Mafia ZD X BMG 2019 Link’s Awakening Hydra Mafia Crossover Game Thread

[Chillian]

that's not a slip, that's just like
human error, I guess. A slip, as I see them, is really, really rare.

I simply carry salt

 

[Paul and the band]

The interactions of Zinn Mask Salesman and dum dum idiots

LG, that you?

ZMS has a short conversation with one of the heads, making it seem like they aren't in scum chat together. It is small enough that it coud be faked, though.

After the possibility of a lie detector has been brought up, you refrain from answering this question. Of course on one would say they are scum, but by avoiding answering the question you are also avoiding being checked by the potential lie detector. I find this to be quite suspicious. I've got my eye on your heads.

Posts suspicion of ZMS early on, but doesn't really follow it too much.

yall got me convinced on ZMS. i feel bad for voting for sms day 1 twice in a row so i've been hesitant to vote for him but my partner thinks they're a good lynch, and bok's post got me on the decision.

Vote: ZMS



different how?

After not mentioning ZMS for a while, puts a sheep vote on the wagon. Eh.

Conclusion: They are potential partners, but there's nothing particularly pointing to such.

 

[Paul and the band]

The interactions of Zinn Mask Salesman and Mafia Nursing Home

Did a brief look-see through ZMS' posts. Here's the stuff that caught my eye, though there is more stuff in there.

He was one of the earliest who was truly on ZMS, which is definitely a good look. Unlike dum dum idiots, he actually followed through with this.

I just went through about ten pages of what could only be described as shitposting, barely anything worthwhile at all, my brain has been turned to mush from all this information overload everytime I get to the thread.
This is the largest game I've been in, I can hardly keep up with all these posts, let alone trying to filter all the crap out.
I'm inclined to vote for anyone that's made three short posts in a row that could've simply compiled it all into one message just so I don't have to keep dealing with a whole page with two Hydra's posting several posts in a row

ZMS's response to one of their points regarding the former not paying attention to the thread. Looks more like a scum trying in vain to defend themselves from a townie than a teammate interaction.

UNVOTE: Lone Wolf
VOTE: Zinn Mask Salesman

Discussed this with the other head, and we seem to be in agreement that ZMS is a better use of our vote, for reasons we've already stated before (the ISO on ZMS's posts being a large portion of posts not useful at all to actually scumhunting, the strange way of asking for other players' suspects while providing the absolute bare minimum of thoughts on their own, they may be going for an easy mislynch if S&N is actually town - which I personally am starting to feel might be the case given that self-vote and how it tends to happen on Bulba and some of the posts actually feel genuine to me, like the one when the other head on that hydra came in to unvote their self - and I still am not a fan at all on how flippant ZMS was about reading D1 content and the way they brushed actually forming reads aside for so long, despite the fact that there was absolutely NOT just baseless shade and shitposting in the first 10 pages; mafia is more likely to want to put off getting information on the table).

Yikes, that was the longest parentheses text of my life. Basically, ZMS = most scummy. Lone Wolf at least seems more willing to come in here and try to work with the thread, which is a little bit better of a look than a lot of ZMS's content.

Their vote was pretty early on, and they were the ones truly putting ZMS in danger,

This feels sheepy to me. They don't give any further reasoning on their vote past citing a couple of sources, one of them being their partner. Now that the ball is starting to roll on this lynch I think that this vote, as well as S&N's vote, are things to keep in mind after we get the information from the roll flip.

Response to aforementioned dum dum vote.

Not the one who posted that, but I do agree with the post you quoted that the flip regardless will cause sheepy votes to be important to look at, whether if ZMS flipped town (and scum may have wanted to hop on to a wagon that led to a mislynch while trying to blend in, like a path of least resistance) or if ZMS flipped scum (which I think is much more likely, hence the vote, and there would most likely be mafia partners wanting to get some town-cred by looking like they helped lynch scum). A flip in any alignment always helps to contextualize the votes and the progression that led up to them, I guess is what I'm trying to say here.

Clarification. This post makes the above one look better, as it's not trying to shade the wagon on ZMS but just a couple of players.

Conclusion: They're probably fine.

 

[Paul and the band]

The interactions of Zinn Mask Salesman and Hydreigon & Shelgon GX

But are you Town though?

These questions are kinda silly, are you expecting someone is going to say "I'm Mafia" or something?
I guess I like this role, I can't speak for my partner though, this question is also strange, why get the opinion of a single hydra or do you expect both partners to reply?

Early on, tries throwing minor shade at H&S, but not in a way that suggests he's trying to start a mislynch.

Oh snap, I legitimately missed that they avoided question one ZMS you (two-headed) sneaky snake!

H&S barely seems to mention ZMS, only having this minor comment here

Conclusion: They are potential partners by POE

 

[Paul and the band]

The interactions of Zinn Mask Salesman and Lone_Wolf

If this were the case, I'd be voting Lone Wolf, lol.

Decides to throw some shade on Lone Wolf to try and distract from his building wagon.

Can I double like this post

Agrees with some of Zinn's frustrations...

Zinn Mask Salesman: They've not really contributed a lot of meaningful content. Especially their most recent posts complaining about the multi-posts which, while somewhat understandable, don’t help anybody at all.

By the point of his reads post, his opinion had started to turn against ZMS.

We're in a weird position because our heads are at a kind of loggerheads over who to vote. I think ZMS is worth the vote, but the other head is sympathetic to their plight. Whereas they're not liking sunspear because they feel like they're dodging questions, but I see quality Town posts from them.

Acts a little indecisive regarding ZMS at first.

Let's remember that this is a Hydra game. It's legitimately possible that this head legitimately hasn't seen half of the stuff going on.

As it is, I'm not comfortable with a coin flip, especially if one option is S&N, who both of my heads have a good opinion on. I know my other head wasn't a fan of lynching ZMS, but I've been on the "lynch them" side for a while now, and I personally don't want to see S&N go.
Unovte (pretty sure we didn't have one anyway, but never hurts to be sure)
Vote: ZinnMaskSalesman

Although the other stuff doesn't look the greatest, giving up the godfather for an easy mislynch would just be a bad scum move, and makes them look better.

Conclusion: While they may be worth looking into in F3, for now they're fine.

 

[dum dum idiots]

Let's not call this a reads list. Let's just call it a list of spontaneous thoughts passing through my head.

Aflame: I mentioned yesterday that I found myself agreeing with a lot of what Aflame was saying. And after learning of ZMS's flip and looking back at their interaction I don't at all get the feeling they were in cahoots. Leaning Town.

Hydreigon & Shelgon GX: They brought up my early accusation on ZMS as a reason to potentially town read us. If they were Mafia I feel like they wouldn't have gone through that much trouble just to "clear" us. Especially considering our rather low activity, we could have probably been rather easy targets, but instead they went out of their way to bring back the post where I started suspecting ZMS. Leaning Town.

Chillian: I'll probably need to go back and reread their posts again soon but spontaneously not a whole lot comes to mind regarding this account. They've been able to pass under the radar pretty well, at least for me, and that's something scum would want to do. The one thing about them that I can think of off the top of my head is their vote on S&N yesterday. I'm guessing there were originally three Mafia accounts and I think it's likely one of the others joined ZMS on the S&N wagon. Leaning Scum.

Mafia Nursing Home: They are looking pretty good in my mind partially because of their vote on ZMS yesterday but also because I agree with their recent postings and I think they seem genuine. Leaning Town.

Lone Wolf: In all likeliness considering the size of this game there should be two Mafia accounts still living. Assuming one of them bussed their Godfather in hopes of earning some Town cred my guess is it would have been these guys. A late vote like that is exactly what a Mafioso would do upon realising that there's no hope of saving his boss. Of course I'm not saying that has to be the case, but I think it's a decent possibility. Leaning Scum.

leetic and the band: I like what they're doing right now with analysing ZMS's interactions with all of the various players. But on the other hand they were also on the S&N wagon, which in my opinion is somewhat scummy in and of itself. Of course it's not condemning in any way, but it also doesn't make them lean Town for me. They're probably somewhere in the middle.

Tommy and Hal: I find myself agreeing with a lot of the points that have been brought up against T&H. Additionally I fail to understand where they're coming from with their accusation on Aflame. It seems kind of desperate and obsessive in a way. A Mafioso who just lost their Godfather on day 1 would be pretty desperate I reckon, so I wouldn't rule that possibility out. They were also on the S&N wagon, which looks rather bad after all the flips. Leaning Scum.

dum dum idiots: They are just dumb idiots who can't even smell dumb.

Restless_Ridge: This is probably the one account that's been the hardest for me to get a read on so far. I got nothing.

thesunspear: As far as I can remember I've only ever seen both of these players play as Town roles in the past, and so far in this game I haven't noticed anything off about either so with that logic I suppose they would be Town in this game too. But of course I haven't seen their scum play so I don't know what that would look like anyway. And then there's the fact that they were also on the S&N wagon yesterday, which I personally cannot ignore. Leaning slightly Scum.

 

[Paul and the band]

The interactions of Zinn Mask Salesman and Chillian

Something about this doesn't feel right with me. Like they're just following the whims of everyone else. I know I promised I'd reread LW next, but they're on my list now.

One of the earlier ones to talk about ZMS as scummy, but not before people like Aflame had already established ZMS suspicion.

But you didn't vote for your apparent one scumread until people pushed you to. You're not sheeping, but you're still breaking under even the lightest of pressure. It doesn't feel right.

It's not a given that I'll stay on that vote anyway. If someone cracks and roleclsoms and it doesn't add up, I'll be changing my vote anyway. That happens a lot on Day 1.

I'm not saying you are going to stay here. But the fact that you waited to vote until after people pressured you to just doesn't sit right. It's all I'm saying.

They have a confrontation here. ZMS didn't even mention Chillian before this. It ultimately doesn't lead to much.

@Zinn Mask Salesman @ZinnLav @Spiritual Mask Salesman defend yo self

I don't like this. "Come up with a reason for why I should not vote you"

As for RR's question, in order of scummiest to slightly less scummy:

• S&N
• ZMS
• Decent gap
• ddi

Lists ZMS as second scummiest, but this order had been long established by others by that point. And of course, ended up on the wrong side of the wagon by day's end.

Conclusion: They're compatible, but there are a couple others who look worse

 

[thesunspear]

I don't like this. "Come up with a reason for why I should not vote you"

I want to pick at this, why is asking someone to come up with reasons to not vote for them bad?

 

[Paul and the band]

I want to pick at this, why is asking someone to come up with reasons to not vote for them bad?

It's an easy maneuver to make when they're scum together

 

[thesunspear]

thesunspear: As far as I can remember I've only ever seen both of these players play as Town roles in the past, and so far in this game I haven't noticed anything off about either so with that logic I suppose they would be Town in this game too. But of course I haven't seen their scum play so I don't know what that would look like anyway. And then there's the fact that they were also on the S&N wagon yesterday, which I personally cannot ignore. Leaning slightly Scum.

this feels over-explain-y which I tend to associate with mafia

 

[Chillian]

Since the quote is being brought up, I'll explain it
Immediately before that post someone asked where they were. Since asking that question didn't do anything or move the game forward, I tagged them in hopes of getting them in the thread and responding, as people were requesting. Idk why nobody else was tagging.

 

[thesunspear]

It's an easy maneuver to make when they're scum together

isn't it also a good way to pressure someone?

 

[Paul and the band]

isn't it also a good way to pressure someone?

Possibly, but I don't like the way they worded it

 

[dum dum idiots]

this feels over-explain-y which I tend to associate with mafia

You've seen me as Town before. It's just the way I always formulate myself.

 

[Paul and the band]

The interactions of Zinn Mask Salesman and Aflame

Zinn Mask Salesman – posted 3 times. Only talked about Lone Wolf’s question about our alignments. I am not a huge fan of these questions either, any mass-claiming exercise on day one can make the game too easy. But I’m not questioning the effectiveness of this. To the contrary, if there is a lie detector, it’s a great town move (just not a fun one). ZinnMS questioning the effectiveness of this seems very scummy. They have neither contributed to anything else in this game so far.

One of two reds on his read list, and was one of the original ZMS suspecters. Looks good.

I haven't been posting because it's day one and you can only get so far by saying "that person posts funny"

Regarding Aflame's reads, active = town, not active = mafia? Nice logic, I've seen plenty of super active Mafia, that end up becoming claimed as undeniable town because they took control of reads and the like, and I've seen plenty of inactive town that fail at their jobs and skip night actions, it takes both.

Otherwise I don't really have anything else to say, there's nothing interesting going on until the next day when people have thrown some night actions around and we can actually comment on more substantial information.
I've just seen nothing but shade being thrown around.
~Zinn

Zinn claims there was nothing in ten pages, but does single out Aflame's read list. Could be because it was something that posed a major danger to them.

I agree on your argument against activity (as I also pointed out earlier). Contribution and willingness to confront others, however, is different.

With 14 pages, I cannot imagine there is nothing else to say...

Aflame's response to Zinn's nonsense.

Officer here, I can see why the reads list is heavily realiant on activity, but I think koki brings good points up about people, I can see why ZMS replied to a read that put them as scum but I'm slightly suspicious that they have no thoughts on the rest of the game, and might be deadweight for the rest of this phrase since they feel as though nothing interesting is going on feels like a cop out. I discuss with my head on the best option to go forward with. Scumlord's answers weren't the best, since it was lazy spy replying not constrainer who made the reads, still not satisfied with it.

More suspicion of Zinn, it's piling on in a way that doesn't read at all like bussing.

Apologies for the many posts and the confusion. We had a bit of an internal misunderstanding of who we wanted to vote for.

Personally I feel like Scumlord deserves to die. Any implosion should not be rewarded. But in all honesty, mafia members rarely implode... Lynching probably wouldn’t do more than to set an example.
Thus, I prefer to lynch ZMS. He’s already been at the top of my scumlist for ages. We just agreed internally that we’ll go for ZMS. So we’re going to change our vote.

I’m using my phone right now so I won’t go in more details for now, I already explained my suspicions against them in previous posts. Just posting this to fix a misunderstanding. (Koki)


Unvote: Scumlord and Noobs
Vote: Zinn Mask Salesman

Think I already mentioned earlier that this makes him look good.

Because I (Koki) severely dislike self-voting implosions. They are usually town, but my hands itch to lynch them. Even if only to discourage maffiosi from doing the same because they too will otherwise receive a free pass when faking such an implosion if we now let S&N get away with it. In ZD, this happened a lot in the past. Townies under pressure would eventually always crack and would then be exempt from any accusations because we all knew they would be town, and they always were. But that is a horrible tactic to save yourself at the end. You should save yourself using evidence, not by self-voting and last-minute claiming. Plus, if maffia knows that anyone who does that gets away with it, it's a nice insentive to do the same.

I do would not fight for S&N's survival, if he is the only alternative, I can live with that. But my mind tells me to go for someone who is actually likely to be scum (ZMS). S&N would be more of a symbolic lynch.

Continuing the theme of pressing a ZMS lynch while a S&N mislynch hung in the background, while you'd expect scum to do the opposite

Conclusion: Aflame is almost certainly not ZMS's teammate.

 

[Paul and the band]

The interactions of ZinnMaskSalesman and Tommy and Hal

Surprisingly little, considering the latter's 100+ posts

I can't tell if you're trolling or if you're serious...

Only interaction between the two is this little banter.

@Restless_Ridge this is better than zms i think

Actually maybe just neither claim tbh, is zms on rn?

Only two posts that even mention ZMS. Neither are particularly towny.

Conclusion: Tommy and Hal is a suspect by POE.

 

[thesunspear]

Hydreigon & Shelgon GX: They brought up my early accusation on ZMS as a reason to potentially town read us. If they were Mafia I feel like they wouldn't have gone through that much trouble just to "clear" us. Especially considering our rather low activity, we could have probably been rather easy targets, but instead they went out of their way to bring back the post where I started suspecting ZMS. Leaning Town.

This is just wrong as mafia need to have town reads to blend in. The game isn't going to be solved by lynching the people who aren't putting in effort. You are essentially town reading someone based on activity. Find better reasons to town read someone please

Tommy and Hal: I find myself agreeing with a lot of the points that have been brought up against T&H. Additionally I fail to understand where they're coming from with their accusation on Aflame. It seems kind of desperate and obsessive in a way. A Mafioso who just lost their Godfather on day 1 would be pretty desperate I reckon, so I wouldn't rule that possibility out. They were also on the S&N wagon, which looks rather bad after all the flips. Leaning Scum.

Which points? Also, isn't it more fair to say that Aflame is making an obsessive accusation on T&H? Also also, can you really call T&H's actions "desperate and obsessive" when they are quite calmly refuting the claims Aflame makes? Also also also, how certain are you that a wolf's desperation would even show? I thought this game was about lying to people, guess I screwed that up too. I guess you're right that this isn't a read list cause it's very, what's the word, I want a word that's basically imagery of a fish flopping out of water. It's floppy.

Restless_Ridge: This is probably the one account that's been the hardest for me to get a read on so far. I got nothing.

bull, they're the second highest poster in the game and they pushed pretty hard for the ZMS lynch. This feels borderline intentional.

leetic and the band: I like what they're doing right now with analysing ZMS's interactions with all of the various players. But on the other hand they were also on the S&N wagon, which in my opinion is somewhat scummy in and of itself. Of course it's not condemning in any way, but it also doesn't make them lean Town for me. They're probably somewhere in the middle.

why is it scummy to be on the S&N wagon? From your point of view there have to be townies on the S&N wagon; why do you scum read everyone on it?

 

[thesunspear]

vote: dum dum idiots
dabs

 

[Paul and the band]

The interactions of Zinn Mask Salesman and Restless_Ridge

Moving on to the heavy posters...

you only have one candidate this point into the game? why not just vote them?

Calls ZMS out for not voting the suspect he's tunneling.

@Restless_Ridge Please man, make use the of multiquote button, I don't want to have to sift through like 10 posts of yours in a row

ZMS basically tells RR to shut up. Not what I'd expect teammates to discuss in the open.

these are the last two posts you have made. these are complaints on my posting style and i dont understand why you're not contributing anything else. do you have anything else to contribute outside of a push on scumlords? any townreads?

Restless calls him out for not contributing, similar to previous users such as Aflame

i dont actually townread ZMS but their wagon built waaaaaay tooooo quickly with questionable votes from questionable people but maybe it's another fenrir situation hal @Tommy and Hal

Starts to question the ZMS wagon, but doesn't fully denounce it. A more questionable post, but still understandable.

where tf is zms

It's the aggressive nature of posts like this that makes me doubt RR and ZMS are teammates.

you dont get tonal reads at all? are associations your only way of gaining reads?

i dont actually agree with the latter part; you're very egregious and that's really not the case of your hydra not meshing well or something

Once again, calls out ZMS for not contributing. An awful lot of attention being placed on ZMS here.

regardless @Zinn Mask Salesman should probably be claiming if they're going to be around closer to dl since it seems like the lynch has been consolidated on

Calling ZMS again, to see if he would claim. Since he didn't appear to have a fakeclaim ready, this is another good look.

@Tommy and Hal we should probably join one of zms/scumlords

Apparently at one point voted for ZMS, though I couldn't find the post where he does this

Conclusion: They are unlikely to be teammates.

 

[Paul and the band]

The interactions of Zinn Mask Salesman and thesunspear

Final one! Not a whole lot from ZMS's end

...oh

starting with you, right?

Response to ZMS asking for people to post reads, and the first real interaction.

if they are not trying to attract much attention why would they post such a terrible unsolicited reads list?

Debates ZMS over his questionable read on S&N. This goes on for some time.

I could see that. We've already talked about the read list, can you point to some other posts they made that fit this "CWACing badly" hypothesis?

Overall, enough for distancing but not enough to put ZMS in real danger.

the important thing is have you developed any reads beyond that of S&N?

Calls ZMS for not having any real reads... like everyone else was doing

I don't think I support lynching ZMS, that response to votes felt more pure than not

-Sunfan

Oh dear.

Meta read on sms says no. Don't know how much Zinn vs sms have been posting but the "lynch me if you want" attitude I would say is more likely to be town sms. I agree that they aren't a bad lynch but S&N is just the better lynch for all the same reasons.

Tried to resist it to the end, but it was inevitable.

Conclusion: Nothing that looks particularly good for them, thus they are a suspect.