Mafia Fruit Bowl Mafia 2: Endgame: Pasta La Vista, Baby! 22/6/17

[Max1996]

I do want to hear more on @Max1996's reasons on why Elieson is scum. Specifically, the passages that makes Elie look scum to him. Read on Max: Null

It is mainly that Elieson insists on forming a wagon on MegaPod, only for MegaPod's jokevote.

 

[Pika_pika42]

Elieson said: ↑
I'm actually up for a wagon here. You don't seem to be taking my vote + another seriously, so maybe a few more can help draw out some facts.

Exactly that's why I get a Town read for Elieson as I believe no scum would be so straightforward to admit to create a wagon.
I don't think scum would like so much attention.
Whatever little I have seen of Elieson, he always comes across as aggressive in his playstyle, so I don't think he's acting different in this game.
Though I don't like the way Zexy added his vote in an understated manner.

I'll Vote: Zexy for now.

 

[Pika_pika42]

Oops everything came inside that quote.

Am I allowed to edit that post?

 

[Max1996]

Oops everything came inside that quote.

Am I allowed to edit that post?

To fix formatting and any spelling errors? Yes.

For any other reason? No.

Do I have that right, @Maniacal Engineer?

 

[Elieson]

If he really wanted to start a wagon, would he straightforward admit it? I don't think so.

What better way to apply pressure and build reads than being incredibly obvious about it. It's so obvious, it's meant to get people thinking about its legitimacy and read more deeply into the purpose.

Granted, almost nobody was here to comment on it, but the point was there

...I'm honestly just a bit surprised that that one word is all I had to say to explain myself. I guess "break the silence" wasn't quite the right phrasing?

The biggest thing I was able to ascertain is that you said "break the silence" for a reason. There are a thousand other ways to say it, but this phrase gives zero accountability to you and simultaneously makes it look like you're trying to get things done, but after 4 jokeposts, your 5th didn't try anything new and after not yet yielding anything, well, there's probably a reason why you tried five times to just break the silence. There's a huge difference between breaking silence and encouraging activity, and scumhunting by semantics analysis is a super effective method of the sort.

It is mainly that Elieson insists on forming a wagon on MegaPod, only for MegaPod's jokevote.

I'll ask you to think why I did what I did, and said what I said. Give everyone some motivation to consider. Why would I post the things I have, and in such loud and obvious ways? There must be some motivation, right? Think of the town, and the scum, motivation for why I've been so obnoxious. Don't look at only what I said, look at why I said it.

That's primarily the source of what I was able to get started on MegaPod with. I didn't look at what he said, I looked at what he didn't say, and dug around for potential reasons for why his posts would contain what they contained. Heck, do the same with MegaPod. Even if you agree with him, do it anyway. Do it with everyone. Consider why some people, like Zexy, seem to be giving me some support, while people like you are giving MegaPod support.

There's more to scumhunting than just looking at the words on your screen. People have reasons for their actions, and once a post exists, then there can be intent interpretation, and from there, you can develop effective reads and more effectively apply pressure to generate more reads.

If you think I'm scum for it, then that's cool. My job isn't to convince you or anyone that I'm not scum. My job is to use all the time I have to get things happening and encourage reads so that if I die, my time in the game can still be used in some way.

Am I allowed to edit that post?

Just ask a MOD to do it for you

 

[Pika_pika42]

Just ask a MOD to do it for you

Yes could a MOD please help me in editing that post. Thank you.

 

[Maniacal Engineer]

Oops everything came inside that quote.

Am I allowed to edit that post?

Exactly as Max said. Post editing is permissible in order to correct spelling, grammar, or formatting.
I've fixed your above post, but in the future, you may do so yourself.

 

[Pika_pika42]

Exactly as Max said. Post editing is permissible in order to correct spelling, grammar, or formatting.
I've fixed your above post, but in the future, you may do so yourself.

Thank you ME. I'll remember it the next time.

 

[Doctor Floptopus]

So, here's my view:
Elieson placed a pressure vote on Megapod because he felt MP was CW/OC. Zexy added actual pressure. Megapod overreacted, and is now convinced Elie is scum, which isn't good reasoning to Elie so his vote stays.
Right now I think it's probably a town/town interaction. Zexy's vote doesn't seem really worth calling out: one vote isn't really pressure, two is kinda pressure. My vote was a joke, so I'm not counting it here because it was always going to be temporary.
Elieson's aggressiveness is not alignment indicative. Megapod's reaction is worth noting, but not enough to warrant a vote at the moment.
Elie and megapod are currently tied for votes right now. I don't want a no lynch.

 

[Zexy]

The lack of other people posting about this conversation is making me think this is a town/town interaction between Elieson and MegaPod. I would expect scum mates to rise to the defense by now. What do you think about that?

Not necessarily. For one if you are the scumbuddy of either of them you could just post this to make them look better. Also the scumbuddies might be inactive or not want to stand out. I think they might be town/town indeed but not because of scumbuddy reasons.

It's also possible he's scum with Zexy.

So you think I'm scum with Elie just because we agree a lot? It's because we use similar logic, which has been a thing in lots of games.

Unvote: Megapod12
Don't fancy a lynch due to a joke vote.

Don't you have any other thoughts on the MegaPod case though?

Wow, Elieson. You think I was trying to encourage people to not scumhunt? This whole thing about reading too much into silliness is getting ridiculous. I was trying to encourage activity. You know, that thing where people actually post? And also, I don't know if this little point flew over your head a few pages back: Mafia games are for enjoyment. I don't care if I play differently from you and try to have some fun with it, that's no reason to get all pissy on me. I've provided an adequate defense for once, get over it.

Just to differentiate my stance on why I'm voting for you here. I don't think you were trying to encourage anybody to do something scummy or overthinking the joke posts themselves. What I didn't like is how all the posts were meaningless, and your meaningful posts afterwards were only a self-preservation vote on me and then an OMGUS tunneling. And despite the pressure I'm putting on you with this extra vote I don't see you deviating from the OMGUS tunneling at all. You post a lot but provide little.

You must understand, that this is the first time I feel like I've seen any kind of emotional investment in a response from you, given the entirety of your collective responses.

And you think that's towny or scummy for him?

While I agree that MP12 is acting more jumpy and panicky than he probably should, it seems more like beginner panic.

I'm starting to agree tbh because in RM2, his first game ever, where he was scum, he was much more careful than here.

The discussion has mainly gone almost nowhere in my opinion. It's just a bunch of "Accuse A, defense B because A, counterargument B is a bad defense because of A because B because A," etc.

It still is the main thing we're discussing this phase, although I agree we might be looking at two townies after all.

What do you suggest that MP12 should have done instead then?

Less joking, some attempts to read people legitimately.

Personally, I find Zexy's involvement between Elieson and MP12 more concerning than the two themselves mainly because Zexy is trying to act like a third party between the two but subtly trying to push for a lynch on MP12 using Elieson to lead the wagon. See: Post #108, Post #112 and Post #110. Current read on Zexy: Leaning slight scum

At the time I voted MP12 because Elie got a point and I saw no better lead

It is mainly that Elieson insists on forming a wagon on MegaPod, only for MegaPod's jokevote.

It's not the only thing he's voting him for, have you actually read all of their posts?

Exactly that's why I get a Town read for Elieson as I believe no scum would be so straightforward to admit to create a wagon.
I don't think scum would like so much attention.
Whatever little I have seen of Elieson, he always comes across as aggressive in his playstyle, so I don't think he's acting different in this game.
Though I don't like the way Zexy added his vote in an understated manner.

I'll Vote: Zexy for now.

In what way was it understated? I explained why I did it, I didn't push it as much as Elie did because I didn't feel that sure of it.

UNVOTE:MegaPod12

because I'm starting to believe we might have town/town. however I'd rather risk lynching one of them than no lynching. bad spot we're in.

 

[Elieson]

And you think that's towny or scummy for him?

I don't think it's townie enough to warrant me unvoting the slot and handwaving the entirety of everything that happened until now, but it's requiring significantly more effort to maintain my vote right now.

Question for others; thoughts on Max1996 and his not-reading-what's-happening-thoroughly-yet-voting-for-Elieson-for-being-scummy-for-things-Elieson-isn't-actually-doing stance? I think I'm too biased against a vote on me to properly interpret it as anything. I don't like it but I'm feeling way to meta about it to justify a vote. Don't ask me to metacase Max right now, it's not something I'm comfortable putting out when there's so much else to try to look at first.


Elieson's Unofficial V-V-V-Votals:

Elieson: (2) MegaPod12, Max1996
Zexy: (1) Pika_pika42
MegaPod12: (1) Elieson
Midorikawa: (1) Midorikawa

Just under 5 hours remain in the phase and if it's to just prove a point and get information on the table for you all to find useful, I'll self-vote just to make sure we don't skip a phase's worth of info.

Where did @swarla and @Feenie vanish too, and what about @Soulmaster and @Rainbow Cloud and @Midorikawa as well? That's over 1/3 of the game being largely absent.

 

[Zexy]

1. Max1996 - kinda don't like how he was quick to make a case on Elie without doing much else either. slight scum.
2. Pika_pika42 - the few posts he made looked ok. slight town.
4. MegaPod12 - even though he looks scummy at first glance, gut and meta says town.
5. @Rainbow Cloud - please post more
6. Pikochu - the few posts he made looked ok. slight town (yeah I have the same read for both Pikas)
7. @Elementar - please post more. I feel like you've been strangely inactive lately
8. Midorikawa - MISLYNCH HER BECAUSE OF META... honestly though, I'm always a bit paranoid of Mido and trying to figure out that meta of hers but cannot. At this point I don't really want to focus on her though, we need to cut her some slack.
9. @Soulmaster - kinda forgot you're playing in this game please post more
10. @Feenie - I'd like to see more posting from you as well
11. @Doctor Floptopus - same...
12. @swarla - SAME...
13. @jdthebud - his one post that stood out about the scumbuddies just strikes me off as weird. gut read slight scum.
14. Elieson - his logic is good but he's tunneling on MegaPod a little bit too much, which is the only reason I'm even paranoid here

 

[Elieson]

As far as voters go:

• I more or less disagree with Pikapika's vote on Zexy, but I don't disagree with it enough to suggest that he move it. He's got a point so it's worth discussion; at the very least, it warrants a reply to see significance of stance.
• Megapod, kinda OMGUS from my pov, but also kind of a frustration vote, which I expected.
• Max, IMO poorly voted for me. 0 acknowledgement and little in the way of responses or analysis attempts
• Mido selfvoted/jokevoted for not having a scents of humor. Le sighhhh
• Elieson is a raving lunatic who's probably on to something in some round-a-bout way

@Zexy I'm not done yet. That's all I can really say. I can actually get a bit more out of him later though; a point has been reached and I think I can stand down while thoughts progress.

##Unvote (MegaPod12)
##Vote jdthebud

While I don't disagree with your sentiments on the "scum might've showed up to get involved" stance, I'm actually bothered by:

The lack of other people posting about this conversation is making me think this is a town/town interaction between Elieson and MegaPod. I would expect scum mates to rise to the defense by now. What do you think about that?

Rather than interpreting the discussion between the two of us, jd's finding both Megapod and I to be town because...other people aren't getting involved? That's not how you townread people...it feels like a SUPER forced attempt at townreading. I see literally no reason to completely bypass commenting on the discussion itself and instead jump right to "well, nobody's chiming in so they're probably both town".

 

[Elieson]

@Elementar is in this game, I completely forgot

 

[Elieson]

Let's just hurry up and lynch Mido so she can focus on the Champions game and represent bulba better

@Maniacal Engineer can we get some puns in here?

@Doctor Floptopus comments on Zexy/Max and maybe the Pik[a/o]kids? They're arguably the next most vocal people after Megapod and I, and deserve attention from people other than myself and zexy.

 

[Zexy]

Y'know what?

VOTE: jdthebud

Much better option than anything else we have atm.

However I'll note that if he flips town you'll look a bit bad for this, and while I'm afraid he may not defend a lot because of inactivity... this is how we got him in Periodic Table too, right?

 

[Zexy]

... but your logic in the above posts just feels SO right for you to be scum.

I more or less disagree with Pikapika's vote on Zexy, but I don't disagree with it enough to suggest that he move it. He's got a point so it's worth discussion; at the very least, it warrants a reply to see significance of stance.

You mean it warrants a reply from me? I did that.

 

[Elieson]

However I'll note that if he flips town you'll look a bit bad for this, and while I'm afraid he may not defend a lot because of inactivity... this is how we got him in Periodic Table too, right?

If he flips town, I'd be a bit bummed, but I'm not gonna twiddle my thumbs for 5 hours and either throw my vote on someone not around or someone I'm not comfortably scumreading. There's still time to get reads and shuffle votes if need be.

And Yep. It was his unfinished arguments that did him in last time, iirc

... but your logic in the above posts just feels SO right for you to be scum.

If I am scum, I'd hope my buddies have a plan to deal with the buttclenching amounts of inactivity in this game so far. No lie, being scum in this game is probably the better position to be in IMO.

I won't mention the silly fallacy of If(Logic) Then(Scum) though

... but your logic in the above posts just feels SO right for you to be scum.

You mean it warrants a reply from me? I did that.

No it warrants a further reply from Pika^2. You're cool

 

[Maniacal Engineer]

@Maniacal Engineer can we get some puns in here?

I've been trying to refrain from interfering in this game, despite the tree-mendous effort it requires, since it can be distracting towards some players.
On the other hand, if y'all find puns a-peeling, I can certainly cook up a few to share with the class.

 

[MegaPod]

Unvote: Elieson

I can't tell his alignment at this point, even if I couldn't totally get his fixation on me. I have some other reads.

Max: good intent, but could be giving more effort, I guess. Tbd

Piko: he's made good points. I'm guessing Town.

Pika: I'm not fond of how his first content post basically just echoes jdthebud's. His other makes sense, I suppose. Tbd

jdthebud: Elieson raises a good point. Bud's only made that one post, too. I'm going with Elie and Zexy on this one.

Vote: jdthebud