Which of Goh’s Starters got done the dirtiest writing wise?

[Twilight-Kun]

Grookey's the single-most unlikable starter pokemon I have ever seen - its one episode of maturity/development (the errand one) has since been rendered non-canon since the lesson didn't stick and it kept being a @$^#$&#%$&#$%^@$&##%&^@$^#%^

Inteleon might as well have been fully-evolved when Go caught it for all the development it got as a sobble and drizzile

Cinderace was fine, but it's still a far cry from anything else the writers have done when writing a pokemon

 

[Enzo]

I guess that there's an argument to be held that, considering Goh's goal's sctructure, he would've eventually got all the three starters regardless...

But it still doesn't negates the fact that this is how the JN's writing team saw fit to present and showcase the Galarian trio: one car crash after the other.

I feel like that's particularly upsetting to me because I think that, up to this point, this is the first starter trio that I liked every single member of and every single stage of their lines. Out of all the 9 Pokémon that make up this set, I like every single one of them. But in every other, there's at least one stinker, be a single stage or even a whole line. And it's just... ugh. They really did everyone dirty.

Inteleon might as well have been fully-evolved when Go caught it for all the development it got as a sobble and drizzile

The simple reason why they didn't to that from the start is simply because Goh needed the Sobble and Drizzile entries. They got desesperate after realizing Inteleon is the popular starter and not Cinderace, like I'm 99,9% sure the higher ups thought it would be.

 

[Rainbow-Rain]

They got desesperate after realizing Inteleon is the popular starter and not Cinderace, like I'm 99,9% sure the higher ups thought it would be.

In all fairness Cinderace IS pretty popular

Just not as popular as they probably wanted it to be.

With Cinderace it was very VERY clear that they were trying hard to create a 2nd Greninja.

They paired up Cinderace alongside incredibly famous popular Pokemon like Lucario, Greninja and Pikachu.

They gave Cinderace Greninja's Hidden Ability

They made it the Face of Pokemon Unite.

The fact that the Japanese crowd would take an interest in Inteleon never really crossed their minds.

They really thought Inteleon and Rillaboom would be the Delphox and Chestnaught of their Generation

 

[Daren]

In all fairness Cinderace IS pretty popular

Just not as popular as they probably wanted it to be.

With Cinderace it was very VERY clear that they were trying hard to create a 2nd Greninja.

They paired up Cinderace alongside incredibly famous popular Pokemon like Lucario, Greninja and Pikachu.

They gave Cinderace Greninja's Hidden Ability

They made it the Face of Pokemon Unite.

The fact that the Japanese crowd would take an interest in Inteleon never really crossed their minds.

They really thought Inteleon and Rillaboom would be the Delphox and Chestnaught of their Generation

Reminds me of Zoroark likely being an attempt to recapture Lucario's lightning in a bottle.
You don't create an ensemble darkhorse, they happen by chance.

Honestly I have no idea why they thought "soccer player" would be seen as cooler than "James Bond".

 

[Enzo]

Honestly I have no idea why they thought "soccer player" would be seen as cooler than "James Bond".

Well, soccer is a very popular sport, the whole line is based off rabbits, which are super cute and popular by themselves, and the Fire starters do have tendencies of being generally well-liked by the community both based off looks/coolness and competitive viability (C'mon, Libero Cinderace exists solely cuz they wanted to replicate Protean Greninja). So yeah, Cinderace being thought of as the possible most popular by the marketing team is not exactly a shot in the dark, tbh.

But people prefered the suave water lizard spy, and TPCi got slapped across the face with a wooden board.

 

[Ghost Diplocaulus]

Reminds me of Zoroark likely being an attempt to recapture Lucario's lightning in a bottle.
You don't create an ensemble darkhorse, they happen by chance.

This might be presumptuous, but I get the feeling that it's precisely the fact that Zoroark and Cinderace were so blatant in their attempt to be the second Lucario and Greninja respectively that made them flop. It's arguably a subtler version of how the infamous Pikaclones tend to be somewhat divisive.

Honestly I have no idea why they thought "soccer player" would be seen as cooler than "James Bond".

I don't think it was the "soccer player" part that was expected to be a hit so much as the "cute and cool bunny rabbit" part, since mammalian animals are typically seen as more popular and marketable than reptiles. Of course, TPCi seems to have forgotten that this very franchise has many, many examples of reptilian designs who outshine the mammal designs in terms of popularity (most notably a certain orange dragon that was even the most shilled thing in the very same Generation that Cinderace and Inteleon debuted in, mind you), so they really shouldn't have assumed that Cinderace winning out over the other Galar starters in terms of popularity was guaranteed.

 

[Hidden Mew]

I don't really see how Cinderace was an attempt to copy Greninja. Zororak being an attempt to recreate Lucario's popularity is definitely clear, but I don't see it from the Cinderace and Greninja lines.

As for the topic at hand, I can't really fairly answer it when I haven't caught up with the series yet. As much as I'm disappointed that they didn't distribute the Galar starters, I'm also willing to see where they're going with Goh's starters before writing them off as being done completely dirty. I don't know how likely it is and people are probably going to be upset about this regardless for a few reasons, but there is still time for them to do something more with the Galar starters.

 

[Craiden]

Granted, this is all subjective, and for me, even though he had the best evolution episode of the other two, Sobble was probably treated the worst (but since when did the "how" evolution occurred really matter)? That said, while I like Grookey, I get the dislike, and the apparent disregard for episode 69, even though that was based off of a TV show, so it was more of a...shout out ordeal. Which brings me to Cinderace...and I don't get what most of you are on about. I can get not liking elements of the Scorbunny line, but to pretend that final forms typically...get more than Cinderace is rather odd. Also, as was mentioned above, while nothing special, Scorbunny/Raboot were fine, at the very least.

 

[Ghost Diplocaulus]

I don't really see how Cinderace was an attempt to copy Greninja. Zororak being an attempt to recreate Lucario's popularity is definitely clear, but I don't see it from the Cinderace and Greninja lines.

Mainly it's because Cinderace's Hidden Ability is just Protean under a different name plus the fact that they're both anthropomorphic animals based on a specific aspect of human culture (ninjas and football/soccer players), though admittedly that latter comparison is weak since all the starters have been heavily anthropomorphic since Gen 6.

That said, even if the Greninja comparisons are seen as weak, there's some circumstantial evidence implying that Cinderace was tailor-built to be "the popular one" among Galar's starters: it was given one of the most powerful Abilities in the game and it got two excellent Signature Moves when Rillaboom and Inteleon each only got one. It kinda gives the impression that someone in the dev team wanted the rabbit to be the strongest competitive starter at the very least.

 

[Rainbow-Rain]

Mainly it's because Cinderace's Hidden Ability is just Protean under a different name plus the fact that they're both anthropomorphic animals based on a specific aspect of human culture (ninjas and football/soccer players), though admittedly that latter comparison is weak since all the starters have been heavily anthropomorphic since Gen 6.

That said, even if the Greninja comparisons are seen as weak, there's some circumstantial evidence implying that Cinderace was tailor-built to be "the popular one" among Galar's starters: it was given one of the most powerful Abilities in the game and it got two excellent Signature Moves when Rillaboom and Inteleon each only got one. It kinda gives the impression that someone in the dev team wanted the rabbit to be the strongest competitive starter at the very least.

The fact that Cinderace got 2 Signature Moves is actually another thing it has in common with Greninja

Greninja also got two Signature moves. Water Shuriken and Mat Block

 

[DankOverlord]

It kinda gives the impression that someone in the dev team wanted the rabbit to be the strongest competitive starter at the very least.

Considering in Smogon it got banned to the Ubers tier for being too broken because of Protean's "horribly unbalanced on strong Pokemon" status they succeeded

 

[Unireon]

Greninja also got two Signature moves. Water Shuriken and Mat Block

Until they were made available to others, losing the uniqueness.

This won't be the case for Aceburn's since its Signature Moves are very tied to its very concept.

 

[Rainbow-Rain]

Reminds me of Zoroark likely being an attempt to recapture Lucario's lightning in a bottle.
You don't create an ensemble darkhorse, they happen by chance.

The also kinda reminds me of last Generation.

Remember how Incineroar was pushed heavily (even got into Smash Bros) while Primarina ended up becoming the most Popular Alola Starter in Japan despite the Popplio line getting absolutely nothing ?

(Speaking of Smash, I'm legitimately surprised Cinderace didn't get in that given how heavily TPCi kept pushing it [even more so than Incineroar]

At least when it came to Greninja, Lucario and Incineroar the copious amount of pushing they got stemmed primarily from the fact that the 3 of them were getting into Smash

With Cinderace, it now feels like they just heavily pushed it ahead of the other 2 Starters for no real reason other than simply because they wanted to

I'm not complaining that Cinderace didn't get in tho. Because I was rooting for Sora anyways lol)

 

[Hidden Mew]

Mainly it's because Cinderace's Hidden Ability is just Protean under a different name plus the fact that they're both anthropomorphic animals based on a specific aspect of human culture (ninjas and football/soccer players), though admittedly that latter comparison is weak since all the starters have been heavily anthropomorphic since Gen 6.

That said, even if the Greninja comparisons are seen as weak, there's some circumstantial evidence implying that Cinderace was tailor-built to be "the popular one" among Galar's starters: it was given one of the most powerful Abilities in the game and it got two excellent Signature Moves when Rillaboom and Inteleon each only got one. It kinda gives the impression that someone in the dev team wanted the rabbit to be the strongest competitive starter at the very least.

Both of those reasons seem pretty big stretches to me, especially when ninjas and football/soccer players aren't really similar. At least Lucario and Zoroark's designs were a bit more similar to each other.

The idea that they wanted Cinerace to be the strongest competitive starter and the most popular Galar starter sounds more reasonable to me. Not only because of its Hidden Ability and Signature Moves, but I'm sure that was the reason it was chosen to be Goh's partner Pokemon. Even as it evolved, they kept it on promotional posters and artwork for the series. I think that they assumed that Cinderace would be the poster child for Journeys and weren't expecting Sobble or Inteleon to become more popular.

 

[Ghost Diplocaulus]

Considering in Smogon it got banned to the Ubers tier for being too broken because of Protean's "horribly unbalanced on strong Pokemon" status they succeeded

Yeah, but the main point here is that Cinderace was probably given overpowered stuff because Game Freak assumed that'd help cement its status as the most popular Galar Starter. And sure, Cinderace is quite popular, but not as much as Inteleon, who ironically is the weakest of the Galar Starters competitively.

 

[Rainbow-Rain]

Yeah, but the main point here is that Cinderace was probably given overpowered stuff because Game Freak assumed that'd help cement its status as the most popular Galar Starter. And sure, Cinderace is quite popular, but not as much as Inteleon, who ironically is the weakest of the Galar Starters competitively.

I'm guessing Japan doesn't care as much about Competitive?

Ironically the Strongest of the 3 Galar Starters competitively is actually Rillaboom it's much less popular than Cinderace and Inteleon are.

Rillaboom is arguably even better than Cinderace is competitively but it is also the least marketed of the 3

 

[Unireon]

The monkey line is the ugliest of the three and Japan tends to favour either cuteness or being good/cool-looking regarding designs.

But alas, those are subjective concepts.

 

[Ghost Diplocaulus]

I'm guessing Japan doesn't care as much about Competitive?

To be fair it's not like Western fans choose our favorites based on competitive prowess either, as otherwise Charizard (possibly the most popular Pokemon in the West as well as arguably the weakest Kanto Starter competitively until it got its Megas) and the Eeveelutions (which are only okay at best in competitive formats) wouldn't be anywhere near as popular as they are while Heatran and Landorus (which are divisive at best) would be fandom darlings.

Ironically the Strongest of the 3 Galar Starters competitively is actually Rillaboom it's much less popular than Cinderace and Inteleon are.

Rillaboom is arguably even better than Cinderace is competitively but it is also the least marketed of the 3

I'm not so sure about that, though, since Cinderace is the one who got banned to Ubers while Rillaboom is just in OU.

 

[Rainbow-Rain]

To be fair it's not like Western fans choose our favorites based on competitive prowess either, as otherwise Charizard (possibly the most popular Pokemon in the West as well as arguably the weakest Kanto Starter competitively until it got its Megas) and the Eeveelutions (which are only okay at best in competitive formats) wouldn't be anywhere near as popular as they are while Heatran and Landorus (which are divisive at best) would be fandom darlings.


I'm not so sure about that, though, since Cinderace is the one who got banned to Ubers while Rillaboom is just in OU.

And of course we can't forget about Series Mascot Pikachu who's entire line is next to nonexistent Competitively lol

 

[Enzo]

Yeah, but the main point here is that Cinderace was probably given overpowered stuff because Game Freak assumed that'd help cement its status as the most popular Galar Starter. And sure, Cinderace is quite popular, but not as much as Inteleon, who ironically is the weakest of the Galar Starters competitively.

I vividly remember how people were thinking Inteleon was gonna be the brokest one in the competittive because of Snipe Shot before the Hidden Abilities were announced.

Then Libero Cinderace happened and the rabbit shot up to OU almost immediatly and is currently residing on Ubers.

And to finish it off, the first SWSH DLC dropped, and Grassy Glide was introduced... and people noticied it was a +1 priority move while in Grassy Terrain, and well... I'm gonna give you three chances to guess what Rillaboom's ability is. Btw, the gorilla has a base attack of 125 and gets STAB from it.

It's funny, really: Inteleon is the most popular one but got obliterated by it's siblings in the competitive.