What do you think about the Hoenn Region?

[*Leeney*]

This is my first time starting a thread and I'm hoping to add more threads if this one is successful.

Anyway, Hoenn had the arrival of two new partners for Ash( May and Max). Brock returns. Team Magma and Team Aqua were the new main villians of the series. Also the beauty of Pokemon Contests were introduced in the series and don't forget the Battle Frontier. With that said, What do you think about the Hoenn Region?

 

[Cybersai]

It was alright. I always saw Hoenn as a major improvement over Johto in a wide variety of areas.

Hoenn's only real major flaw was the way the Groudon/Kyorge episodes were handled, but aside from that fiasco, the rest of it was pretty entertaining.

I liked Ash's Hoenn Pokemon, loved the fact that he evolved most of his team for the first time. He didn't get all the starters for once, and Ash finally had a team of tough evolved Pokemon rather than small and cute Pokemon. Ash really matured as a character this region, he acted a lot more confident this saga than in the previous.

May actually got to go through character development, Contests were a great addition, and I liked TR's new Pokemon. Drew and Harley were entertaining, and I liked a lot of the fillers.


It was far from perfect, but the writers did a lot of stuff that region that became a staple of the series in all the following series.

 

[JB88]

At first I didn't like it. Mostly because I didn't like the Pokemon that were introduced after the end of Generation II. May and Max were also other reasons. But by the middle of the saga, seeing Ash with a new slate and different people was actually welcoming.

 

[ShadowDeeps]

I feel it's okay at best. I just find most of the Pokémon of that region uninteresting, redundant, flat, and insipid in comparison to earlier generation Pokémon (not to mention a lack of personality through my view, but I feel about that way about most Pokémon past the Johto seasons), which dampens the impact for me in a way. Though, I do like that it was less predictable than Johto's filler material, even if I was never (and still am not) a fan of the contests. I liked that Ash began to lapse into a certain kind of maturity he hadn't quite before, but I do think the dub line in the Mewtwo special began to set in stone for me back in the Johto seasons that Ash had grown into someone both deeply compassionate, passionate, heroic, and very mature (whether this was in the original Japanese version or not escapes my kernel of intellect): "Do you always need a reason to help somebody?"

Anyway, not to be too off-topic (much less at all) to the thread in question. And though I didn't feel May or Max was anyplace near as memorable as Misty and I didn't immensely enjoy that Brock stayed just to... do what he always does in such overabundance, I don't think May is a character that merits jeering. I just don't like the way she was justified (as being a good or bad character depends upon such in my view). Even then, I've seen people complain that May was dumb. You know what? This is my rebuttal to that - "perfection" (however one wants to define such a bemusing conundrum) is the enemy of "completion". I liked that she was flawed. It gave her room to grow and made her human in nature (IMHO). As for Max... he was bratty, but again, that's a flaw (IMO) and it leaves room for improvement. Rivals.... Harley was.... interesting in a way. Drew was just another Gary through my eyes. I never liked Morrison much. Tyson and his Meowth... I felt they were good. My other qualm would be that it became too much of a penchant for gym battles.

As for the Groudon and Kyogre episodes, I liked them a lot (despite how quickly Groudon and Kyogre's bout ended.... or it was expedited, if that's a more polite word, amongst other peeves). They easily rank amongst some of my favorites (plus, the episodes with Team Magma and Team Aqua, regardless of how inappropriate their beginnings and endings may be, or rather what the plot points may stem from in those episodes and how said plot flows). As do episodes like "Me, Myself, and Time", which are different and transcend the expected "good vs. evil" episodes (which I do find rather black and white). I still like the Johto seasons more at day's end, and I liked the Orange Islands and first season a lot more (the first season being my personal favorite). But I didn't feel Hoenn was that bad. I'll even go as far as to say that I enjoyed it by a notable number of accounts. I just feel it had immense room for improving upon select aspects.

 

[Kasumi]

For me, it was actually dull and boring.

And before people jump my throat saying it is because Kasumi left and Haruka came in, it's not the reason. What I enjoyed most were the contest episodes and a few fillers like the Spinda episode, "Wishcash and Ash" and the giant Claydol episode. But the rest of the saga pretty much bored me to tears. And don't even get me started on the Kyogre/Groudon fiasco.

 

[MetaRobo]

It's the series that actually got me interested in the anime, because the characters developed so much. Ash was no longer the bratty kid from the first season that won only by luck, and that's a plus. Treecko, who evolved into Sceptile, had an awesome personality and it actually underwent meaningful training. Torchic also was awesome in evolving from the clumsy, incompetent bird into a very skilled Contest Pokemon (with that fireball appeal in Lilycove still being its Epic Win moment for me). Speaking of which, according to the fanbase, May is either the most awesome thing to happen to the show or a skunky incompetent dimwit. Okay, I didn't think much of her at the beginning because the whole complaining about walking to Oldale thing gave me a fairly bad impression, and of course, her calling Treecko ugly (imagine, they made a character fueled by a similar grudge), but she eventually won me over with her active role in contests (which was particularly interesting as female characters tend to have more sideline roles in the shonen genre), her cheerful optimism, and her heartwarming moments with Max and Pokemon. I say that regardless of your opinion of the character, May was overall a positive influence on the show. Despite the complaints of filler that plague the show as a whole, I do recall quite a few of them being quite fun and memorable, even if it lagged in the Challenge/Battle transition.

One more quip: I find it amusing that the dubbers named the series after the Game Boy Advance, like many games for the platform.

 

[PDL]

The Hoenn saga is so-so in terms of writing in my opinion.

It was handled far better then Jotho, and DP is being handled better then it.

It was a step in the right direction.

The Pokémon themselves however, were some of the best designed in my opinion. Especially the Ralts line and Mawile.

 

[Mooites]

I LOVE Hoenn. Actually, for pretty much every reason Scott just said. So yeah, great season all together.

I watch the dub. And In Hoenn, the dub was very sarcastic and had a lot of verbal jokes. Not the cute humor from the original series, but not serious like DP.

I dont know what to say that hasnt already been said... Besides that Hoenn is amazing!

 

[GreatLiver]

I would have to agree with the majority and say that Hoenn was relatively good, but nothing that blew my pants off. It came right after Johto, so in comparison it was amazing, but after seeing what the writers have been able to do with DP you know that it could have been better. It was a step in the right direction away from Johto, and the fact that we had more to do than just watch Ash go to a gym ever dozen or so episodes was refreshing.

I also kinda think that this is a place in the anime where they probably picked up a large audience base, both because of young people and because it was simply better than Johto. Johto I feel lost a lot of viewers just because nothing happened for a good chunk of it, and I would probably have to include myself here as well. I really stopped watching the show until about the Silver Conference. I think that what also can kind of be considered the second generation of fans picked up during Hoenn. The kids that weren't around for the initial success of pokemon and the original run of the anime got to the age where they'd start watching it. So as for that I'd say props to Hoenn just because I think it was good enough that people would start watching it and keep watching it.

The end of Hoenn I think is where the writing like we now see in DP started to pick up. I would have to say that I really enjoyed the like half dozen episodes on Izabe Island just because even though they were fillers they were refreshing. The Ever Grande Conference or whatever the league was called had some really good battles and also rivals with more development than just "they're strong or have new pokemon"

Overall I think that Hoenn was a generally good arc and one that really set the foundation for the anime after it.

 

[Pokemaster Justin]

It felt like Johto but with different clothing. I dunno the anime seems the same after Orange Islands. Hoenn had some really good quality episodes though - I love the Do I hear a Ralts...one of the best in the series IMO.

D/P actually is shaking it up a bit, Hoenn to me felt like Johto II.

 

[Linkpre]

I LOVE Hoenn. Actually, for pretty much every reason Scott just said. So yeah, great season all together.

I watch the dub. And In Hoenn, the dub was very sarcastic and had a lot of verbal jokes. Not the cute humor from the original series, but not serious like DP.

I dont know what to say that hasnt already been said... Besides that Hoenn is amazing!

I can pretty much agree with this. I loved Hoenn's Pokemon and the group of Ash, May, Max and Brock. They had a good relationship and it didn't really seem like all they cared about was contests/gym battles. There were episodes where they just did normal stuff, like Brock and May shopping, or missing a boat because they had gotten up late. It was little things like that that helped me really enjoy Hoenn.

That's kinda my "problem" with Sinnoh. I mean sure, the writers have really gotten better at making a ongoing plot and I love the Ash and Paul rivalry, but I'm not really feeling the humor used in these seasons. Maybe it's the way PUSA writes the scripts or something.

I also don't really like the relationships btwn Ash Brock and Dawn now. At the beginning of Sinnoh, I thought they were alright, but they've gotten really boring the last couple episodes. Unlike the Kanto/Johto trio and the Hoenn group, they only seem focused on gym battles/contests and that makes them feel very basic in a way.

Heh, sorry for the long post.

 

[sailorsailormoon]

those episodes were good overall, Ash starting with Pikachu, Mays character development, Pokemon Contest sub-plot. The only thing i disliked is the the team magma and team aqua climax and the skipped earthquake episode and the strange story behind the Misty and Togepi filler (eps. 44-45). i give it a 85

 

[Chatsy]

Hoenn was, during it all, really great, fresh and new.
However, the episodes didn't sweep the floor underneath me nor do I feel drawn to re-watch the episodes. That's how I judge whether or not something was good -> If it's something I'd watch again, then it's good. If I can settle with watching it once it's mediocre. If I regretted ever having watched it, it's really bad.

So I'd say overall Hoenn was mediocre.

Albeit some episodes I'd love to watch again, but that's mostly the episodes by Tokuda and Tamagawa I'm thinking about.

 

[Rhapsody]

From a purely anime-standpoint, I think it's a little too easy for people to stand up and call Hoenn to be mediocre at this point.

Hoenn, especially at the time, marked a departure from the standard formula that had been working for quite a long while. Despite the complaints that we frequently see about the Johto seasons, I find it difficult to say that it was so bad that it would've caused the series to plummet in terms of popularity. Rather, there was a number of factors that lead to that, including the maturation of the 'generation' that grew up with the show.

Regardless, I personally believe that the writers could've continued on as they were without much change and still have a successful anime. However, they recognized that a change would be a good thing, even if it was a risky move. We are all aware as to how poorly the departure of Brock and the arrival of Tracy was received during the Orange Islands. Instead of keeping Misty, a character that was arguably stagnating, the writers chose to replace her with a completely new character and introduce a new method of interacting with Pokemon in the forms of Contests. While we now know that May was relatively well-received, it was entirely possible that she would've been completely shunned instead.

Advanced Generation took some risks with the hope that the fans would enjoy it - and it seems that they made the correct decision. While we can stand here and say that the Hoenn Saga is not nearly as good as the Sinnoh saga, that's inevitable. Sinnoh is an evolution of the ideas and weaknesses that were present in Hoenn - it's the natural improvement based on the fan's input and the writers experience.

So, in my opinion, I can't say that Hoenn was revolutionary, but it was gutsy and ballsy and paved the way for even better things down the road.

 

[pharaohyami5000]

Hoenn Region was all right. My complaints though were that the 4 never travelled everywhere in the region (Mt. Pyre for one), Ash had no rival until after the 5th Ribbon or close to the Grand Festival/PKM League I should say, and their villians got too few screen time episodes plus their final meeting was poorly done.

What they have done right are new characters in the group, their character developments, PKM Contests instead of some unneeded fillers that do not display a new monster(s), and monsters having great personalities. Plus, most of them evolved gaining a lot of spotlight in some episodes.

 

[Gligarman]

I've only seen about 1/3 of Hoenn and I like what I've seen so far. I saw the first 40 episodes and then the the PUSA episodes of Battle Frontier. Although this season contains the dumbest episode in the history of the series, A Time Traveling Haruka!!, overall it is an improvement over Johto. One thing that I really liked is that Satoshi wasn't the only one to get the starters. I like that they divided them up between three of them. I was also very impressed with the animation in Hoenn since Diamond and Pearl has that weird frame rate issue.

 

[Midnightmoon602]

For me Hoenn was great. it was different to Kanto and Johto. contests were introduced, a new girl was added into the anime, and the BF was in as well.

it was very new anf fresh. now im watching the DP series for some reason its like watching Hoenn all over again since we have May and Dawn doing nearly the same thing.

Overall: Hoenn was good. something different at that time where Sinnoh wasn't made.

 

[Weedle Mchairybug]

Well, I can't really comment much on Hoenn, as I barely even watched it. However, I think that, should I watch it on a regular basis, I might grow sick of it.

I mean, one of the factors is May (with her physique and especially her attitude/voice, even IF Misty still remained on the show, I still would have disliked her with a passion.), and Misty Leaving, but that isn't the only factor.

There's also the fact that Ash and Brock were in Hoenn as well, thus making Misty's removal under allegations of stality even more pointless, considering how, because of the majority's views on Johto, they should have removed Ash and especially Brock as well.

Also, most of the Gym Battles in that saga were terrible. I mean, Ash should at least have some challenges against the Gym Leaders with virtually every pokemon on his team (I mean, Besides Pikachu, since it isn't new). However, he won via one hit KO's and Deus Ex Machina by most of his team (which includes Pikachu, unfortunately, since, in the Roxanne battle, the reason it won is because the Writers decided to have Pikachu recover itself by allowing Nosepass's Hyper Beam to hit it, when that move doesn't even recover a Pokemon, much less an Electric type. and don't even get me started on it's battles on Wattson and Tate/Lisa). I mean, You can see Chaosblazer's comments on the Hoenn battles in the Ash just being handed the Gym badges thread, because I agree with him.

In fact, the mere fact that he actually had to rematch one of the Gym Leaders as well as his ending up with the same rank as Johto is enough to show that the Hoenn GLs, in the very least, are like JJM in terms of strength.

Also, the only thing that was introduced in regards to contests was the fact that they encompassed an entire Arc now. Pokemon Contests (albeit in one episode intervals) have actually been around since Princess vs. Princess, so really, Contests in themselves aren't really new to begin with.

Also, to Rhapsody, even if the maturation of the audience was one of the causes, it definitely wasn't the main cause. I mean, first off, the new audience would probably have raised the ratings, and yet, it didn't. Heck, Dogasu said in his comparison for "The Princess and the Togepi" that they probably made had Misty appear in that arc in a desparate attempt to boost ratings, which implied that the removal of Misty was probably one of the big reasons, if not THE reason why they had a low rated season. I'll even post a quote as proof:

The whole episode comes across as pandering to all the Kasumi fans out there, which is great if you love Kasumi and think Haruka should die a horrible death. For everyone else, it just seems like a sad attempt to boost ratings.

Well, I wouldn't exactly call it "sad", as Misty was a key asset to the show's beginning, but you get the idea.

Also, as I said, they also would have removed Brock after Johto if they truly felt that Misty should have been removed for stagnation. I mean, if they were willing to take the risk of removing one of the more popular characters on the Show (TRAdmin implied that Misty's popularity is 10X more popular than Brock.), then, Tracey incident or not, they could have tried to remove Brock again (especially since, contrary to popular belief, it's actually BROCK who got the short end of the stick, not Misty, as some of you like to claim.)

I can pretty much agree with this. I loved Hoenn's Pokemon and the group of Ash, May, Max and Brock. They had a good relationship and it didn't really seem like all they cared about was contests/gym battles. There were episodes where they just did normal stuff, like Brock and May shopping, or missing a boat because they had gotten up late. It was little things like that that helped me really enjoy Hoenn.

Little things that, unfortunately, unravel themselves by the end of AG, when May snubs Ash when she leaves (it was big talk when that episode aired in Japan). In fact, the only character who actually seemed to even be GRATEFUL for all Ash and everyone did for him was Max.

basically, that's my review.

 

[Kukisanban]

In my opinion, Hoenn was my least favourite place. I think that because I dislike May and Max it always put me of it. It's the only pokemon generation I made no effort to watch. I watched pokemom everyday in Kanto / Orange Islands / Johto but in Hoenn I didn't watch anywhere near as much, but Diamond and Pearl has me watching every day again. There was also only a few generation 3 pokemon that I loved.

 

[Rhapsody]

Note that I never once said that Kasumi's departure wasn't a cause of low ratings - in fact, I noted in my post that it was a relatively risky move by the writers. Her departure was going to inevitably piss some people off and they would stop watching. However, that crowd certainly wasn't the target crowd - most kids would continue to watch anyway. The people who stopped watching Pokemon when Kasumi left are people like you and I - the vast minority rather than the majority.

As for the Togepi episode, I'll agree that it was poorly done and probably done in a final attempt to get a slight boost in ratings. But I can't help but think that it was more of a nicety that allowed a few people a chance to see one of their favorite characters back in action, just as the recent Wallace Cup was a chance for Haruka fans to see Haruka again. Finally, that comment you quoted doesn't really count as proof - no offence to Dogasu, but that's an opinion, not a fact. You really shouldn't try and use it to justify your point.