Mafia Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Mafia - Endgame (Looking Stupid Joker!)

[Isaac the Investigator]

Well, gotta update a game now, so I'll be back in a few.

 

[Isaac the Investigator]

FA kill does point to NP though, but that may be the plan if DW is bad

 

[Isaac the Investigator]

I'm town

vote: DawningWind

You're still online, please claim. The longer you wait to do this, the scummier you'll look.

 

[Isaac the Investigator]

Vote: neopest
I am hardclaiming cop. I have a scum check on neopest.

Although this is something that can be CC'd, I wonder if scum would really risk it

 

[Isaac the Investigator]

DW can't be an independent, so I'm not sure what else they could be - though I'll wait on Kai, Caps, RJ, and HD for a potential CC

 

[Isaac the Investigator]

Since NP ain't claimin', VOTE: neopest

Come on. At least be better than Slankmaster.

 

[DawningWinds]

DW can't be an independent, so I'm not sure what else they could be

Exactly what I said I am, mayhaps?

And as you pointed out this would be really flipping risky if I'm scum.
Especially since I posted, like, a minute after the update. There's usually a cop, and the fact that it's essentially MyLo (not technically the game'll still continue but if you side with scum we don't really have a way out after a mislynch today) means that said cop would probably be claiming regardless right around now because any information they have could be vital, so a smart scum trying this at least woulda waited for everyone to post to see if that happened and at least somewhat mitigated the risk of a CC, especially since I have my online status off so it's not like people would know I was lurking. There's not much reason for me to do this right away unless a. I'm telling the truth or b. I didn't think things through at all and probably didn't check my plan with my scumbuddy.

Name claiming will be confirmed at a later date.

Was the ruling on this ever confirmed? I don't remember seeing this.

 

[HumanDawn]

RIP FA… sorry for doubting you so long…! (but i came around to it!!)

Vote: Neopest

I believe DawningWinds is Town, so I’m okay going with this. Any cc’s still welcome. Hyper majority isn’t in effect btw.

leetic! being Independent I can believe. Another player I’m happy to safely cut off the list of being non-scum (unless this is a mega plan to indirectly tell the Independent that they are Mafia and let them take the credit, but if so then it was definitely pre-planned)

 

[Kaiveran]

Fell asleep as soon as I got home but I woke up hungry so here I am! Finally, something juicy.

explicitly not CCing DW in case its necessary

Was the ruling on [name claiming] ever confirmed? I don't remember seeing this.

I'd hold off on it for now, especially since everyone has unique names and it can easily break the game.

In fact, while I would normally advocate mass claim in this context, I don't think it's productive without a claim from neo first. since there's no insta, I'm perfectly fine threatening her with death in the meantime.

vote: neopest

 

[Elementar]

There is no name claiming.

I confirmed this in a PM but forgot to confirm in the rules, my apologies.

 

[Reiji]

So I'll go ahead and Vote: Neopest in light of no CC at this point, subject to change and concerns highlighted below.

Vote: neopest
I am hardclaiming cop. I have a scum check on neopest.

Thank you for the claim, this currently has no CC and after the vehement defence yesterday it's looking like a strong claim. There is just one thing though...

VOTE: neopest

Might as well spill the beans. Sorry, guys, I lied to y'all. I am the independent. I can win with either faction, so it would be wise for you to cooperate with me.

For this to follow up after... can I ask the reasoning you've decided to claim? Elaboration I guess, I feel this is an odd claim AND an odd point to do so I think for an Indepedent.

I'm not, but okay, prove I'm lying. Just saying "DW's lying" probably isn't super convincing to anyone.


Fullclaim please.

So I THINK the leetic claim is Survivor? Unsure.

Of course, if you were paying close attention to my earlier posts it wouldn't come as a surprise


It may seem out of nowhere for me to post a gif of Indiana Jones, but consider his nickname "Indy". I was softclaiming as an Indie.

Voting off the island is a reference to Survivor. I was softclaiming my wincon as survivor.

So, I always handle Survivor claims like this because I feel they are an easy way to guarantee survival, because Town will decide to not care about the player as they're not an immediate threat. I am unsure on the timing of the claim and the role itself. I don't like this claim and how you've managed to line it up so nicely, but I also don't know meta to be able to decide whether this is normal behaviour from you or not. Am I willing to currently risk the MyLo etc. on it? Not right now, but I'm keeping an eye on you.

DW can't be an independent, so I'm not sure what else they could be - though I'll wait on Kai, Caps, RJ, and HD for a potential CC

I mean... well done on figuring out that via your Indepedent claim that DW isn't also an Independent? What is the point of this post.

Fell asleep as soon as I got home but I woke up hungry so here I am! Finally, something juicy.

explicitly not CCing DW in case its necessary


I'd hold off on it for now, especially since everyone has unique names and it can easily break the game.

In fact, while I would normally advocate mass claim in this context, I don't think it's productive without a claim from neo first. since there's no insta, I'm perfectly fine threatening her with death in the meantime.

vote: neopest

Hi can I have that read on me I've been promised and now don't have :'(. Also, what do you mean by not CCing unless necessary?

 

[Reiji]

Just realised I didn't clarify my first part of the post.

Yes the Cop claim looks strong but I am also wary of leetic's claim full stop but I am also wary about how these were both posted, so just keeping in the back of my mind the interaction between DW's and leetic's claims, in case a CC does arrive.

 

[TheCapsFan]

[VOTE]: Neopest

I'll address the questions directed at me later, but I was planning on going this route after yesterday anyway, so this is good.

I am always wary of 3Ps - leetic claiming independent right after the cop outed with a redcheck does not look good IMO.

 

[HumanDawn]

ok so that’s everyone

no cop cc

no indep cc

might as well go over the thread now with a scum!neopest mind

also certain people have ignored me as of late

 

[Isaac the Investigator]

am always wary of 3Ps - leetic claiming independent right after the cop outed with a redcheck does not look good IMO.

What would I have to gain by fakeclaiming here, especially with faking a soft D1?

For this to follow up after... can I ask the reasoning you've decided to claim? Elaboration I guess, I feel this is an odd claim AND an odd point to do so I think for an Indepedent.

How is it odd when 1 and only 1 independent is known to exist in this game? Besides, the town's situation should be dire enough that you should realize you have to cooperate with me to win, scum is a far bigger threat to you.

 

[Isaac the Investigator]

Just realised I didn't clarify my first part of the post.

Yes the Cop claim looks strong but I am also wary of leetic's claim full stop but I am also wary about how these were both posted, so just keeping in the back of my mind the interaction between DW's and leetic's claims, in case a CC does arrive.

A CC has not arrived, so what about that?

 

[Isaac the Investigator]

I don't like this claim and how you've managed to line it up so nicely

Why would lining it up so nicely look bad?

 

[HumanDawn]

I don't hate the motivation behind these posts even though I don't really agree with the practice. I think it's much more beneficial to pressure people who are actually here and playing the game, but I do understand the line of thought here.

Also would be hilarious if Caps/HD are the team.

The only reason I have to suspect this is that HD's suspicion on Caps doesn't really make sense to me in an almost TMI way from how he's been discussing it, so yeah don't mind me... just gonna be tinfoiling over here in my corner.

Agreed with your thoughts on Reiji.

I disagree with your read on leetic being so "obvious." I think leetic is being aggressive because they have experience with lots of inactivity on this site, which is more NAI. I think their initiative was towny initially, but since has worn off a little bit, as I have said above.

I would overall agree with your read on DawningWinds.


This feels...weird to me. Voting before the game starts doesn't give any indication of activity in the game itself, and I don't understand why you're putting so much emphasis on people not paying attention to a post that doesn't even count...

Also while I'm currently entertaining and exploring a HD/Caps team (I have some reason to believe this is plausible) I have reason to believe that there is a potential scum laying low. The reasoning behind this is that at times the thread has been quite volatile with arguments going back and forth for sometimes multiple posts/pages about the same topic but they seem largely confined between two people with others chiming in but not really committing to reads on these particular issues. To me that suggests that there is a very, very good possibility that scum is hanging back and letting us implode and that a lot of these arguments could be T/T.

Following this train of thought, it actually is a point in favor of HD being town.

With that being said, my most likely "targets" that fit that description would probably be SM, Kaiveran, and FinalArcadia. I'm actually feeling a bit better about DawningWind now that I've seen their reads posts mostly because the progression looks good in a way that basically boils down to: "scum often feel pressured to make reads in order to blend in but DawningWind refused to do that for multiple pages and then actually outed their own reads list on their own time and the reads list sounded decent/natural."

I'm here and reading but I'm quite distracted so my thoughts might not be as expanded on as they could be, but for Kai and FA in particular I've felt like they've lacked a certain kind of conviction behind their reads, but even more notable is the fact that I feel out of all the players in the games they have engaged in the "drama" the least and have had the least amount of commentary on it.

CHUNK CHUNK CHUNK O'TEXT, sorry folks but I think other than Kai who's going into a separate post, I have mostly caught up now.

Spoiler: neopest

With regards to Kai, I 100% agree. With FA, I 100% do not at the time of this post. If anything sticking your oar out and reading the game as FA has is definitely getting into the drama, just because they're not challenging/confronting others involved doesn't mean they're not part of it. Otherwise, it puts you I think in a similar at this point to them. Kai however I feel, as much as ey are a bit behind in the game, is definitely lacking that conviction in eir content.



A stance I generally agree on with scum (as I already mentioned to leetic), scum rn don't really want to be intercepting TOO hard lest it's just caught up during the next day phase. An interesting take on the HD/Caps situation and I think has kinda nailed what concerns I had about it - Caps especially IDK dealt with that in a way I didn't overly expect, but well it's worked as the votes currently don't lie with him.



Note Neo's change in attitude on their return as of this post ^. My thoughts however:

More challenge, yay! This is a concise yet strong post and I feel that this isn't a challenge against someone leading conversation like leetic done out of fear or anything, just that Neo is wanting to set things straight and I like that. The explanation makes sense (and tbh I agree that leetic I think is throwing around the word "hedgy" a lot in very different situations, almost like a buzzword) and I feel this would be an odd person and challenge for scum to make at this point in the game? This definitely bumps Neo up the town list for me.



As someone in the same situation as you, totally get it. Like I said earlier, I feel that you were both at a similar point during that phase of the game you were both interacting with the "drama" at a similar level, so I do find FA's response regarding this a little weird (more on that later), but I again have to disagree that FA has been lacking in content or pushes for that matter. BUUUUUT I do have to agree that some of the posts they deem as not game related simply aren't.

There is definitely an OMGUS tint to your reasonings behind the FA vote so I think perhaps things have been blown out of proportion a bit, but I can understand and appreciate why you have done so.

For the sake of me not having to delve into the past posts even more and try to draw this, what similarities? Also using last game meta kinda eh imo, because well, players can change. I do like here though that you did ask for a follow-up, no chance for escape!


I have got a bit more but I need to pop out for a bit now, so it will have to wait.

I just don't post a lot in general tbh. I artificially try to keep my post count low and I'm comfortable as is. Caps, I did directly scumread you earlier. I said your reads felt unnatural and that your entrance into the thread did not vibe with the way a villager would imagine. I said at first that HumanDawn's voting at the time did not match what he was posting or how he seemed to feel about Caps. I think this on its own is a scumtell, but could also indicate a HD/Caps wolf team.

I will say there seems to be a fair amount of tilt going on; I think it's good to remember that MafiaWolf is essentially a role playing game, and everything is BS to some extent. So like, chill out?

Not sure I can respond much to thoughts on me before my previous post, because there's not much to go on at that point, but I dislike the general shallow engagement and meandering HD seems to show in his posts. Even when they try to go into "detail", look at a post like 178 and try not to go cross-eyed reading it.

Getting some similar vibes from DW later on. Liking Caps a bit more.

@DawningWinds re: 210; by "Survivor-like" I mean any 3P role that has to stay alive (at least for a while) in order to have any shot at winning, and is truly neutral (i.e doesn't steal victory from anyone else by winning). It certainly doesn't mean that they can't have detrimental or even lethal effects, and given your take on it I wouldn't be surprised if other players targeting the Piranha Plant might be in danger.

p11 seeing towniness from Reiji and neo

p12 I don't think DW called out leetic for what she's picking on Reiji for, so it seems a bit opportunistic.

@FinalArcadia re: 221, I don't necessarily feel your purported content ratio is accurate, but I am known to setup spec quite a bit. In fact I reined myself in this game until leetic started making specific points about the 3P, because without much specifics to go off I didn't think it'd be too useful.

@neopest re:235, I don't like getting into the dirt and directly scrapping with people, usually. Sure, it can be fun and/or illuminating in the right contexts, but it's usually not very useful to me specifically, and on D1 I'd prefer cooler heads to prevail lest too much wolf-hiding dust get kicked up

oh shit it's time to go already fuck I'm so slow

Running Readsbook
leetic/neo/Reiji town
Caps/Soul/FA null
DW/HD scum

Quick response because I'm reading over the beginning of the NP stuff now

NP vs FA: I was putting them in the same ~vibe~ as Kaiveran, where they were staying relatively under the radar, but providing genuine posts and reactions when they are around. I liked what Neo had to say about at least one scum staying away from the drama, but I thought FA had a good response when she called out Neo for doing the same, yet not putting themselves in that category. I forget Neo's response to that. I thought FA's ISO on NP was convincing and even added a bit to it myself.

NP's treatment of SM: I am just reading that now on page 20, and I think it's a little lacking. Looks like she kind of just shrugged it off when you asked her about his unprompted townread. I agreed with the post where you said there's more to say about SM than just including him in the PoE when necessary.

@Reiji That first post you quoted was when my thought process regarding SM's content began to change. After going through his reads individually my opinion on him has changed quite a bit.

Back to backreading

Well, then this will play more into your suspicions:

[VOTE]: Soulmaster

Lucky enough I had the pick of the three players I was thinking of voting by the end of the day today to break the tie between them. I'm voting Soulmaster for all the reasons I've been saying for the past few pages, and also because the other two I think we get more information out of based on Soulmaster's flip.

Kai's recent posts have produced a lot of unique reads that I don't think scum would need to make. I want them to have the opportunity to go through the thread further in more detail and catch up during the night so we can hear their full thoughts. I'm still not sold on this slot and it seems like they've expressed that they don't really want to push Soulmaster, so I think they could be a possible partner to Soulmaster if he flips scum.

Neo is the more interesting case than Kai in my opinion, and reads more scum to me than Kai. I think FA has brought up some good points against them, and I think their reluctance to discuss Soulmaster in more detail is odd. However, again, I think that we get more information on their alignment depending on Soulmaster's, so I'd rather convict the latter first.

@neopest While I have you here, would you mind going into a bit more detail as to why you think I have the most wolf-motivation on the Soulmaster lynch?

Gotta go eat, will be back.

@TheCapsFan

The reason I'd think you have the most wolf motivation to go after SM is that compared to most other people on the SM wagon I feel as though you are the person who has put forth the least amount of effort and visibility in pushing them. I think wolves being aggressively pushing someone is not out of the question, but if SM is town then I would say that wolves probably are trying to be a bit more considerate in pushing there and maintaining a more positive image which I think lines up more closely with how you've treated your suspicion on SM veruses someone like leetic for example.

Also while I'm here @Reiji

I find your interpretation of me and FA going at each other a bit odd. The way you've phrased the read is that we could be wolf OR independent versus town. Do you not agree that a wolf would play differently from an independent? Personally I believe an independent would fall more towards playing in a town mindset than a wolf. Just wondering what lead you to that conclusion.

I can't say anything specifically (i.e. grab posts) off the top of my head, but I think sometimes saying so much to people can do the following:

• Give them several means of just replying to you rather than saying anything new
• In turn, not allowing themselves much opportunity to open up naturally and therefore reveal any holes in logic etc, as they're just countering your points

Taking Caps as an example, I feel that after you stopped pressuring him so much, he's now had to say and do a few things which has started being flagged by players as odd.



Do I agree that Wolf and Independent would play differently? No. Do I agree they COULD? Yes. Using "personally" kinda shows the main reason why as much as your point is valid, so is mine.

Essentially - right now I find your responses to be a bit more, er, aggressive in reaction (especially to FA) whereas FA has not been the same towards you. Right now therefore yes, I think FA is the more Town out of you two but based on the above sentence this could easily flip around to a Wolf/Independent (FA) that has been currently playing Town (you in this case) for a fool and got you killed.

The only reason I have you down as the not-Town person right now, is because based on FA's responses versus yours, I believe the latter scenario is less likely.

Problems are multiplying and I’m stuck in a very distraction rich environment so not going to be up to standard probebly

leetic

The top poster by a long shot, this one will take me all day to go through in detail, so allow me to be very general.

Sure, a lot of high-octane power wolves can spam and shit up the thread, dress it up with a veneer of analysis, and force control of a game by being the most persistent/annoying presence. But that’s not what it looks like leetic is doing. Sometimes there’s a lack of focus there, but at the point in the game where most of this takes place, I actually consider that more town, because it suggests his play is aimed at generating as much info as possible (and not rooted in pushing a specific agenda or person.) If he does home in on a single player, or a narrow set of issues, it’s usually not for too long. I’d like to think that leetic being town is fairly uncontroversial at this point, but if you still have doubts, here’s my take on it in a nutshell.

About the only tinfoil I had on him was perhaps 3P Lyncher, since the shift to going hard on neopest felt a little unnatural and looked like leetic digging for reasons to keep on the attack instead of actually pathing out a logical scum!neo case. But considering neopest was doing kinda the same thing, I think I stand by my earlier assessment of this as a heated TvT.

tl;dr I was pretty solid on town!leetic before and nothing is really changing my mind on review.

————————

neopest

Off the bat, neo displays a penchant for brevity and a blunt, nonchalant approach. As I hope we’ve learned WRT Soulmaster, these are not necessarily scummy traits.

I don’t see any glaring gaps in her engagement (i.e near silence on any particular player or event) and she’s been capable of ramping up efforts when she needs to. Combined with my judgement of the leetic spat above, I’d put her in my town pile as well…normally I’d say with a bit less confidence, but considering the EoD I’ve just lived through, and the fact that nothing brought up against her really convinced me of scum…nah

————————

HumanDawn

This iso grabs me right away for #95…dare I tinfoil that Soulmaster was being set up as the designated ML from the beginning?

Upon further investigation…maybe, but not too sure that HD was in on the plan.

Sure there’s some weird defensiveness around the Caps vote, and a lot of hedgy posts scattered around, some instances of IIoA, but none of it seems directed in a way I would expect of scum. It could easily be explained away by having a more cautious style and not having much to latch on to.

Null read here

————————

TheCapsFan

The combativeness early on does strike me as a bit odd, but it doesn’t seem like it gets in the way of productive posting, at least early on. Again, a terse, blunt style isn’t AI.

Something does stick out to me here though, I’ve searched through it all and neopest doesn’t seem to be mentioned until the latest ISO page, where she’s suddenly a top vote option. Sure an earlier bit might be hidden behind the cutoffs, but as of now it just doesn’t sit right with me how neo just seems to appear there only to be discarded for the most popular wagon.

Slight scumlean

————————

DawningWinds

Well, now that I’ve learned the term CWAC, I think it applies to a lot of DW’s posts.

I’ve looked at them in summary and it’s rare to find one that’s actually straightforwardly saying something about another player. It’s a whole lot of scattershot “well this, but maybe also this?” And while their engagement is pretty broad, it’s not very hard to do when, again, you’re not actually pushing

————————

Aaaand I’ll have to come back later for FA/Reiji

 

[Reiji]

A CC has not arrived, so what about that?

Then I can just eliminate two players from the pool and go from there, not rocket science really.

HD
Caps
Kai

Out of the three above, I think I'd have to currently put Kai down as the scum partner here to Neo (based on Neo flipping scum of course). Eir responses compared to Caps and HD have been weak across the board, even posts where ey are catching up there's like... over half the important parts of the game missing? Also since I voted for you, you seem to be somewhat avoiding me specifically Kai which is a bit odd. Sure I've had a response but as of yet I've still to receive anything else.

Pair this with Neo pitting together HD and Caps as a scumteam, questioning me putting her as the non-Town between her and FA (who then dies and flips Town), along with Kai defending Neo and still somewhat laying low/trying to play neutral it is hard to think Kai/Neo is less believable a pair as HD/Neo or Caps/Neo.

 

[Reiji]

@HumanDawn for the sake of not quoting that huge wall and looking messy - what currently is happening with #638? Is that just a dump for you to go through/add to later?