What did you NOT like about Sun&Moon?

[~ Blazing White Yang]

A few other things that have started to bug me.

- I thought I liked the Festival Plaza as a Join Avenue successor at first, but...My shops are going nowhere :/ It seems like Sophocles gives you new shops at random? And nothing levels up like the Join Avenue services gradually did as you pointed more people in their direction. Alternatively, talking to people hasn't gotten me very far since a-lot of Festival Coins are often needed to set up anything worthwhile...I think the progression and utility was generally more reliable in Join Avenue.

- Fishing is weird. The limited spots kinda discourages me from doing it at all, and having one rod for everything messes with the range of encounters. 9/10 I've only gotten Magikarp :[ I think some kind of bait mechanic or alternate settings for the rod would've been great if they wanted to streamline it all into one Key Item.

EDIT:

- Finding Hidden Abilities is a pain in the tail now. I've been meaning to get a Galvanize Geodude, but the process is so cumbersome compared to Gen 6...The Friend Safari made HA Pokemon readily available, and DexNav chaining made searches more engaging on top of giving details before you even started the Battle. I'd usually start seeing Egg Moves and Hidden Abilities around the 10th or 12th encounter, so it wasn't too bad. The new SOS system is really poor alternative to finding rare Pokemon. You have to wait until the Pokemon calls up the one that you're looking for, so you keep using Skill Swap or Trace or whatever in the hopes of finding them while fighting off the ones you don't want at the same time. Even then, you can't see their IVs like you could in ORAS until you catch them...

 

[NoirCore]

A few other things that have started to bug me.

- I thought I liked the Festival Plaza as a Join Avenue successor at first, but...My shops are going nowhere :/ It seems like Sophocles gives you new shops at random? And nothing levels up like the Join Avenue services gradually did as you pointed more people in their direction. Alternatively, talking to people hasn't gotten me very far since a-lot of Festival Coins are often needed to set up anything worthwhile...I think the progression and utility was generally more reliable in Join Avenue.

- Fishing is weird. The limited spots kinda discourages me from doing it at all, and having one rod for everything messes with the range of encounters. 9/10 I've only gotten Magikarp :[ I think some kind of bait mechanic or alternate settings for the rod would've been great if they wanted to streamline it all into one Key Item.

For the Plaza, are you participating in the events that show up at the bottom screen when connected to the Internet? They get you much more FC just for talking to people and/or answering correct questions within some minutes. Type matchup test events are especially popular and easy to do.

 

[godiego]

But at least there would be less Kanto pandering and more in-game continuity.

okay, but do you really know what pandering is though?

 

[Alola]

okay, but do you really know what pandering is though?

It's ambiguous if you're going to inform me on a definition I am well aware of or give me an even better example of pandering in the game.

 

[Almonds]

Out of all the things I could mention, there is but one thing that has been a glaring annoyance to me.
...
...
...
KANTO GLORIFICATION!!!

While SM isn't as bad of an offender as XY, the Kanto Mons take up most of the dex... AGAIN! I get that this is the 20th anniversary and I get that Kanto started it all, but seriously, I've had enough! I'm to the point where I can't even LOOK at a Kanto Pokemon and not feel the need to hate it. This goes toward Alolan forms as well. They could've spent more time making new Pokemon vs. making Alolan forms, or at least make the Alolan forms not be Kanto Mons only. To put the cherry on top, the native Alola Pokemon (new Mons) are grossly outnumbered again nearly 2:1 (I don't truly count UBs as Pokemon, so that cuts the number of new Mons down even further). But I've had enough of Kanto. We've gotten 6 games as of late that already started the Kanto glorification (XY, GO, Virtual Console RBY), and once again Kanto overtakes another region. It's gone on long enough, and I'm outright sick of it. What's worse is that not only do the Kanto Mons outnumber the new ones, but the new ones are rarer compared to the either old or rehashed Kanto Mons. I'm almost willing to forgive GF for any other gripes I have because they're minor compared to this. But the fact that Kanto once again overpowers and outnumbers the newer Pokemon and takes over the region again is the main thing I hate about SM.

Don't get me wrong, I love the games. They're the best games since BW, but the fact that Kanto and its Pokemon are STILL the focus, even in a totally different and exotic region, it drags down the level of potential the games can offer. Everything else I can pretty much forgive, as those gripes are minor in comparison, but the fact that we still can't get away from Kanto to this day is what jerks my chain. Enough is enough, GF. Stop shoving the Kanto Mons in our face and give the new guys a bit more love and attention, as they're supposed to be the focus of a new gen, not the really old ones. Honestly, that's one of the reasons I love BW: you were forced to start from scratch and work with ONLY the new Pokemon. You had no older Pokemon to fall back on, so you had to work your way up with the beautiful abundance that Unova provided. But that's what gets me the most: Kanto glorification all over again, shafting the new guys once again in favor of the not-so-golden-oldies. Everything else is minor compared to that. That's my 2 cents.

When I learned about the Alolan Nugget Bridge I wondered if GF couldn't come up with something else and had to resort to another Kanto feature. It's not bad or anything but why did it have to be another Nugget Bridge?

 

[Kisu]

Exactly to me BW were the 1st games since red/blue that gave me the feeling of true Adventure,and it was because you only faced new pokemon.

Learning who's what type and having no idea who evolves,or how they do

It was truly like playing a new fresh game to me,SM and moon didn't need to do that but like you said everywhere I go it's rattata and old Mon but impossible to find alola Mon.

Coulda switched it up and had the alola Mon in your face and the older Mon rarer or at least a variety,only 300 Mon in this game and when you take out all the alola mons and evolutions your basically fighting the same handful of Pokemon everywhere you go

Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk

 

[godiego]

It's ambiguous if you're going to inform me on a definition I am well aware of or give me an even better example of pandering in the game.

pandering, or really fanservice, is not a benign, un-impactful reference that at least has some sort of sensibility. it's straight-up dumb to say that Heahea and Malie are pandering because it at least makes sense. a real example of pandering? Red and Blue being the bosses of the Battle Tree. another example? Cynthia.

 

[Alola]

pandering, or really fanservice, is not a benign, un-impactful reference that at least has some sort of sensibility. it's straight-up dumb to say that Heahea and Malie are pandering because it at least makes sense. a real example of pandering? Red and Blue being the bosses of the Battle Tree. another example? Cynthia.

First of all, it is unnecessary and rude to insult someone's opinion who differs from your own, just to get your point across. That is "straight-up dumb."
Secondly, I didn't say both cities were the only examples of pandering-I included them in an excellent point @CynthiaLover made about the total amount of Kanto pandering in the games. Thirdly, your syntax about your pandering definition is hard to follow let alone understand. Pandering is a synonym for indulging, and having a quarter of Alola's cities being based off of Kanto and Johto influence (in addition to all Kanto-regional variants, Red & Blue as you obviously pointed out, more Kanto mons than Alola mons in the dex, Lillie going to Kanto, the main character coming from Kanto, etc. etc.) clearly illustrates a certain indulgence to Kanto. They could have easily said those cities were designed/founded by people from different regions (and respectively design them as so), but they did not.

 

[godiego]

Secondly, I didn't say both cities were the only examples of pandering-I included them in an excellent point CynthiaLover made about the total amount of Kanto pandering in the games.

and that individual is wrong too. casual references to Kanto, such as, say, the general high occurrence of Pokemon from Kanto is not pandering because it's nothing new. Kanto almost always (exception being Gen V, although a chunk of Unovans are built off of concepts that Gen I did so) makes up either the largest generation included or the second largest generation. it seems even sillier to complain about the high number of Kanto Pokemon when they're not even readily featured all that much. with the exception of Faba and Youngster Tristan off the top of my head, every Totem as well as every major trainer in the main campaign uses a fairly diverse team (eg., Lusamine's team is Gens 1, 3, 4, 5, and 7) as well as an ace/signature 'mon from or introduced in Alola.

Thirdly, your syntax about your pandering definition is hard to follow let alone understand.

let me make it clearer: 1) it's wouldn't be pandering, it's just fanservice; 2) a casual reference that is at least sensible (eg., in the case of Alola's cities it's a direct reference to the impact Japanese and other East Asian immigrants have had on the development of Hawaii) is not fanservice or even pandering; 3) it is fanservice when the primary reason for choosing a certain character, theme, or whatever is essentially nonsensical beyond "bitches gonna eat it up" (again, good example being Red and Blue appearing, Cynthia, and perhaps Lillie going to Kanto although there's at least some Actual Symbolic Shit and some plot connection so eh).

Pandering is a synonym for indulging,

you are aware that both pandering and indulging are words with negative connotation, right? saying it's pandering is stupid silly when there's nothing patently wrong with other than making some fans salty that it's not their region being referenced.

and having a quarter of Alola's cities being based off of Kanto and Johto influence (in addition to all Kanto-regional variants, Red & Blue as you obviously pointed out, more Kanto mons than Alola mons in the dex, Lillie going to Kanto, the main character coming from Kanto, etc. etc.) clearly illustrates a certain indulgence to Kanto.

even including some of the dubious ones (ie., Alolan forms, Kanto 'mon quantity), that's not even a whole lot. seems to be a bit extra of people to getting their knickers in a knot of a relatively small number of Kanto nudges, especially since they never seemed to get worked up over other blatant fanservice (paging Cynthia).

They could have easily said those cities were designed/founded by people from different regions (and respectively design them as so), but they did not.

they could have easily done tons of other things. ultimately Kanto and Johto is a smarter reference to make given the historical relevance that both Kanto and Kansai have had on Japan. lowkey this just seems very "i'm upset because they didn't reference the region i wanted them to" (or at least left it ambiguous so i could pretend) rather than an Actual Flaw of the lore. (which is reflected by your original comment anyways.)

 

[TechSkylander1518]

casual references to Kanto, such as, say, the general high occurrence of Pokemon from Kanto is not pandering because it's nothing new. Kanto almost always (exception being Gen V, although a chunk of Unovans are built off of concepts that Gen I did so) makes up either the largest generation included or the second largest generation. it seems even sillier to complain about the high number of Kanto Pokemon when they're not even readily featured all that much.

A large number of Pokemon being from Kanto isn't a "casual" thing, especially if they outnumber new Pokemon. And even when previous version had a large number of Kanto Pokemon, they still included a large number of Pokemon from other regions as well-There are very few Hoenn Pokemon, and even less from any other region. And that was talked about by CynthiaLover and Alola wasn't them being featured by trainers, it was that they take up most of the Dex of the region-the problem isn't what appears in a particular moment, but how they have a stronger general presence than most other Pokemon. After all, you only battle a trainer so many times, but you always encounter plenty more Pokemon in the wild.

lowkey this just seems very "i'm upset because they didn't reference the region i wanted them to" (or at least left it ambiguous so i could pretend)

It's never a good idea to assume someone else's perspective, especially given that Alola never mentions any region that they'd prefer be referenced.

Personally, I completely agree that it makes total sense to include the reference in the cities, but the Kanto Pokemon being so common really kept me from enjoying any of the new Pokemon. Very few Pokemon actually made it on my team because I took four Kanto Pokemon I already knew to be good. I very rarely ventured into places to try to find new Pokemon because I would usually encounter a Pokemon I was already familiar with-the graveyards always had Ghastly, the water surfaces always had Tentacool, the fishing spots always had Magikarp (and while I did manage to fish out some other Pokemon, that tended to be after I found out where they would be from an NPC or a guide-there wasn't usually any trial and error on my part because it didn't seem fun to go through 50 Magikarp) Obviously, my choices were a major factor in this, and I don't intend for my experience to represent the general population, I'm just giving it as an example of having so many Pokemon that people are already familiar with keeps newer Pokemon out of the spotlight.

 

[godiego]

A large number of Pokemon being from Kanto isn't a "casual" thing

casual as in it has no significant impact on the lore. things that don't have a real impact on the lore (ie., casual): Heahea City being founded by trainers from Kanto and Johto, Kanto having lots of Pokemon (some of those being Alolan introduced lumped in with them) in Alola. things that aren't casual because they do have an impact on the lore: Red and Blue being the heads of the Battle Tree, Lillie leaving for Kanto.

There are very few Hoenn Pokemon, and even less from any other region. And that was talked about by CynthiaLover and Alola wasn't them being featured by trainers, it was that they take up most of the Dex of the region-the problem isn't what appears in a particular moment, but how they have a stronger general presence than most other Pokemon. After all, you only battle a trainer so many times, but you always encounter plenty more Pokemon in the wild.

and this just seems to be a sort of disconnect between Game Freak and some of its Western audience. in a pre-release interview, Masuda and Ohmori commented that they don't really see Pokemon as being from [Region]. so it's entirely possible that in development, seeing all those Pokemon doesn't necessarily register to them as "wow that's a lot of Kanto." and even then how do you handle a multi-generational family like Magmar? then the other side to that is we just don't know how Pokedex development goes. how do they decide which families to include? do they pull out of a hat? we know by now there must be some VGC considerations since Alola has six out of the eight pseudo-legendaries accessible (seven, if you include Island Scan Deino), which was also something done in Kalos.

It's never a good idea to assume someone else's perspective, especially given that Alola never mentions any region that they'd prefer be referenced.

aside from the fact that in a previous post they mention that Heahea should've founded by trainers from all regions with a sort of emphasis on Sinnoh because "it's above Kanto" (parsing here) and that that decision would result in less Kanto pandering and more in-game continuity (the latter being not necessarily true). it's not good to assume of course, but then i don't think i have to here.

but the Kanto Pokemon being so common really kept me from enjoying any of the new Pokemon. Very few Pokemon actually made it on my team because I took four Kanto Pokemon I already knew to be good. I very rarely ventured into places to try to find new Pokemon because I would usually encounter a Pokemon I was already familiar with-the graveyards always had Ghastly, the water surfaces always had Tentacool, the fishing spots always had Magikarp (and while I did manage to fish out some other Pokemon, that tended to be after I found out where they would be from an NPC or a guide-there wasn't usually any trial and error on my part because it didn't seem fun to go through 50 Magikarp) Obviously, my choices were a major factor in this, and I don't intend for my experience to represent the general population, I'm just giving it as an example of having so many Pokemon that people are already familiar with keeps newer Pokemon out of the spotlight.

of course that's also subjective and dependent on choices. i personally had no issues making a team that was predominantly (if not entirely, if you include Alolan forms) Alolan without even trying and i didn't even feel as if Alolan Pokemon were kept out of the spotlight given that virtually every major character/boss had one. so...there's that.

 

[TechSkylander1518]

casual as in it has no significant impact on the lore. things that don't have a real impact on the lore (ie., casual): Heahea City being founded by trainers from Kanto and Johto, Kanto having lots of Pokemon (some of those being Alolan introduced lumped in with them) in Alola. things that aren't casual because they do have an impact on the lore: Red and Blue being the heads of the Battle Tree, Lillie leaving for Kanto.

I see, what I consider casual is pretty different-I would consider a casual impact something that affected less players in general. The position that Red and Blue have (and even Cynthia, given her many appearances) definitely makes them stand out higher in the lore, but not every player is totally interested in the lore. I personally consider wild encounters to be less casual than the Battle Tree because while not everyone is going to try out the battle tree (or even make it all the way if they do), it's pretty much a guarantee that players will encounter some Pokemon in the wild.

and this just seems to be a sort of disconnect between Game Freak and some of its Western audience. in a pre-release interview, Masuda and Ohmori commented that they don't really see Pokemon as being from [Region]. so it's entirely possible that in development, seeing all those Pokemon doesn't necessarily register to them as "wow that's a lot of Kanto." and even then how do you handle a multi-generational family like Magmar? then the other side to that is we just don't know how Pokedex development goes. how do they decide which families to include? do they pull out of a hat? we know by now there must be some VGC considerations since Alola has six out of the eight pseudo-legendaries accessible (seven, if you include Island Scan Deino), which was also something done in Kalos.

This may just be my differing interpretation, but it seems to me that they mean that they don't see Pokemon as having their habitats specifically in one region, not that they don't seem them as being connected to a specific generation. (I think I might have muddled my point as well by calling them "Kanto Pokemon" rather than "Generation 1 Pokemon"-my apologies for that) It definitely makes sense for worldbuilding to not tie down Pokemon to any specific region, but I don't think they'd just ignore what games Pokemon originally appeared in-it wouldn't be good to just repeat all the Pokemon of a certain region.

aside from the fact that in a previous post they mention that Heahea should've founded by trainers from all regions with a sort of emphasis on Sinnoh because "it's above Kanto" (parsing here) and that that decision would result in less Kanto pandering and more in-game continuity (the latter being not necessarily true). it's not good to assume of course, but then i don't think i have to here.

It seemed to me that they meant that Sinnoh should have been included because of its proximity, not because they preferred Sinnoh especially. (Though I do have trouble discerning people's meaning sometimes, and I realize that I'm leaning towards putting words in their mouth at this point, so I'll step back)

 

[Steel_Justice]

The low amount of new pokemon.
No more dexnav. It's not fun being at the mercy of low encounter rates and bad rng when you just want to grab a better nature or ability.
Festival Plaza. Not only is it needlessly tedious to turn it into something useful but it fails to be even half of what the pss and join avenue was.
Pickup. Trying for weeks to get the destiny knot since needing a competitive team to breed a competitive team is a load of crap. Pickup at least had some consistency in the past when it was based on level.
Hidden abilities are extremely tedious and needlessly hard to get especially since most of them aren't obvious when they hit the field forcing you to use moves like entrainment over and over again. If ivs are guaranteed after certain intervals then Hidden abilities should have been too or at least make them more common at higher chains.
Starter Z-moves. They should have had useful secondary effects instead of being slightly stronger than the generic version. Alolan Raichu and Mew have useful effects for their unique Z-moves why not the starters?
The bad stat distributions for most pokemon. You don't solve a steep power creep by making stuff after it weaker especially if the old stuff is still around. They don't call it aslowla for nothing.
No National Dex. It's not like they had that many new pokemon to write entries for. This laziness needs to be patched after Pokebank updates.
Grubbin and Crabrawler are useless in-game. Evolving only when you reach the last Island and the Pokemon league is dumb and poorly thought out. Vikavolt and Crabominable aren't even worth it which makes this a whole lot worse.
Grinding Battle Points is more tedious than ever. At least the maison had the first 20 battles be easy enough to be beaten with a story made team to grind bp for the harder battles. But his sends you into pseudo super battles from the start. And why still only 3 pokemon for singles? Oh right so the AI can rng perfect counter teams featuring bank legends and unavailable megas where were these overpowered fools when ultra beasts were tearing the region apart?
No Alolan forms for non gen 1 pokemon. Them having little to outright no stat differences from the original is a bit disappointing too.
Poni Island should have had more things to do than be where ultra space is.
Mina, Kahili and the last trial seem like after thoughts. They could have don better.

 

[King Robert]

Alright, whose bright idea at Game Freak was it to let players get a Lucky Egg AFTER they become the champion?

 

[KrisiChiki]

There were a few things that bothered such as removing the PSS, not being able to sit on chairs, no DexNav, little variety in clothes choices, lack of encounter themes for different Trainer classes etc. but in the end I can overlook these things because they aren't as bothersome as... Kanto glorification. I won't comment on the plot because Pokemon was never that great in that department, though I personally liked the story a lot.

I like Kanto and I grew up with Gen I like many others, but I bought Moon for Gen VII, not to have Kanto shoved down my throat again. I feel like they've crossed the line now because I'm on the verge of actually disliking anything Kanto and Gen I, which is really sad. It doesn't help that XY had a considerable amount of Gen I pandering as well.

Gen I may have started Pokemon, but it was the contribution of each subsequent Gen that made this franchise last 20 years. I want to celebrate all regions, not just glorify Kanto.


PS. Tropius was prefect at a Ride Pokemon instead of Charizard. Actually, why is there no Tropius at all in Alola? It fits so well...

 

[King Robert]

No StreetPass.

Really, Game Freak?

 

[PinkIceFox]

I dunno, I can't hate the lack of street pass features. Especially considering the fact that I will likely never street pass anyone due to where I live. No street pass features = no content locked away behind crap I have no control over.

 

[Lysson]

The fact that you STILL can't rename traded pokemon, and GF still seem to be proud of that.
Well, they shouldn't be proud if I were to show them a image of a Lillipup's name that I got off of wondertrade today.

Spoiler: Sorta rude name

It was called '8======D'. Yeah you know what that is. UGHR.

 

[Kharixi]

Another thing I'll mention is

Spoiler

how Gladion says he's not your friend... and you can't say anything in return. I mean, it's fine for Gladion to have his own opinion on it, but it is annoying that you can't say "Yes, we're friends!" or "Nah, we're not friends".

 

[King Robert]

Well...I really do like to brag about my accomplishments via StreetPass...like my awesome Secret Base in Alpha Sapphire. Or getting all the furniture from Wisp in Animal Crossing New Leaf Welcome amiibo, thus bragging that I have the Villager amiibo from Super Smash Bros.