Mafia The Pokemon Starters Mafia (Mafia Wins)

[Elementar]

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if Froakie is actually mafia considering its final evolution.

What about me @Zexy?

 

[Snowy]

But can't the mafia kill off someone of the same type as themself in order to evolve sooner? That's clearly beneficial to the mafia more than to the town.

Not sure what you mean, but if I were mafia, I'd announce anything I can reveal to my mafia chat, and wouldn't need to claim it here.

 

[Calvinッ]

Im not sure why there was a claim here, it doesnt further town's progress at all, and helps Mafia, should one of them be Gen VI and/or Water type.

Can you expand on the "I know why I voted MCH" You may have already mentioned and I missed it, but I think we should have a reason. @Molten Eevee

 

[Zexy]

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if Froakie is actually mafia considering its final evolution.

What about me @Zexy?

Oops, forgot; I don't really like you but think that you may be town because town!you has looked scum before whereas scum!you was extremely cautious (and it worked well).

 

[Zexy]

I don't really like your posts*
nothing personal, lol that's what I get when I'm tired

 

[Snowy]

Im not sure why there was a claim here, it doesnt further town's progress at all, and helps Mafia, should one of them be Gen VI and/or Water type.

Not really.

Can you expand on the "I know why I voted MCH" You may have already mentioned and I missed it, but I think we should have a reason. @Molten Eevee

I did... Same post you read that from.

 

[Elementar]

Yeah. I'm not all that good at town. I guess I'm a bit rusty considering that I've been mafia for the past three games or so.

 

[Elementar]

I don't know why that posted twice. Oh well.

If M*13 is new, it surprises me that they'd announce a game mechanic that would help mafia unless they were. I didn't know much about how mafia played when I started.

 

[Sunsette]

I did... Same post you read that from.

No you didn't. You haven't given a real reason anywhere and outright stated that you were blind voting, as I said before. Later you tried to say that he was "likely to be scum", but why? There's nothing to back this up in your posts.

 

[Life]

Ummm... I said to not lynch M*13. I wanted to see what they would do later. And personally, I'd rather lynch an inactive than lynch a powerful player such as Mido or Zexy. And I believe that as said before, it isn't a really bad outcome if you accidentally get a mislynch. That's why it would be better if you mislynched an inactive, because they won't contribute as much.

Oh my bad. I guess misread one of your posts then.

However the fact that you brought it up is still an issue imo because it can be said that you brought it up to try and get another player to agree and create the wagon. That way the wagon would still be created and you could hop on later, seemingly avoiding suspicion. However, I admit that is a bit of a stretch.

All votes day one are based off of no evidence.

Early day one, yes. But not right now. All votes (aside the joke on on Hellcrow) have reasons behind them that directly come from the the actions of other players (aka evidence).

If I start caring, I'm just going to end up getting stressed and having to sub out *shrug* call it anti-town all you want, but it helps keep me sane.

Understandable. I feel like I know this about you but it's been so long since I've played a game with you, so I apologize if this is super redundant. ;w;

Nameclaiming is beneficial to no one. Not town. Not mafia. There are 18 starters, 18 players. The mafia players could be any one of those 18 starters.

Is my claim mafia? Is my claim town? You have no way to know based on name alone.

(I couldn't see if anyone explained it properly or not so I'll state it again here)
Name claiming in this game isn't a tell for whether you're town or scum, but as it gives away which type you are, it would aid the mafia because if they knew everyone's types then they could just target the players that would help get them abilities. And it's precisely because the mafia could be any of the 18 starters that we need to be careful revealing what our type is. If you're town and Chespin and Fennekin are on the mafia, they'd probably be killing you to night, which would not only be bad for you but the town. That's why name-claiming is beneficial to the mafia more than it is a neutral-aiding action.

Meh, I feel like I've achieved almost nothing in the scumread department. MCH, M-13 and even Molten Eevee seem town. Life too but I've seen him being REALLY good scum in LotR (long ago I know but it is the only scum game of his I know). Pikochu and Calvin I'm unsure of. Let's not even get started on the big guys HD and Mido...

Yeah, LotR was a long time ago and my first scum game. Most of my actions from that game probably don't match my other good mafia games such as Red Dwarf Mafia or Sports Anime Mafia (though SAM was such a weird game that it wouldn't be as helpful to look through as RDM). Just thought I would share so that you can look through them if you'd like. I'll also share one tidbit I find that is good to distinguish my faction: when I'm town, I'm honest with my feelings rather than being more calculative because I recognize it will be more beneficial for the town in the long run. I realize that you can't trust this because obviously if I am mafia I could be easily lying, but I think my previous games all point fairly well to this fact.

If M*13 is new, it surprises me that they'd announce a game mechanic that would help mafia unless they were. I didn't know much about how mafia played when I started.

I'm not sure I see the correlation you're trying to create. Aside from Paragon and this game being two different types of games, M*13 mentioning a mechanic was a) outlined in the OP and b) been talked about in the thread to a good extent, doesn't seem that unusual to me.

 

[Midorikawa]

I sit slaving away in heat and humidity painting, and all of you are just posting. Feel ashamed!

In seriousness: It's wall post time~click click click. Wall post! When we wall post it's much longer.

I think that lynching M*13 wouldn't be good. Or Hellcrow. (Those are going by the vote count). Mido is very useful player if they're on town, but very dangerous if their mafia. I'd keep them around. Zexy's always good to keep around, but is like Mido.

Actually, who do you think we should lynch at this point everyone? Probably one of the less active players.

What information would lynching someone who hasn't posted give us?

Zexy pretty much said what I was going to say about this being essentially a vanilla game before the ability mechanic kicks in, which makes our own analysis/reads and voting power all the more important this early on. The only thing that I'd like to add to that is that any type of information is useful in games like this. It doesn't matter if it's misinformation, weak, or even false information entirely. As long as something of substance exists, it's possible to draw relevant information and reads from it one way or another. In general, more information helps the game much much more than it can hurt it; which subsequently makes communication all the more important. Too many times in vanilla games I see people refrain from posting with the mindset that "there's not much to talk about", which in turn limits the activity potential of the thread as a whole and just hurts town in general. Any type of discussion can be used to form/confirm/cross-reference a read, get/test reactions from other, etc. Another personal gripe of mine is when people say "x is useless to talk about, instead we should be focusing on y." To that I always ask we can't talk about both things. I understand that sometimes people are worried that these types of "useless" discussions can be a way for mafia to distract the thread, and indeed they can be, but if you let them (or anyone for that matter) control the flow of discussion rather than let it happen naturally you are just hurting yourself anyway. That's why you shouldn't begin the game by narrowing your options; rather it's the exact opposite that gets the game going at a good pace. Mechanics discussion and joke votes are typical of Day 1 on Bulba, and while both have their drawbacks, sometimes they can be fueled by personal motives that aren't even apparent until later on in the game.

As for my thoughts on the thread so far, MCH is being his usual derptown self, and I hate to derpclear him again but it's been such a consistent way to confirm MCH that I can't help but turn to it again here. Not sure which way to lean with M13's erratic play, and I don't like how he's trying to play the n00b card a bit, but then again Elementar tried that in Paragon and I was wrong about him there. Mido, HD, and Zexy are extremely difficult to read this early as always, but Life is looking good. Hellcrow showing up randomly as always and Piko is contributing a lot more than I remember him to. Looking forward to hearing what the rest of the game thinks when they show up.

1) The more we post the more likely mafia is to slip up somewhere. It's harder to hide when the thread is active.
2) Do you think that the change in behavior of Piko is suspicious?

Tbh i don't think MMM is playing the noob card, rather I think he's just not sure what to do. It'd be different if he was using that as an excuse but he hasn't, which is the difference here imo.


I'm fairly confident he meant plays as in general actions, not as in night actions. Even if he did he most likely was referring to past games like is common for him, but he never mentioned having a role in this game and he's already confirmed he realizes the mechanics now. At this point it's starting to feel like you're really trying to get rMCH to crack by questioning everything he says, and thus make your vote on him seem more understandable from a spectator/townie standpoint.

Just my observation though. I do agree that I'd like to hear his response to the question you posed earlier though.

1) I agree on Mr. Delicious
2) I disagree on the part about Human. MCH has given us nothing to defend himself outside of past games which isn't a defense, it's just facts that are useless to us.

I'm thinking that one of the following options would probably be best to lynch, considering they've been inactive and some of us wouldn't have played with them before (I know I haven't, but I don't know about anyone else). What are your thoughts guys? As said before, it's best to get a lynch on day one to sort of get an idea.

@Andrew1990
@Molten Eevee
@Space
@RainbowSkittles
@White Crow

What will lynching white crow or Andrew do for us other than giving the mafia a free kill if they're town?

While a lynch on D1 seems like a good idea at first it often is a bad idea cause more often than not a town player is outed

No lynch is even worse unless there is lots of discussion which we are sorely lacking in currently.

Logically, by keeping your name unmemorable to the other players, you could avoid a lynch, right? But is that a strategy or just the fact that they might show up a day or so late? It's unfair to lynch someone who doesn't even know the game started and didn't check his/her PMs yet.

It's unfair to lynch someone who is away from the thread with a reason that was stated. Lynching someone who isn't doing their job of checking in isn't wrong because that is of their fault.

You're underestimating the risks of mislynches though. In the mechanics, roles are not only dependent of what character we are but also who are left in the game. Lynching the wrong player could lead scum one step closer to a power role.

Lack of information is even worse. The most powerful thing in a game is a vote.

@Pikochu That's always a risk, but given that the flips are our only way of getting information at this point, I think it's dumb to no lynch.

Of course a lynch is useless if we gain no information from it.

I for one am waiting a bit, given that we've still got over 24 hours before phase change (I think. What timezone is the host in?). The Zexy-MCH back and forth is a bit odd, and I agree that there's not much there that I'd say clears MCH really, but he's still also not raising too many red flags that shout "SCUM!" to me at this point. Given no better leads, I'm all for lynching someone who hasn't posted by the end of the phase. There's usually at least one or two in every game, and with this setup we gain almost nothing from no-lynching and aren't in risk of losing a power role if we do mislynch.

1) We are
2) Lynching someone who has posted gives us no information.

Use the square bracket, not the lesser than, greater than signs

[s]like this[/s]

I forgot who did that, but we should lynch them because those signs are for QTS. Thus they must be mafia!!!

I think the chance of hitting an innocent during a blind lynch is too high BUT...

The last time I blind voted ROMCH, he did turn out to be scum so...

Vote: Returnofmastercrazyhand

However, I will restate that I am not a fan of day 1 lynches...

That last line sounds like you trying to avoid taking responsibility for your vote if itleads to a mislynch.

@HumanDawn The only one I have suispicions on is M13 but that could easily be new player first game behavoir.
Imo a good lynch for info would be hellcrow, he hasn't posted since d1 began and has yet to take off his joke vote

Why is it bad that he hasn't a removed a single vote that isn't on you? Why is it bad that he hasn't posted in a while? This is my first time posting all day so does that make me suspicious?

I mentioned the wrong person Facepalm
Anyways, that last part about the having no bearing is false nowadays, you see meta is used a lot more here than it was a year and a half ago. And the meta proves joke votes are unnessecary after 4 to 5 games of major mislynches caused by jokes votes either directly or indirectly.
My playstyle in most games is to get paranoid regardless if I have only 1 vote on me.

I really see only Zexy relying on it so I disagree.

Vote: Elementar

Keeps trying to get us to go for an easy lynch. First they recommend maybe MMM because they could be playing the newbie card and we'll never know, and next they want to go for inactives despite the day not even being halfway over. Feels like they're really eager to lynch someone without wanting to argue anyone.

FoS: RainbowSkittles, Pikochu

RS because they appear nearly immediately after they're mentioned as a suggest lynch target. It seems really weird but not necessarily out of style for them
Pikoachu because I feel that they keep trying to appear townie while trying to figure out the mechanics instead of giving their input about any of the players, which would be much more helpful.


also there's so much meta-reasoning go on it's crazy tbh


Personally I would rather keep all options on the table since I think it allows me to see more possible scenarios. That said I have pushed some players off to certain sides as I think some are more townie than others right now. But I know this is simply how you play so I would rather not end up going into a philosophy argument with you atm. d:

I don't see how RS showing up is scummy. While it is one's job to check the forums and whatnot, I also know the notification system is jacked up majorly and half the time doesn't let someone know of something.

I just said I usually derptown
I didn't say I did it this time, and for another time where I skimmed way too much was chess mafia, where I didn't even know it was open setup, and I died for that and many more reasons that could have been averted if I read the rules throughly
Seriously, why am I always lynched day 1? I hate dying as town and on the first day, almost every gosh darn game.

1) Saying usually derptown is heavy implication that you "derptowned" this time.
2) Then give us reason not because all you've done is bring up past games and now you're just doing appeal to emotion.

This is why I should refrain from joke voting -_- as I said before I hate joke voting and it helped snowball me into dying.

It has nothing to do with your joke vote. It has everything to do with your posts and complete lack of defense to make us not want to lynch you.

@HumanDawn tbh it's going to be really hard to explain it to you (or anyone) if you aren't familiar with MCH's "meta" (the quotation marks are because I don't think unintentionally consistent anti-town behavior should be considered a meta, but it's a reality that impossible to ignore). Yes I know, ideally one shouldn't rely on meta to read a player and a new game should start fresh (insert rest of scumhunting 101 lecture here) but its unrealistic. Zexy can understand what I'm saying because we've experienced the same thing with leetic, where a townie played so intensely anti-town that you were sure they couldnt actually be mafia, and it's kinda shaken up our (at least my) confidence with these kinds of situations. I'd also like to clarify that I'm not arguing against voting MCH, merely offering another perspective to consider. I think that's something town should decide together.

And exactly who should we lynch instead? I see defense of MCH like crazy, but no one is giving any better alternatives.

This is true... MCH's mafia meta is that he usually gets angry and defensive, and highly frustrated. It's more like he's just giving up here.

Looks more like appeal to emotion to me.

About this whole meta thing... I dunno, but couldn't player styles change depending on game setups/mechanics? For example since no one has any powers yet that could maybe affect how they go about doing things.



So why didn't you vote him?



Anyone you think is particularly suspicious yet then?

As for me I'm not sure who to vote yet. Waiting on mch to maybe try and defend himself and also look back some more.

Without a doubt roles change playstyle to a point. Though in general players will have something that makes them them. Like for me its my aggressivness. But as mafia I will notice things and not point them out or something so that I'm leaving the town with less. As town I will lay it all down for the sake of scumhutning.

Seriously.


All votes day one are based off of no evidence.



If I start caring, I'm just going to end up getting stressed and having to sub out *shrug* call it anti-town all you want, but it helps keep me sane.

Nameclaiming is beneficial to no one. Not town. Not mafia. There are 18 starters, 18 players. The mafia players could be any one of those 18 starters.

Is my claim mafia? Is my claim town? You have no way to know based on name alone.

Anyway, time for joking is over.

Unvote: Returnofmastercrazyhand


I know why I voted MCH - and it's not why people think - why did these two vote for him? I only have time to skim the thread, so I may have missed the post mentioning it.

For flipping out over two joke votes on Mr. Delicious and the votes remain due to no attempts at a defense.

But can't the mafia kill off someone of the same type as themself in order to evolve sooner? That's clearly beneficial to the mafia more than to the town.

They have to know the type of the person they kill and whatnot anyways. Chances are that mafia will kill someone useful to them every night.

Meh, I feel like I've achieved almost nothing in the scumread department. MCH, M-13 and even Molten Eevee seem town. Life too but I've seen him being REALLY good scum in LotR (long ago I know but it is the only scum game of his I know). Pikochu and Calvin I'm unsure of. Let's not even get started on the big guys HD and Mido...

Quite tired, will show up tomorrow and probably vote then because I'll be busy later in the day and I don't want to accidentally miss the voting deadline.

Zexy how heartless of you to ignore me. I thought we had something special!

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if Froakie is actually mafia considering its final evolution.

What about me @Zexy?

Why do you feel the need to ask him to comment on you? Are you hoping for him to "clear" you?

Yeah. I'm not all that good at town. I guess I'm a bit rusty considering that I've been mafia for the past three games or so.

Please. Excluding ongoing games, I've had one game as town since coming back. One game. And I died early in it.

And my vote sticks because I want a real response from the one I'm voting not every person but MCH.

Also let's not lynch someone who has not posted. It does nothing but give mafia help.

 

[Midorikawa]

This disappeared from my wall post for some reason.

He pretty much said all that stuff and then admitted he only skimmed through the OP; he probably didn't know that the others had simple role PMs at that point, which could only happen if he's town... unless he's faking this all, but I've seen town MCH missing OP details much more than scum MCH trying to fake derpclear. I believe this is just another case of that.

How could that happen only if he's town? I see that happening because he openly admitted to being lazy (no offense MCH) and not reading it properly.

I believe MCH did not understand that everyone has no roles and just pointed out that he doesn't because it looked strange to him.

And mafia can do that too.

Scum!MCH would know that his buddies don't have any roles at least.

Not if he didn't talk to them yet. We don't know who mafia is, wha'ts happening in the QT, etc. They could not have informed him, and hosts don't always post the roles in the QTS. So there is nothing that excuses it.

My argument on why MCH town boils down to: the way he derped seems genuine.

So if I do a genuine derp in a game I'm automatically town. Come now Zexy you should see the flaw in that. Mafia can derp too. Especially someone who admits that their derp is due to lack of reading.

Also

@HumanDawn

 

[Sunsette]

1) We are
2) Lynching someone who has posted gives us no information.

Not sure what you mean by this. Did you mean lynching someone who *hasn't* posted gives us no info? Though anyway, the post this was responding to was made before I'd formed other suspicions, so I now have someone I'd pick over an inactive.

 

[Midorikawa]

Not sure what you mean by this. Did you mean lynching someone who *hasn't* posted gives us no info? Though anyway, the post this was responding to was made before I'd formed other suspicions, so I now have someone I'd pick over an inactive.

Yeah typo on my part. I meant someone who hasn't posted gives us no information.

 

[Elementar]

What information would lynching someone who hasn't posted give us?

Good point. I'll reconsider changing my opinion actually now that I think about it.

Why do you feel the need to ask him to comment on you? Are you hoping for him to "clear" you?

It was the fact that i was one of the only active players that he didn't mention. I thought something might have been up.

But anyway, if you (I'm talking to everyone) don't want to vote for an inactive, who would you vote for at this stage?

 

[Sunsette]

I haven't seen anything to change my mind, so I'm sticking with my vote on Mighty Eevee unless something more convincing comes along.

 

[Life]

@Midorikawa

1) I have to go back and read rMCH's posts I guess. Honestly I just skim a lot of them because they're so short so and often I'm sure I missed something.

2) Yeah that's true, mentions can be a little wack. But I don't think it was a coincidence honestly. It was just weird to me imo and I felt a FoS was necessary to try and get RS to post more. (And seeing as how he posted after it was suggested to possibly lynch him, I figured he would be more responsive with some pressure. However, I did not want to blatantly state that because he could have just ignored it knowing my reasoning). But when you and HD try to pick at everything you disagree with it really makes it hard to try and achieve anything without the other party knowing. :\ I know I could have PMed you that but tbh I'm too tired and don't think it's worth it atm because like you and HD said there are other issues in the matter that seem likely.

 

[ReturnofMCH]

this is just absurd, if I'm following the game right, I'm STILL being targetted just because I "overreacted" (Which I didn't) with a joke vote, and because I MIGHT be scum.
I have only been scum like what, twice? I have been town most of the time, and get mislynched over 4/5ths of the time because I MAKE MISTAKES D1.
honestly it gets tiring to get mislynched d1 over and over and over again for the EXACT same reasons, and that is my derpiness.
this is the reason I FORCED MY OWN MODKILL IN CHAOS MAFIA. because it's tiring.
and before you say "stop playing mafia games" keep in mind I HAVE TRIED THAT, but keep getting pulled back in due to some fun LOOKING games that turn out to be anything but fun in the end due to a mislynch.

 

[ReturnofMCH]

@EeveelutionLover please do us a favor and hammer me in so I can prove these people I really shouldn't be targeted day 1, AGAIN, until they forget it AGAIN.

 

[EeveelutionLover]

@returnofmastercrazyhand I'm giving you a warning. I find it pretty disrespectful and unsportsmanlike that you try to get the host to pinch in, let alone use me to defend you. If your that upset then I can sub you out just say the word.