Generation VI: The Future

[Esserise]

Re: A new Pokemon game idea

I understand it is a big conclusion to jump too. But, I thought that because normally there is 150 Pokemon in a new region, while in XY there wasn't in 80. They're running out of ideas, but that's probable because most people took the cool looking designs, so they can't use them in a realy game(for copying).

Not to sound rude, but that in itself yet another far-away conclusion. There are so many, just things in general in the world for them to use as the basis for a Pokémon, that hell, I don't even know if it's possible to "run out of ideas," especially when they pay a whole team of people to come up with new Pokémon.

I think a far more likely explanation is simply that they're avoiding over-saturation. It's smarter. We have nearly 1,000 Pokémon right now, with numerous alternative forms to offer different strategies within a single Pokémon. And given how diverse the current pool of Pokémon is already, we just plain and simply don't need to get 130+ new ones every Generation. Let the ones that exist get some mileage before immediately jumping on to the next new thing.

I know I use this analogy every time, but say if you own a convenience store that sells bread. You have 100 loaves in stock, and expect to sell about 30 before your next shipment will arrive. So do you order 50 more, or 200 more? Obviously you order 50, because 200 would be way more than you need, and then you would just have a ton of bread loaves sitting around, not getting bought or used at all.

Mega Evolutions also play into this logic. They allow them to update older Pokémon with yet more new options, while still being able to promote it as something new. Keep in mind that, when you factor in Mega Evolutions, who are essentially new Pokémon as far as the creation and design process goes, we did get well over 100 new Pokémon - just in a way that optimized existing Pokémon, instead of saturating the pool further.

 

[Zeb]

Heh, we pretty much posted the same thing one minute apart, Endolise. We're on the same level.

I'd rather they introduced smaller batches if they are given the treatment of the XY cast anyway. Because the majority of XY mons are unique in typing, ability, battle qualities etc and most are actually at least good and/or usable at the same time. I'd rather have a smaller generation with a better quality (in concept, design and usability) of mons than 100+ where half of them are garbage in battle and have bad designs (latter is subjective of course).

The XY bunch overall is incredibly good imo, we got some fantastic new concepts/designs/typings/whatever and most are usable. Couldn't ask for more personally. So smaller groups are fine with me as long as more love is put into them.

But I fear I'm getting off-topic for this thread.

 

[Dr. Buni]

Re: A new Pokemon game idea

I understand it is a big conclusion to jump too. But, I thought that because normally there is 150 Pokemon in a new region, while in XY there wasn't in 80. They're running out of ideas, but that's probable because most people took the cool looking designs, so they can't use them in a realy game(for copying).

That is not true at all. In both Johto and Sinnoh, the number of Pokémon wasn't really close to 150. So you can't say usually there are around 150 new Pokémon in new generations. I also disagree the reason for less new Pokémon in XY is because "Game Freak is running out of ideas", the reason seems to be the fact we are close to reaching 1000 Pokémon species and contrary to popular belief, more isn't always better. Game Freak probably figured out that adding 100~150 new Pokémon every 3~4 year would definitely hurt the series in the long run.

Also, saying "there is a huge lack of new Pokémon in XY" is factually incorrect, by the way. 80~ new Pokémon is a lot, plus the mega evolutions do count as new Pokémon (I personally don't count them as new, but well, the creators seem to count). I also want to add that I truly hope they keep adding less new Pokémon in the future generations. Generation VII should introduce around 80~ again, if not less.

 

[Lufenium]

I'm okay with less new Pokemon in future Gens. I think as long as there's around 60+, it's fine.

My only wish in this regard is that they start looking at different animals for inspiration for new Mons. Hummingbirds and dolphins, HELLOOOOOO.

 

[Peppermint Phoenix]

I should be able to do two runs with a team of six pokemon I like without a lot of old pokemon or repeating. I used a team of two gen one Pokémon and four gen six 6 pokemon. After that I didn't have much to go on after. Here's an example: New pokemon only happen every few years you're excited to get them. Say Ground dude likes ground types. The only ground types added aside from forms are the Raticate archetype and a post game legendary. How is that a good batch?

Still not buying a gen 6.5 deal.

There are only 72 including events not 75 without them. Differences are more significant for smaller numbers.

 

[Zeb]

How is that a good batch?

You're kinda missing the point I was making. It's a good batch because instead of focusing on quantity they focused on quality. And I know that I'd rather have quality over quantity any day, especially when we already have so many Pokemon that it ends up so easy for things to get lost in the crowd and forgotten if they aren't anything special. It's not like we need another 150 adding when we have 600+ already. But I guess that's where we differ, if you have a problem with them introducing a fewer number at the cost of making them better all around.

What's the point in them adding another 150 when half of them end up being complete bunk anyway? Is it not better to focus attention on a smaller group, introduce fewer and make them more interesting, unique and useful?

You only have to look at Talonflame and Diggersby in comparison to Unfezant/Pidgeot and Watchog/Raticate to see that they spent more time making sure things were good/unique this time around rather than thinking "sod it, it's only meant to be used in the early part of the game".

Of course quality and quantity shouldn't have to be mutually exclusive, but it's the world we live in.

 

[Quetsol Melt]

I've said this on another Pokémon forum site and I'll say it here too.

I personally hated the slim pickings I had to choose from in Pokémon X. Whenever a new generation comes out, my team consist of solely New Pokémon introduced in that generation and I felt like I barely had any to choose from that weren't already shown prior to the games release. I like the element of surprise whenever I play a new generation Pokémon game and I was upset that Nintendo revealed 42 out of the 69 New Pokémon available in-game prior to the release of the games, all of these guys were officially revealed by Nintendo...

Spoiler

1) Chespin
2) Fennekin
3) Froakie
4) Xerneas
5) Yveltal
6) Sylveon
7) Fletchling
8) Gogoat
9) Pancham
10) Helioptile
11) Vivillon
12) Noivern
13) Talonflame
14) Skrelp
15) Clauncher
16) Scatterbug
17) Spewpa
18) Litleo
19) Flabébé
20) Honegde
21) Pangoro
22) Spritzee
23) Swirlix
24) Inkay
25) Malamar
26) Trevenant (we only knew its Japanese name though)
27) Bunnelby
28) Skiddo
29) Dedenne
30) Pyroar
31) Quilladin
32) Braixen
33) Frogadier
34) Furfrou
35) Meowstic
36) Tyrunt
37) Amaura
38) Tyrantrum
39) Aurorus
40) Doublade
41) Aromatisse
42) Slurpuff

I really wish they had shown less especially if they knew that there weren't going to be that many New Pokémon in the game. Like why reveal Tyrantrum and Aurorus so soon after showing their basic stages, Tyrunt and Amaura? I know that I could have of course stayed away from Pokémon news for a while but who can actually pull through with something like that? I'm happy that I at least stood away from anything that didn't come from Nintendo themselves but I was still sad both by the number of New Pokémon and how many were revealed pre release.

I also do know (and believe) that quality will always be better than quantity but looking at the several great Pokémon designs we got this gen I'm confident they could have at least come up with a couple dozen more superb designs (I'm aware that they did Mega Pokémon too), though I'm not sure if that still meant that the games could have still come out in October 2013, they probably would have still needed to work more on creating 3D models and giving them movement, attack animations and Amie animations too.

I hope since they will probably be using the Pokémon models from X&Y in the next couple generations that it means they'll have plenty of time and resources to create more New Pokémon in Generation VII. Hell I'm not asking for 135 New Pokémon or even 156 New Pokémon like Gen V introduced. Anywhere between 100-115 would be perfect and anything beyond that is just extra icing on the cake.

 

[Dr. Buni]

I should be able to do two runs with a team of six pokemon I like without a lot of old pokemon or repeating.

Well, I have good news for you then: You are perfectly able to do that with less than 80 new Pokémon. In fact, I did two runs in Pokémon Y without using any older Pokémon. How great is that? Hm?! You know, I am still waiting for a good argument supporting the idea that Game Freak should keep pumping 100+ Pokémon out every generation. The fact you don't like using older Pokémon is not a good argument, that is just your personal preference (which I find baffling, by the way) and your preference is just, well, your preference. Personally, I don't think Pokémon lose their value once a new generation is released, in fact, what I think devalue Pokémon is releasing 100~150 new ones every generation.

Something I think it is quite sad is that a lot of the Pokémon released in Generation V did not get their time to shine, because of the massive amount of Pokémon released in said generation and the short time it lasted (3 years). Starters, Zoroark, Volcarona, Galvantula, Hydreigon and a few popular ones sure, but what about the Basculins, Heatmors, Garbodors, etc etc? Poor things. Now, basically every Pokémon released in Generation VI already got exposure in a way or another and the generation isn't close to end yet. I think that is really cool and much more important than someone else being able to finish the game 10 times always with different teams.

I will tell you what, if Game Freak goes back to releasing 100+ Pokémon in Generation VII, my love for the series will be severely weakened. Even though I think X & Y had a few problems, the fact Game Freak showed they cared about the future of Pokémon (by creating less new Pokémon and the mega evolution feature to fill the "gap") won me over. By releasing 100+ in Generation VII, they will be saying "fuck the future of this franchise, we don't even care anymore". IMO, of course.

 

[Peppermint Phoenix]

Quality is subjective. If I wanted to I could pair every gen 6 Mon with two gen five Pokémon I like more. But like we all know quality is subjective. Thing is quantity isn't there is two ground types. I think you're the one missing a peer's point here. Ifyou don't like Diggersby and you would like a new ground type you're shit out of luck. That's the closest thing to objectivity I see and it doesn't fair well for gen six.

One of the biggest and most consistent draw of a new gen has been new pokemon. It only happens every four years. Plus as a collecter X and Y bored me. On exposure. In the isolated context of the games why does it matter? I can shoot that preference thing back at you. How will 100+ pokemon every four years have consequences? I can assume what negative possisibilities you see but I run the risk of strawman. But for the record I think the one's I assume could be averted easily in my mind. Especially considering just how long "long term" is.


On topic if the games aren't announced at the direct we can assume stuff from there given it's April and the frequency of directs.

 

[Zeb]

Quality is subjective. If I wanted to I could pair every gen 6 Mon with two gen five Pokémon I like more. But like we all know quality is subjective. Thing is quantity isn't there is two ground types. I think you're the one missing a peer's point here. Ifyou don't like Diggersby and you would like a new ground type you're shit out of luck. That's the closest thing to objectivity I see and it doesn't fair well for gen six.

Yeah, sorry, but it's not subjective that they went for quality over quantity in Gen VI. You only have to go look at all the things they introduced, their typings, abilities, movepools and what they are based on to see that. It's not about whether you like them that makes it quality over quantity, it's about how good they are and how unique each one feels as I've said multiple times. Like I said, compare Talonflame and Diggersby to previous early route birds and mammals. Heck, with the exception of Scolipede, Vivillon is better than every previous early Bug too. And it's only worse than Scolipede on the whole because they gave Scolipede Speed Boost in the switch to Gen VI. But Vivillon then has its whole form trading gimmick on top to make it even more different.

So if you can't see what I mean by quality, and think that what I'm meaning is subjective, then that's your problem and not mine. I'm not going to waste time constantly repeat myself, as you're completely missing the point and continuing on your tirade about their only being two Ground types, as if that somehow indicates that they didn't put effort and focus into them. How many there are of each type doesn't matter when what there is is done to a good standard. But you seem to be unable to grasp that point.

 

[Platinum Lucario]

Based on the stuff we've actually heard from interviews and of course the research into the placeholders in OR/AS's coding, we know there's two placeholders left for trading and battling for compatibility with Generation VI games to determine different games. And of course... those placeholders don't mean that it has to be within the same generation either, they're basically values to determine the difference in which version of games are being played. And this is why I say that the next games might not even be within Generation VI, but within Generation VII instead.

Just think, the next games could be in Generation VII and have the capability to trade and battle between players that have Generation VI games. In the same way as Generation II did with Generation I. They don't have to cut-off connection between generations.

And no, it won't be for NX, because Nintendo's next generation hardware won't be announced until 2016 (quite possibly at E3 2016, and possibly released in 2017). It's more likely to be exclusive for New Nintendo 3DS.

And also... every Pokémon can already be caught in X/Y/OR/AS. There's not a single Pokémon (except for event Pokémon) that are missing from being catchable. Which is why it's about time that developers need to introduce new Pokémon into games and create an entire new generation. A Pokémon game that doesn't introduce anything new that can be caught wouldn't even be necessary for a Pokémon game. Junichi Masuda has already stated that he wants to tie the games in "unique ways". Which would mean a new storyline (which doesn't have to be in the Kalos region), elements from X/Y and OR/AS, and something completely different and least expected.

Also, I highly doubt there's going to be any new main Pokémon games released this year, it will be saved for the 20th anniversary. Look at the Hoopa movie in which will star Hoopa and Unbound Hoopa, it looks like that Volcanion will be shown next year in it's own movie. Unless they decide to reveal the new games this month and have Volcanion star in the Hoopa movie as well (which could be possible), but then again... that would mean they wouldn't have a new generation to reveal next year anymore if they revealed it this year. Which would be really awful if they had nothing spectacular to show for the 20th Anniversary. Japan got Diamond Version and Pearl Version for their 10th Anniversary.

Also, just imagine how a Generation VII game could easily fit in the storyline of the Generation VI games. It could be set in between as years ahead of OR/AS's events and 2 years before X/Y's events.

These are my speculations. Am I missing anything that Junichi Masuda has said that have ruled out my theories in this post?

 

[Peppermint Phoenix]

Quality is subjective. If I wanted to I could pair every gen 6 Mon with two gen five Pokémon I like more. But like we all know quality is subjective. Thing is quantity isn't there is two ground types. I think you're the one missing a peer's point here. Ifyou don't like Diggersby and you would like a new ground type you're shit out of luck. That's the closest thing to objectivity I see and it doesn't fair well for gen six.

Yeah, sorry, but it's not subjective that they went for quality over quantity in Gen VI. You only have to go look at all the things they introduced, their typings, abilities, movepools and what they are based on to see that. It's not about whether you like them that makes it quality over quantity, it's about how good they are and how unique each one feels as I've said multiple times. Like I said, compare Talonflame and Diggersby to previous early route birds and mammals. Heck, with the exception of Scolipede, Vivillon is better than every previous early Bug too. And it's only worse than Scolipede on the whole because they gave Scolipede Speed Boost in the switch to Gen VI. But Vivillon then has its whole form trading gimmick on top to make it even more different.

So if you can't see what I mean by quality, and think that what I'm meaning is subjective, then that's your problem and not mine. I'm not going to waste time constantly repeat myself, as you're completely missing the point and continuing on your tirade about their only being two Ground types, as if that somehow indicates that they didn't put effort and focus into them. How many there are of each type doesn't matter when what there is is done to a good standard. But you seem to be unable to grasp that point.

"'Good' and unique" so, you're pro power creep then? Also gen 5 introduced a shit done of unique type combinations, that's quality in my opinion.

 

[Zeb]

"'Good' and unique" so, you're pro power creep then? Also gen 5 introduced a shit done of unique type combinations, that's quality in my opinion.

Moving the goalposts much? Power creep has nothing to do with this; something can be good without being power creep.

Edit: @ below, only just saw your reply. I'm not continuing to debate this because discussing this with you is like banging my head against the wall and it's going nowhere.

 

[Peppermint Phoenix]

So, what you mean is dex is better because there is less weak pokemon? You know that's not a difficult thing to do and weak pokemon exist for a reason...

Moving the goalposts? You're the one who claim that gen 6 had objectively better quality. I was just asking for clarification of something so silly sounding.

EDIT: super classy Zeb. I'm being a total idiot you totally backed that up in an inrefuatable way.

 

[Quetsol Melt]

By releasing 100+ in Generation VII, they will be saying "fuck the future of this franchise, we don't even care anymore". IMO, of course.

I think it seems like a huge exaggeration to say that Game Freak would be giving the franchise a big middle finger if they released 100+ New Pokémon next generation. But to each their own I guess.

Honestly part of me thinks the reason why we had such a low amount of New Pokémon this generation is solely because they had to work on creating 3D models for the other 649 Pokémon plus the 72 New Pokémon from Kalos (plus Forms and the newly introduced Mega Evolution's) as well as the animations for attacks and Pokémon-Amie.

I am hoping since Game Freak will probably keep using these 3D Pokémon models for a while we at least get 100-115 New Pokémon next generation. Its not like I'm asking for an amount of New Pokémon like the amount we got in Generation V.

 

[WallflowerCanyon]

I was hoping(but with low expectations) that we might hear something from Nintendo Direct yesterday, but once again we're blessed cursed with yet another Rumble game. Curses! Those games ain't my cup of tea, I don't mean to offend those of you who like it.

If anything, this may mean we won't be moving onto Gen 7 until next year. Maybe. It's honestly hard to say what's gonna happen this time. While we sit here and try throwing out all these guesses, they may do something that's not even suggested in this here thread.

 

[GaryOak123]

what i would love to see in the future is a new kanto game that isnt a remake or a sequel, the playable character would still be red, bu leaf would feature as a dawn/lyra role. blue would still be the main rival, the player would challenge the gyms and it would still be the original 151, however team rockets story would be different with their aim to create the most powerful pokemon in the world, so the player would try stop them, the player would encounter mewtwo and then mewtwo with the armour and then finally mewtwo with a mega stone, and that would be team rockets story, i would also give the 3 legendary birds more of a storyline like how suicune got in HGSS, mew would also be catchable after the main story was complete, mew would get its own episode sort of thing where the player goes to the pokemon mansion and then follows it round kanto until they finally find it and capture mew, once this was complete oak would call the player and say loads of new pokemon had been discovered and more towns and routes would appear where these pokemon are caught, contests would also be involved through the series with maybe leaf being your rival for contests and blue for battles, once you complete the main story blue and leaf give you an egg which contains the starter they picked, i think other aspects of the story could also be added to such as in lavender town with the pokemon tower or the rivalry between sabrina and the fighting gym, also something i have wanted for years but is unlikely to happen would be fore the pokemon league to be how it is in the anime so you go through stages battling trainers and then meet blue in the final, and if you defeat him you then get to challenge the elite four, it would also be good to see the elite fou have more depth in their story perhaps meeeting them throughout your journey, anyway this would be my next game

 

[Lufenium]

There was a small curiosity from the aftermath of the Direct - all Gen VI main games got an update, stating it was to address bug fixes and improve the game experience. While this isn't surprising as OR/AS only came out 5 month ago, I'm surprised that it was rolled out for X/Y as well, especially considering how Game Freak shunned X/Y in terms of a compatibility update when OR/AS were released.

 

[BlackButterfree]

Re: A new Pokemon game idea

They're running out of ideas

Or they're giving us less new Pokemon so we don't hit 1000+ mons so quickly.

It's pretty obvious that it's in their interests to not introduce huge amounts of Pokemon every gen, because it means they can drag the franchise out longer and make more money in the long run (there is going to become a point where too many Pokemon actually means too many Pokemon). Just because they aren't throwing new Pokemon at us in ridiculous numbers doesn't mean they are running out of ideas.

And as I've said in other threads, Mega Pokemon themselves are basically new Pokemon but don't increase the Pokedex number which somewhat reaffirms this theory. They can add Megas as substitutes for evolutions while keeping the interest in new "evolutions" and concepts for each line. And if you combine the Megas with the new Pokemon we hit a fairly good amount of new Pokemon/forms.

They're taking it easy because they don't want to hit massive numbers so soon and have the franchise burn itself out imo. And come on, there's loads of ideas they haven't done yet, how can they possibly be running out of ideas....

If you count the 72 new Pokémon and add the 48 Mega Evolutions, the 2 Primal Reversions and the 50 Forme Differences, then we got 172 Pokémon. 174 if you count the female Pyroar and Meowstic as different Pokémon.

In comparison, Kanto introduced 151 Pokémon, Johto introduced 125 (25 are Unown forms), Hoenn introduced 143 (8 were the forms of Castform, Deoxys and the "?" and "!" forms of Unown), Sinnoh introduced 139 (32 of these were the forms of Arceus, Burmy, Wormadam, Cherrim, Shellos, Gastrodon, Rotom, Giratina and Shaymin, as well as the gender differences of Hippopotas and Hippowdon, which look like completely different Pokémon), and lastly, Unova introduced 178 (22 are the forms/genders of Unfezant, Basculin, Darmanitan, Deerling, Sawsbuck, Frillish, Jellicent, Tornadus, Thundurus, Landorus, Kyurem, Keldeo, Meloetta and Genesect).

TL;DR

Kanto: 151
Johto: 125
Hoenn: 143
Sinnoh: 139
Unova: 178
Kalos: 174

Kalos actually introduced the second-most Pokémon out of all generations. So they're hardly out of ideas lol And the next Generation will definitely throw us over the 1,000 mark. This all adds up to 910 Pokémon.

 

[Arceus the Dragon]

Mega evolutions, form changes/differences and primals don't count as new pokemon. And just because there is the 20th anniversary coming up, it doesn't mean a Kanto remake or a whole new kanto game is being made. We are done with Kanto, deal with it. We either getting games with Zygarde as mascot or we getting Gen 7. But I am now leaning towards Gen 7.