The Zygarde forms (now with video footage!)

[IncineROAR]

I kind of decided once again I could really care less about Zygarde.

 

[King Robert]

I thought the Zygarde I caught in Y was its "complete" form.

 

[Esserise]

Kyurem only has two forms, both of which it achieves through fusion with another dragon.

Zygarde literally uses cells to change forms, Kyurem does not.

From that alone, the Zygarde/Cell comparison makes more sense than Cell/Kyurem comparison. And yes, I realize this discussion is essentially pointless, but I just felt like giving my two cents.

Any similarities between Zygarde and Cell are superficialities (i.e. being green, using the terms "cell" and "perfect"). Their functions aren't really similar in any meaningful way.

As The Outrage explained, Kyurem seeks to absorb the Tao dragons in order to complete itself. Cell seeks to absorb the two androids in order to complete itself. Functionally, they are similar. Though neither Zygarde nor Kyurem are, as far as we know, able to regenerate From A Single Cell.

I thought the Zygarde I caught in Y was its "complete" form.

No, it was explained back when the Zygarde Formes were revealed that the serpentine Zygarde that we see in XY/ORAS is composed of only 50% of its component cells.

 

[Ice Tyrant]

Zygarde-Gundam form looks like it'll break Ubers in Smogon's laddering system.
Zygarde-Doge looks cute, probably will be in RU or UU.

Not unless Zygarde 10% has an alternate ability. It's straight to Ubers for the entire Pokemon since from what I'm seeing this is basically not just Darmanitan-Z done right, but also being absolutely broken about it. Did nobody mention the drastic HP increase Zygarde 10% to Complete Forme goes through IN-BATTLE?

 

[The Outrage]

Posted from Smogon:

So there's been a lot of speculation on the base HP of Zygarde formes, based on my calculations using smogon's own damage calc (and adjusting the base HP to fiddle around):

10% forme has 125 max HP at level 50, so it has between 50 and 65 base HP depending on IVs (assuming no EV investment). If full (252 EVs) investment, it's between 18 and 34 base HP.

Complete forme has 287 max hp, so it has between 212 and 227 base HP. If full investment, it's between 180 and 196 base HP.


Personally, I think 10% forme will have 54 base HP, and complete forme will have 216 base HP. Why? Because 54*2=216/2=108, which is the base HP of 50% forme (the one currently released). This means the zygarde shown has 22 IVs and 0 EVs investment (and this checks out with what the calc gives!)

I doubt 10%'s base HP is 18-34, so we're going to have one monster of a Zygarde.

EDIT:

Apparently the damage that was done to 10% was subtracted from Complete Zygarde's full HP--so it didn't "heal" damage so much as gain the ability to take more hits.

Will Zygarde faint if you do more damage and force it to transform back?

And with regards to Zygarde Core, we now have Dex Rotom, who is likely to be a Pokemon that can't battle, so even Zygarde Core could be in the games.

 

[EmpoleonProd]

There's a theory that Ash-Greninja is just the effect of the ability Torrent on the Greninja, what if Torrent, Blaze, and Overgrow get similar abilities to power-up and regenerate the Pokemon with those abilities? That would be interesting. If this is in the games I have to imagine they'll find a way to put in Ash-Greninja in a reasonable manner.

 

[The Outrage]

There's a theory that Ash-Greninja is just the effect of the ability Torrent on the Greninja, what if Torrent, Blaze, and Overgrow get similar abilities to power-up and regenerate the Pokemon with those abilities? That would be interesting. If this is in the games I have to imagine they'll find a way to put in Ash-Greninja in a reasonable manner.

That's a pretty bad theory since we've seen the anime handle those abilities before. If they're going to change how they function so much in-game, just make it a new ability/mechanic.

 

[Tensho]

First, anyone noticed that all the dummy Pokémon that had been used in all these trailers are Pokemon with Mega.

Second, it just came to me. What if Aura Break is actually Zygarde Complete ability and 10% and 50% have Swarm Change instead. The reason I'm saying this is because Pokemon Tretta showed 50% transform into Complete with the same animation. Also, the lore on Complete says that it can overpower Xerneas and Yveltal (hence Aura Break).

Also speculating that 10% and 50% can be switched at will via key item outside battle. Both would have same BST but 10% lean toward offense and speed while 50% is more bulk and balance as we had known. Both can transform into Complete in battle via Swarm Change.

 

[ToddMann10000]

So, New Theory (Or at least, one i havent heard of yet).

Sun gets Episode Z for all the people who want that.
Moon gets Episode Eclipse (or whatever) for gen 7s third legendary.
Version Exclusive post game, anyone?

 

[ToddMann10000]

This plays right into the theory that we will revisit Kalos. Unless they can somehow explain how Zygarde arrived in Alola and why it even came there in the first place.

Hoopa. Smart move by GFreak, basically dump any pokemon, anywhere they like.

 

[Tensho]

So, New Theory (Or at least, one i havent heard of yet).

Sun gets Episode Z for all the people who want that.
Moon gets Episode Eclipse (or whatever) for gen 7s third legendary.
Version Exclusive post game, anyone?

OMG, why does this theory remind me of that scene in Dumb and Dumber, "so you are saying there's a chance that you like me." Again, I apologize in advance if I offense someone, but I just have to get it out. Phew.

 

[Kirby4ever]

So, New Theory (Or at least, one i havent heard of yet).

Sun gets Episode Z for all the people who want that.
Moon gets Episode Eclipse (or whatever) for gen 7s third legendary.
Version Exclusive post game, anyone?

I'm not sure how that is going to work. People would complain that GameFreak only wanted to put Zygarde's story into one game and put the third legendary and Sun and Moon's post game in the other. Not everyone can afford to buy two games at once, and ones that didn't get the game that has the third legendary Pokemon for some reason will never have a complete Pokedex and a shiny charm because the Pokemon is missing from the game they have. It would be a mess.

 

[ToddMann10000]

OMG, why does this theory remind me of that scene in Dumb and Dumber, "so you are saying there's a chance that you like me." Again, I apologize in advance if I offense someone, but I just have to get it out. Phew.

Wow. Why does Everyone i know think i look/act/sound like Jim Carrey? I mean, i like the guy, but it gets weird when people ive never met think im like him... (Short answer, not offended. )

I'm not sure how that is going to work. People would complain that GameFreak only wanted to put Zygarde's story into one game and put the third legendary and Sun and Moon's post game in the other. Not everyone can afford to buy two games at once, and ones that didn't get the game that has the third legendary Pokemon for some reason will never have a complete Pokedex and a shiny charm because the Pokemon is missing from the game they have. It would be a mess.

Same as it currently works.
Episode Z has story followed by Zygarde available for capture. 3rd Legendary sits in a cave.
Episode Eclipse has story followed by 3rd Legendary available for capture. Zygarde sits in a cave.

Hell, they could just do a "double" battle, like Delta Emerald with Rayquaza and Deoxys. just switch the order that Z/3 appear.

 

[Almonds]

I'm satisfied with the Zygarde forms being in Gen7. Good thing that they weren't anime-exclusive.

I wonder what's going to happen to Ash-Greninja though.

EDIT: and no seriously no please no version exclusive post-game stories. That is just plain cruel.

 

[EmpoleonProd]

That's a pretty bad theory since we've seen the anime handle those abilities before. If they're going to change how they function so much in-game, just make it a new ability/mechanic.

Ah but you see, there's more to the theory than that. The explanation for the theory is that, like mega evolution, for the Pokemon to take on this new form, a strong bond must be accomplished, in the case of Ash's Sceptile and Infernape, many speculate the bond simply wasn't at its max vs. his Greninja where it was. So there's your explanation.

 

[Tensho]

And with regards to Zygarde Core, we now have Dex Rotom, who is likely to be a Pokemon that can't battle, so even Zygarde Core could be in the games.

Who know, maybe when Zygarde is not in battle, it will be a core like Xerneas Neutral Mode.

 

[Fairy Type Arceus]

Easy enough to counter, fake out to break the focus sash, then ice beam 10% to death

 

[Kirby4ever]

Easy enough to counter, fake out to break the focus sash, then ice beam 10% to death

If 10% survives the ice beam enough or barely and turns into complete form, then you'll have to continue to ice beam Zygarde to death.

 

[Silktree]

If 10% survives the ice beam enough or barely

That is hardly likely. We're dealing with a double weakness here, and even 50% Forme has an average Special Defense.

 

[Kirby4ever]

That is hardly likely. We're dealing with a double weakness here, and even 50% Forme has an average Special Defense.

Unless the ice beam user loses some special attack stats. I had seen Zygarde 50% and Gliscor survive an ice beam after Sableye snarled on the ice beam user one or more times.