Mafia Chess Mafia (2023) - ENDGAME - TOWN + INDEPT WIN!

[Zexy]

I woke up to 27 alerts here. Plus other stuff offsite. I did skim a bit, replies will need to wait a bit more for when I actually get time since they kinda need to be long and elaborate.

 

[Zexy]

Why? This game has an excess of power roles. If zinn was a cop that means we had a tracker/watcher, a cop, a UB, and four more players that could have become investigative roles at N5. Thats an absurd amount of invesitgative power, so it makes sense that scum might have two roleblockers to help counteract it.

Zinn has to be a Cop because no one else claimed it, and the existence of Framer means there is one. As for disruptives, we have a flipped Jailer (every night), Raven who had a passive Vengeful Roleblocker and a 1x Rolestopper, Minish is also town blocker half the nights... Would there be a 4th block role? Meanwhile for protections/redirections we have 2 claimed Bodyguards and a Bus Driver/Nexus (of which one has to be lying)... It makes more sense for scum to also have a redirection role instead of another blocking role.

I was also told i succeeded N2. What have your night actions been this game and what kind of results did you get from them?

All we have for it is your word, no interaction of another player's role was redirected that we know of. Just like all you have is my word that the tracker failed, and Bodyguards' word about their entire claim. Basically we are all equally non-cleared.

I wonder if raven's body being released is related to the doubleblock. Maybe its they can capture some of the players who die and then use them to power up their own abilities for a night or gain one-shot abilities based on the player's role? In that case releasing raven could have given them an extra block and a regular block/redirect could have been their second one.

I have not considered this because I have never seen a role working like this... The only way I can see this working is if scum you rolestopped yourself just to prevent my track. Which was still WIFOMable because there was as much interest in rolestopping your kill target in case I watch them.

Sorry I haven't been able to really keep up.
Haven't seen, so could y'all update me on how Potato is clear?
And all claims so far.

Basically we know Town Emperor is in the game since D1 start, and no one ever claimed it. Besides he asked so much if it should be outed or not at start, it was a dead giveaway, Jamie, beryl and I all deduced it way before massclaim. We also doubt it is Zinn, almost everyone thinks Beloved, Cop or both.

9. Helperman - Checkers piece. Hops over two people every day. wins when some percentage of players has been hopped. Self-aligned, non-threat.

Everyone alive, which could be happening today if he hops Minish + one of us, while the other gets lynched. Or tomorrow if we lynch Jamie. Still not someone I would worry about, he is self-solving before final 3.

Scum used rolestopper? Also, if scum!Raganarokio had two abilities you would still them visiting two people.

If we go by the scenario that scum can flip dead townie role PMs to use their roles, absolutely. If ragnarokio has two or more abilities, with a claimed tracker shot around, they would have to self-rolestop.

Alright, we both claimed to eachother day 0. I was then further convinced by the host after I set up a little trap to confirm us both.

I still think it is worth going into more detail on what that trap was. @beryllium also, please.

I brought up a redirect because 1) that is a role that can counter me and Beryllium, I specifically asked about strongman interaction and was told that it did not affect the fact that we were bodyguarding. 2) If a town roleblocker comes out and says “hey I didn’t tile block the person being roleblocked” and no one else claims roleblocked, it’s common sense to realise there’s a redirector.

I know Strongman Bodyguard interactions can be very weird Thing is, we have a claimed Bus Driver and maybe a Rolestopper or Framer Jailer back, so I am not as sure of Redirector being around anymore.

I am waiting for Beryllium to come back, maybe losing all the shots was a little bit of a lie. We’ll see what happened to her last night.

I did consider that, you just cannot stop gambitting, don't you?

zexy's claims are also unconfirmed and NKing zinn N2 makes a lot more sense if the scumteam was him+dawning than if it was me+dawning.

How does it make more sense?

I don't really understand your softing meta well but would it be unusual for a scum player who rolled universal backup to start softing it from the beginning of the game?

It would be super hard to pull off, how could scum me at D1 know how things will play out setup wise for the rest of the game when it comes to roles in order to make sure I would keep being able to make the claim work?

Minish and Potato confirmed, I trust Milk. Would you consider yourself a counter claim to Zexy?

If you somehow are town and really trust milk, CC does not matter, this is solved anyway and all that wall posting was pointless in the same way you did with Mido in GO Rush, everyone else would tell you to stop it cuz it was pointless, but you kept going. So I can kinda feel you now Also ragna knows they cannot CC me directly so they are trying to spin the narrative that Zinn was my CC, Zinn who they decided to Janitor kill...

Caught up to page 74, 75 coming soon...

 

[Zexy]

Beryl, if you could please stop just liking all the posts and help us solve this, please? You are my non-clear town read, unlike Minish/Potato who despite being clear are kinda detached, you know Jamie's play this game the best.

How did the exact interaction timeline about claiming Bodyguard to each other go, how are you both so sure?

 

[guzmania]

jamie and i have hard proof we are town (it took me a second to figure out what he was referring to but i got it now :V). i don't want to say it without his permission though.
but it completely clears us both.

 

[Zexy]

Are you super sure Jamie did not make you think that way? In that case let's just lynch ragnarokio and be done with it...

 

[JamieIsBored]

Or tomorrow if we lynch Jamie

… are you serious? Lynch today is between you, Rag and Helperman.

I still think it is worth going into more detail on what that trap was. @beryllium also, please.

When I said about us using all our shots, he reached out to correct me.

I did consider that, you just cannot stop gambitting, don't you?

A lot less flashier than the one I was going to use to ensure Zinn got a role off.

If you somehow are town and really trust milk, CC does not matter, this is solved anyway and all that wall posting was pointless in the same way you did with Mido in GO Rush, everyone else would tell you to stop it cuz it was pointless, but you kept going. So I can kinda feel you now Also ragna knows they cannot CC me directly so they are trying to spin the narrative that Zinn was my CC, Zinn who they decided to Janitor kill...

Huh? CC totally matters, with Raven out as pawn, the only un-figured out names are Queen and Knight. Three players, two names the mafia is in one of those three. Also, how are wall posts pointless? I’m not going to respond to every post individually.

 

[guzmania]

wha? jamie, i think i noticed something you didn't in neighbor chat, bc that wasnt what i was thinking abt. though that was true

 

[guzmania]

d1 jamie asked ex if neighbor chat would be disbanded if either of us became king. ex said it would be, which i would say confirms us both as town as it suggests we both have the capacity to become king.

 

[JamieIsBored]

wha? jamie, i think i noticed something you didn't in neighbor chat, bc that wasnt what i was thinking abt. though that was true

I would prefer you say. Otherwise it could be twisted.

 

[Zexy]

… are you serious? Lynch today is between you, Rag and Helperman.

Why lynch helperman today? He can self-solve long before f3. Unless you are afraid he will endgame us when everyone is hopped, but that gives us less room for mislynch (although we may be able to afford it if we solve the block mess without needing to flip someone).

When I said about us using all our shots, he reached out to correct me.

Beryl did not know how many shots you had at that point?

A lot less flashier than the one I was going to use to ensure Zinn got a role off.

I kinda wanna find out about this one, but better save that for endgame.

Huh? CC totally matters, with Raven out as pawn, the only un-figured out names are Queen and Knight. Three players, two names the mafia is in one of those three. Also, how are wall posts pointless? I’m not going to respond to every post individually.

I still think Zinn was Bishop and Minish is Knight and ragnarokio is scum. With Zinn hidden and Knight/Bishop being fuzzy, we won't be really getting a true name CC, unless scum kills Minish (who has no reason to risk it).

Also, how are wall posts pointless? I’m not going to respond to every post individually.

I mean wallposts between ragna and me, not yours.

 

[guzmania]

Beryl did not know how many shots you had at that point?

of course i did. this was a jamie gambit.
i actually am out of shots now though.

 

[Zexy]

d1 jamie asked ex if neighbor chat would be disbanded if either of us became king. ex said it would be, which i would say confirms us both as town as it suggests we both have the capacity to become king.

Pretty sure that does not prove something, host would be careful with wording like that. I mean he literally put a clause in the rules that he may arbitrarily debunk any claims of communication with him to not meta clear anyone.

of course i did. this was a jamie gambit.
i actually am out of shots now though.

This is better, but it is still something Jamie scum could pull, but it takes some guesswork and/or luck.

 

[Zexy]

Still not super happy we have handed town leader hats to Jamie/beryl when Minish/Potato are our actual clears, but we gotta work with what we have

 

[ExLight]

Pretty sure that does not prove something, host would be careful with wording like that. I mean he literally put a clause in the rules that he may arbitrarily debunk any claims of communication with him to not meta clear anyone.

 

[JamieIsBored]

Why lynch helperman today? He can self-solve long before f3. Unless you are afraid he will endgame us when everyone is hopped, but that gives us less room for mislynch (although we may be able to afford it if we solve the block mess without needing to flip someone).

I meant the lynch in general sorry.

Beryl did not know how many shots you had at that point?

I assume they did.

I mean wallposts between ragna and me, not yours.

Oh, okay.

I still think Zinn was Bishop and Minish is Knight and ragnarokio is scum. With Zinn hidden and Knight/Bishop being fuzzy, we won't be really getting a true name CC, unless scum kills Minish (who has no reason to risk it).

Even then lynch is still between you and Ragnarokio. Sorry man.

 

[guzmania]

ex also fell for a trap jamie laid to be entirely fair.
once again, dont wanna give anything away without permission, but jamie and i have had two very special interactions in neighbor chat that also HARD prove we have the same role.
i'm not used to scum torchic boy and his behavior felt super towny earlier, but... it's him or ragna now for sure. ragna seems to have some really unique takes on roles compared to everyone else so far, and quite the odd role herself, but that doesnt necessarily mean she's scum. doesn't make her necessarily look any better.
for now i'll chalk this up to late game zexy paranoia, but it's one of you two.

 

[JamieIsBored]

I know Zexy’s a bit paranoid about letting me townlead, but with the two roles we have been given, the lynch today almost has to be Ragnarokio.

 

[guzmania]

jamie, please forgive me if you didn't want this, but i'm in the mood to hard-clear us if you wouldn't mind.

at the very beginning of neighbor chat, jamie asked me if i would be okay sharing my role. i gave him everything except for one specific piece of information. he told me he had the exact same role, and n1 asked me if the specific piece of information pertained to me as well or was just him. he literally would have no way of knowing that thing existed if he did not have my role (which is pretty obviously a town role). so, he is town, as am i.

 

[Zexy]

Yeah the only way for Jamie to be scum is to be Shogi Pawn Odd Day Even Night Janitor Neighbor who is also Informed about his Neighbor's exact other role from start (since it happened before they could use Rolecop) and has also promoted in a way that lets him use at least 2 of past roles (Framer Jailer + Rolestopper) or 1 past role plus redirecting Minish blocker...

Or it is just ragnarokio

Lynch should always be between ragnarokio and helperman today.

 

[guzmania]

vote: ragnarokio

she looks worse than zexy as of now and i would rather lynch someone who may very very well be scum than a proven indep. i've ran through all remaining scenarios and i am not considering jamie or helper votes before -LO.
also remember how ragna is a sub and her slot was originally tood's. tood is the one who dropped out after being pressured, was responsible for some really cwac-y posts, and... now, this may just be me reading too much into things (which i do sometimes lol), but i found it really interesting how tood specified in their parting post that they were sorry for not trying hard enough as town. i think most people would have just said "not trying hard enough" or maybe "not trying hard enough here/in this game," them specifically saying "as town" stuck out to me. could just be me losing my mind though, may not mean much of anything, but maybe so.
if ragna is telling the truth i wonder what tood meant by nexus/bus driver being a liability for town? i don't think that statement from them alone suggests that ragna is lying, it just makes me curious.

funniest thing in this game was obviously human flipping town bc it meant he actually did randomly choose zexy and me as his practice scumbuddies and in retrospect i find that quite amusing