Why do you guys want regular evolutions over megas

[Fairy Type Arceus]

That's probably one of the reasons why I like Mega Evolution: it isn't premanent. I like my Charizard and Steelix just fine the way they are even if I love their Mega Evos. The thing is, I like some Mega Evos even more than the originals and I wish they could stay like that permanently (Mega Houndoom comes to mind).

In hindsight, I kind of wish they limited Mega Evolution to Pokemon that evolve twice. I don't really understand why they had Mega Evolutions for those that don't evolve or those that only evolve once. I guess this would make those who don't want evolutions of their favorite pre-Gen VI Pokemon happy with that kind of compromise, but for those who didn't mind it or actually liked it, well, they kind of ruined the chances of Absol or Mawile getting a permanent evolution. That's just my guess. I am not saying they will never get permanent evos, I am just wondering how they would give them one at this point.

Absol actually looks like it could get a preevo, and Mawile... I don't see where they could go with her...

What could a pre evo possibly add to absol? It would be good for nothing other then dex filler

 

[Osprey]

They did release a game like that in 2002:

Pokémon Ruby and Sapphire Versions - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia

Whoops.

If they ever wanted to "fix" things like Eevee's way of evolving into Espeon/Umbreon, these were the games to do it in. They cut off all compatibility with the previous two Generations and essentially acted as a full-scale reboot for the franchise, so they shouldn't have worried about "contradicting" anything from the earlier games.

That "reboot" wasn't to completely retcon everything that had taken place before. The whole "no backwards-compatibility" thing was the result of the overhaul of basic mechanics... I think it was IV's... anyways, the only thing they really retconned were the in-game mechanics and algorithms. More obvious elements of the game, such as evolutionary lines, were not the main focus of the change, so why would they'd run the risk of ticking off even more fans with more change?

 

[Stratelier]

How do you explain these Pokémon suddenly being able to use Eviolite?

How did they explain Metagross suddenly being vulnerable to Ghost and Dark? Oh, wait, they didn't.

 

[CrystaI]

This whole mess of evolution and items can only be fix only if GF make a complete standalone Pokemon game that has no past and future compatibility, that doesn't utilize online storages like Pokemon Bank nor even online trading like GTS. But, giving that now GF development trends is getting more centralized into utilizing wifi feature to is maximum, it is impossible for GF to make a standalone main series Pokemon game without any past compatibility, and where past compatibility is the biggest problem in here.

They did release a game like that in 2002:

Pokémon Ruby and Sapphire Versions - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia

Whoops.

If they ever wanted to "fix" things like Eevee's way of evolving into Espeon/Umbreon, these were the games to do it in. They cut off all compatibility with the previous two Generations and essentially acted as a full-scale reboot for the franchise, so they shouldn't have worried about "contradicting" anything from the earlier games.

Unfortunately, they didn't retcon anything regarding on evolution methods of the first 251 GenI+II Pokemon when RS came out. And it seems like GF had decided to not touch anything regarding to evolution after it had been introduced. Hence there comes a technical problem that Eevee cannot evolve into Espeon or Umbreon in FrLg because it didn't have the clock built into the game system.

Now if GF will never ever retcon the evolution method even for future games, I wonder how Eevee will evolve into Sylveon when there is no Poke-Amie...

Ah, there also goes the biggest hell of Feebas evolving into Milotic in games other than RSE and DPPt...

 

[GhostFingers]

The thing is, I like some Mega Evos even more than the originals and I wish they could stay like that permanently (Mega Houndoom comes to mind).

In hindsight, I kind of wish they limited Mega Evolution to Pokemon that evolve twice. I don't really understand why they had Mega Evolutions for those that don't evolve or those that only evolve once. ... but for those who didn't mind it or actually liked it, well, they kind of ruined the chances of Absol or Mawile getting a permanent evolution.

Absol actually looks like it could get a preevo, and Mawile... I don't see where they could go with her...

I kinda wish they had limited mega evo even further. Maybe just the satrters and some legendaries (Kyogre/Groudon's primal forms for example). Absol's mega looks like it should be a real evo, (and also Dark/Fairy type)

If there's anything that ruined some Pokémon's chances of getting permanent evolutions, it's not Mega Evolutions, but instead, this item:

Eviolite - The Pokémon Wiki

If there's one thing Game Freak doesn't like to do, it's retcon the effects certain items have on certain Pokémon.

Speaking of this, it is true that GF never ever retcon the evolution methods and item effects.

And then, evolution method of one Pokemon is never ever going to change for whatever old and future games, hence for whatever cross-gen evolutions, GF just need to introduce new evolution methods or new evolution items that was not available in the past in order to prevent past compatibility problem.

I agree with you 100%. If there's one area where I wished Game Freak DID apply some Gameplay and Story Segregation, it's with cross-Generational pre/evolutions. So what if Eevee couldn't use the Moon and Leaf Stones in RBY? That shouldn't have stopped it from being able to use them in later games when Umbreon and Leafeon were introduced. And, why do we need all of these otherwise useless incense items just for a few useless Baby Pokémon? Does it really matter whether or not Marill could produce an Azurill in GSC or Snorlax could produce a Munchlax in RSE?

And, the same also applies to Eviolite. Just because a Pokémon was considered "fully-evolved" in the Generation this item was introduced shouldn't keep that Pokémon from ever getting an evolution later on. I'd hate it if Mega Evolution became Game Freak's way of providing new "evolutions" to old Pokémon just because of ONE item they don't want to "retcon."

Well, i think first of all most of the incenses have good in-battle effects.

Didn't this issue also apply to the moves hyper beam and giga impact? They can only be learned by pokemon that are fully evolved, OR have ever been fully evolved. They didn't want to change the rule, but they didn't want to change the eligible pokemon either. I think it's true that the Porygon line is the only three-stage evo family with all the members able to learn hyper beam in all the games they appear.

 

[Gnomowladny]

If there's anything that ruined some Pokémon's chances of getting permanent evolutions, it's not Mega Evolutions, but instead, this item:

Eviolite - The Pokémon Wiki

If there's one thing Game Freak doesn't like to do, it's retcon the effects certain items have on certain Pokémon. That's why you can't use a Moon Stone or Leaf Stone on Eevee to get Umbreon or Leafeon, respectively, or why you can't trade a Magneton holding a Metal Coat to get Magnezone. It's also why every single cross-Generational Baby Pokémon introduced after Gen 2 has required a special, specific incense to produce. Otherwise, they'd have to explain why Moon Stones didn't work on Eevee in RBY or why Marill couldn't hatch Azurill eggs in GSC.

Eviolite poses a similar problem. It only works on Pokémon who are capable of evolving, so what happens when you give the likes of Jynx or Arbok permanent evolutions later on? How do you explain these Pokémon suddenly being able to use Eviolite? The only reason Sylveon works is because it evolves from a Pokémon who's already capable of evolving, so its existence doesn't mess with Eviolite at all. A theoretical Jynx evolution, on the other hand, does.

Yup, that's true and would make perfect sense if it was not for Piloswine and Lickitung, who knew the moves need for their evolution before Fourth Generation.

On the one hand I think it's good that GF try to play according to their own rules, but not creating new evolutions becauce of Eviolite or requiring Incense for hatching new pre-evos looks like overreacting for me. I would be perfectly happy if they weren't so zealous and would turn a blind eye on these inconsistences. After all, the fact that prior to Second Generation Magneton was not weak to fire did not stop GF from retyping it later, right?

 

[BettyN]

Unfortunately, they didn't retcon anything regarding on evolution methods of the first 251 GenI+II Pokemon when RS came out. And it seems like GF had decided to not touch anything regarding to evolution after it had been introduced. Hence there comes a technical problem that Eevee cannot evolve into Espeon or Umbreon in FrLg because it didn't have the clock built into the game system.

Too bad they didn't, too, because obtaining Espeon and Umbreon in Gen 3 would've been a heck of a lot easier had they been simple Sun Stone/Moon Stone evolutions. Seriously, FRLG were the only main series games in Gen 3 where Eevee was obtainable without trade, and yet, you couldn't get Espeon/Umbreon because GF had the bright idea to remove the clock.

On the one hand I think it's good that GF try to play according to their own rules, but not creating new evolutions becauce of Eviolite or requiring Incense for hatching new pre-evos looks like overreacting for me. I would be perfectly happy if they weren't so zealous and would turn a blind eye on these inconsistences. After all, the fact that prior to Second Generation Magneton was not weak to fire did not stop GF from retyping it later, right?

GF seems to be annoyingly inconsistent about these inconsistencies. They have no problem retconning the typings of old Pokémon and changing type matchups like they did in Gens 2 and 6, but having Eevee evolve into Leafeon with a Leaf Stone or Wobbuffet hatch Wynaut without incense create "huge" inconsistencies that must be avoided.

 

[Stratelier]

It's true that GF has not generally retconned evolution methods. E.g. they retconned the Johto regional Pokedex to account for AncientPower-based evolutions, when they could have just as easily removed the move from the Pokemon's level-up moveset. As for Feebas, yes they did introduce the Marvel Scale as a trade-based evolution item. Then where Eevee is concerned, in XD its lack off using a realtime clock meant that an NPC gave you a Sun or Moon Shard to help evolve it into Espeon/Umbreon.

 

[LadySasaki]

I don't think GF are concerned with making sense to the point where eviolite would prevent future evolutions being introduced to previously non-evolving Pokes. For example, certain Pokemon not being able to evolve in FRLG just because you, their trainer, didn't have the correct pokedex yet to see their entries didn't make a lick of sense. But there it was! >__> (So glad they fixed that in future generations).

It feels to me like Mega Evolutions are some kind of horrible spawn of Formes, which were annoying enough because legendary Pokemon were fine as is. Then they began to expand to non-legendaries, such as Rotom. And now we have Mega Evolutions spreading like wildfire. *Everything* will eventually have a mega evolution. Ugh. At least Formes remained visible out of battle.

 

[BlackButterfree]

I don't think GF are concerned with making sense to the point where eviolite would prevent future evolutions being introduced to previously non-evolving Pokes. For example, certain Pokemon not being able to evolve in FRLG just because you, their trainer, didn't have the correct pokedex yet to see their entries didn't make a lick of sense. But there it was! >__> (So glad they fixed that in future generations).

It feels to me like Mega Evolutions are some kind of horrible spawn of Formes, which were annoying enough because legendary Pokemon were fine as is. Then they began to expand to non-legendaries, such as Rotom. And now we have Mega Evolutions spreading like wildfire. *Everything* will eventually have a mega evolution. Ugh. At least Formes remained visible out of battle.

To be fair, Formes were originally shown off with Unown and Castform, they weren't really a Legendary thing until Deoxys. And yes, it's been speculated that every family will end in a Mega.

 

[CrystaI]

To be fair, I wouldn't call the different Unown, Spinda, the east/west Shellos and Gastrodon, and the red/blue Basculin as "Formes", because they are not freely transformable between these different appearance. They have different shapes and physical appearance due to their species biology is like that, it is something completely different from "Formes".

GF is now overplay with the idea of formes. Starting from the very first Castform in RS, then retcon Deoxys in FrLg and Emerald, then Burmy, Wormadam, Cherrim and Arceus in DP, and retcon more to Rotom, Shaymin and Giratina in Pt. Then for the 5th gen, it is all Legendary except the Musteteer trio (If Genesect can accounted as one, but it is true that it is "freely transformable").

Now when come to 6th gen, Mega Evolution is the biggest overplay of the old "Formes" idea......

 

[GhostFingers]

*Everything* will eventually have a mega evolution. Ugh.

My worst nightmare!!! If everything CAN mega-evolve, it won't be nearly half as special as it's supposed to be.

Let's look back at gen IV. There were a ton of evos and prevos introduced. Lickilicky, Tangrowth and Rhyperior get a lot of stick. BUT it was also the introduction of Munchlax, Mime Jr. (adorable), Roserade, Weavile, Gliscor, Mismagius, Gallade etc etc. The good far outweigh the backlashed, but those are the only ones remembered. (Personally, i like Tangrowth - Tangela just had nothing in terms of usefulness until it got an evo)

It was probably the backlash of permanent evos that made GF nervous about making more, which is a real shame, given that the designs have been (mostly) outstanding.

 

[Stratelier]

On the subject of Eviolite, I don't think that's as big of an effect as some of you guys might fear. It's basically a free Cosmic Power, and from a BST perspective its value depends on exactly which Pokemon gets it. From a BST perspective, giving an offense-oriented Pokemon a new evolution later won't exactly push its effective stats into the legendary bracket....

(For a personal note, I would like to mention the issue of Scyther/Scizor. No BST increase at all between the two evos; Scyther's eligible for Eviolite where Scizor has that tradeoff of Speed for power and a typing that eliminates most of Scyther's original weaknesses. So who's better?)

 

[BettyN]

Let's look back at gen IV. There were a ton of evos and prevos introduced. Lickilicky, Tangrowth and Rhyperior get a lot of stick. BUT it was also the introduction of Munchlax, Mime Jr. (adorable), Roserade, Weavile, Gliscor, Mismagius, Gallade etc etc. The good far outweigh the backlashed, but those are the only ones remembered. (Personally, i like Tangrowth - Tangela just had nothing in terms of usefulness until it got an evo)

It was probably the backlash of permanent evos that made GF nervous about making more, which is a real shame, given that the designs have been (mostly) outstanding.

I've always found it strange that there was such a backlash against the pre/evolutions introduced in Gen 4. Did they not remember the 19 cross-Generational pre/evolutions that were introduced two generations earlier? I don't remember there being so much hatred towards the likes of Steelix, Scizor, Crobat, and Kingdra. In fact, most people thought those Pokémon were cool and gave new usefulness to their evolutionary families. (Just play RBY or FRLG to see how worthless the Onix, Zubat, and Horsea lines were without their later evos.)

The same is also true for most of the Gen 4 evos. Most Pokémon who got new evolutions got them for a reason. Just compare Togetic's stats to Togekiss':

HP: 55
Attack: 40
Defense: 85
Sp. Attack: 80
Sp. Defense: 105
Speed: 40

vs

HP: 85
Attack: 50
Defense: 95
Sp. Attack: 120
Sp. Defense: 115
Speed: 80

Be honest, who even bothered with the Togepi line before Gen 4? Unless you really liked the Pokémon, there was just no getting around those bad stats, and let's face it, Mega Togetic still wouldn't have been nearly as useful or effective as Togekiss.

 

[LadySasaki]

Let's look back at gen IV. There were a ton of evos and prevos introduced. Lickilicky, Tangrowth and Rhyperior get a lot of stick. BUT it was also the introduction of Munchlax, Mime Jr. (adorable), Roserade, Weavile, Gliscor, Mismagius, Gallade etc etc. The good far outweigh the backlashed, but those are the only ones remembered.

You just hit the nail on the head. People have an infinite capacity to remember the bad, and unfortunately vocalise more about what they don't like than what they do.

We're probably in the minority, but I too adored the prevos and evos introduced in Gen 4. Sinnoh was one of my favourite regions, and suddenly seeing old Pokemon become attractive/useful potential members of my party was a large and wonderful part of the experience. Whereas I don't want to touch Megas with a ten foot pole.

 

[BettyN]

We're probably in the minority, but I too adored the prevos and evos introduced in Gen 4. Sinnoh was one of my favourite regions, and suddenly seeing old Pokemon become attractive/useful potential members of my party was a large and wonderful part of the experience. Whereas I don't want to touch Megas with a ten foot pole.

I mostly agree with you. While I do find the majority of Baby Pokémon to be useless and a waste of Dex space (Mr. Mime and Sudowoodo needed evolutions, not babies), I don't mind new evolutions, for the most part. I probably would've never given the Zubat and Horsea lines a second look if it wasn't for Crobat and Kingdra, and I won't even bother with the Togepi, Sneasel, and Swinub lines if their final forms aren't available. Again, most Pokémon who got new evolutions got them for a very good reason.

 

[GhostFingers]

I mostly agree with you. While I do find the majority of Baby Pokémon to be useless and a waste of Dex space (Mr. Mime and Sudowoodo needed evolutions, not babies), I don't mind new evolutions, for the most part.

Baby pokemon serve two functions. Cute 'dex filler, and availing moves otherwise unobtainable. Budew learns worry seed, Roselia learns leech seed. Evolve at the right time and you can have both.

 

[BettyN]

Baby pokemon serve two functions. Cute 'dex filler, and availing moves otherwise unobtainable. Budew learns worry seed, Roselia learns leech seed. Evolve at the right time and you can have both.

Cute Dex filler is something I could live without, and most of the moves that are exclusive to Babies aren't worth it (and the ones that are could easily be egg/level up moves).

 

[GhostFingers]

Thought of another reason pro regular evo. What about Pokemon-amie? Wouldn't you like to pet M Absol or Venusaur? (for example)

 

[Bug Catcher Wade]

I love Mega evolutions for pokemon which are already at their third stage like charizard and Alakazam, or which are equivalently big powerhouses even though they have only one or to stages like Gyarados and Abomasnow.

But some pokemon are small and shrimpy. Maybe a more competitive player than I knows how to make Mawile worth having on your team, but to me, it looks like it could easily be the first of a two or three stage line before it's formitable. Mega Mawile could have been it's own new pokemon that could have been worth keeping around or else it could have stayed an obscure, single stage pokemon and let the energy and resources put into giving it a mega form be used on one more deserving.

I loved generation five for the sheer number of new pokemon it put out. I love having a bunch of nw names to learn and abilities and evolution methods to memorize and catalogue. So when generaton six is the smallest generation yet, in favour of things like Mega Bannette, it's a shame we couldn't have just had more new pokemon.
Generation four was one of my favourites as well; it had a wealth of new evolutions for old pokemon throughout, and then a big deposit of them at the end of the list. Electivire is my favourite (relatively) new pokemon, and Rhyperior, Magmortar, Magnezone, Tangrowth are al really cool elaborations on old favourites. Would you rather "Mega Tangela"? When forgettable pokemon like Manectric get a mega evoution that only makes them maybe as cool or interesting as the average third-stage pokemon temporarily, I'd rather just have either Manectric's thrid stage, or put the time and energy into Mega-something cooler.

And if that's the way it's got to be for a generation, then that's fine. If Generation Six is the one where mega evolution is the hot new thing then okay. But if it becomes a trend to just do new megas every game, then that spells doom for the hopes of those of us who home Generation seven might have a big cache of new evolutions like generation four did, or that beloved but wimpy old pokemon will get new and better stages.