Mafia Mafia Wars: The Scum Menace - Endgame - Town/Independent Win

[CrackFox]

Re: Mafia Wars: The Scum Menace - Day 2 - Snapshots (6/21/13

What defense would you like me to give? I thought I'd been clear and communicated everything I have done.

There wasn't even any attention on me before I voted Noivern, so I'm not sure what to say in defense to that theory either.

What specifically are you accusing me of?

It's not your actions, it's the reason for them. You can't be clear about that, none of us can.

That's my point though. A smart player would establish attention onto someone else before it had a chance to come to them. Yesterday you had quite a few people questioning you as well.

I can't pretend to be 100% or even 50% but at the same time, I can't vote no-lynch every day phase. You are the person that is catching my attention. I can't 'accuse' you of anything because I don't claim to know anything. I've stated how your attitude rubs me the wrong way. Buoy's does as well, more so than you but Buoy, i'm used too.

- I didn't like the way you obsessed over SA joke vote on day one. It held the game up and it struck me as someone trying to cast and early fos. Townies also want to do that but not so willingly because the thought of lynching someone on their side, is always present.

-Your immediate vote on Noivern. Give him a chance to speak at least once before you potentially start a bandwagon and banish him from the game. For all we know, he could have the most beneficial role for the town. I know the mention thing has be debated but for someone who has just subbed in, especially in a game when the hosts mentions aren't working, it would have been the least you could do since you are already overwhelming the new guy with an immediate vote on his head.

That's all I have to say. It can be explained away prehaps. I might change my vote depending on what others have to say for themselves before phase change.

 

[Noivern]

Re: Mafia Wars: The Scum Menace - Day 2 - Snapshots (6/21/13

Maybe Mijz is a fool and the freezing the votes ability was meant to help him get himself lynched.

If that were the case I would've voted myself and frozen the votes, not noivern.

I've always felt that Phoenicks and Mij are hiding something from me.

Sometimes I think Phoenicks already knows who I am.

I thought buoy asked you to stop being vague.

So you want me to telegraph everything.

 

[Buoy]

Re: Mafia Wars: The Scum Menace - Day 2 - Snapshots (6/21/13

Maybe Mijz is a fool and the freezing the votes ability was meant to help him get himself lynched.

If that were the case I would've voted myself and frozen the votes, not noivern.

I've always felt that Phoenicks and Mij are hiding something from me.

Sometimes I think Phoenicks already knows who I am.

I thought buoy asked you to stop being vague.

So you want me to telegraph everything.

yes, please make sure you have it faxed in to me by tuesday morning

 

[Almonds]

Re: Mafia Wars: The Scum Menace - Day 2 - Snapshots (6/21/13

Freezing the votes may seem like a mafia ability, but I doubt mafia would actually try to use a role so early in the game when it could be useful later on. Like, when one of their members turned up mafia from a cop check? They could easily vote any townie (likely the cop) all at once, then freeze the votes. It would be a role worth saving than wasting early in the game. Besides, even if Mijz was mafia, there was still plenty of time for the mafia team to vote for a townie and save Mijz without using the ability.

The same can't be said for a townie having the role because townies don't know whether to trust one another - thus, if the townie can't get themselves proved, their ability won't work in the same way as mafia.

So I conclude that Mijz was a townie who used his role to save himself.

 

[Phoenicks]

Re: Mafia Wars: The Scum Menace - Day 2 - Snapshots (6/21/13

I'm a little baffled right now.

Harpy just claimed to be an independent who stole a role that reflects votes castes on her and is still trying to play as normal. What's her win condition? Why should we believe her?

If there's a vigilante, shoot her.

Crack fox: I did not intend Spectrum's vote to become an event. It generated a lot of discussion so I stopped trying to interrupt it. I voted Noivern specifically to generate discussion -- he was just in as a confirmed townie. It should honestly be standard policy to get people who sub back in to comment again -- you can compare them very directly.

Considering that Noivern is speaking like a mystic I feel justified.

I can't do anything about your feelings. But please Unvote me. I'm not scum.

Spectrum and Noivern: If you have any integrity as players please try to act better than you think I am. If you think mentioning votes is required, then you should mention me.

Not that you should be jumping on bandwagons or voting me anyways. It's day 2. The cases on me are -- do I have to say it? Gut feelings.

You're making it really hard to actually scumhunt.

 

[Buoy]

Re: Mafia Wars: The Scum Menace - Day 2 - Snapshots (6/21/13

Personally, I don't really believe Harpy's claim. The fact that she asked if the role sounded scummy before she outed her 'role' makes it seem as though she was trying to test what people's reactions to her claim would be if she were to claim the vote reflect ability, to be honest. Upon seeing that people were thinking it's a mafia sort of ability, she decided to claim independent, which wasn't really necessary, and explain her ability. If I were her, I wouldn't be so blatant about my role, especially when there was no real need for a roleclaim -- okay, I can understand it if she outed her role because she was outing a suspicious person as a result of her role, but she hasn't even done that. If it was me, I would've outed the person by now, but she hasn't. She doesn't even seem particularly afraid of getting killed. In fact, in spite of her win condition, she announces her role, endangering herself while providing no useful information to the town other than a scummy role is in play, and ALSO announces her plans to help the town, which even further endangers herself. Why would a survivor risk themselves like that? Surely they wouldn't try to forego their own wincon for the sake of helping the town.

Additionally, she hasn't even said whether SHE personally finds the role suspicious -- she just asked for other people's opinions on it, and then she clarified the role. She didn't agree or disagree that it was a scummy role, in spite of other people telling her that it was. Like, what do you want us to say? Clearly she has her own opinions, but she's not sharing them. Besides that, she particularly uses the word 'steal', yet nobody is claiming to have lost their ability. It's not much of a steal if she's not actually taking it from anyone.

Pretty much why I voted her, anyway.

@Harpy; Could you please out the person who you stole the role off of? It'd be appreciated.

 

[Almonds]

Re: Mafia Wars: The Scum Menace - Day 2 - Snapshots (6/21/13

@Phoenicks; Its said that its your responsibility to check the thread regularly if you're an active player. And if you yourself don't feel that mentioning players is necessary, then you, obviously as well, don't necessarily need to be mentioned.

But that aside, do you really want the vig to waste a kill on an Independent when we could very well use the vig's kill on mafia?

 

[Buoy]

Re: Mafia Wars: The Scum Menace - Day 2 - Snapshots (6/21/13

@Spectrum Achromatic; Would you like to suggest anyone in particular to be vigkilled? Why exactly do you believe that Harpy is independent?

 

[Almonds]

Re: Mafia Wars: The Scum Menace - Day 2 - Snapshots (6/21/13

@Spectrum Achromatic; Would you like to suggest anyone in particular to be vigkilled? Why exactly do you believe that Harpy is independent?

It's not because of the Independent claim itself that I'm hesitant on killing Harpy. It's because of the role she claimed. Was it even necessary for her to go to such lengths as to make up a role that people could hardly believe? She could've simply claimed Survivor and leave it at that and town and mafia alike both wouldn't target her unless they felt it was necessary.

Her complicated role makes it seem all the more believable to me. It's similar to a Mimic role, but with more details. If she was mafia, that would be an extremely overpowered role because after a rolecheck, they'd be borrowing all the power roles. If she's town, then it's OP as well because it'll function similarly as a secondary cop. It works when she'd Independent because she can use it to her advantage when she needs to bargain or something. Like, she borrowed a mafia ability, and if the town wants to lynch her, she could say she targeted someone and she got a mafia role, and then town would get an easy lynch.


I don't know who else we should use the vig-kill on, though.

 

[Buoy]

Re: Mafia Wars: The Scum Menace - Day 2 - Snapshots (6/21/13

@Spectrum Achromatic; Would you like to suggest anyone in particular to be vigkilled? Why exactly do you believe that Harpy is independent?

It's not because of the Independent claim itself that I'm hesitant on killing Harpy. It's because of the role she claimed. Was it even necessary for her to go to such lengths as to make up a role that people could hardly believe? She could've simply claimed Survivor and leave it at that and town and mafia alike both wouldn't target her unless they felt it was necessary.

Her complicated role makes it seem all the more believable to me. It's similar to a Mimic role, but with more details. If she was mafia, that would be an extremely overpowered role because after a rolecheck, they'd be borrowing all the power roles. If she's town, then it's OP as well because it'll function similarly as a secondary cop. It works when she'd Independent because she can use it to her advantage when she needs to bargain or something. Like, she borrowed a mafia ability, and if the town wants to lynch her, she could say she targeted someone and she got a mafia role, and then town would get an easy lynch.

Probably was necessary, yes. Fakeclaims are all about seeming as believable as possible, but it's really hard to do, which is probably why she felt the need to embellish it.

If she's mafia, she's probably lying about the role she's just claimed -- if I had to guess, I'd say her real role would be the vote reflect (providing she's fakeclaiming, which I think she is), and just claimed the role stealer to cover up the fact that that's her real role. We all can definitely conclude that she's not town, however. Yes, the role works for an independent, but her claim still doesn't make much sense in the face of what I just pointed out two posts ago.

 

[Froakie]

Re: Mafia Wars: The Scum Menace - Day 2 - Snapshots (6/21/13

Vote: J J M

Hasn't said a word yet the rules state a sub happens after 3 real life days of inactivity. Lurking in the background? Please respond.

 

[Phoenicks]

Re: Mafia Wars: The Scum Menace - Day 2 - Snapshots (6/21/13

@Spectrum Achromatic; Please don't be mean. We have a difference of opinion and you don't he to shove it in my face. It's a fight about mentions. It's not a big deal.

@Buoy; I'd rather lynch someone else jut to be sure, especially since I'm the person who would be lynched if Harpy couldn't be lynched.

Also: Harpy has not claimed her win condition. Even if it's only a Survivor role, there is no reason to think she will or should be pro-town with it.

 

[Buoy]

Re: Mafia Wars: The Scum Menace - Day 2 - Snapshots (6/21/13

@Phoenicks; We can just get everyone to unvote you, I guess. There's more solid evidence on her than there is on you, to be fair, and people should realise that.

And she did claim her wincon:

I just have to live till endgame

 

[Froakie]

Re: Mafia Wars: The Scum Menace - Day 2 - Snapshots (6/21/13

Harpy did say she needed to survive till end, I think

edit: ^ :c

Uh, to add to this, I see no reason this early on for Harpy to lie about her role. Maybe it'd be a clever trick for the mafia to do but I think that is quite risky. She could have just claimed town with the same role, it's not too overpowered if the role you pick up isn't permanent (is it?)

 

[Almonds]

Re: Mafia Wars: The Scum Menace - Day 2 - Snapshots (6/21/13

@Phoenicks; Harpy DID say her win condition

As this is no outside communications you don't have to worry about me allying with mafia. I just have to live till endgame but I'm still trying to help the town as I have a personal vendetta against mafia since they always nightkill me as mafia.

Also GM its a mix of things that I see Phoenicks as mafia.

 

[GliscorMan]

Re: Mafia Wars: The Scum Menace - Day 2 - Snapshots (6/21/13

I'm actually really confused as to why people are voting Phoenicks.

I read your explanations so far. There's no solid facts, not a single thing. All meta and WIFOM. In addition, all the "reasoning" behind lynching Phoenicks smells of the "reasoning" which got Noivern lynched last phase. Every specific event cited by the people in the "Nick is Scum Party" are the same events which were/are leading me to the opinion that Nick is Town.

 

[Phoenicks]

Re: Mafia Wars: The Scum Menace - Day 2 - Snapshots (6/21/13

@Spectrum Achromatic; Please stop being rude.

 

[Almonds]

Re: Mafia Wars: The Scum Menace - Day 2 - Snapshots (6/21/13

@Spectrum Achromatic; Please stop being rude.

Spoiler

Don't worry. If you flip town, we'll know for sure your top suspect is mafia.

 

[Froakie]

Re: Mafia Wars: The Scum Menace - Day 2 - Snapshots (6/21/13

Don't worry. If you flip town, we'll know for sure your top suspect is mafia.

It doesn't work like that, just because someone suspects a player and they turn out to be town doesn't make that person mafia.

 

[Pokemaster97]

Re: Mafia Wars: The Scum Menace - Day 2 - Snapshots (6/21/13

I don't really know where to begin with all of this... (The last 3 pages mostly occurred while I was asleep).

Let's start with Harpy's claim. I'm not sure about the validity of the claim, it's a role that could really go either way. Further more, the role tells us virtually nothing about possible other roles in the game, or the possible alignment of other players. However, if she's independent as she claims, she really doesn't have to do anything that helps the town or the mafia at all. All she has to do is make it to the end. I don't think she's scared of being lynched because she knows that if we lynch her and she flips independent like she claimed, we would have wasted a lynch. On the other hand, the mafia wouldn't want to go after her either, because if she was night killed, the mafia would have wasted a night killing off a non-town/non-power role.

Additionally, I don't understand the reasoning for voting Pheonicks, that was never quite clear to me while reading through the thread. Besides CrackFox, no one explained their votes on him. Can @Spectrum Achromatic; or Noivern care to elaborate a bit?
@Noivern; in particular is offputting. Idk what kind of act you're trying to do, but you've been generally unhelpful throughout the entire game.

@Buoy; is rather aggressive with his responses when there's not a lot of reason to be, but I think that could just be his playing style.

So tl;dr

FOS:Noivern

I'm not changing my vote on J J M at this time because I still would like to hear from him.