Pokemon Scarlet and Violet anime (MODS' UPDATE 23/08/2022)

[Sakuraa]

It's all about appearances; JN marketing has focused really heavily on getting hype, which is why, say, they show the reserves in a preview trailer but they just pop up for a few seconds in the actual episode, or why they gave Ash shillmon--Dragonite's capture hit trending for a while when it happened--but then don't give them as much to do as previous teams.

A world tournament after the Alola win went viral is going to generate more interest than another badge quest, regardless of how high the competition level is supposed to be (and much like the games I suspect the Galar league's high level of trainer skill would just be "take our word for it" in the end).

Sorry, but I still don't see why that would make Ash doing a Galar gym journey a downgrade. I'm sure people would still have been hyped to see Ash battling in a professional gym league which is basically a sport. Ash would have essentially been an athlete gaining fans all across the region. Surely people would get excited about that? And then to challenge Leon, the unbeatable champion, after all of that? It would have been amazing imo. So, I stand by the opinion that Galar's gym challenge would have been fine for Ash, Alola win or not.

 

[Unireon]

It's all about appearances; JN marketing has focused really heavily on getting hype

Journeys is all about facades, without any substance behind/beneath.

They practically messed up/shafted/wasted everything that could have been developed/worked with.
And there were many things/ideas that could have been appealing if they focused on instead of dropping them.

Worst of all was Galar being the region the anime utterly neglected/mistreated.

I'd rather have another Badge Quest than any of the staff's experiments.
For a new Series with no shilling/pandering and without Writer's Pets and Karma Houdinis.

 

[Daren]

Sorry, but I still don't see why that would make Ash doing a Galar gym journey a downgrade. I'm sure people would still have been hyped to see Ash battling in a professional gym league which is basically a sport. Ash would have essentially been an athlete gaining fans all across the region. Surely people would get excited about that? And then to challenge Leon, the unbeatable champion, after all of that? It would have been amazing imo. So, I stand by the opinion that Galar's gym challenge would have been fine for Ash, Alola win or not.

Respectfully, you're assuming a Galar league gym challenge would have all this cool stuff, but I highly doubt it because there are ton of cool things they could have done with the PWC and haven't.

And then to challenge Leon, the unbeatable champion

This is exactly what JN is already doing and nobody seems hyped at all.

 

[Sakuraa]

Respectfully, you're assuming a Galar league gym challenge would have all this cool stuff, but I highly doubt it because there are ton of cool things they could have done with the PWC and haven't.


This is exactly what JN is already doing and nobody seems hyped at all.

Because I wrote my first post based on the idea that they would have written a hypothetical Galar focused anime closely to the games, so that is what I am basing my ideas off of. My point was that if they did the league challenge in the anime exactly (or very closely) as it is done in the games, I personally think that would have been interesting enough of a challenge for Ash regardless of his Alola win. Before Alola they followed the games pretty closely, so if that trend continued, my guess is that a Galar series would have followed Sword and Shield's gym scenario.

 

[Sai]

The Gym formula has been gone for 6 years by November, and I'm pretty sure the writers themselves are bored with it since both BW and XY prove there's nowhere to take that formula anymore. If you remove the initial hype moments of XY, it really is just another generic Gym formula for the millionth time with the same exact outcome. Ash only loses to 1 or 2 Gym leaders at most each series, beats all the others his first try, and loses the league. Most episodes in XY outside of the plot stuff was the same generic filler recycled since the Johto/AG days. Ash's rivals were introduced at the last minute too.

I liked XY and it's probably my third favorite series overall, but I would be lying if I said it did anything new or interesting with the Gym formula. It was just AG/DP formula again with some slight differences. I think that format is done for.

 

[Hidden Mew]

The Gym formula has been gone for 6 years by November, and I'm pretty sure the writers themselves are bored with it since both BW and XY prove there's nowhere to take that formula anymore. If you remove the initial hype moments of XY, it really is just another generic Gym formula for the millionth time with the same exact outcome. Ash only loses to 1 or 2 Gym leaders at most each series, beats all the others his first try, and loses the league. Most episodes in XY outside of the plot stuff was the same generic filler recycled since the Johto/AG days. Ash's rivals were introduced at the last minute too.

I liked XY and it's probably my third favorite series overall, but I would be lying if I said it did anything new or interesting with the Gym formula. It was just AG/DP formula again with some slight differences. I think that format is done for.

Calling the Gym formula generic is so weird to me. I understand that the basic setup is similar to what other series did, but I think that's really downplaying the differences. Ash losing to Viola in XY is handled differently compared to Ash losing to Roark in DP for example. I also think it really overlooks how Ash is still battling new characters with new Pokemon in new locations. The outcomes might be the similar, but if you care about seeing new Pokemon and characters from the games, that doesn't really matter, especially when the anime isn't really made with long time fans in mind. If that was the case, Ash would have been replaced ages ago or he would have won a game related region League sooner given how annoyed people were that he kept losing too.

I also think that you're projecting your opinions on the writers by saying that they're bored with the Gym formula. Alola didn't have Gyms and the Island Challenge wasn't really high on their priority list. I don't think that not doing the Galar Gym challenge necessarily meant that they were bored with the formula or didn't want to return to that setup. The PWC doesn't come off as this next big step for Ash or that the writers wanted to try something new. It felt more like they wanted Ash's goal to fit with the world tour gimmick of the series. He could be anywhere and still potentially have a PWC match instead of having to go to specific locations. Putting my feelings on how they handled both the world tour and PWC on the side for a moment, it felt more like they wanted to have a goal where they didn't need to devote a lot of time to battling. Most of his Hyper Class matches are the main focus of an episode, but the vast majority of his Normal and Great Class matches were basically short battles or setup for the episode's actual plot. Not to mention they had Ash battle quite a bit off screen.

I don't think it's really that impossible for them to go back the Gyms. It might not be likely and there's no guarantee that the games will have Gyms either, but I don't think that it would be impossible. At this point, a Gym challenge would be refreshing for the target audience. I definitely can't see them doing the PWC again. The games might have something new for the anime to work for instead, but I just don't really understand finding the Gym challenge to be that boring or generic.

 

[Sai]

As mentioned above, the games made a big deal out of the Galar Gym leaders in the marketing leading up to its release which would have likely enticed the writers to go back to the Gym formula after it being gone for SM, but still didn't do it. If Galar emphasized Gyms and the anime chose not to do it, why would they go back to it in the next region where it'll likely not be emphasized as much?

As for your other post, if you count the major PWC battles we have just as many as Gym battles each region. Visquez, Korrina, Iris, Volkner, Bea (technically 3 times), Marnie, Drasna, and likely Paul is 8 major battles paced the same way 8 Gyms would be during a series. And this not even counting some of the bigger one on ones like the Rinto guy with the Gallade or the Meganium trainer from ep 20. Ash has had just as many major battles this series as he would of with 8 Gyms, I don't know where the idea that Ash isn't having battles on a regular basis is coming from.

 

[Kurolegacy]

Sorry, but I still don't see why that would make Ash doing a Galar gym journey a downgrade. I'm sure people would still have been hyped to see Ash battling in a professional gym league which is basically a sport. Ash would have essentially been an athlete gaining fans all across the region. Surely people would get excited about that? And then to challenge Leon, the unbeatable champion, after all of that? It would have been amazing imo. So, I stand by the opinion that Galar's gym challenge would have been fine for Ash, Alola win or not.

Even more so after how casual that the Alola League had been. It would be akin to going from Easy mode to Hard mode in a video game.

 

[LuxrayOfTheWild]

Even more so after how casual that the Alola League had been. It would be akin to going from Easy mode to Hard mode in a video game.

You have at least two Gym Leaders in Galar who are close to Champion level. Kabu's league cards mentions he has come close to being Champion a few times, but always seems to lose at the last moment. Raihan has been stated to be easily capable of taking down any other Champion in any other region. That's the big difference here from past leagues. Galar in canon is more like hard mode.

Also the other thing to really keep in mind is the writers aren't keeping in mind long term fans. They're looking at kids who are around 6-12. Fans who started at Sun and Moon or Journeys and are still watching have never seen a badge quest.

 

[Hidden Mew]

As mentioned above, the games made a big deal out of the Galar Gym leaders in the marketing leading up to its release which would have likely enticed the writers to go back to the Gym formula after it being gone for SM, but still didn't do it. If Galar emphasized Gyms and the anime chose not to do it, why would they go back to it in the next region where it'll likely not be emphasized as much?

I think you're ignoring my point on how they wanted Ash's goal to match with the world tour gimmick of the series. If they wanted Journeys to be a more episodic series, which is was arguably at least during its first year, and wanted to showcase different regions as opposed to staying in just Galar or one specific region, then having a goal like the PWC would fit more than the Galar Gym challenge. I think it's less of a case of the writers being uninterested in Gyms and more like they wanted Ash to potentially make progress with his goal regardless of where he travels to. That would be more of the major selling point than just not wanting to do Gyms again.

As for your other post, if you count the major PWC battles we have just as many as Gym battles each region. Visquez, Korrina, Iris, Volkner, Bea (technically 3 times), Marnie, Drasna, and likely Paul is 8 major battles paced the same way 8 Gyms would be during a series. And this not even counting some of the bigger one on ones like the Rinto guy with the Gallade or the Meganium trainer from ep 20. Ash has had just as many major battles this series as he would of with 8 Gyms, I don't know where the idea that Ash isn't having battles on a regular basis is coming from.

I'm not saying that Ash doesn't have battles on a regular basis. I'm saying that for at least the first half of the PWC, the battles were often treated like footnotes. There were still battles that were the main focus of an episode, but that didn't start being more consistent until the Hyper Class. He had a lot of battles against one shot characters or matches that were done off-screen, which didn't give a great first impression of this new goal for me. Sometimes the matches were just setups for the real plot like with Ash getting Riolu's egg or the whole Pikachu's jealousy over Riolu. That didn't make me think that the writers were tired of Gyms and wanted to do anything to avoid them. That made me think that they didn't want to devote a lot of time to Ash's battles. They have given more focus on his matches since the Hyper Class, but for me, it still feels too little, too late on making the PWC an engaging goal, even though I've heard good things about some of those later battles.

 

[Sai]

And yet they could have kept the world tour format and still focused on Galar Gyms. For example Ash could still travel to other regions with Go and then go to Galar for a Gym match after every 15 episodes or so like usual. They purposely ignored the games marketing the Galar Gyms showing their lack of interest in it.

Anyway I don't think there's been a lack of battling at all, we just passed the 100 episode in the series and we've had major battles every regular intervals of eps.

 

[Hidden Mew]

And yet they could have kept the world tour format and still focused on Galar Gyms. For example Ash could still travel to other regions with Go and then go to Galar for a Gym match after every 15 episodes or so like usual. They purposely ignored the games marketing the Galar Gyms showing their lack of interest in it.

I still think that you're projecting your own feelings about the Gym challenge on the writers. I already pointed out that part of the appeal of the PWC would be that Ash didn't have to be in a specific location to make progress. He could do it potentially anywhere, so they wouldn't have to go to specific Gyms. I'd argue that the setup was a double edge sword, but I don't think that avoiding the Galar Gyms necessarily meant that they weren't interested in the Gym formula or were desperate to avoid it.

I still think it had more to do with the more episodic approach Journeys had at the beginning and not wanting to put a lot of attention on Ash's battles, at least initially. The fact that they haven't really handled the world tour setup might be a factor too. Despite that being the basis for Journeys, they don't really spend a lot of time outside of Kanto and have rarely gone to Galar. With how they've handled the world tour, I don't know if they'd be willing to revisit Galar, or really any region that isn't Kanto, that consistently.

Anyway I don't think there's been a lack of battling at all, we just passed the 100 episode in the series and we've had major battles every regular intervals of eps.

Again, I don't think that you're understanding what I'm saying, if not just ignoring my points. I'm not saying that there have been a lack of battles. I'm saying that half of the PWC, basically the first two ranks, was mostly put on the sidelines. We still got some episodes focused specifically on it, but a lot of it was treated like a footnote or done off screen. They were not the main focus and didn't get more consistent focus until Ash started his battles in the Hyper Class.

 

[Alola]

Also the other thing to really keep in mind is the writers aren't keeping in mind long term fans. They're looking at kids who are around 6-12. Fans who started at Sun and Moon or Journeys and are still watching have never seen a badge quest.

I feel like people keep forgetting this, online anyway. The current (and intended) demographic doesn't have our history of the series since 1997, if they aren't actively looking for it - and Pokémon is pretty bad regarding putting its older episodes out there for free, public consumption. There's merit in animating Gym Challenges because of that, as well as doing focus episodes featuring older Pokémon.

 

[FelipePR]

The Gym formula has been gone for 6 years by November, and I'm pretty sure the writers themselves are bored with it since both BW and XY prove there's nowhere to take that formula anymore. If you remove the initial hype moments of XY, it really is just another generic Gym formula for the millionth time with the same exact outcome. Ash only loses to 1 or 2 Gym leaders at most each series, beats all the others his first try, and loses the league. Most episodes in XY outside of the plot stuff was the same generic filler recycled since the Johto/AG days. Ash's rivals were introduced at the last minute too.

- I'm interested to see what the next generation anime will look like. It seems to me that, when trying to reinvent itself, the anime ended up losing itself even more (Luckily, with the games the opposite seems to be happening). Therefore, I am curious to find out what the proposal of this new generation will be.

 

[Die-Hard Dragon Devotee]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, but Ash's gym badge questing days are probably over for good.

 

[Nicolas721]

Two random thoughts:

• Chloe looks very similar to the female protagonist, even if it's just because of the braid. That may increase her chances to continue in the cast if she gets a similar outfit like Ash did previously, but of course, given that Selene and Gloria didn't even get cameos we shouldn't expect much.
• I can see the series not premiering until Spring 2023. The main reason is that it would give the series time to recoup from its 1000 breaks and have a more satisfactory ending. The secondary reason is that game promotion isn't as important anymore (despite Journeys premiering in November it only had extremely minor SWSH promotion until December, and don't get me started on the DLC or the other games) so they can surprise us with a late premiere. That would also allow Nintendo to be more generous with the information given about the games as the latter they give the information the less dangerous it is to leak. The problem is that the Master Class seems to be pointing to a Summer premiere, but they can still do whatever fillers they want.

 

[Kurolegacy]

Two random thoughts:

• Chloe looks very similar to the female protagonist, even if it's just because of the braid. That may increase her chances to continue in the cast if she gets a similar outfit like Ash did previously, but of course, given that Selene and Gloria didn't even get cameos we shouldn't expect much.
• I can see the series not premiering until Spring 2023. The main reason is that it would give the series time to recoup from its 1000 breaks and have a more satisfactory ending. The secondary reason is that game promotion isn't as important anymore (despite Journeys premiering in November it only had extremely minor SWSH promotion until December, and don't get me started on the DLC or the other games) so they can surprise us with a late premiere. That would also allow Nintendo to be more generous with the information given about the games as the latter they give the information the less dangerous it is to leak. The problem is that the Master Class seems to be pointing to a Summer premiere, but they can still do whatever fillers they want.

I disagree on the prospect that game advertisement isn’t important in the anime anymore. While Galar got the short end of the stick due to the prospect of a franchise celebration, there was still a lot of Gen 8 advertisement:

1)Leon is the main goal for Ash and everyone else competing in the PWC just as he is in the games

2)Even for it being a world tournament Galar is the location of the Masters 8 battles

3)They went through the Darkest Day storyline even if they did speedrun it

4)The Galar starters are treated as the mascots of Journeys even if it is in a shallow way

5)Ash was given both G-Max Pikachu and Gengar with them even introducing the mechanic of Max Soup to grant a Pokémon G-Max

6)Cara Less herself appeared in a major way with the exact same method of creating Galar Fossil Pokémon as the games with 2 of them even joining the main cast’s ownership

Even outside of SwSh advertisement, you had advertisement of BDSP and Legends with both the Winter Special and Amazon Prime special around the time of their releases and even having Dawn make the most returns out if any previous companion. While the advertisement wasn’t as in your face as usual due to this basically being a series for a major anniversary for the franchise, it‘s definitely still there.

 

[Alola]

Two random thoughts:

• Chloe looks very similar to the female protagonist, even if it's just because of the braid. That may increase her chances to continue in the cast if she gets a similar outfit like Ash did previously, but of course, given that Selene and Gloria didn't even get cameos we shouldn't expect much.
• I can see the series not premiering until Spring 2023. The main reason is that it would give the series time to recoup from its 1000 breaks and have a more satisfactory ending. The secondary reason is that game promotion isn't as important anymore (despite Journeys premiering in November it only had extremely minor SWSH promotion until December, and don't get me started on the DLC or the other games) so they can surprise us with a late premiere. That would also allow Nintendo to be more generous with the information given about the games as the latter they give the information the less dangerous it is to leak. The problem is that the Master Class seems to be pointing to a Summer premiere, but they can still do whatever fillers they want.

I disagree on the prospect that game advertisement isn’t important in the anime anymore. While Galar got the short end of the stick due to the prospect of a franchise celebration, there was still a lot of Gen 8 advertisement:

1)Leon is the main goal for Ash and everyone else competing in the PWC just as he is in the games

2)Even for it being a world tournament Galar is the location of the Masters 8 battles

3)They went through the Darkest Day storyline even if they did speedrun it

4)The Galar starters are treated as the mascots of Journeys even if it is in a shallow way

5)Ash was given both G-Max Pikachu and Gengar with them even introducing the mechanic of Max Soup to grant a Pokémon G-Max

6)Cara Less herself appeared in a major way with the exact same method of creating Galar Fossil Pokémon as the games with 2 of them even joining the main cast’s ownership

Even outside of SwSh advertisement, you had advertisement of BDSP and Legends with both the Winter Special and Amazon Prime special around the time of their releases and even having Dawn make the most returns out if any previous companion. While the advertisement wasn’t as in your face as usual due to this basically being a series for a major anniversary for the franchise, it‘s definitely still there.

Kurolegacy didn't mention it, but they also have advertised SWSH through the music as they've done multiple anime renditions of the Galar Trainer, Wild, and Gym Battles - all of which are used regularly. One of the reasons I love the sub over the dub is because we get to hear wonderful anime renditions, that aren't lowered in volume in favor of voice acting to boot, of already lauded original soundtracks. As a viewer, it makes me more engaged with the content and the battles that often accompany them feel more impactful. Music is powerful. That they chose to implement SWSH music, along with Journeys own unique tracks, also speaks to the representation of Galar (even if it isn't the best).

 

[Die-Hard Dragon Devotee]

I disagree on the prospect that game advertisement isn’t important in the anime anymore. While Galar got the short end of the stick due to the prospect of a franchise celebration, there was still a lot of Gen 8 advertisement:

1)Leon is the main goal for Ash and everyone else competing in the PWC just as he is in the games

2)Even for it being a world tournament Galar is the location of the Masters 8 battles

3)They went through the Darkest Day storyline even if they did speedrun it

4)The Galar starters are treated as the mascots of Journeys even if it is in a shallow way

5)Ash was given both G-Max Pikachu and Gengar with them even introducing the mechanic of Max Soup to grant a Pokémon G-Max

6)Cara Less herself appeared in a major way with the exact same method of creating Galar Fossil Pokémon as the games with 2 of them even joining the main cast’s ownership

Even outside of SwSh advertisement, you had advertisement of BDSP and Legends with both the Winter Special and Amazon Prime special around the time of their releases and even having Dawn make the most returns out if any previous companion. While the advertisement wasn’t as in your face as usual due to this basically being a series for a major anniversary for the franchise, it‘s definitely still there.

Right. SwSh is very much still advertised in JN (albeit poorly.)

 

[Nicolas721]

I didn't say that the anime wasn't promoting the games, just that the timing wasn't as important as before. And while COVID is a valid reason, it still doesn't excuse Galar content arriving one month later in 2019 or the lack of Crown Tundra/Isle of Armor episodes. It's possible (just possible, not likely, not confirmed, just possible) that all the constraints make the producers push the series to 2023, lining it up with other major anime releases in April.