Music Background music of the show

[ShadowDeeps]

As stated, I'd give it to 4Kids' BGM. It has catchier, faster, better paced, and more dramatic beats and more depth in tones. It also blends well with the visual tones and with previous and subsequent tracks (Japanese or 4Kids). 4Kids' tracks feature vibrance but without feeling forceful (at least, as much as the PUSA tracks do for me). But beyond that the PUSA tracks feel more like facetious background music that doesn't serve much beyond being there for the sake of being a background for the visuals. 4Kids' BGM (and the original format's Japanese BGM) had a more subtle take that added more.

I also feel the Japanese and 4Kids BGM captured everyone (Pokémon or human) in character better, adding an invigorating audible sense, which is quite necessary. Most of the time I just don't find PUSA's BGM to be very rousing, but it isn't that awful either IMO. It's just used and forced in a way that rather breaks the preset limit to its emotional range of music and sort of extends the shell life beyond its level of poignancy by repeated usage. It's just... BGM, which is why I feel there's a good divide between PUSA's and 4Kids' BGM in quality.

 

[poke07]

I agree. By the way, you are a very good writer!

 

[Yash]

The problem I have with the PUSA music is that there are no clear melodies to follow, and the battle music is anti-climatic. Instead of using full pieces (like 4Kids), they seem to have dozens of 10-second loops of music that can be cut, pasted, and moved around to form ongoing music.

...

When was the last time you watched a 4Kids episode?

Listen, for example, to the piece that plays in the infamous "Mud! Kip!" video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YP5i5-G2f3c

That entire piece is like 3 seconds long.

 

[Cybersai]

One thing I would love is if they released DVD's with the english voices but the Japanese music.

You know how FUNI lets you listen to the english cast of DBZ but with the Japanese music if you switch?

Pokemon DVD's like that would be perfect. I already own all the Pokemon DVD's released by 4kids/PUSA, but I'd buy them all again just to have the Japanese soundtrack with the english voices.

 

[ShadowDeeps]

Thanks for the accolades, poke07.

One thing I would love is if they released DVD's with the english voices but the Japanese music.

You know how FUNI lets you listen to the english cast of DBZ but with the Japanese music if you switch?

Pokemon DVD's like that would be perfect. I already own all the Pokemon DVD's released by 4kids/PUSA, but I'd buy them all again just to have the Japanese soundtrack with the english voices

I've found that option in the DBZ rereleases to have an undesired effect. It's just the opinion I hold but something about the Japanese music of the 1980's (which I find to be quite classy and with good application) overlaps precariously with the dub VAs of FUNimation. There's a good divide between the generations of dub music and original Japanese BGM (as Faulconer's music tends to be very synthetic, which I'm a fan of) That's not to say it can't work - OCEAN's dub of the first three movies had dub VAs and kept the original format's BGM (which I found to be an adroit and solidified mix).

But the 4Kids Pokémon dub is an interesting case, because 4Kids' BGM seems to blend so seamlessly well with the original Japanese BGM in my ears that sometimes they're not that easy to distinguish. So I definitively think keeping the original BGM can work, especially as an option for future DVDs (though, I do find the Japanese version, from what I've heard, to be a tad more intense in tone due to the preservation of silence for backgrounds and the brevity of emotion that comes with that). As for PUSA's BGM.... it may not be necessarily disparaging, but I just think it depends upon how it's used.

 

[Cybersai]

Well yeah, it would just be an option.

I imagine we'd get DVDs with the dub we already see on TV, and then an option to listen to the english voices but with the Japanese soundtrack, and if we're really lucky the Japanese version entirely with english subtitles.

I've love to see all 11 seasons released like this on DVD, including all the movies. I'd buy them all.

I know its a pipedream but nobody knows what the future holds.

 

[poke07]

...

When was the last time you watched a 4Kids episode?

Listen, for example, to the piece that plays in the infamous "Mud! Kip!" video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YP5i5-G2f3c

That entire piece is like 3 seconds long.

Not every, single BGM is a full length piece. However, in general, the pieces have a beginning middle and end. "Gathering The Gang of Four" has a lot of what I am talking about.

 

[Jorah]

Well, here's what I think.

I didn't mind 4Kids music when it was just here and there, like in the 1st season. One of my favourite tracks is the bike scene in the 1st episode. But when it's by itself for most part of the episode, I just find it dull. It's also kind of annoying how they had such short tracks. I'm not sure the 4Kids BGM was supposed to ever take up whole episodes (except 2 tracks). I didn't like the Pokemon 2000 score because it constantly changes all the time, it's like they've put a mish-mash of sounds into one track. However, I do like their movie 1 soundtrack, although it doesn't have the darkness and foreboding that the Japanese soundtrack has, I think.

PUSA's BGM has improved since the Wallace episode, I've noticed. Before the music was quite emotionless, never really fitted a scene and, actually, not very nice to listen to. Most of them were quite awful. Although, I did like some of those awful tracks, they had a nice tune but the way they were played made them sound horrible. Although I agree some 4Kids tracks had more emotion in them, I just find them dull, so I welcome the change to just PUSA BGM now.

I'd buy DVDs with all the original BGM

 

[ShadowDeeps]

Well, here's what I think.

I didn't mind 4Kids music when it was just here and there, like in the 1st season. One of my favourite tracks is the bike scene in the 1st episode. But when it's by itself for most part of the episode, I just find it dull. It's also kind of annoying how they had such short tracks. I'm not sure the 4Kids BGM was supposed to ever take up whole episodes (except 2 tracks).

Same here. Faulconer's DBZ tracks tend to have that same issue - tracks that are inserted and are so terse that they don't surmount to anything, nor are they a platform for anything. Little more than brief annoyance bears fruit to the ears when little inserts like that are made just to tell the viewer the tone has changed (almost in a supercilious way). But I do like a number of 4Kids' tracks. I just think it depends upon how they're threaded.

I didn't like the Pokemon 2000 score because it constantly changes all the time, it's like they've put a mish-mash of sounds into one track.

You didn't like the score itself or how well it blended into the movie itself and its application (to clarify)? I myself love Movie 2's dub soundtrack, but I think Movie 1 and 3's dub soundtrack is great as well.

However, I do like their movie 1 soundtrack, although it doesn't have the darkness and foreboding that the Japanese soundtrack has, I think.

I agree with this as well. The Japanese soundtrack tends to be used in auguring and temerarious builders, only giving one hints of what you don't see rather than glaring cuts and ongoing, overlapping music that isn't very dynamic and doesn't project emotional pithiness very well through the musical tones. I like how the Japanese BGM tends to be musically foreboding of what isn't seen in the immediate moment (or rather, threats outside immediate threat). It's also a reason why I can appreciate silence immensely - especially in the moment where Mewtwo is about to clone everyone's Pokémon. The silence helps one feel what they don't see and the brief tone the moment may have in the more silent moods that are climatic or/and suspenseful, which in a way works better than the ominous tones of the music (at least, for me).

 

[Jorah]

You didn't like the score itself or how well it blended into the movie itself and its application (to clarify)? I myself love Movie 2's dub soundtrack, but I think Movie 1 and 3's dub soundtrack is great as well.

I like it in the movie, but I'm listening to the soundtrack now and it jumps from dramatic music to calm and completly changes the tune, which is a shame because I like some of the tunes in there. They move onto another tune too quickly sometimes and I wish they went on for longer.

I agree with this as well. The Japanese soundtrack tends to be used in auguring and temerarious builders, only giving one hints of what you don't see rather than glaring cuts and ongoing, overlapping music that isn't very dynamic. It's also a reason why I can appreciate silence immensely - especially in the moment where Mewtwo is about to clone everyone's Pokémon. The silence helps one feel the brief tone the moment may have in the more silent moods that are climatic or/and suspenseful, which in a way works better then ominous tones of the music (at least, for me).

Haha, you really can write well.

I've just noticed here it says "High Touch! (Instrumental Version)" instead of "karaoke" which, does this means we're getting this music?

 

[Dogasu]

This is all stuff I've been saying for YEARS, but that was before it was cool to bash the dub. So I guess there's no harm in saying it again.


Whenever I see people talking about the PUSA dub and how much they miss the 4Kids dub music...I sort of facepalm. Because, in my opinion, the 4Kids music and the PUSA music are both shit and should stay the hell out of the dub.

There are several reasons I feel this way. For one thing, the music, as others have pointed out, is ridiculously ADD. While the Japanese version will score the show based on the emotion of an overall scene - a battle, a sad scene, an uplifting scene, whatever - the dub will score the show based on what's happening on-screen at that EXACT moment. If the gang's in the middle of a battle and someone whips out their Pokedex, the dub will, 95% of the time, interrupt whatever music they have playing and insert that "Pokedex theme." And then, when THAT'S over, they go into another battle theme. If a character facefaults or whatever, the dub has to play that muted trumpet "Bwaa Bwaaaaaa" thing. Basically, the dub tries too hard to break the show into these little five to ten second "moments" instead of looking at the overall picture.

I remember how Maddie Blaustein was whining about how badly the music editing is in the Japanese version and saying that the 4Kids dub is better right around the time "The Mastermind of Mirage Pokemon" aired. And THEN, like a week or two later, the aforementioned "The Saffron Con" debuted, an episode that, to me, is the epitome of how horrible the dub is at scoring the show. The whole thing made me go "...Really, Ms. Blaustein? You think THIS is better!? Seriously!?!?!"

I also hate how the dub feels the need to have music playing wall-to-wall for the entire episode. Which American cartoons (which 4Kids/PUSA are trying to make the show seem like) haven't done since the days of Animaniacs. They're making the show seem more dated than it should by sticking to such archaic music editing practices.

There's also the fact that you have two different composers (Miyazaki Shinji and the dub people) with two completely different composition styles that clash horribly into each other. I have absolutely no idea what the people who say that the 4Kids music flows so "perfectly" into the Japanese music are talking about. I think it's a horrible mishmash.

All this is why I like the dubs of the movies and the occasional specials. When the dub just leaves the music score alone, the dub is actually enjoyable.


But I guess it's all a matter of perspective. If all you've grown up on is the dub, then that's all you know. But I really wish the dub would let us judge for ourselves whether or not the Japanese music is any good instead of having some suits up in New York decide that for us.


And while I would love DVDs that have the original Japanese soundtrack...that's about as likely as us getting a competent, bilingual DVD release.

 

[poke07]

Faulconer released ALL of his BGM on CD's. Every little thing; from main themes, to 10-second tracks. They are ALL on CD's and can be bought on iTunes. Pokemon should do the same thing. I know some BGM tracks are released, but I want all of them.

Also, I know exactly what you mean about the 3-second muted trumpet fanfare. I am not a huge fan of that track either. One advantage to the PUSA score, is that these sorts of tracks do not exist. However, without these "perky" sounds, the dub now has more of a serious feel, and less of a light and jovial feel.

I also agree that recently PUSA BGM has become much better. The complacent music is very good. They need to work on their battle music a lot.

In terms of movies, I loved the score for the first movie. The 2nd was ok too. After that, none of them (that I saw) were that phenomenal.


Here is another rant of mine concerning BGM:

I am pretty sure both 4Kids and PUSA used only synthesizers. However, the synth that 4Kids used, to me, sounded a lot like a real orchestra (I play in an orchestra). However, the PUSA synthesizer sounds of lower quality. I wonder if this was a budget-related problem.

Also..

The audio mixing is POOR! After re-watching some 4Kids dubs, and some Japanese episodes, I remembered what "good audio mixing" sounded like. With PUSA audio mixing, the sound effects are WAY too loud in relation to the BGM. The voices are ok, but somehow the three don't blend well.

 

[Pokemaster Justin]

yeah what was up with that dumb trumpet thing 4Kids started to play 90 times per episode?

 

[Linkpre]

I've grown to really love the 4Kids and Japanese music tracks over the years.

I particularly liked what 4Kids did with the music in the Hoenn episodes. The music for the most part seemed to go along with the dialouge. One sound effect(that trumpet piece you guys have mentioned) I loved was the little piece played after a character made a joke or something funny happened. Or that little peaceful song that played when a Pokemon was resting/sleeping.

While I admit I might be bias, I'm not to much of a fan of PUSA's tracks. There are a couple pieces I like, such as the one played in "The Electrike Company", but for the most part they don't seem very memorable.

 

[TheArsenalRisen]

This is all stuff I've been saying for YEARS, but that was before it was cool to bash the dub. So I guess there's no harm in saying it again.


Whenever I see people talking about the PUSA dub and how much they miss the 4Kids dub music...I sort of facepalm. Because, in my opinion, the 4Kids music and the PUSA music are both shit and should stay the hell out of the dub.

There are several reasons I feel this way. For one thing, the music, as others have pointed out, is ridiculously ADD. While the Japanese version will score the show based on the emotion of an overall scene - a battle, a sad scene, an uplifting scene, whatever - the dub will score the show based on what's happening on-screen at that EXACT moment. If the gang's in the middle of a battle and someone whips out their Pokedex, the dub will, 95% of the time, interrupt whatever music they have playing and insert that "Pokedex theme." And then, when THAT'S over, they go into another battle theme. If a character facefaults or whatever, the dub has to play that muted trumpet "Bwaa Bwaaaaaa" thing. Basically, the dub tries too hard to break the show into these little five to ten second "moments" instead of looking at the overall picture.

I remember how Maddie Blaustein was whining about how badly the music editing is in the Japanese version and saying that the 4Kids dub is better right around the time "The Mastermind of Mirage Pokemon" aired. And THEN, like a week or two later, the aforementioned "The Saffron Con" debuted, an episode that, to me, is the epitome of how horrible the dub is at scoring the show. The whole thing made me go "...Really, Ms. Blaustein? You think THIS is better!? Seriously!?!?!"

I also hate how the dub feels the need to have music playing wall-to-wall for the entire episode. Which American cartoons (which 4Kids/PUSA are trying to make the show seem like) haven't done since the days of Animaniacs. They're making the show seem more dated than it should by sticking to such archaic music editing practices.

There's also the fact that you have two different composers (Miyazaki Shinji and the dub people) with two completely different composition styles that clash horribly into each other. I have absolutely no idea what the people who say that the 4Kids music flows so "perfectly" into the Japanese music are talking about. I think it's a horrible mishmash.

All this is why I like the dubs of the movies and the occasional specials. When the dub just leaves the music score alone, the dub is actually enjoyable.


But I guess it's all a matter of perspective. If all you've grown up on is the dub, then that's all you know. But I really wish the dub would let us judge for ourselves whether or not the Japanese music is any good instead of having some suits up in New York decide that for us.


And while I would love DVDs that have the original Japanese soundtrack...that's about as likely as us getting a competent, bilingual DVD release.

Funny, as I was just comparing the BGM scores between the Japanese version and the dub version, for the second movie...

Quite frankly, I'm gonna have to go along with Maddie and say that 4Kids did a better job. =\ Watching scenes of Revelation Lugia... I was pretty bored. I also went "" when the helicopter crashed and they were basically still playing the same music as before. It didn't seem fit. Didn't feel right at all. Especially when compared to the dub version. I also noticed that they seemed to try to make SFX speak more for what was happening in the scene, as opposed to the music. Music is very important. It sets the tone of the scene. 4Kids did a much better job of ensuring that, especially if it was a dramatic part.

As for the dub music having ADD... What's wrong with that? =P Like I just said, music sets the tone. I want to get a feel for what's happening in the scene RIGHT NOW. I want that moment to be INTIMATE, to really be there and IN MY FACE. If it means switching from a battle them to the Pokedex theme, then fine! Give it to me! Just make sure I get a feel for what's really going on right then!

Now I'm not going to say that all of the Japanese BMG is crap. I rather like a lot of the 8th movie scores. But that's mainly where I stand on that matter. I generally prefer the 4Kids material, over anything else.


EDIT: Oh yeah. And if you hate the way they do that so much, why do you bother with the dub in the first place?

 

[Musashi]

As for the dub music having ADD... What's wrong with that? =P Like I just said, music sets the tone. I want to get a feel for what's happening in the scene RIGHT NOW. I want that moment to be INTIMATE, to really be there and IN MY FACE. If it means switching from a battle them to the Pokedex theme, then fine! Give it to me! Just make sure I get a feel for what's really going on right then!

Having different music cues going depending on what's happening right that second really hurts what's going on in the whole scene IMO. Let's take the first Hunter J episode. When the Pokedex music suddenly interrupted whatever music was playing I thought it really ruined the mood. Since the pokemon were just stolen the music had this serious tone that went with what was going on. But the happy-go-lucky Pokedex music really hurt the scene since this was a serious moment.

 

[poke07]

I agree with DarkMaster. However, DarkMaster, what do you think of the PUSA BGM? It is not AT ALL "in your face" like the 4Kids music. In fact, it is the opposite. Do you still like it more than the Japanese?

 

[Yash]

Not every, single BGM is a full length piece.

Then you're chastising PUSA for doing something that 4Kids did. Nostalgia's a bitch, isn't it? There are plenty of PUSA tracks that go on for longer than 5-10 seconds, more than I remember from the 4Kids dub even. I remember a scene in Once There Were Greenfields where their battle music actually went on longer than the Japanese version (which used two pieces in the battle) .

4Kids did a much better job of ensuring that, especially if it was a dramatic part.

Uh, no? I can't think of any specific examples from the 4Kids dub off the top of my head, but here's an example of the spastic composition that both companies have:

There's a scene in Team Shocker! when Dawn finds out that she won't pass the first round in the contest. The dub breaks out the generic sad music, while the Japanese version plays a serene piece from movie 2 (one that's never been heard in the dub) that captures Dawn's hopelessness well. The piece plays throughout the entire scene, and it works nicely.

When Dawn wishes Jessie good luck in the contest, the camera zooms in on her fist, clenched and shaking. In the US version, when her fist is shown, it instantly goes to this DRAMATIC MUSIC that suggests that a fight is about to break out which is completely WRONG.

Like I just said, music sets the tone.

When the tone happens to be in the middle of a serious fight, or someone just had their Pokemon stolen, the Pokedex theme sure as hell doesn't "set the tone."

 

[TheArsenalRisen]

I agree with DarkMaster. However, DarkMaster, what do you think of the PUSA BGM? It is not AT ALL "in your face" like the 4Kids music. In fact, it is the opposite. Do you still like it more than the Japanese?

I haven't listen to enough of the PUSA BGM, to be honest. I've stayed away from most of the recent seasons. I've seen some episodes, but I haven't really paid much attention to the music. That in itself probably says something.

EDIT: I'll try to find some random episodes someplace and listen to it; then I'll get back to you.

Uh, no? I can't think of any specific examples from the 4Kids dub off the top of my head, but here's an example of the spastic composition that both companies have:

There's a scene in Team Shocker! when Dawn finds out that she won't pass the first round in the contest. The dub breaks out the generic sad music, while the Japanese version plays a serene piece from movie 2 (one that's never been heard in the dub) that captures Dawn's hopelessness well. The piece plays throughout the entire scene, and it works nicely.

When Dawn wishes Jessie good luck in the contest, the camera zooms in on her fist, clenched and shaking. In the US version, when her fist is shown, it instantly goes to this DRAMATIC MUSIC that suggests that a fight is about to break out which is completely WRONG.

I haven't watched Team Shocker!, therefore I can't give any opinion about dub VS. original. Sorry.

When the tone happens to be in the middle of a serious fight, or someone just had their Pokemon stolen, the Pokedex theme sure as hell doesn't "set the tone."

I'm pretty sure the Pokedex theme sets the tone if you're staring at a Pokedex at that exact moment.

 

[Cybersai]

The dub music is hit or miss in most episodes, but at least there's about 7 pieces of music per episode kept from the Japanese version, although that's on a good day.

Its a shame the 4kids BGM got so bad from early/mid-Johto on, if they kept a good chunk of the music like they did during Kanto, I doubt anyone would be complaining.