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Anime & Manga General Discussion

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Ash losing to Alain was certainly a terrible decision and I'm not arguing this with anyone. It made no sense for him to lose and he absolutely didn't need to lose in order for the Team Flare arc to progress. I'm so sick of people on Reddit spouting off that bs. It was not an embarrassing loss at all though. An embarrassing loss is Pikachu losing to a level 5 Snivy. Not Ash losing to Alain.
 
The Snivy stuff is quite frankly old hat.

You want a REAL embarrassing loss that makes that makes Ash's other losses look like a work of art?

Cameron in the league. He's right there pickin' his nose, thinking a TV remote is a Pokeball and struggling to figure out what a Jigglypuff looks like from above.

I mean granted Ash didn't deserve to win the Unova league but still...
 
RetroPokeFan said:
The Snivy stuff is quite frankly old hat.

You want a REAL embarrassing loss that makes that makes Ash's other losses look like a work of art?

Cameron in the league. He's right there pickin' his nose, thinking a TV remote is a Pokeball and struggling to figure out what a Jigglypuff looks like from above.

I mean granted Ash didn't deserve to win the Unova league but still...
Click to expand...
Not to mention the fact that he thought that you only needed seven badges to enter the League and he also deliberately handicapped himself in that match by only bringing 5 Pokemon to face Ash's 6. He only won because his Riolu evolved into Lucario in a full on deus ex machina. This was a severe downgrade from Sinnoh, where Ash was so strong that the only one who could beat him was a guy packing a full team of Legendaries.
 
RetroPokeFan said:
The Snivy stuff is quite frankly old hat.

You want a REAL embarrassing loss that makes that makes Ash's other losses look like a work of art?

Cameron in the league. He's right there pickin' his nose, thinking a TV remote is a Pokeball and struggling to figure out what a Jigglypuff looks like from above.

I mean granted Ash didn't deserve to win the Unova league but still...
Click to expand...
RileyXY1 said:
Not to mention the fact that he thought that you only needed seven badges to enter the League and he also deliberately handicapped himself in that match by only bringing 5 Pokemon to face Ash's 6. He only won because his Riolu evolved into Lucario in a full on deus ex machina. This was a severe downgrade from Sinnoh, where Ash was so strong that the only one who could beat him was a guy packing a full team of Legendaries.
Click to expand...
Ash's loss to Cameron will always be one of my least favorite moments in the anime. In addition to everything you two said, it's not a good lesson for kids. He's like "Nah, I'll manage," despite the clear disadvantage he's in. And then he does. He's basically like season 1 Ash: winning through luck instead of skill. He didn't deserve to win that way, especially with a Riolu that beat opponents it had no business of being a match for (most notably perhaps Unfezant).

Another embarrassing BW loss that gets overlooked because of the Snivy loss is Ash losing to Cress. With Trip, you can try to say that Pikachu wasn't at full power. But the Striaton Gym is an absolute travesty. Ash wins the two matchups that he chose a poor Pokémon against, and loses the one where he actually made a smart choice type wise. Ash's reward for thinking well was his fully powered, unhampered Pikachu losing to a Panpour. When he had just a few months earlier in real life time tied with a Latios.
 
FinnishPokéFan92 said:
In addition to everything you two said, it's not a good lesson for kids. He's like "Nah, I'll manage," despite the clear disadvantage he's in. And then he does. He's basically like season 1 Ash: winning through luck instead of skill. He didn't deserve to win that way, especially with a Riolu that beat opponents it had no business of being a match for (most notably perhaps Unfezant).
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I've said this once or twice or more, but Ash tends to get punished much more harshly for his faults than pretty much anyone who isn't actively a villain, which I suspect results in mixed messaging that hamper it's ability to really teach lessons to young audiences.

Though I'm not sure the series is trying to teach so much as kids shows (and let us be honest a surprising number of adult ones) have certain generic morals they always need to include.
 
A Wild Luxray said:
The whole Ash vs. Cameron was full of terrible decisions on both sides honestly, but the thing that makes it the worst is Cameron only bringing 5 Pokemon because of his own stupidity.
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And him winning despite that idiotic blunder. A guy who sends out a Grass/Steel type against a Fire/Fighting type and a Water/Flying type against an Electric type and brinngs five Pokémon to a Full Battle has no right to defeat someone like Ash. Compared to Cameron, even BW Ash was a genius.
 
FinnishPokéFan92 said:
And him winning despite that idiotic blunder. A guy who sends out a Grass/Steel type against a Fire/Fighting type and a Water/Flying type against an Electric type and brinngs five Pokémon to a Full Battle has no right to defeat someone like Ash. Compared to Cameron, even BW Ash was a genius.
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Japan apparently loved Cameron, though. I guess they found it hilarious that he won despite being an absolute moron. I think they like buffoons, especially ones that are opponents of some sort to Ash. It is why the TRio quickly reverted to being loveable clowns after spending all of BW being sinister and serious.
 
Adelon said:
Japan apparently loved Cameron, though. I guess they found it hilarious that he won despite being an absolute moron. I think they like buffoons, especially ones that are opponents of some sort to Ash. It is why the TRio quickly reverted to being loveable clowns after spending all of BW being sinister and serious.
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Well, no offense to Japan, but they sure do have a weird sense of humor.
 
Rainbow-Rain said:
Cameron is basically a Pokemon version of Naruto Uzumaki (the OG not Shippuden) so it's not too surprising that Japan loved him
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That feels like an insult to Naruto. He was the lovable kind of idiot who balanced it out with his abili to encourage others and inspirational story. Cameron has none of that and is just an ass clown who would fall under the too dumb to live trope.
 
Kurolegacy said:
That feels like an insult to Naruto. He was the lovable kind of idiot who balanced it out with his abili to encourage others and inspirational story. Cameron has none of that and is just an ass clown who would fall under the too dumb to live trope.
Click to expand...
Okay then Cameron is the Pokemon version of Boruto Uzumaki
 
FinnishPokéFan92 said:
Does this count as a SV spoiler, since that Pokémon wasn't officially revealed before release?
Click to expand...
It does. Please do not talk about unannounced Pokemon outside of the Scarlet/Violet section. We have a rule about this both as a sticky for this section, as well as a huge announcement when you first log into the site.
 
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