Ash's 6 strongest pokemon

[Greninjaman]

If there is one thing we can all agree on, it's this: Pikachu is Ash's MOST powerful Pokémon. He had been with Ash for all the adventures up to now. He has been in the MOST battles out of all of Ash's Pokémon, simply because he was always there on Ash's team. Because of that, he has the most wins and losses of all of Ash's Pokémon.

 

[nickdt]

It is intereating to see how no one votes for pokemon from the Kalos team (not including Pika/Gninja) and there were so many of us claiming Ash should have won back then.

Do we ignore how good was that team because of the result? Or is it because the focus had been on Gninja (plot/training)? I do think they were all powerful and I did put them all on the poll but Noivern.

tbh... i feel like its also a popularity contest sometimes (Which is why mons like Lucario and Greninja get overrated strenght wise... especially looking at their feats, compared to mons like Talonflame for example and the 2 Incineroar votes for me aren't that surprising because of it, despite it not having any feats to speak off compared to other mons on this list) and people vote for their faves (Despite that... me as a person who has Glalie as a favorite could have given it that 1 vote... but i didn't... cuz while its strong and in the top 10... its deffo not in the strongest six after Journeys).

Now looking at the poll... it surprises me Goodra is on it... since its the second weakest mon in Ash's arsenal... only outperforming Noivern (Like Tauros went toe-to-toe with Drakes Dragonite for a time... even damaging it by taking it upon its horn, defeated the strongest Tauros in Johto and had a draw with Annabels Metagross, while Goodra couldn't even defeat a weakened Bisharp, so Tauros deserves more to be on the poll than Goodra).

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

tbh... i feel like its also a popularity contest sometimes (Which is why mons like Lucario and Greninja get overrated strenght wise... especially looking at their feats, compared to mons like Talonflame for example and the 2 Incineroar votes for me aren't that surprising because of it, despite it not having any feats to speak off compared to other mons on this list) and people vote for their faves (Despite that... me as a person who has Glalie as a favorite could have given it that 1 vote... but i didn't... cuz while its strong and in the top 10... its deffo not in the strongest six after Journeys).

Now looking at the poll... it surprises me Goodra is on it... since its the second weakest mon in Ash's arsenal... only outperforming Noivern (Like Tauros went toe-to-toe with Drakes Dragonite for a time... even damaging it by taking it upon its horn, defeated the strongest Tauros in Johto and had a draw with Annabels Metagross, while Goodra couldn't even defeat a weakened Bisharp, so Tauros deserves more to be on the poll than Goodra).

Is Goodra stronger than Oshawott, Snivy, Scraggy, Boldore, Muk, Butterfree, and Pidgeot in your opinion?

 

[Imtnt]

Now looking at the poll... it surprises me Goodra is on it... since its the second weakest mon in Ash's arsenal... only outperforming Noivern (Like Tauros went toe-to-toe with Drakes Dragonite for a time... even damaging it by taking it upon its horn, defeated the strongest Tauros in Johto and had a draw with Annabels Metagross, while Goodra couldn't even defeat a weakened Bisharp, so Tauros deserves more to be on the poll than Goodra).

I guess he is there because it wasn't ages ago that Ash ran with his Kalos team. So in general Goodra was part of a team got him as a runnerup, after being a better trainer who can challenge champions like Diantha. Though Ash Gninja got most of the focus and Goodra went to take a nap in his new home. Goodra sould have been his powerhouse pokemon there, just as Melmetal & Snorlax & Heracross. In the end it is not the one to remember by results, but I did give him the doubt as he got the strength.

 

[-PokemonBattleFanatic-]

Original Series/Kanto
Charizard
Kingler
Bulbasaur
Squirtle
Pidgeotto
Pikachu

Original Series/Orange Islands
Charizard
Snorlax
Kingler
Bulbasaur
Squirtle
Pikachu

Original Series/Johto
Charizard
Snorlax
Bulbasaur
Kingler
Squirtle
Heracross

Advanced Generation/Hoenn
Charizard
Snorlax
Bulbasaur
Glalie
Swellow
Kingler

Advanced Generation/Battle Frontier
Charizard
Sceptile
Pikachu
Snorlax
Bulbasaur
Glalie

Diamond & Pearl
Charizard
Pikachu
Infernape
Sceptile
Snorlax
Bulbasaur

Best Wishes
Charizard
Infernape
Sceptile
Snorlax
Pikachu
Krookodile

XY
Greninja
Charizard
Pikachu
Infernape
Sceptile
Snorlax

Sun & Moon
Pikachu
Greninja
Charizard
Infernape
Sceptile
Snorlax

Journeys
Pikachu
Greninja
Lucario
Charizard
Infernape
Sceptile

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

It is intereating to see how no one votes for pokemon from the Kalos team (not including Pika/Gninja) and there were so many of us claiming Ash should have won back then.

Do we ignore how good was that team because of the result? Or is it because the focus had been on Gninja (plot/training)? I do think they were all powerful and I did put them all on the poll but Noivern.

That’s not really something unique to Kalos. None of the Pokémon excluding the “regional aces” period have a lot of votes, that’s probably because of the regional ace formula itself, where one of Ash’s Pokémon is head and shoulders stronger above the others.

That’s actually one of the aspects I think JN does better- each of Ash’s Pokémon can be considered powerhouses in their own ways and are formidable in their own right. The ones that weren’t were developed (albeit with flawed and rushed development) to reach the point, to the point that even Sirfetch’d had good feats. And that can actually be seen in the poll as the entire JN team has 3+ votes.

Personally, I consider Dragonite to be stronger than most people are making it out to be. It’s easily at a “regional ace” level, it just had the misfortune to share a series with the ultimate favourite.

A tentative list for the Strongest 6 would be (excluding Pikachu):
Charizard, Greninja, Sceptile, Infernape, Lucario <> Mega Lucario, Dragonite

Incineroar is potentially up there as it defeated the strongest Pokémon in Alola (which actually had battle experience and wasn’t “SM”-level nerfed) without even being fully evolved, but the only reason it hasn’t made to the list is we haven’t seen it battle post evolution.

Honourable mentions:
1. Naganadel: it literally went toe to toe with Tapu Koko in its first official battle and it didn’t even know how Pokémon training worked at the time.
2. Snorlax
3. Sirfetch’d for singlehandedly weakening Cynthia’s Garchomp with one move.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

tbh... i feel like its also a popularity contest sometimes (Which is why mons like Lucario and Greninja get overrated strenght wise... especially looking at their feats, compared to mons like Talonflame for example and the 2 Incineroar votes for me aren't that surprising because of it, despite it not having any feats to speak off compared to other mons on this list) and people vote for their faves (Despite that... me as a person who has Glalie as a favorite could have given it that 1 vote... but i didn't... cuz while its strong and in the top 10... its deffo not in the strongest six after Journeys).

Also, most people aren’t using your win-rate calculative metric as each series had differing levels of plot armour and they faced a different amount of metrics. You can’t really use win rates to compare Talonflame and Goodra for instance because Talonflame was used in more battles and has more chances to show off a good performance. Many Pokémon were used disproportionately and this reflects their “stats”. People aren’t judging by stats but how the narrative presents these Pokémon, which cannot be summarised by win stats. Also, Lucario and Greninja physiologically are the same Pokémon even if they’re powered up, so it is valid for people to class them as the same Pokémon.

I don’t think it’s fair of you to accuse people of playing favourites and voting by popularity because they don’t use your arbitrary calculations for their decisions. Incineroar literally defeated the strongest Pokémon in all of Alola (which had plenty of experience, as Kukui actually undertook battles and trained his Pokémon), and it did this when unevolved. This feat would have more value than Talonflame defeating 5-6 gyms because the opponent here is massive, unlike your regular gym battle.

People have different definitions of “strongest” and that’s why I don’t like this particular question and refrained to post a lot. Each person thinks different feats are strong and their opinions are just as valid. Just because they didn’t pull out the calculator like you doesn’t mean they’re biased. When writers write a narrative, they don’t calculate win rates, they look at the overall plot. Their work is to show the Pokémon being strong by methods that go just beyond wins and losses by methods like public reactions. Ash losing Dragonite and Gengar was treated as HUGE in the narrative even though Gengar’s calculator record isn’t great. The narrative thus implies it to be strong. This is not a battle stimulator, this is a story.

 

[NotAPassenger]

If I was building his ultimate team, I’d say:

Pikachu
Charizard
Snorlax
Greninja
Lucario
Gengar

 

[nickdt]

Also, most people aren’t using your win-rate calculative metric as each series had differing levels of plot armour and they faced a different amount of metrics. You can’t really use win rates to compare Talonflame and Goodra for instance because Talonflame was used in more battles and has more chances to show off a good performance. Many Pokémon were used disproportionately and this reflects their “stats”. People aren’t judging by stats but how the narrative presents these Pokémon, which cannot be summarised by win stats. Also, Lucario and Greninja physiologically are the same Pokémon even if they’re powered up, so it is valid for people to class them as the same Pokémon.

I don’t think it’s fair of you to accuse people of playing favourites and voting by popularity because they don’t use your arbitrary calculations for their decisions. Incineroar literally defeated the strongest Pokémon in all of Alola (which had plenty of experience, as Kukui actually undertook battles and trained his Pokémon), and it did this when unevolved. This feat would have more value than Talonflame defeating 5-6 gyms because the opponent here is massive, unlike your regular gym battle.

People have different definitions of “strongest” and that’s why I don’t like this particular question and refrained to post a lot. Each person thinks different feats are strong and their opinions are just as valid. Just because they didn’t pull out the calculator like you doesn’t mean they’re biased. When writers write a narrative, they don’t calculate win rates, they look at the overall plot. Their work is to show the Pokémon being strong by methods that go just beyond wins and losses by methods like public reactions. Ash losing Dragonite and Gengar was treated as HUGE in the narrative even though Gengar’s calculator record isn’t great. The narrative thus implies it to be strong. This is not a battle stimulator, this is a story.

Here is the thing... i don't look at Winrates either... i look at feats and overall impact on a region (Its also how i determine the ace of a region, which isn't by default the strongest mon), which is the overall plot. Also, using your win rate argument for the Talonflame vs Goodra example is exactly why you cannot look at winrates at all... because it goes both ways... people see Goodra as stronger than Talonflame because it has a better win loss rate... which isn't that hard if you compare the amount of battles (If you battle more, you lose more). If we only look at winrates to determine the strenght of a Pokemon, Pikachu and Charizard aren't even in top 15, due to them having more losses due to their amount of battles, and on the other end of the spectrum it makes Goodra look better than it actually is due to it having gotten more wins than losses and as such having a better win/loss ration than both Hawlucha and Talonflame, but it has also battled significantly less, so there is room to lose less. Here is where feats come into play... Talonflame has a lower win/loss percentage than Hawlucha, but in terms of feats, Talonflame outshines Hawlucha big time and in the end for me... feats determine the strenght of a Pokemon... not its wins or losses (Because a Pokemon that is the last sweeper obviously wins more than it loses... but it depends on how it wins, especially if the defeated Pokemon got to defeat the assist Pokemon of the winning Pokemon beforehand, this is also why i rate Charizard vs Articuno higher than Darkrai vs Sceptile, because Charizard vs Articuno was a 1v1... while Darkrai vs Sceptile wasn't, as Darkrai faced three other Pokemon before Sceptile, does this mean that Sceptile is weak... oh no... but it does mean its weaker than Charizard who has proven itself 1v1 vs a legendary, while at the same time i rate Sceptile higher than Infernape... cuz Infernape relied on blaze a lot... while Sceptile didn't rely on Overgrow a lot to defeat stronger opponents).

You also say they look at public reactions... which leads into my popularity contest argument (Since Hawlucha, Goodra, Noivern and Talonflame stand no chance due to Greninja's popularity in that case or you hardly hear about Gliscors feats because of Infernape and Gible being a thing). Do i fault the writers or the mons for that... obviously not.. since its only normal they focus on the Pokemon that are the most profitable. But i feel like because of this... a lot of Pokemon and their feats get overlooked by the more popular ones, who in some cases, don't always deserve the praise they get compared to their teammates in terms of feats (Thats why i said it feels like a popularity contest).

Like, there is no contest Infernape and Sceptile are the strongest in Hoenn and Sinnoh, because their feats have proven them (Not their winrates).

However, in Sceptiles case, it doesn't mean its the full proven ace... since it had Swellow to content with as well and i think we can all agree Glalie outshone both Grovyle and Swellow during the league. So Hoenn actually had 3 aces... one raw Power ace (Glalie) and 2 aces based on feats and impact on the region (Which Glalie was gonna lose anyways cuz it came so late).

However, Infernape is aces in all three categories, since it has proven itself in all three.

Then there is Unova... who had the ace feat and raw power ace be Krookodile, but the impact ace was Pignite.

In Kalos, the feat and impact ace was Talonflame... while Ash-Greninja was the Mega Power ace... Talonflame however, was the regular power ace.

I disagree about Incineroar as well.... because here is the thing... Incineroar literally defeated the strongest Pokemon in all of Alola... which isn't that impressive if you look at the fact that both Pokemon fought a battle beforehand and Torracat needed that plot armor flame power-up as well. Lycanroc, on the other hand... not only solo'd a Kahuna, but also granting Ash his championship win after defeating Gladions Lycanroc. Incineroar isn't the ace in Alola, nor is it the strongest mon (Lycanroc is the overall ace, with Rowlet being a close second due to it fighting the most trials)

In Journeys, the Raw power ace was probably Sirfetch'd, but Dracovish eventually proved to have the most impact, while the feat ace was either Dragonite or Lucario (This one you can debate about since there isn't a clear winner, since Lucario brought Ash into Masters Eight, while Dragonite brought Ash into both the Super and Hyper ranks)... but overall i feel like Lucario is the feat ace because of having done more than Dragonite in Hyper rank and Masters Eight.

In Kanto, there is no contest (Charizard) and i don't particularly count Johto... as the Johto mons had to contest with the Kanto starters for half of the region in terms of battling gym leaders.

Now obviously... if i wouldn't be counting the regional teams... Pikachu is obviously the ace in every region.

And i never obviously said other peoples opinons aren't valid... and if i gave off that impression... i obviously apologize because that wasn't and isn't the main point of my post. I just don't like how some Pokemon get overlooked based on the feats, because they are also strong in their own right.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

because here is the thing... Incineroar literally defeated the strongest Pokemon in all of Alola... which isn't that impressive if you look at the fact that both Pokemon fought a battle beforehand

Since both Pokémon battled before, it neutralises it. I haven’t really seen this argument for any other matchup where the aces were brought out before.

Torracat needed that plot armor

Other Pokémon also did, that doesn’t really impact anything. Greninja got an entire plot armor form and it’s at the top of everyone's lists.

Lycanroc, on the other hand... not only solo'd a Kahuna, but also granting Ash his championship win after defeating Gladions Lycanroc

Just because a Pokémon made the final, winning hit in the battle doesn’t make it more powerful.

Everyone in SM had lower than usual power levels, except for Kukui's Incineroar which was literally the only Pokémon in the saga to have battle experience, and more battle experience than trainers in other sagas. Defeating Incineroar was recognised even in show, as a feat in all of Alola beyond the Gladion victory.

 

[nickdt]

Just because a Pokémon made the final, winning hit in the battle doesn’t make it more powerful.

This right here is what i mean... i put that Lycanroc and Incineroar example in to get this comment... because that argument goes both ways.

Just because Incineroar brought in the final winning hit against Kukuis Incineroar... doesn't make it more powerful, especially since Lycanroc has the better, more impressive feats (Soloing a Kahuna and defeating Gladions Lycanroc). Incineroar still has to show that feat of soloing a Kahuna 1v3.

Its the same as people saying Lucario is stronger than Sirfetch'd (Only using the example here) due to it bringing down Cynthia's Garchomp... but they forego Sirfetch'd weakening Garchomp beforehand and Lucario, despite damaged... still needing Mega Evolution to even come close to defeat Cynthia... and they also forego Sirfetch'd feats beforehand... where it literally defeated the Mega Ace of an Elite 4 member without needing to Mega Evolve itself. Does this make Lucario weak... nope it doesn't... but only looking at ones Pokemon feats on the team makes that one Pokemon stand out from the others strenght wise... despite having the worse feats out of the entire Journeys team.

 

[Imtnt]

Sun & Moon
Snorlax

Maybe it is because of the method, or because Im not leting in Snorlax in current situation - BUT can't agree with that . Both Lycanroc and Incineroar could be better than Snorlax at the level Ash trained them : Fully evolved, won against their exp rivals, Z moves, Connection with Ash, Ash was a greater trainer, they got a trophy and the win against Regional top trainer.

Incineroar is potentially up there as it defeated the strongest Pokémon in Alola (which actually had battle experience and wasn’t “SM”-level nerfed) without even being fully evolved, but the only reason it hasn’t made to the list is we haven’t seen it battle post evolution.

Just because a Pokémon made the final, winning hit in the battle doesn’t make it more powerful.

Everyone in SM had lower than usual power levels, except for Kukui's Incineroar...

I always say Lycanroc and Incineroar were tight as hell. If anything meaningful the most its Pikachu vs Tapu Koko... Don't make Lycanroc progress any less though, it is the other way around. Just think about how Ash trained it, the connection with Ash, the evolution, the type, the raw power, and what kind of victory it was against Gladion's team (who wasnt out og exp..). You can't minimize that.

That’s actually one of the aspects I think JN does better- each of Ash’s Pokémon can be considered powerhouses in their own ways and are formidable in their own right.

I agree, the poll shows that.

Personally, I consider Dragonite to be stronger than most people are making it out to be. It’s easily at a “regional ace” level, it just had the misfortune to share a series with the ultimate favourite.

If we put Pikachu and Lucario aside, its hard to say who shined the most. For me its Sirfetch'd. Gengar could get the extra points as the most effective coverage plus Gmax... but Sirfetch'd was more about raw power and connection with Ash. Many will say its Dracovish and Dragonite. I guess its going to be an endless debate.

Honourable mentions:
3. Sirfetch’d for singlehandedly weakening Cynthia’s Garchomp with one move.

Plus: 1. Won a matchup before and took the mines down so Lucario wont take the hit. 2. His connection with Dracovish made a good impact on how Dracovish ended (almost was the joke of Jns if anyone remembers).

Its the same as people saying Lucario is stronger than Sirfetch'd (Only using the example here) due to it bringing down Cynthia's Garchomp... but they forego Sirfetch'd weakening Garchomp beforehand..

Also, If we highlight the final round against Leon, as it was the main event, Lucario took a step back while the other pokemon got their step forward. In my eyes it is for the mega evolution option plus the smart use of moves makes him in the ultimate 6. But sure for some it will be the overpowered aura state, or for some it will be Cynthia's Garchomp as a bigger challenge than Darkrai / Articuno / Tapus / MCX / you name it.

 

[-PokemonBattleFanatic-]

Maybe it is because of the method, or because Im not leting in Snorlax in current situation - BUT can't agree with that . Both Lycanroc and Incineroar could be better than Snorlax at the level Ash trained them : Fully evolved, won against their exp rivals, Z moves, Connection with Ash, Ash was a greater trainer, they got a trophy and the win against Regional top trainer.

Did Lycanroc and Incineroar both get Z-Moves that were as powerful as Pikachu's?

For the longest I always considered Snorlax to be Ash's biggest tank where it can absorb a lot of blows and still keep going.It's been shown in the past to consistently KO 2 of the opponent's pokemon before falling.Against Forntier Brain Greta it took a lot of punishment while defeating 2 of her pokemon who both had an advantage over Snorlax.

 

[Imtnt]

Did Lycanroc and Incineroar both get Z-Moves that were as powerful as Pikachu's?

For the longest I always considered Snorlax to be Ash's biggest tank where it can absorb a lot of blows and still keep going.It's been shown in the past to consistently KO 2 of the opponent's pokemon before falling.Against Forntier Brain Greta it took a lot of punishment while defeating 2 of her pokemon who both had an advantage over Snorlax.

I know what you mean, Snorlax is def up there with the strongest.. poll shows that even after everything some would build a team with him even though Jns team got lots of options. Everything you said till XY is prob what everyone thinks. What I was trying to say is that for me SM back then did bring 2 pokemon that could get in his 6.

About the Zmove part, it is complicated..

Spoiler: Vs Pika's

In the bottom line I think Lycanroc's Z move could do as harm as Pikachu's Z move to Leon's strongest pokemon.
On the one hand Pikachu's Z move wasn't a finishing move in the final. On the other hand we saw it shouldn't miss.

Spoiler: Is it strong

We saw moves with less of a show, were doing too much harm in m8.
We saw Gmax moves miss/tanked/fooled too much in m8 ; since the very start Leon vs Alain.
It seems fair to say Zmove might be strongest option in general. Only Ash used one. We might never know for sure.