Back to Basics! Endgame(28/6/2015)

[Snowy]

Re: Back to Basics! Day 1(16/6/2015)

This is honestly what i was afraid of with The Pikachu. All the evidence against her was circumstantial, nothing solid.

And as an effect, if i'm wrong about Tyler, there is a very good chance we've lost the doctor too.

 

[The_Pikachu]

Re: Back to Basics! Day 1(16/6/2015)

Good luck town. Hope you can see through everything and I'm sorry if I caused a disturbance in the Force

 

[HumanDawn]

Re: Back to Basics! Day 1(16/6/2015)

This is honestly what i was afraid of with The Pikachu. All the evidence against her was circumstantial, nothing solid.

It was hardly circumstantial, she was contradicting herself all the time and she did something that is more likely to benefit the Mafia more. Her plan wasn't thought out at all either and she kept on showing it by asking TylerM what to do. If hers wasn't solid, then what is solid? A Cop check? Just because she flipped Town it doesn't mean that it wasn't solid, she wasn't acting Town at all and she kept on ignoring people and continuing to make no sense. TylerM outing as a real Doctor does make some sense at least, because one might feel they wouldn't be trusted if they didn't out immediately or just messaged somebody privately about it, like as if they could be scum hiding their identity.

And as an effect, if i'm wrong about Tyler, there is a very good chance we've lost the doctor too.

TylerM should be able to protect himself. He could target others, true, but that does bring a risk of the Mafia actually targeting him...

 

[Snowy]

Re: Back to Basics! Day 1(16/6/2015)

continuing to make no sense.

My point exactly. She had no plan. No strategy. And she contradicted herself far too often. I have to believe the mafia members have a plan, and Pikachu's stumbling played well into that plan.

 

[Figgles]

Re: Back to Basics! Day 1(16/6/2015)

Yes, but maybe the mafia was willing to sacrifice a member to fish claims, and would just kinda let it slide from there, try and bus the real one even.

But this is all irrelevant, as Pikachu was just a townie without any semblance of a plan :u

And now of course the cop should do whatever they see fit, but Tyler could still be mafia... Not that I think so, but being safe with a power role claim helps.

 

[HumanDawn]

Re: Back to Basics! Day 1(16/6/2015)

continuing to make no sense.

My point exactly. She had no plan. No strategy. And she contradicted herself far too often. I have to believe the mafia members have a plan, and Pikachu's stumbling played well into that plan.

I thought that in the context that The_Pikachu is Mafia, the plan would be to sacrifice her for a Doctor outing.

And now of course the cop should do whatever they see fit, but Tyler could still be mafia... Not that I think so, but being safe with a power role claim helps.

I disagree, the Cop should only check TylerM if they think they may be targeted later down the line and want protection and want to be sure before claiming to Tyler, or if there are Doctor counterclaims. Checking a Town member and using them as a dummy could be helpful for outing, so if there's another Doctor claim they could counter, but that brings in the possibility of a Cop counterclaim coming in so it would be better to wait a bit.

 

[Zexy]

Re: Back to Basics! Day 1(16/6/2015)

I've seen @Denial lurking the thread several times, but he hasn't made a post in a while. Any comments?

He denies to post

The_Pikachu has been lynched. She was a Villager.

Yeah… I call regular Pikachu bad town play. I was honestly hoping we wouldn’t get this after so many games with her, but eh. EH.he

Well, if TylerM is really our Doctor, then The_Pikachu has just done a big favour for the Mafia. We've lost 1 Town member for the cost of an early Doctor outing, and in the same game that had pages of discussion and debate as to why early outings of any kind are terrible. We'll just have to deal with the consequences and hope to still win. For what it's worth I've been getting Town reads from TylerM again lately.

Exactly. I am also inclined to believe TylerM is Town because he is the unCC’d Doctor. I don’t trust him completely, and would do more if Pikachu was mafia, but I am still inclined to trust him both for the claim and his posts.

I'm thinking of posting reads later today.

Same. This has suddenly become much more complicated.

 

[Snowy]

Re: Back to Basics! Day 1(16/6/2015)

And as an effect, if i'm wrong about Tyler, there is a very good chance we've lost the doctor too.

TylerM should be able to protect himself. He could target others, true, but that does bring a risk of the Mafia actually targeting him...

Why do you so firmly believe he really is the doctor?

I mean, with respect, you believed Pikachu was mafia and she wasn't. Don't you at least question your other assumptions?

 

[HumanDawn]

Re: Back to Basics! Day 1(16/6/2015)

Why do you so firmly believe he really is the doctor?

I mean, with respect, you believed Pikachu was mafia and she wasn't. Don't you at least question your other assumptions?

What are you talking about? I've always said that I think he's likely the Doctor and how it makes sense to believe he likely is unless there are counterclaims. That was a reply to you of how you said that if you're wrong about TylerM and that he's actually the Doctor, then that means we've lost the Doctor, and I told you that if that were the case, then we haven't necessarily lost the Doctor because TylerM should be able to protect themselves.

 

[Zexy]

Re: Back to Basics! Day 1(16/6/2015)

Extra big for lots of hours of reading xD
It has a bit too many vote counts sorry.

Spoiler

Confirmed.
Zexy, I thought I could have trusted you or something like that.

Just noting this post that happened on NIGHT 0! It was almost as if she has pre-decided to go against me initially.

Vote; The_Pikachu

I don't like the way she is branding HD scummy. She seems to really want to get him lynched and she's played games with him enough to know that he's a good player, he's complex and yes he definitely can be deceitful, but not always for the wrong reasons. I think she's threatened by HD and wants him lynched. I don't see a good reason to want him lynched for any other reason. I know others have voted for HD as well but she seems to be overly keen in her convictions towards him.

Just noting that CrackFox was the first person to vote for Pikachu.
At that point there was like, 2 votes for HD (jackatlasred, Tyler), 1 for me (Pikachu), 1 for Flop (HeroicPooch), 1 for Rabbit (HD).
Also note that CF voted Pika for branding HD scummy when she voted me, and HD had the most votes at the time (albeit not many).

UNVOTE: Rabbit
VOTE: The_Pikachu

And with this, Rabbit gets 0 while Pikachu gets 2, tying with Human.
2 votes for HD (jackatlasred, Tyler), 1 for me (Pikachu), 1 for Flop (HeroicPooch), 2 for Pikachu (CF, HD)

Seppe, who hasn't contributed much (although probably because of restricted time), throws in the 3rd vote, making it a bandwagon.
2 votes for HD (jackatlasred, Tyler), 1 for me (Pikachu), 1 for Flop (HeroicPooch), 3 for Pikachu (CF, HD, Seppe)

Flopjack votes Pikachu
2 votes for HD (jackatlasred, Tyler), 1 for me (Pikachu), 1 for Flop (HeroicPooch), 4 for Pikachu (CF, HD, Seppe, Flopjack)
Note that in between, Melpomene and jackatlasred don’t vote. There is always the possibility of them being maf not wanting to jump on the wagon.

You just made my suspicion list flop.

Jack suspects flop for jumping in, take note please because he is going to vote her later.

Then Melpomene votes off Pikachu. Doesn’t make her extremely scummy to me, as it was around the time we realized Pikachu’s plan was not this good of a plan. Anyways.
2 votes for HD (jackatlasred, Tyler), 1 for me (Pikachu), 1 for Flop (HeroicPooch), 5 for Pikachu (CF, HD, Seppe, Flopjack, Melpomene).

Spoiler

Aye Crackfox you know me too well, I master the late-to-the-game first post

So hello again - I'm back from seeing Jurassic World (2scary) and there's like 7 new pages. Okay. My opinions -

Claiming doc Day 1 to scumbait. Is.... scummy. Scummy equals mafia not, but it's just scummy and anti town. Unless you are the real doc, what you are going to get is 4 scenarios, this is assuming you are NOT the doctor but you ARE town. (as you claim)

1) Nobody cc's. Good for town as doctor remains hidden and mafia have a wrong target. But could render future doc clears unbelievable.
2) Somebody, non-mafia cc's you. Real doctor. Bad for town - mafia have 50/50 of getting doctor right.
3) Somebody, non-mafia cc's you. Not real doctor and faking. Not great for town. Causes confusion and mislyching.
4) Mafia cc's you. Not great for town as you pull out, there's only one doc claim who is mafia and may be believed. Third cc (real doctor) will cc and Mafia will know real doctor... probably

If you ARE the doc and are double bluffing, then a) mafia cc'd you so know you are good potential for doc or b) other town member cc'd you serving no real purpose but to divert attention away from someone they're not sure is town themselves.

Okay, after typing those out I'm conflicted if it's good or bad thing. But you got a CC. If TylerM is town, then mafia have a potential doc right out in the open. If TylerM is mafia - then we have an uncc'd mafia doc. lol. Also we don't know if you're telling the truth, so again, perhaps my little list up there is all just mind ramblings......... just something to think about, maybe.

In either case - did your scum hunting work as that - scum hunt, in your opinion? Do we all know more about who could or could not be mafia - or are we just left with a strange 2nd doc claim out in the open. On Day one. Is that good for the town? I don't think so. The doc role is potentially more important than the cop here, as cops can be easily CC'd. Yes the doc can save themselves, but they can also waste valuable saves on other members of the town - and the whole game turns into a loop of the doctor just saving themselves all game. There's no chance, no lucky/strategic guessing going on. It's literally.... just them saving themselves.... bluffing or not. IMO doc should never out in thread. Cop maybe (and probably/definitely later on) - but not doc this early. IMO, that is.

I'm going to withhold a vote for The_Pikachu for now. Although I am curious if you PMd HumanDawn first, and if so, why?

I don’t really like this post at that point. Froakie looks like she is contributing while she keeps discussing stuff that were mostly left aside by that point, while not wanting to jump on the Pikachu wagon. Especially when she sais that D1 scumbaiting is scummy but yet withholds the vote.
Next up, HeroicPooch removes the jokevote on Flop and starts going after Tyler
2 votes for HD (jackatlasred, Tyler), 1 for me (Pikachu), 1 for Tyler (HeroicPooch), 5 for Pikachu (CF, HD, Seppe, Flopjack, Melpomene).

unvote: HumanDawn
Just an info vote for me now.
vote: Flopjack
So umm I have three questions, @Flopjack;
What do you think of the pikachu lynch?
Why did you suddenly disappear? (This could be simple sleeping or life stuff.
What are your reads so far?

Even though HD was closer to being lynched, jackatlasred removed his vote from him and went for Flopjack. In the rest of the game, I haven’t seen him info-voting at all.
1 vote for HD (Tyler), 1 for Flop (jackatlasred), 1 for me (Pikachu), 1 for Tyler (HeroicPooch), 5 for Pikachu (CF, HD, Seppe, Flopjack, Melpomene).
And then Tyler voted Pikachu, but I am unsure if he unvoted HD, probably missed the post.
1 for Flop (jackatlasred), 1 for me (Pikachu), 1 for Tyler (HeroicPooch), 6 for Pikachu (CF, HD, Seppe, Flopjack, Melpomene, Tyler).
And at this point, Pikachu starts to panic. Takes vote off me, straight to Flop.
2 for Flop (jackatlasred, Pikachu), 1 for Tyler (HeroicPooch), 6 for Pikachu (CF, HD, Seppe, Flopjack, Melpomene, Tyler).

I know I am bandwagoning. I know it’s Oh My God You Sucked. Yet:
VOTE: The_Pikachu

I also take responsibility for this mislynch and wouldn’t have a problem voting her a bit earlier than seventh if I was around earlier.
2 for Flop (jackatlasred, Pikachu), 1 for Tyler (HeroicPooch), 7 for Pikachu (CF, HD, Seppe, Flopjack, Melpomene, Tyler, Zexy).

So there seem to be votes on Flopjack for no reason.

Just two. One from a person I see as scummy, who tried not to wagon, and a panic vote from the lynchee.

VOTE: Sword Master to show how serious I am of thinking of potentially lynching him Day 2 if I manage to live past N1. Like I said earlier but I don't think anyone gave any opinion on when I asked about it(Zexy might have probably said something), which I might have missed in the whole counterclaim confusion, he only voted, and then unvoted when called out on it, and when I ask him for any plans he's got to give me something to chew on, he says he just doesn't have any and will just follow any ones he finds good, without saying anything else, or even explaining what this "good" is, which is incredibly vague and unhelpful as not everyone has the same view on what is good or not, and that just gives him the leeway of never having to be called out on not doing anything when he's not following a "good plan".

I have to agree with you. Sword Master really voted for no one after taking off his joke, and doesn’t contribute at all.

unvote: flopjack
While I'm still cautious of you I'm thinking you can't possibly do much right now.
Vote: Heroic Pooch
You come in and suddenly vote for a person who claimed doctor, which many of us said would not be wise even if he was mafia. We need to keep all our power roles intact, even if it means keeping some mafia alive. I would forgive you because you're new, but because you're new I have all the more reason to suspect you.

What has Flop done again?
1 for Flop (Pikachu), 1 for HeroicPooch (jackatlasred), 1 for Tyler (HeroicPooch), 7 for Pikachu (CF, HD, Seppe, Flopjack, Melpomene, Tyler, Zexy).

Wait, what why are you voting for me just because I don't have a plan or opinion(yet). I need to catch up on the thread and see which plan has a greater chance of Lynching scum. I think that you voted for me as I am a newbie and I was inactive and I will be easier to lynch.Also it sounds like you threatening me with a lynch on D2.
Vote:Human Dawn
I think you voted me as I am a newbie and I will roll over meaning a easy lynch for you and scummy friends but NO I WILL NOT YET YOU WIN YOU PIECE OF SCUM, HUMAN DAWN!

You just picked the best moment to look active, right? Personal attack, OMGUS... you only vote when questioned about it, and your vote makes little sense.
1 for Flop (Pikachu), 1 for HD (Sword Master), 1 for HeroicPooch (jackatlasred), 1 for Tyler (HeroicPooch), 7 for Pikachu (CF, HD, Seppe, Flopjack, Melpomene, Tyler, Zexy).

Dammit I've always died after someone has an outburst. (I've only played 2 mafia games and one I didn't die so.)

Care to explain this more, please?

FINAL VOTE COUNT:
Flopjack I (The_Pikachu)
HumanDawn I (Sword Master)
HeroicPooch I (jackatlasred)
TylerM I (HeroicPooch)
The_Pikachu VII (CrackFox, HumanDawn, Seppe, Flopjack, Melpomene, TylerM, Zexy)

My top scum reads are Sword Master and jackatlasred. Lighter FoS on HeroicPooch and Froakie. Top town HumanDawn and TylerM.
Out of the people who voted Pikachu, I think that there is at least one mafia, but there are so many options and not too much else to decide.

1 @Rabbit; Would you please explain why you didn’t vote anyone, and why you disappeared as soon as you were out of HumanDawn’s hook?
2 @Denial; Please give us some insight, you haven’t posted at all IIRC.
3 @Gafigglethorp; @Froakie; No votes? Why?

 

[Figgles]

Re: Back to Basics! Day 1(16/6/2015)

Kind of lost track of this game in the latter half of the phase. Besides, I don't think another vote on that 7 vote wagon would matter much XP

 

[Zexy]

Re: Back to Basics! Day 1(16/6/2015)

Kind of lost track of this game in the latter half of the phase. Besides, I don't think another vote on that 7 vote wagon would matter much XP

The first part makes sense. It wouldn't matter much for her lynch, but it would let us get more reads on you. After all you didn't have to exclusively vote Pikachu.

 

[Snowy]

Re: Back to Basics! Day 1(16/6/2015)

Why do you so firmly believe he really is the doctor?

I mean, with respect, you believed Pikachu was mafia and she wasn't. Don't you at least question your other assumptions?

What are you talking about? I've always said that I think he's likely the Doctor and how it makes sense to believe he likely is unless there are counterclaims. That was a reply to you of how you said that if you're wrong about TylerM and that he's actually the Doctor, then that means we've lost the Doctor, and I told you that if that were the case, then we haven't necessarily lost the Doctor because TylerM should be able to protect themselves.

I quoted that reply for convenience. I want to know why you believe he's the doctor... and don't just quote something I may have read earlier.

I still believe he's mafia and I've seen nothing to change that.

 

[Figgles]

Re: Back to Basics! Day 1(16/6/2015)

If I voted, I would've gone Pikachu. Largely pointless to say this now, but given the circumstances then, it would've been the obvious choice. Plus, all the other votes didn't make much sense or were just to put pressure on that person.

 

[HumanDawn]

Re: Back to Basics! Day 1(16/6/2015)

I quoted that reply for convenience. I want to know why you believe he's the doctor... and don't just quote something I may have read earlier.

I still believe he's mafia and I've seen nothing to change that.

I don't believe he's the Doctor, just think he probably is. He's been giving me Town reads, his quick outing as a Doctor upon hearing a Doctor claim makes sense from a newbie Doctor who doesn't have much of an idea what to do and doesn't want to be not believed upon if they claimed too late upon hearing the claim. I would think that new scum would think more of asking their partners before doing something like this. Sure his outing was premature, but it doesn't mean he's instantly scum and I can't see anywhere that would make you "believe" he's Mafia, at least enough to vote him. If there's a counterclaim I'd definitely be doing some reconsideration, but it still is not good play to vote an uncounterclaimed Doctor. A Cop I'd understand voting if in the setup there's no Doctor and outed and the Mafia didn't kill them overnight, but not a Doctor who can protect themselves. In one of the games I hosted a Cop was uncounterclaimed, and till the very end of the game people suspected them, and in the last Night Phase, the Vigilante(a role that could kill a player in the Night Phase that is with the Town most of the time) had put their role on scum, but then in (literally) the last minutes changed it to the Cop because they thought they were acting scummy.

 

[jackatlasred]

Re: Back to Basics! Day 1(16/6/2015)

I told you guys the pikachu was town, I think we should target flopjack who looks suspicious. (I wanted to do this since I saw the zexy post).

Seriously though, I don't think I will, but I might die tonight so I just want to say Heroic and Flop might be mafia.

 

[HumanDawn]

Re: Back to Basics! Day 1(16/6/2015)

I told you guys the pikachu was town,

If you thought she was so Town then why not defend her extensively? I don't understand why you wouldn't, sure there would be an off chance she could be Mafia like you said, but if I really thought somebody was Town to the point I'd let everyone know that The_Pikachu was Town like as if I knew it was almost a fact after she flipped as such, I'd have defended them as much as I could have instead of letting them be lynched, then if I failed and she flipped Town, I'd say it.

 

[Zexy]

Re: Back to Basics! Day 1(16/6/2015)

I approve. Will elaborate.

This is what you said about the Pikachu lynch. Yet you did not vote her, because of supposedly a gut feeling.

unvote: flopjack

While I'm still cautious of you I'm thinking you can't possibly do much right now.

Vote: Heroic Pooch

Why should we go after Flopjack and not HeroicPooch who is your laterst vote, as far as I know?

As for pikachu I still think her lynch would help us.

So, why are you saying “See guys, I told you she was town!”?
Also look at this:

Not that my vote really matters. I mean, there have been enough people voting Pikachu to override my vote no matter what I choose to do.

I never agreed with this comment, which I've seen many times. It is a very good excuse for scum not to bandwagon over a mislynch and seem like they are trying to hunt other people. Not that it matters if she flips mafia, though.

I know this reply was not to your posts, but it pretty much applies to you as well. HeroicPooch questioned me over what I meant, and I elaborated:

Oh, I also meant that some people say that they don't join the bandwagon since their vote doesn't count as there are already too many votes, when the real reason they do it is so that they won't be suspected if the bandwagon turns out to be a mislynch. They can say, on the contrary "Told ya she is town! You should focus on X who is suspicious instead!"

Look at that last phrase, does it remind you of something @jackatlasred; ?

 

[jackatlasred]

Re: Back to Basics! Day 1(16/6/2015)

I told you guys the pikachu was town,

If you thought she was so Town then why not defend her extensively? I don't understand why you wouldn't, sure there would be an off chance she could be Mafia like you said, but if I really thought somebody was Town to the point I'd let everyone know that The_Pikachu was Town like as if I knew it was almost a fact after she flipped as such, I'd have defended them as much as I could have instead of letting them be lynched, then if I failed and she flipped Town, I'd say it.

I did end up saying my best defense did I not? It may have been weak but I said it was regular pikachu behavior, but you guys kept talking about her expirience. I saw her my first game not too long ago, I might add. She made it easy for me and Seppe to win the game, as she claimed she knew the cop in that game, you guys once again lynched her for claiming that. She then just blamed someone which I was afraid of in this game.

In the end my defense was weak and it mattered little, but I still defended the pikachu for what it's worth.
@Zexy; the parentheses says it all.

 

[Zexy]

Re: Back to Basics! Day 1(16/6/2015)

It was regular pikachu behavior, but you guys kept talking about her expirience. I saw her my first game not too long ago, I might add. She made it easy for me and Seppe to win the game, as she claimed she knew the cop in that game, you guys once again lynched her for claiming that. She then just blamed someone which I was afraid of in this game.

It was also regular pikachu behavior 1,5 years ago, right when both me and her played our first games. I would like to believe that her experience would make her come out with better plans than what we got.

There are still two things you haven't answered yet, though: Why Flop and not HeroicPooch, also what was that "getting killed in the outburst" comment of yours I noted in my wallpost?
EDIT: In case it was hard to find it in the wallpost, here it is:

Dammit I've always died after someone has an outburst. (I've only played 2 mafia games and one I didn't die so.)

EDIT 2: Which parentheses?