures of myths that tend to dwell in warm-climate areas, and have a natural affinity for plantlife, then I think Ice should resist Fairy. After all, Ice freezes up Grass-types, and, in my eyes, some fairies (like the Flabebe family, for example), are "flower fairies", then I think that Ice should be able to resist Fairy. Super-effective against it, however, is not something I'd like (especially if Ice did gain super-effective status against Water, then I think five types would be enough). Sure, the same mindset could apply to Ice VS Fairy in terms of offensive punch, but I think that Fairy is pretty much fine the way it is (aside from my Ice resist Fairy bit).

If Fairy became weak to Ice just based on affinity with Plants then what would be the point of creating a new type instead of just giving Grass more strengths? There are Fairy-like spirits all over the world technically speaking. "Tend to dwell in warm-climate areas"? Can you give some examples of what you'd consider warm climate? Plenty of colder countries have Fairy or Fairy-like entities in their folklore. They abound in the UK, Ireland, etc and I wouldn't consider that climate particularly warm.

 

[The Big Al]

Having played some other RPG, I think Fire and Ice should be Super Effective Against each other. Fire-types should be just as harshly effective by extreme cold as ice-types are by extreme heat. Then you could have Flame Body and Magma Armor negate the weakness for Pokemon with enough heat to weaken the attack before impact similar to how Heatproof nerfs fire type moves.

Also, I think Levitate should be a separate status for Pokemon other than its ability. That way non-flying pokemon with wings or naturally float would take no damage from ground-type moves while still having another ability. That would mean the Magnemite family could levitate normally and the Koffing family could have a fitting ability like Aftermath as a couple of examples.

I also agree with those who say ice should be super effective against water-types. I'd also like to see Bug and Poison be super effective against each other again. Poison needs more types to be super effective against. Ice also needs some resistances like resisting normal, ground, and flying type moves. Other than that, the type chart is okay as is.

 

[firepanda]

Also, I think Levitate should be a separate status for Pokemon other than its ability. That way non-flying pokemon with wings or naturally float would take no damage from ground-type moves while still having another ability. That would mean the Magnemite family could levitate normally and the Koffing family could have a fitting ability like Aftermath as a couple of examples.

I agree. Too many Pokemon that logically should levitate don't. The ones that do often miss out on other great abilities because of it. A 'can fly' stat would also clear some peculiarities in flying types, such as Gyarados and Dodrio.

In particular, Bronzong could seriously benefit, since it would be immune to ground and neutral to fire. Garchomp REALLY needs a foolproof counter.

My favourite pokemon, Metagross would hopefully get an immunity as well.

 

[Gard81]

I believe Fairy should be resisted by Ice instead of Fire simply because: a) Fire already resists plenty and b) Ice actually needs more type resistance.

 

[Derp-Derp2]

The "big rock" that kill the dinosaurs isn't supposed to have killed them due to impact (except for the unlucky ones in that area I guess) but because of ensuing climate change and the effect on the rest of the world.

i think the instant death would of been better so i would say they are the lucky ones. But it still proves my point. If a ball of steel was thrown at a bug over a rock shaped as a ball how is the rock more effective? It isn't any more effective so on that bases you can not say bugs are weak to rocks.

The fact is bugs live among rocks so i don't see why they should be weak to them.

As for the ice vs water they did add the new move Freeze-Dry

 

[Gomez16]

Steel is weak to fighting ?
wood yes, bricks or rocks sure, I have never seen anyone break steel with their bare hands.

 

[The Big Al]

Steel is weak to fighting ?
wood yes, bricks or rocks sure, I have never seen anyone break steel with their bare hands.

Never heard the line about flesh being stronger than steel?

 

[Gomez16]

Steel is weak to fighting ?
wood yes, bricks or rocks sure, I have never seen anyone break steel with their bare hands.

Never heard the line about flesh being stronger than steel?

I never understood that, for like 3000 years steel has been to cut flesh.
I have also heard the body is stronger than the mind, but guess who is weak to psychic

hehe

 

[Hex Maniac]

The "big rock" that kill the dinosaurs isn't supposed to have killed them due to impact (except for the unlucky ones in that area I guess) but because of ensuing climate change and the effect on the rest of the world.

i think the instant death would of been better so i would say they are the lucky ones. But it still proves my point. If a ball of steel was thrown at a bug over a rock shaped as a ball how is the rock more effective? It isn't any more effective so on that bases you can not say bugs are weak to rocks.

The fact is bugs live among rocks so i don't see why they should be weak to them.

As for the ice vs water they did add the new move Freeze-Dry

If you set a bug down somewhere and throw a ball of steel OR rock at it, BOTH can squish the bug. It makes no sense for Bug to resist EITHER of those types. I've already explained my reasoning in my post which you apparently read selectively, bugs live among rocks but that's not the same as resisting a rock being thrown at them.

 

[Derp-Derp2]

living amongst rocks for me is enough reason in pokemon for them to be resistant too it. At least the link is there unlike as said above fighting and steel and imo steel and electric. Because steel contains iron so it should be imo super effective.

After what you said i feel bugs should be super effective vs ground types now considering ants and termites how they dig and shape the ground. I am just trying to help bugs out as i feel they are a bit of a letdown.

 

[Mitchman]

-Steel should be weak to water. I mean, rust anyone?
-Hell, Dragon should be weak to steel. Why they made it resist it is anyone's guess.....

 

[GhostFingers]

On a side note, 'bone' moves (bone club, bone rush etc) make more sense to me as rock-type. as rock type they would be NVE to ground (since bones are buried in the earth) or steel (since bones are clearly NOT stronger than metal). Also the effect of throwing a bone at a bird would be pretty much the same as throwing a stone.

No. Bones aren't rocks. Bones get buried in the ground but some types of ground can even preserve bones better than others and I think a common image is that of bones buried within the ground thus "belonging" to that element. There are very pokemon who can use bone moves, it's mainly Cubone and Marowak, and they're Rock types. While I'd love to see Bonemerang usable on Flying types (since it's being thrown at them) on the other hand it could be argued they're not being thrown far enough so it goes either way really. But bones as rock-type make no more sense than ground-type, even less sense actually.

Bones clearly aren't rocks, but their effects would be too similar offensively and defensively to separate into a 'bone' category for three moves and two pokemon. Or at least, that's what i thought. To continue the argument about birds, pokemon can spit water, flames and even throw seeds and stones at flyers, but can't throw bones far enough? That example is weak.

As for the ice vs water they did add the new move Freeze-Dry

That sort of proves the point though. We had to wait six generations before extreme cold could freeze water.

All i have said i didn't mean as an antidote to the current type arrangement, but if i were starting from scratch. I would make Poison and Fire offensively strong yet defensively volatile types, rather than continue with the current defensive strategy. (As an example)

 

[DarkMoonsDream]

Well, as bugs can live under rocks on one hand and be squished by them on the other hand, neutrality is the right way to go for me. In both directions. And ice needs something it resists. Just to balance out the type chart, one possibility would be to give ice resistance against fairies and dragons. I actually think that the type chart could have been a bit more balanced with just giving ice resistance to dragon before introducing a new type, but perhaps that's just me.

The water/ice-thingy is tricky. But as game freak already introduced a super effective ice attack against water specifically they could go the whole way. However, ice is already a great offensive type. Therefore going all the way is a thing which needs further thinking and perhaps testing. Give ice some resistances, check how good they fare then and afterwards decide if making ice SE against water is necessary. On the defensive side ice should stay neutral to water. As ice melts after some time if enough water is there that's completely fine with me.

Making poison SE against bugs and water makes sense for me. You pollute the seas or any other water body and life in there is basically screwed. Especially if poison is introduced in big amounts. And this screwing over happens much faster compared to pollution of e. g. air. Just compare the Shell incident in the Gulf of Mexico with polluted metropolies. And pesticides DO kill bugs. They are invented to do so. So, why not introduce that concept into the games? Bug and water pokemon who produce their own poison or are able to live in polluted environments can become or stay water/poison or bug/poison as it has been done since generation 1. Which gives them immunity if they happen upon another poison type.

 

[Pink Panzer]

Making poison SE against bugs and water makes sense for me. You pollute the seas or any other water body and life in there is basically screwed. Especially if poison is introduced in big amounts. And this screwing over happens much faster compared to pollution of e. g. air. Just compare the Shell incident in the Gulf of Mexico with polluted metropolies. And pesticides DO kill bugs. They are invented to do so. So, why not introduce that concept into the games? Bug and water pokemon who produce their own poison or are able to live in polluted environments can become or stay water/poison or bug/poison as it has been done since generation 1. Which gives them immunity if they happen upon another poison type.

I agree fully on effectiveness against water, but as for bugs, I'm not really for it, because not all poisons are pesticides. On the other hand, there should be a "Pesticide" move that is super-effective against bugs, akin to Freeze-Dry.

 

[homer.homs]

Mine is this:

Normal type should be weak to poison type and resist Fairy type.
Fighting type should be weak to Steel type and not resistant to it and deals super effective to Ground type, but deals half damage to dragon type.
Flying type should deal super effective to fire type.
Poison type should be weak against Ice type and Water type, deals super effective to normal type, deals normal damage to grass type and absorb normal damage from it.
Ground type should not be weak against Ice type but weak against Fighting type.
Rock type should resist Psychic type, immune to dark type.
Bug type(the most underrated) should deal normal damage to fighting type, fairy type and ghost type and absorb normal damage to fighting type and grass type.
Ghost type should absorb normal damage to bug type but weak to Fairy type
Steel type should be weak to Water type, deals super effective damage to electric type. Also deals super effective to fighting and absorb half damage from it.
Fire type should resist Electric type and absorb half damage from it and weak to Flying type
Water type should deal super effective to Steel type and Poison type and resistant to Poison type, but absorb super effective to Ice type and deal half damage to it.
Grass type should deal normal damage to Poison Type and Bug type and absorb normal damage from it. But super effective to Cut/Scratch-base moves(Cut, Fury Swipes, etc.).
Electric type should deal half damage to fire type and absorb half damage from it, and weak to steel types.
Psychic type should deal super effective to Dragon but deals half damage to rock type.
Ice type should deal super effective to Poison type and Water type, deals normal damage to ground type and absorb half damage from Water type.
Dragon type should resist fighting type but absorb super effective to Psychic type.
Dark type should deal no damage from rock type, absorb super effective from Fairy type, but deals super effective damage to Fairy type too, also, they should absorb super effective from light-base move(Solar Beam, MoonBlast, etc).
Fairy type should absorb normal damage from Bug type, deals super effective to ghost type and deals half damage to normal type.

 

[GhostFingers]

Seems i forgot to throw in my opinion about types resisting themselves.
-Rock should definitely resist itself. The likes of Aerodactyl, Archeops and Magcargo being weak to one of their own types is baffling.
-Fairy too, should definitely resist itself, and throw in another weakness for balance.
-Ground could stand to resist itself without breaking the metagame mechanics, but from a logic standpoint i can see why it's a neutral match-up.
-Normal is the only other type that is currently neutral to itself, and i think it makes sense as to why, but on the other hand it is seriously underwhelming, so who knows what to do with that?
-Flying should probably resist itself, being that herbivorous birds can outmanoeuvre carnivorous birds (who tend to favour grounded prey).
-Bug is a tricky one. Since various species of bugs feed on other bugs, but most prey have other defence mechanisms.
-Fighting should resist itself, since what fighters do you know (boxers, sumo wrestlers, karate film stars, even the bouncers in town) can't defend themselves from aggressive attacks?