Your controversial opinions

[Jimothy]

I do think that the Go catching is more in line with the series’ themes?

Ideally it wouldn’t even be a toggle, you would just seamlessly get to decide whether to attack each Pokémon or catch it peacefully. Like how you can do an all-pacifist run of Undertale.

Let the player decide how violent they want to be, or if they just want to make new friends. Even add in other methods of winning the monster to your side within the wild battle framework, like playing a game with it or giving it treats or something. Adding elements of Pokemonamie to wild battles, I guess is what I’m saying.

 

[Esserise]

The Let’s Go games are by far the best rendition of the Kanto games and it’s honestly not even close. Not just graphically is it superior, which isn’t a fair comparison by itself since console limitations prevented a game from looking like Let’s Go 20 years ago, but the region itself was done much better. Character customization, as limited as it is, was really nice, the wild Pokémon selection is by far the best Kanto has ever seen bar none. Overworld encounters that also render shinies is elite. The partner aspect with the starter and being able to customize them is amazing. Being able to Surf on Lapras or Gyarados, fly on Charizard, Dragonite, and Aerodactyl as well as ride on Pokémon like Arcanine and Rhyhorn, effectively replacing several of the HMs and the bike is God tier.

I really only have three major gripes with Let's GO:

1) Trace. I will say that the displacement of Blue does have its structural advantages (like getting to see him take over the Viridian Gym), so what I truly wish for is simply that Blue were replaced with someone more interesting than Trace. This isn't even a "friendly rivals bad" thing, because I don't believe that at all - I just think Trace in particular is really bland.

2) The lack of a proper bike. Being able to ride your Pokémon is great, but it limits your party choices if you ever want to move across the map more quickly.

3) GO Park requiring you to re-capture the Pokémon you've sent over, which can become extremely tedious if the Pokémon decides to not cooperate with you. Catching Melmetal is the worst.

But other than those points, it's pretty much a straight-up improvement. FRLG on the other hand is a mixed bag, to me. Yes, it has held items and Abilities, but I'm not so invested in those that I can't get through one nostalgic throwback game without them. And while it does technically have more content in the form of the Sevii Islands and more Pokémon from the Johto roster, personally I think the Sevii Islands are pretty dull, and I am willing to give a pass for Kanto being limited to its original roster, since I recognize the value in the original 151's collective iconography. (Though we do still get Meltan added, who I love, even though I wish its evolution weren't bound to GO - it's kind of awkward having to send over a separate Meltan just for the sake of Dex completion and knowing that it's basically just going to sit in your box, forever unused.)

I think Lysandre is a good villain. The only problem I have with him is that his motives are so similar to Cyrus', but that's not really Lysandre's fault. The plot of X and Y might feel a bit like a rehash of Diamond and Pearl, but it's still a good plot in its own right, if a little underdeveloped. I appreciated the darker, more mature tone.

My personal feeling is that Lysandre's motives are more effectively fleshed out than Cyrus's, as are the rest of the Flare grunts (well, not the Scientists; I don't know what their deal is). For me, Team Galactic had a clear dissonance in tone between its leadership and its followers, with Cyrus simply writing them all off as dumb idiots whom he was using as a means to an end. (With the grunts' own motives being... that they were saps who liked the sound of a self-centered businessman selling them snake oil by saying he'd make a new universe for them? Although I guess in fairness that idea hits different these days.) Team Flare takes that same dissonance and makes it the whole point - Lysandre's insecurities and adherence to certain prejudices led him to put his faith in the wrong sort of people, such that he was poised to create the very thing he claimed to despise: A world full of nothing but selfish, vapid "takers." I think that underlying futility is rather compelling, and in addition to that, you've got the parallels between him and AZ (initially a provider of tech and prosperity for the region whose ego similarly pushed him to a pointless, myopic, genocidal extreme that caused him to lose what he'd set out to procure in the first place). And this all further ties into the games' themes of how we relate to others and how divisions in social status can shape those relationships.

This definitely isn't to say that everything the game wraps up in those themes manages to land successfully - frankly, I think they probably bit off a fair bit more than they could really chew, and there's certainly aspects that I can complain about - but I still think there're a lot more interesting things going on under the hood when it comes to Team Flare. For some, it's a rehash, but for me, it's more like the Diamond & Pearl plot was the rough draft.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

For me, Team Galactic had a clear dissonance in tone between its leadership and its followers, with Cyrus simply writing them all off as dumb idiots whom he was using as a means to an end. (With the grunts' own motives being... that they were saps who liked the sound of a self-centered businessman selling them snake oil by saying he'd make a new universe for them? Although I guess in fairness that idea hits different these days.)

Still better than Pokémon Adventures, where they're all united together in a single hivemind, always having a completely blank expression, never speaking, and moving in perfect synchrony. All brainwashed to this state to reflect what kind of world Cyrus wants to create.

 

[Esserise]

Still better than Pokémon Adventures, where they're all united together in a single hivemind, always having a completely blank expression, never speaking, and moving in perfect synchrony. All brainwashed to this state to reflect what kind of world Cyrus wants to create.

Huh.

I kinda don't hate that, though.

(Actually, it addresses one of my other problems with Team Galactic in the games, which is that it's never quite clear what exactly their "perfect world" is supposed to look like and why we are supposed to dread that outcome, especially not after Platinum changed things to reveal that Cyrus was just going to make a world solely for himself. So he's just gonna' sit around in a void for eternity? Technically that's exactly what he ends up doing in Pokémon Generations's The New World, except there it's neatly framed as an unexpected victory that manages to not impinge on anyone else's way of life. I always liked that.)

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

Huh.

I kinda don't hate that, though.

To each their own.

 

[swiftgallade46]

Besides, it was yet another Kanto remake. Yeah, I get it. The last one was in 2004 for the DS,

Are you referring to FRLG or HGSS? HGSS were 2009-10 and FRLG were for GBA.

 

[Norzan]

Gen 6 was also a Kanto love fest. The Kanto starters get Megas instead of the Kalos ones, for instance.

Gen 6 was really more like Gen 1 featuring Gen 6. I'm also still annoyed to this day that the majority of legendaries you can catch in the postgame of XY are Kanto legendaries. Of course XY not introducing more than three legendaries didn't helped, which for years at this point i believe they should have saved the Swords of Justice for XY (because france).

It feels like Gamefreak had to jam as much as Gen 1 into Gen 6, and really everything after, or else they for some reason think people will not like the game or something. Which is ridiculous.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

Gen 6 was really more like Gen 1 featuring Gen 6. I'm still annoyed to this that the majority of legendaries you can catch in the postgame of XY are Kanto legendaries.

It feels like Gamefreak had to jam as much as Gen 1 into Gen 6, and really everything after, or else they for some reason think people will not like the game or something. Which is ridiculous.

It's possible they had more Kalos stuff planned for the Z version that never came to be.

 

[Esserise]

Gen 6 was really more like Gen 1 featuring Gen 6.

I assume ORAS isn't included in this calculus because to say ORAS is mostly Gen 1 stuff would certainly be... a claim.

But even without ORAS, I don't really see this. There's so much more to X & Y and to Kalos than some harmless references and generally similar setpieces. The fandom fixation on the Gen 1 elements in XY always feels to me like it's willfully avoiding engaging with the substantial parts of the game that are their own. (And really I would say the same about the similar accusations toward Sun & Moon.)

I'm still annoyed to this that the majority of legendaries you can catch in the postgame of XY are Kanto legendaries.

Well you can only catch four Legendaries throughout the entire game. The cover mascot, Zygarde, one of the birds, and Mewtwo. It's literally half and half, but of course they're going to want you to encounter one during the main storyline.

 

[Norzan]

There's so much more to X & Y and to Kalos than some harmless references and generally similar setpieces. The fandom fixation on the Gen 1 elements in XY always feels to me like it's willfully avoiding engaging with the substantial parts of the game that are their own. (And really I would say the same about the similar accusations toward Sun & Moon.)

I wouldn't call being handed a Kanto starter near the start of the game (taking focus from the new starters), that starter and the other two starters getting Mega Evolution, the constant references to Kanto characters and locations (far more than to other regions and their characters), a Snorlax blocking a bridge, Santalune Forest being a near copy of Viridian Forest, the bigger percentage of Mega Evolutions are for Kanto pokemon (Charizard and Mewtwo get two, which doesn't happen to anyone else), and many other things as just simple "harmless references and generaly similar setpieces". Just there's too much of Gen 1 being jammed into XY and it's to its detriment. Yes, XY does have plenty of its own identity, but Gen 1 still likes to remind you that it's there.

It's still prevalent in Gen 7, even if reduced, like all Alolan forms being for Kanto pokemon, Samuel Oak, and again, the larger percentage of references are for Gen 1.

It's literally half and half

Yeah, for Gen 6 and Gen 1 and no one other gen. Starting to see the problem here?

 

[Enzo]

Are you referring to FRLG or HGSS? HGSS were 2009-10 and FRLG were for GBA.

I mean, both (?).

Like, we got the of games in the late 90's. Then a remake in gen 3 in 2004 (FRLG), then yet another Kanto game in HGSS in 2009 (c'mon that was pratically a Johto + Kanto bundle game, not a solo Johto one). And then another one in 2018, u know?

Besides the fact the franchise in general shoves Kanto in literally everything. I get it. Kanto was the OG region and all. But do we really need all of that? It does gets tiring after a while. I mean, most of the fandom is sick of Kanto at this point.

 

[swiftgallade46]

I mean, both (?).

Like, we got the of games in the late 90's. Then a remake in gen 3 in 2004 (FRLG), then yet another Kanto game in HGSS in 2009 (c'mon that was pratically a Johto + Kanto bundle game, not a solo Johto one). And then another one in 2018, u know?

Besides the fact the franchise in general shoves Kanto in literally everything. I get it. Kanto was the OG region and all. But do we really need all of that? It does gets tiring after a while. I mean, most of the fandom is sick of Kanto at this point.

Oh, I wasn’t disagreeing with your point. I was just clarifying because you had said a Kanto game in 2004 for the DS but no such game exists it would either be FRLG in 2004 for the GBA or HGSS in 2009-10 for the DS.

 

[Mr. MoonStone]

I guess my controversial opinion for today is that I don't really mind the Kanto references and the "pandering" isn't that bad It's an iconic era and region for the franchise, and while I absolutely agree that other regions should get some spotlight too, the inclusion of these elements hasn't harmed the experience, or deterred me form enjoyment. Generally speaking, if I think there are issues in a Pokémon game, usually references to the Gen I region isn't at the top of my list.

 

[Norzan]

The problem was never the references themselves, but the amount of them.

 

[Enzo]

Oh, I wasn’t disagreeing with your point. I was just clarifying because you had said a Kanto game in 2004 for the DS but no such game exists it would either be FRLG in 2004 for the GBA or HGSS in 2009-10 for the DS.

Oh it's cuz I mixed them up lol. Sorry.

 

[Esserise]

I wouldn't call being handed a Kanto starter near the start of the game (taking focus from the new starters), that starter and the other two starters getting Mega Evolution, the constant references to Kanto characters and locations (far more than to other regions and their characters), a Snorlax blocking a bridge, Santalune Forest being a near copy of Viridian Forest, the bigger percentage of Mega Evolutions are for Kanto pokemon (Charizard and Mewtwo get two, which doesn't happen to anyone else), and many other things as just simple "harmless references and generaly similar setpieces".

Did the Kanto Starters receiving Mega Evolutions really take away the focus from the new ones, or is that just a weird persecution complex that fans have engineered on behalf of the Kalos Starters because they wanted them to get Megas? I can understand wanting them to have Mega Evolutions, but would the fact that the Starters are brand-new Pokémon not still have an appeal? Let's keep in mind that Greninja is one of the most popular Pokémon in the series.

Snorlax is just a cute pretense for a completely different sidequest that resembles nothing the Kanto games ever put forth. Again, everyone's ignoring the substance there. Hence "generally similar." And the same goes for just about everything else that has some nod to Kanto, like Team Flare looking for fossils to sell. In the context of the game, we go to that cave to follow up on a potential lead about Mega Evolution, a Kalos thing, and the presentation of the cave is completely different from Mt. Moon, instead being designed to take advantage of the new 3D aspect of the hardware.

Santalune Forest's layout isn't called attention to at all, and what difference does it really make anyway? The encounter tables are completely different, featuring Pokémon from multiple gens, and while Viridian Forest was used as a Poison-inflicting tribulation, Santalune Forest is more of a casual backdrop used for developing the character's relationship with the rivals (again, completely unlike Gen 1's approach to its rival).

I'll grant that Charizard and Mewtwo doubling up on Megas is pure shilling, but overall, only 2 more Kanto species receive Megas than Hoenn species. If anything, I think the Kanto/Johto/Hoenn breakdown is loosely proportional to each gen's overall roster size, while Gen 4 and especially 5 are the ones that seem anemic.

Yeah, for Gen 6 and Gen 1 and no one other gen. Starting to see the problem here?

I'm not really seeing it as a problem. Xerneas is the one the story does (and should) primarily feature, while the other three are just bonuses. (And depending on the development timelines, I think it's possible that they might've specifically wanted to hold the rest of the Legendaries back for ORAS.)

 

[Daren]

Let's keep in mind that Greninja is one of the most popular Pokémon in the series.

Yes, but Greninja got there after tons of promotion in the anime (but was still very deliberately put below Charizard) and being the only Kalos starter to eventually get a mega evolution equivalent.

 

[Jimothy]

Something I’ve noticed that I find kind of bewildering is this idea of “fairness” with regard to fictional characters.

It’s not just Pokémon, fans of the current Digimon anime get mad at the show for focusing on the main character, toku fans get mad when one character gets more powerup forms, etc.

I just find it odd, and never really see the problem. I’ve never been a Charizard guy (picked Squirtle every time), but what do I care if it gets more forms? Who cares who gets more toys? It doesn’t affect who my favorites are and it certainly doesn’t make me resentful of the characters that do get more attention.

It’s not bad that there’s a lot of Kanto content, it’s just what happens.

 

[Norzan]

but what do I care if it gets more forms? Who cares who gets more toys? It doesn’t affect who my favorites are and it certainly doesn’t make me resentful of the characters that do get more attention.

Because why are some getting more than others? And how can some get more popular if they get nothing? It's the same with recent generations, how do they become iconic if the earlier generations, specially the first, constantly have to butt in to remind the newer generations that they should apologize for not being made first?

It's also exhausting to me seeing the same content getting shoved in my face constantly.

It’s not bad that there’s a lot of Kanto content, it’s just what happens.

If it's at the detriment of other regions, then it is bad and i don't see how anyone can not see it as bad. It's biased and lopsided.

 

[Jimothy]

Because why are some getting more than others? And how can some get more popular if they get nothing? It's the same with recent generations, how do they become iconic if the earlier generations, specially the first, constantly have to butt in to remind the newer generations that they should apologize for not being made first?

It's also exhausting to me seeing the same content getting shoved in my face constantly.

If it's at the detriment of other regions, then it is bad and i don't see how anyone can not see it as bad. It's biased and lopsided.

Yeah, this is a really good example of what I’m talking about. Oddly hostile language for describing a work of fiction.

I dunno, my favorite is Shedinja and I don’t care that it sucks. There are plenty of standout designs from the newer games like Honedge and Meowstic and Vivillon and Passimian and Drampa that are iconic to me regardless of promotion.

I’m not saying people can’t be dissatisfied. But I don’t really care about perceived bias and I’m not sure why anyone would, let alone enough to get heated about it.