Mafia All-Stars Mafia - Endgame - Homeward Bound - 7/21

[sharkshocker]

Re: All-Stars Mafia - D2 - Instinct - 7/1

Hmm, I was expecting the mafia to target HumanDawn over the night phase. If they took that direction, it would most likely prove Leggo's innocence and we wouldn't be investigating her as much. If HumanDawn was targeted, I'd come to the conclusion that Leggo may be scum trying to throw us off of her scent. However, they randomly targeted Peeko, leaving Leggo's role once again uncertain as we have no proof that she really does have the lie detector ability. Then again, this may just be the mafia trying to force our hand into a mislynch on Leggo or HumanDawn this phase.

Can you clarify that part?

I don't think mafia would pick a target randomly as the nightkill is their most significant asset, why do you think it was random?

I meant if HumanDawn was night killed and flipped town, there would be reason to believe that Leggo was telling the truth about the lie detector claim. Perhaps I should have said "seemingly random", because that's how it appeared to me. However, I'm sure there's was probably a specific reason that Peeko was targeted.

You say there'd be reason to believe Leggo's claim if HumanDawn was killed, but from the second part of the statement it sounds like that'll actually cause you to suspect Leggo. Since neither HumanDawn nor Leggo were targeted this night, what are your thoughts on the lie detector claim?

@sharkshocker; Why do you think Peeko was killed?

I think Peeko was killed because some of the more active players are mafia.

 

[Pokemaster97]

Re: All-Stars Mafia - D2 - Instinct - 7/1

Posting these quick observations before bed. (It's kinda incomplete)

Pheonicks- First serious vote on Mijz. Casts 1st vote on Leggo (Citing my and Midorikawa’s suspicions) Very active day 1. Unvotes Leggo and ends up with no vote at the end either. Last minute vote for Flaze. (Town?)

Mijz- Replies aggressively, votes Pheonicks claiming wallposts as a scumtell (despite lack of wallposts). Immediately defends Leggo. (Town)

Mido- Immediately sides with Mijz and votes Pheonicks for starting a bandwagon despite the fact that HD actually started the bandwagon with the second vote. Unvotes Leggo. (Uncertain)

Leggo- Tags along with Mijz and HD with voting Pheonicks. Strange reaction once first vote is cast against her. Finally unvotes Pheonicks late into the phase. (Scum read)

Masamune- Casts a no lynch vote. That’s about it. (uncertain)

CrackFox- votes for Pheonicks calling his actions slapdash. Typically responds to what is asked of her. (Uncertain)

Flaze- Makes good observations when he does post. (Town?)

Yato- Gives Leggo advice. Nothing else really stands out to me. (uncertain, leaning towards town)

Solayoh- Makes a joke vote while we’re already deep in discussion, offers nothing else really. (Uncertain

Prince Vultan- No lynch, not much to go on. (uncertain)

GastlyGibus- Extremely insightful posts. Town vibes from him

Soulmaster- Rather unhelpful. Says things we typically already know and doesn’t reply to questions often. (uncertain, leaning towards scum)

Zexy- Doesn’t post much at first, but posts his opinions before the first day phase is done. (uncertain)

Momoka- Posts opinions when directly asked. Seems to side with Pheonicks thought wise. No real alarm bells. (uncertain)

Now, my top suspect at the moment that I'd consider looking into is @HumanDawn; Despite that Pheonicks said he was trying to start a bandwagon on Mijz, HD was actually the one who got it going with that second vote. Later on he switches his vote to Leggo after Pheonicks cast a vote on Leggo as well. A trend I'm seeing in this game is that HumanDawn rarely makes independent decisions, he opts to follow the crowd's (namely very active hunters like Pheonicks) actions. When he hears about Leggo's lie detector test, he quickly offers to be the lie detector test subject and then unvotes Leggo after other people begin unvoting him. Finally, his end of day vote (and the first vote where he cast a vote without anyone else voting them first) was Peeko, who was coincidentally night killed during the night.

Vote:HumanDawn , not permanent, but I'd like to hear his defense.

Also, I still don't feel at ease with that lie detector claim. There's just so much that's unclear and ambiguous with the claim, so Leggo is also on my suspect list still.

 

[Mijzelffan]

Re: All-Stars Mafia - D2 - Instinct - 7/1

I can't really contribute atm and will post more later, but come on don't vote the guy who got confirmed innocent. Like even if you don't believe the claim it's still not smart to vote him at this stage.

 

[Pokemaster97]

Re: All-Stars Mafia - D2 - Instinct - 7/1

Unvote:HumanDawn

FOS:HumanDawn

That was totally supposed to be an FOS not a vote, sorry about that.

 

[GastlyGibus]

Re: All-Stars Mafia - D2 - Instinct - 7/1

Sorry guys. I've been steadily chipping away at my list of "important things GastlyGibus needs to stop procrastinating on" today, and I haven't had time to post. I just got home now and I'm dead tired (it is now 1:30 in the morning as I type this out), so I'll look over the thread tomorrow and offer an opinion on what's been said. I will echo what others have said though in that the Peeko NK was really confusing, but there's really nothing to be gained in discussing that. Random townie died, leaving us all clueless, which I'm sure is exactly what the mafia wants. What with our no-lynch on day one, we're pretty much right back where we started, minus one townie. >_>

 

[Midorikawa]

Re: All-Stars Mafia - D2 - Instinct - 7/1

@GastlyGibus; no we're not. We have much more now and it's much more active. We might not have gotten much from the night kill but we still got something.


@sharkshocker; why does Peeko dying make you think that the mafia are active?

@Pokemaster97; I've stated this multiple times already and I'm stating again because misunderstandings can lead to bad things. I did not vote Phoenicks for voting. I voted him because I was helping Mijz tie the the votes and beanies of his post after his vote. I'm a supporter of pressure voting so the thing doesn't run me wrkng, it was the other actions that's did.

 

[Almonds]

Re: All-Stars Mafia - D2 - Instinct - 7/1

There were people who raised suspicion on Leggo's claim, so by not killing Human, both Leggo and Human are still under suspicion. Apart from that, Peeko was probably random-killed.

@MarioMiner; what are your thoughts on the thread and players? Also why wont you trust anyone?

1. I haven't an idea. I feel like it's still too confusing for me to understand yet because this is just my second mafia game.
2. Because, as of now, I haven't got any information about others, and I need info about others before I can trust information to.

Trust issues are common in mafia games, though sometimes you should go with what you 'feel' about others. Like, 'this post feels mafia-ish!'. There doesn't have to be a reason behind everything right then and there. Also, information is not always available, so trusting your instincts is a good way to start.

UNVOTE: Glaze
VOTE: Solayoh

His responses are neutral and vague as though taking the easy way out and thus avoiding a direct stance.

Neutral and vague = scummy? Maybe they could be avoiding attention for reasons?

After reading the thread, I feel like both Mijzelffan and Phoenicks are town, since its common for the mafia not to get involved on day one. I'm not sure about the lie detector claim, since they could easily be mafia and just looking at someone who is not part of the mafia. That's all I really got right now.

On the contrary, it's actually common for mafia to get involved on Day 1, look like active scum-hunters, appeal as pro-town, and get trusted by town members. Seeing how people are saying that Mijzelffan and Phoenicks usually debates a lot on Day 1 in other games as well, it could be that they discussed it in the mafia QT beforehand and decided to go with that scenario on criticizing each other's posts on Day 1. I can't really point it out but... somehow, would it be overthinking if the whole argument could be in fact, set-up? Also there's that part of there being bandwagons yet nobody died. I'll have to re-read Day 1 to get my thoughts organized. Anyways, FoS on both Mijzelffan and Phoenicks.

 

[HumanDawn]

Re: All-Stars Mafia - D2 - Instinct - 7/1

@GliscorMan;

Could you please be more accurate regarding phase time left? You say we're midway in the phase at 5:35AM in my own timezone, yet the update time is at 3AM. I thought the phase would end at 5AM in Day 1 because it was 5:08 AM when you posted the mid phase post.

Now, my top suspect at the moment that I'd consider looking into is @HumanDawn; Despite that Pheonicks said he was trying to start a bandwagon on Mijz, HD was actually the one who got it going with that second vote.

And this makes me more likely to be Mafia how? I'm sure you've played games with me and know that it's how I roll, if 1 or 2 votes isn't enough to make people to care about playing the damn game they signed up for, then I'd appreciate more votes.

Later on he switches his vote to Leggo after Pheonicks cast a vote on Leggo as well.

You did the same, only it took me a while to vote Leggo because I wanted to hear what she had to say and I was talking with Phoenicks privately plus trying to lighten up the mood with the post I made. I've already explained this already to Zexy.

A trend I'm seeing in this game is that HumanDawn rarely makes independent decisions, he opts to follow the crowd's (namely very active hunters like Pheonicks) actions.

It was my decision to vote Mijzelffan(which couldn't be entirely independent) Peeko and defend Phoenicks, and it was also my independent decision to vote Prince Vultan this phase and ask people questions to give them something they could maybe talk about. I don't know how that's even rare, the only crowd following I did was vote Leggo then unvote her and that was my own decision after my own thinking. I didn't follow Phoenicks's Flaze vote, although I would have if the phase ended earlier than I thought in the hopes somebody else voted him. Plus, it's not the only thing I did.

When he hears about Leggo's lie detector test, he quickly offers to be the lie detector test subject and then unvotes Leggo after other people begin unvoting him.

Yeah, I offered it but I wanted to think it through instead of unvoting instantly. If Leggo was my scum partner I'd have unvoted a lot quicker, but she isn't, and if I didn't have anything to hide I wouldn't have said that phrase first and so quickly too.

Finally, his end of day vote (and the first vote where he cast a vote without anyone else voting them first) was Peeko, who was coincidentally night killed during the night.

Okay, how does this make me more likely to be Mafia?

Vote:HumanDawn , not permanent, but I'd like to hear his defense.

You saying "not permanent" makes sense referring to a vote, not an FoS. It's interesting how it switches to an FoS which you claim was what you meant to say after Mijzelffan points out how I'm likely confirmed innocent.

UNVOTE: Prince Vultan
VOTE: Pokemaster97

Not mainly for Beck and Phoenicks's reasons, but because the posted reads are bad, and not in a "I don't agree with them." way, but because they don't make sense to me. I know they're meant to be quick and incomplete, but I don't get how Flaze's posting is good observations, how Yato just giving Leggo good advice gives you a Town vibe on her(and like, i hardly recall any other posts from her), over say, Crackfox. Leggo unvote on Phoenicks pretty much prevented him from being lynched, and it wasn't that late either. The case on me is pretty interesting too, especially with the vote apparently being meant to be an FoS.

 

[Phoenicks]

Re: All-Stars Mafia - D2 - Instinct - 7/1

@Midorikawa; I'm inclined to agree with sharkshocker's opinion. When I'm scum, I don't want to stand out by killing the most active players so everyone thinks "why isn't Phoenicks dead yet?"

On the other side, there are probably several quieter mafia (As Beck implied). Killing Peeko doesn't unmask any of the smoother ones. I'm going to take Peeko's death as sign that one of the town's biggest town reads is scum.

However, this is way too early to enter paranoia. I think it's time first to act on our scum reads. Pokemaster97 has the biggest wagon -- what does everyone think of it, who has alternatives, and what do you think of the three of us on it?

 

[Prince Vultan]

Re: All-Stars Mafia - D2 - Instinct - 7/1

Righty, had a bit of a read through and caught up a bit. First time with a forum mafia, used to EpicMafia which is a lot more reactionary rather than through logic. I NL'd D1 just to see if anything developed and to make sure I didn't get taken out for inactivity (Again, EM reflex)

Not sure Peeko was necessarily taken down by a Mafia, there could be a Vigilante or some other night killer (Not sure whether there's 3rd party in this or not)
Not sure where voting a silent person gets us, might be someone trying to blend in to get reports, but equally could be the opposite, bit of a coin toss on that one.
Can see why there's a bit of a bandwagon on Pokemaster, but at the same time I do agree with the FoS' on Leggo. Doesn't stop them being partners trying to look like they're not together though.

I'm going to join the Pokemaster97 wagon, mainly because I think there could be more than just 'theory' to the night kill.

Vote: Pokemaster97

 

[CrackFox]

Re: All-Stars Mafia - D2 - Instinct - 7/1

Firstly, apologies for not answering the questions put to me sooner. I had a lame family bbq to attend the other day and even though I viewed the thread and saw the questions, I didn't have enough time to formulate a decent answer so I left it until today.
@Phoenicks; Out of 5? I'd say a hesitant 3. His claim makes sense, combined with his attitude. When i've approached him before on occassion where he's mafia, he's always notable evasive and acts like he'd really rather I wasn't speaking to him. His attitude in this game is very approachable. I don't know why he feels he can trust me particularly but when someone backs you up, you're inclined to believe they have good intentions I guess. There's probably an extra layer of trust since we are friends and generally talk quite openly with eachother. It's not like I approached him or he approached me, the subject of this mafia game came up in a general conversation and since we both felt pretty comfortable with the tone, we claimed to eachother. I didn't mention that part before, I know. My thinking was that if I told the thread i'd claimed to Mijz and I'd died last night, then the FoS would be pointed at Mijz, having known my role and potentially seen it as a threat. I feared that would be the accussation but for the record, I don't think that would happen, even if Mijz is mafia.

The reason I claimed to Mijz was mostly because my role isn't particularly threatening in any way. If I was mafia, killing someone with my role wouldn't be a priority so I felt pretty safe sharing it. Had I been a cop or doctor, I would not have claimed to him for example.

I'd c/p logs but i'd have to edit must of the sensitive info out to protect us both and with all that taken away, it wouldn't amount to much.

I'm confused as to why i'm seen as suspicious when the majority are getting town vibes from Mijzelffan anyway. If apparently sticking up for him is my only crime.

Anyway, I wouldn't say I had a strong feeling about anyone in particular but a few people that stick out to some extent include, GastlyGibus, Solayah, Flaze and Midorikawa.

GasltyGibus for reasons already stated. Solayah because he's contributed nothing in terms of discussion but he's reading the thread and posting so it's not like he has no time for the game. Flaze because he completely twisted my words about the whole meta debate and he hasn't offered any serious reads or taken part in discussions. Even when called out he doesn't seem to defend himself. Mido is only slight. She's posted a lot but her posts mainly consist of tagging others and asking for their thoughts on things. I haven't seen her offer much of her own convictions which is something i'd expect more of from her.

Now, about the night kill. When I saw the victim it struck me as a random kill. As mafia i've placed them before. The reasons usually being 'we can't go after so and so because I had a dispute with them so it might seem obvious' etc. That was probably at play here as well to some extent. I don't have much of a feeling about Pokemaster97 but I don't really think his theory behind the NK makes him suspicious. So, when all is said and done;

Vote: Solayoh

For reasons stated above. There's a few people I could have chosen but they seem like they aren't going to contribute much anyway so it's less of a risk in terms of potentially losing a helpful player.

Flaze would be a good choice as well but if he's not online to defend himself, it can wait I guess.

 

[Phoenicks]

Re: All-Stars Mafia - D2 - Instinct - 7/1

Righty, had a bit of a read through and caught up a bit. First time with a forum mafia, used to EpicMafia which is a lot more reactionary rather than through logic. I NL'd D1 just to see if anything developed and to make sure I didn't get taken out for inactivity (Again, EM reflex)

You and I, friend, will get along famously. Such a shame they've stopped playing all my favorite setups.

But: Do you have any suspects besides Pokemaster?

 

[UltimateMaximus]

Re: All-Stars Mafia - D2 - Instinct - 7/1

With all of these votes on Pokemaster, I'm not sure this is gonna do much. But I'll do it anyways, Vote: Pokemaster97, mainly because of the nightkill theory thing. Another person I'm suspicious of is Solayoh because of the statements before me.

 

[Pokemaster97]

Re: All-Stars Mafia - D2 - Instinct - 7/1

So most people's main argument for voting me was because I posted a theory about what could have happened during the night to try to move the phase along since no one was talking, kind of like Pheonicks attempted to start discussion with his first D1 vote? Why is trying to start discussion suddenly suspicious now? I mean I can understand how it can look like "wow, he sure does know a lot about the night kill", they again, I'm the only one who really commented on it, so of course I'm going to look knowledgeable if it's just me.

Now all of these inactive people roll in and jump on my bandwagon now that there's votes going, essentially letting everyone else do the work for them and offering little to nothing for reasoning except "Well, everyone else voted!" For example, Prince Vultan and UltimateMaximus agreed with some of my reasoning in their vote post, but opted to vote me anyways. Where were you guys day 1 and for the past 36 hours?

 

[Phoenicks]

Re: All-Stars Mafia - D2 - Instinct - 7/1

I voted for you because of Beck's case on your Leggo vote, but I'll be happy to:

Unvote: Pokemaster97
Vote: UltimateMaximus

Do you have any suspicions besides vague references to Solayoh and Pokemaster97 for having ideas about why the mafia killed Peeko? @UltimateMaximus

 

[Solayoh]

Re: All-Stars Mafia - D2 - Instinct - 7/1

Well I seem to be picking up lots of votes and suspicions, could vote PokeMaster97 to make sure he goes over me, but I don't think he's acting that suspicious so I'm not going to vote him

I'm also not that quiet, I did a brief count yesterday and I've actually commented more than 12 others on here, so with 24 players I'm in the top half.
It's hard to get reads as there are so many of you. In Paper Mario, there was 16 of us at the start, here there is 24, that's 50% extra, and I'm going to confess I've not been able to read through everything as I got sort of behind a bit, but now I am able to devote much more attention to the game, and will become even more active, and hopefully be able to form more strong opinions.

@Midorikawa; you accused me of being vague in my opinions and I have to be honest, you are right, at the moment, my opinions are quite vague, even in my own head.

 

[Phoenicks]

Re: All-Stars Mafia - D2 - Instinct - 7/1

I was going to link you a scumhunter's guide, but all the detailed ones from outside here are written by bloviating jackanapes.

If you really have free time, here's something that works for me: Sketch out all the votes cast in a given phase (use, say, an excel sheet) and note the patterns. You'll find moments where the thread is going off in one direction until someone appears and tries pushing it a different way. Don't worry about who's starting cases or who's following them. The more experienced the player, the more subtly they get you to think what they want you to. And the scummier, the more they direct attention away from their own scumbuddies.

 

[Zexy]

Re: All-Stars Mafia - D2 - Instinct - 7/1

Spoiler

@Zexy; being new is not an excuse. Which I find it confusing as to why you bring up CF excusing new players and then call out Solayih being hypocritical.

I know, but Solayoh is new too and tried to avoid answering some questions or gave neutral answers. I just drew some parralel to Solayoh and Prince Vultan.
While being new is not a complete excuse, sometimes, you have to think of such factors too, if you don't want to mislynch.

I also see @Leggo; as innocent;. Claiming Lie Detector, but delaying the results, would do less good if she were Mafia trying to clear @HumanDawn;. Why not clear him right away? Problem solved with half of the hassle. I would like to believe that they’re both innocent. Her role seemed so specific that I doubt a rookie player could have cooked it up so easily. No guarantees, as others have said, but I would like to think so for the time being. The discussion seems to have been put aside for now, which I think is best.

Not really, if she were mafia she saved herself from the lynch that way. The only scenario that doesn't make sense to me is Leggo Town HD Mafia. Yes, so said rookie player either has it and is town, or one of their less rookie scumbuddies thought of it for her, so it doesn't say much.

The list of those who didn't add anything entirely substantial to yesterday's discussion is overwhelming... Take a look for yourself:

Midorikawa, Zexy, Yato, Momoka, Tychiel, Leggo, MarioMiner, Beck (myself), UltimateMaximus, Rabbit, Soulmaster, Joltik, sharshocker, Flaze, Solayoh, and Pokemaster97.

I think the No Lynch was purposeful passive play. (Alliterations, FTW.)

I know I am in there which is kinda rare for me, but this was a very big Day 1 and I am kinda more busy these days and I made a big post anyways and by the time I came in I really did not want to vore Leggo. Indeed, No Lynching early on can cause huge trouble to the town...

About CrackFox, the way she said that if she got killed, we would FoS Mijz knowing her role, yet her role is not a power one is somewhat strange. She still gave some decent reasoning for why she claimed to Mijzelffan and I don’t find that really bad. While I agree with some points of hers, I could see her trying to “save” Leggo. In the end, she is not aggressive despite being active, I would expect mafia to try to turn things around their way this early on.

About Pokemaster97, Beck’s point is very good, and while nightkill explaining is not really a scumtell, the way he voted and tried to look active definitely seems like it. Add the fact he voted-unvoted a person that was "confirmed". As it is now, I want a lynch since the NL last phase helped us in nothing. I know that I am doing the very same thing again this dayphase, posting something big late, and I’ll now join a bandwagon, but I have some slight time issues, sorry. We should also check Day 1's posting more, I may do it if I find the time soon...

VOTE: Pokemaster97

EDIT: I got ninja'd bits. About Solayoh, I think he is cryptic in general as a player, and he tries to give some explanations, okay for me for now. UltimateMaximus... I have only seen him as mafia and he likes joining bandwagons late without really posting much. Leaning towards scum.

Biggest town reads are GastlyGibus and HumanDawn, next up is Leggo and Beck. CrackFox, Mijzelffan, Phoenicks maybe, but I know better than getting too many townreads early on, there should be some scum hidden here...

 

[Phoenicks]

Re: All-Stars Mafia - D2 - Instinct - 7/1

That goes for @Tychiel; @MarioMiner; and @Masamune; as well.

I'd love to hear each of you concretely suspect someone, if no no superior reason than you RNG'd the mafia and are committed to lynching the luckless.

 

[Pokemaster97]

Re: All-Stars Mafia - D2 - Instinct - 7/1

For what it's worth Vote:UltimateMaximus

Until I hear a response from him.

Just an observation, while Beck made a really good observation and called out valid flaws in my gameplay, it bothers me a bit how he was inactive day 1 and night one, and then during this phase he plants seeds that changes the course of the game and then goes back into lurking again despite being online all day and not really keeping up-to-date with the developments. He didn't even reply to my rebuttal.