Ash Or A New Guy?

[Ranger Jack Walker]

They already told a cohesive story with new characters. May and Dawn being perfect examples. They proved that they don't just rely on already established characters and that they are perfectly capable of creating new and interesting characters. All thats left is making them the main charcter and removing the previous one.

 

[Red]

I love a strong female character. Hell, I think it would be awesome if Pokemon had a strong female star, but May and Dawn, I personally didn't connect with either. May I found just annoying. And Dawn lost me in the first episode, a character's depth drops when they make her stereotypical girl, suitcases full of clothes and whatnot. I never felt she was strong. And Misty never felt fully developed (that's what she said), either an obstacle or a tool at best. But she was entertaining, so kudos for that.

 

[Cybersai]

I felt Ash was progressing up till the start of BW. DP definitely felt like it could have been the climax of the character, if they let him win the Sinnoh league and challenge the E4.

 

[Youngster_Joey]

Ash just needs to go. The fact that he was a naive dolt at the beginning was cute, but the fact that he never really grew out of that just makes the show stale.

Sure, the show is about his journey, but really, the guy has a very linear goal-set and overall doesn't have any depth to his personality as other characters in the series do. Heck, if this series had NO supporting characters who traveled by Ash's side, I'm sure EVERYONE would be sick of him at this point.

So people are saying that if Ash is replaced, it would be the same character in a different body... So what? It would at least keep this show somewhat fresh, and even SLIGHT differences in character personality would actually work. Ash just feels done to death, and there is no reason for me to care about him anymore.

 

[Blue1225]

It's time for a new protagonist. A complete overhaul, really. The games found some balls and went out for something different. IMO, it was completely successful, now the anime should follow suit. The answer would be different if Ash's journey actually felt like something progressing, and a real sense of a conclusive path for our star, but it doesn't. And he looks the same, hell, younger even.

The point is, they're just pressing restart at the end of every journey, and that formula is losing ground for me. It's not fresh, and it's not as fun as it use to be. Back in the day, it felt like Ash was going somewhere, now his journey just feels pathetic, like a shell of any potential glory.

Ash needs to pass the torch.

I agree. The writers messed up with the Sinnoh League. Ash should have won there and they could have started out fresh.Up until BW Ash was slowly getting better but now its clear that he's regressed. By keeping Ash, OBVIOUSLY resetting the series and still not bringing in someone new, it looks like they're just clinging onto him when they don't need to.

You would think that with BW being a fresh start, it would be the perfect opportunity/excuse for the writers to replace Ash but it seems that they want to keep him around a bit longer.

As Mr Sanders said, the writers are only keeping him around because its safe. Just like with the original yugioh and the sequel GX, a new character carries a lot of risk and could easily lead to a lot of fans being lost. However, when the writers can't make the character seem interesting anymore they have no choice but to let him go.

Ash is a safety. No new protagonist means they get to pussy foot around the big issues, like telling a cohesive story. They're able to fall back on someone who already had an origin, knows about Pokemon, and they don't know how to do it differently. Unfortunately, it just feels foolish at this point. And Ash seems far less heroic now.

Exactly. Now his character isn't even interesting anymore.

I felt Ash was progressing up till the start of BW. DP definitely felt like it could have been the climax of the character, if they let him win the Sinnoh league and challenge the E4.

I couldn't agree more, especially after watching all the episodes before BW again. The entire time it felt like it was building towards something and it was obvious that Ash was slowly improving. From leaving Pallet Town to beating Paul, he was always growing and improving. DP should have been the end for Ash. He should've won the league and gone off to face the E4, because now his character's just stagnating.

 

[Musashi]

I have the same problem. I don't see why they can't. I'd love to be a fly on that wall. Are they getting pressured into it? Some bigwigs calling the shots, forcing creativity down the fucking toilet? I mean, where's the source of this? Or, is this the best they can do?

When the show first started there was an executive that forced his will on everyone, making it so Shudo couldn't do exactly what he wanted.

He still works for the show today, so I wouldn't be at all surprised if he's still forcing things on the writers. This show is made to promote the games and sell merchandise, after all.

 

[Cybersai]

Make you wonder what will happen if Satoshi's Japanese VA just decides to retire/quit at the end of a generation. Perhaps then they'll finally close out Ash's story.

 

[Musashi]

IIRC, Rica Matsumoto said that it's in her contract that only she can voice Satoshi. If she ever decides to leave, Satoshi should be gone as well.

 

[pokemon fan 132]

I see people saying how Ash should go."he overstayed his welcome","new character would be breath of fresh air"etc not understanding why its easier to say it than being done.

Introducing new male wont change anything really,we would have basically another Ash clone going through another gym quest as rookie with his improvement still coming in slow at nail pace speed requiring 10 years just like Ash did to make more or less same progress.His personality cant be much tweaked around either because typical shounen hero who acts naive and always has to do "right hing"is writers way to appeal to young kids being easier to associate themselves with this type of character.

In essence we would have new face with more or less same personality as Ash has,doing same quest like Ash does(being gyms which will from what it seems be always main quest in games)carrying on his shoulder main mascot of pokemon franchize which will never be replaced(Pikachu).

Now real question is who would like to watch this kind of rerun?
Not to mention if Ash is gone all other older characters(like May,Misty,Dawn,Brock etc) who could offer more developing their stories further would stop existing aswell.

Personally i would rather have Ash stay having him being gradually developed as character.In my opinion its much better to continue developing further already established characters who proved to be success getting to see progress of experienced members than watching another newbie going through baby steps all over again.
He is still popular and widely accepted among older fans and target demographic so they are doing something right obviously.

At least with Ash who is already experienced we dont have to wait for years to see some notable change in his story making steps forward.

Its not like we dont see some character growth with Ash either.Writers are showing his improvement as trainer but problem is that development doesnt come very fast.Occasionally though they show with him some notable improvement during filler arcs like when he managed to become champion in Orange Islands or when he conquered Battle Frontier.
In Sinnoh league he came further than he ever did before coming top 4. If we got new protagonist he would still suffer from same problem of being slowly developed because this is how this anime works.

To be perfectly honest i dont think this anime could survive without Ash and Pikachu.
They became so much integrated in this show being faces of pokemon franchize that either of them being removed involves too much risk for writers and producers to take.

As Mr Sanders said, the writers are only keeping him around because its safe. Just like with the original yugioh and the sequel GX, a new character carries a lot of risk and could easily lead to a lot of fans being lost. However, when the writers can't make the character seem interesting anymore they have no choice but to let him go.

Not to mention there is one big diference with shows like Digimon,Yugioh etc.They wrapped up series after certain story arc is being done starting out new show after relatively small time after 2 to 5 years at most.

Replacing whole cast after few years is one thing,but trying to revamp completely show like pokemon who is going on with Ash and same cast for more than 13 years is a whole different world just asking for trouble.

At this point people already view pokemon series as Ash and older characters show becoming too used to this concept scoring huge popularity.
Trying to take that away might result in big repercusions and big portion of viewers being lost with interest for new show fading away.
If it was so simple they would already replace Ash long time ago.

Exactly. Now his character isn't even interesting anymore.

In my opinion he is still interesting.However i agree that some notable development should be done with his character.

 

[Sweet Veil]

Honestly no. I don't see it happening. Because of a few factors Memory, Satoshi is known pretty well in Japan by the older audience and younger audience it's mostly the older audience that introduces people to the show and buys the toys for the target audience it's happened a lot with shows like Power Rangers/Sentai Series. Ive met dads who watched old stuff and Dragon Ball Z when he was a kid and played with toys he has passed the boton onto his kids the girls like Iris and Dawn/Hikari Boys love Satoshi/Ash.

Ratings right now if you didnt know Pokemon ranks top ten in ratings for tv shows in Japan constantly every week alongside shows like Sazae-San, Shin-Chan, Chibi Maruko Chan, Dragon Ball Z Kai, Pretty Cure, and One Piece I dont see the writers making any drastic changes like that which will make Pokemon's ratings go down I have this feeling it'll be bad for the show cause' Yugioh GX went down HIGHLY and Yugioh 5'Ds ratings r in the shits "1.7's" mosty "1.9" at best. Pokemon gets 5.5-8.7's usually. Beyblade but not as low as Yugioh.

Money the reason this show exist MONEY toy and game advertising is the whole point of this show I dont see them replacing him and cause' Satoshi toys sale pretty well and all the Pokemon stuff like Plushies, food, toys, games, everything is selling awesome I dont see Nintendo risking that at all. If your really hoping for the anime to replace him keep these words in mind.

"The Pokemon Cartoon did it's job, it made you buy toys and games."

 

[Iteru]

I'm mixed on this.

Satoshi already has a fanbase, established connections in Okido-Hakase and Hanako as well as having a tie to the franchise's mascot. The ratings are not bad with him as the star either. (Yes, I refuse to take merchandising into account. When somone provides me some actual figures for sales than I'll take note, and I mean stuff right off the Pokémon Company's desk and/or press releases.)

However, the show has a changing fanbase. Kids grow up and I can only guess that most of them lose interest, especially as the show isn't targeting them anymore. There's always the reason that "Satoshi will seem like a new character for them" but then again so would a different character if the writers didn't want to be tied down to someone with an established past and relations. The fact that they can take the other characters out happily with Kasumi, Haruka, Hikari and Takeshi shows that the same characters do not need to be kept. Musashi, Kojiro and Nyasu, once regarded by many to be on the same level as Satoshi are not being shown as frequently. Due to that I believe that Satoshi being replaced wouldn't result in a new Pokémon Animé being totally awful and unloved.

Personally I think there are both good and bad points about Satoshi being replaced. I don't mind his character and I think he's alright, but I don't watch the show because of him. I watch for the Pokémon, whom the title of the show takes from in Pocket Monsters. As long as the Pokémon are in the show, it's still advertisting the other Pokémon media out there, constant main character or not.

So yeah, I don't mind too much either way and I don't think that some of the factors mentioned are as big as others believe, but that's just my opinion.

 

[Cybersai]

However, the show has a changing fanbase.
So yeah, I don't mind too much either way and I don't think that some of the factors mentioned are as big as others believe, but that's just my opinion.

This is the big reason. Kids watching Ash today do not think of him as being around for 13 years. They've only been watching him a few years and probably just see reruns of the older seasons occassionaly.

The series has gone on well after the fad and the original series, so at this point the writers could easily drop Ash and it wouldn't make a difference.

The problem is there has to be a Pikachu in the anime, and that's probably one of the reasons Ash is kept. I just wish they'd introduce a new Pikachu for a new protagonist with a different personality, its the way to solve this problem.

 

[Ranger Jack Walker]

Introducing new male

It can be female lead.

I think that would be very interesting if given a different personality.

 

[MarshiyanMisutaa]

However, the show has a changing fanbase. Kids grow up and I can only guess that most of them lose interest, especially as the show isn't targeting them anymore. There's always the reason that "Satoshi will seem like a new character for them" but then again so would a different character if the writers didn't want to be tied down to someone with an established past and relations.

Japan actually airs reruns of all the older series.

Kids Station airs Kanto/Orange/Johto as well as AG. Meanwhile Disney Japan is airing the DP series again.

If you live in Japan you can watch any saga on TV.

 

[Iteru]

Japan actually airs reruns of all the older series.

Kids Station airs Kanto/Orange/Johto as well as AG. Meanwhile Disney Japan is airing the DP series again.

If you live in Japan you can watch any saga on TV.

That does not invalidate what I said. The kids getting in to the Pokémon franchise with the Black and White games have no need to watch the less-advertised, irrelevant-to-them sagas on channels that don't let them know of current WiFi events or the latest movie trailers. Their "first saga" will most likely be the currently aired one on TvTokyo, and so the main character of that is all that matters to them from my point of view.

However, the ratings of these reruns would give some insight as to what kind of effect they have on the current target audience.

 

[Duckgon Z]

I'm mixed on this.

Satoshi already has a fanbase, established connections in Okido-Hakase and Hanako as well as having a tie to the franchise's mascot. The ratings are not bad with him as the star either. (Yes, I refuse to take merchandising into account. When somone provides me some actual figures for sales than I'll take note, and I mean stuff right off the Pokémon Company's desk and/or press releases.)

However, the show has a changing fanbase. Kids grow up and I can only guess that most of them lose interest, especially as the show isn't targeting them anymore. There's always the reason that "Satoshi will seem like a new character for them" but then again so would a different character if the writers didn't want to be tied down to someone with an established past and relations. The fact that they can take the other characters out happily with Kasumi, Haruka, Hikari and Takeshi shows that the same characters do not need to be kept. Musashi, Kojiro and Nyasu, once regarded by many to be on the same level as Satoshi are not being shown as frequently. Due to that I believe that Satoshi being replaced wouldn't result in a new Pokémon Animé being totally awful and unloved.

Personally I think there are both good and bad points about Satoshi being replaced. I don't mind his character and I think he's alright, but I don't watch the show because of him. I watch for the Pokémon, whom the title of the show takes from in Pocket Monsters. As long as the Pokémon are in the show, it's still advertisting the other Pokémon media out there, constant main character or not.

So yeah, I don't mind too much either way and I don't think that some of the factors mentioned are as big as others believe, but that's just my opinion.

Pretty much this. I'm half and half and it could really go either way. I'd watch/not watch either way, it all depends on how it's written and how the character is.

 

[Red]

When the show first started there was an executive that forced his will on everyone, making it so Shudo couldn't do exactly what he wanted.

He still works for the show today, so I wouldn't be at all surprised if he's still forcing things on the writers. This show is made to promote the games and sell merchandise, after all.

That's very interesting and I did not know that. Thanks for sharing that bit of intel. As a side note, I have recently put in my indigo league dvd collection and the state of similarity is mind boggling. What do this? Why is Tepig the same as Charmander for god's sake? Anyway, to touch on a new character, what would it have to be a guy? Go all the way, put a female as the lead protagonist, just really push to make it stand out.

And I'm not saying to just replace the main character, the whole series needs an overhaul. The last thing I want to see is another typical journey plot that rehashes the formula. I'm saying throw it all out the window.

Now, personally, I think this serves a great purpose across the board. I don't know the preferred opinion, but I hate when actors are changed for the same character in a series, even if it is because companies changed hands, that's just insulting. Anyone could have came back. The new Ash isn't necessarily bad, but it's not my Ash. And don't even get me started on the god awful James impression, his voice truly feels like a fan dub. This is not a form of bias, it's simply my opinion on the matter, and the new voice work of old characters in general.

This way, there's something in it for everyone; turned off by different VA's? Come on back, we have a whole new deck of characters, series feeling too stale? Come on back, it's like nothing you've seen before!

And the anime can't just be boggled down by merchandise rules, fuck they don't even make figures out of the humans anymore. And kids new to the generation, which BW and the inevitable new series will gear toward, they don't know Ash! They're stepping in with fresh eyes and perspective. Now you might be able to make an argument out of this. "That's why they should keep Ash!" But no it's not.

This is about so much more; the professional integrity of the creators and writers, who are sitting on their ass watching the old series, taking those scripts and just changing names and Pokemon! That's all this is, and all it will continue to be unless there is a huge shift in power. As consumers, that power is with us.

Ash's journey should have concluded in Johto. That was the last time I felt like Ash had a true arc. Since then, it feels cheap, redundant, and an insult to fans of Ash. Loyalty to a character is about so much more than keeping him on the show, it's about pay respect to what that represents, and in all honestly, no loyal fan of Ash can justify the treatment of his character. He's more of a puppet, really, put in situations with all these strings attached, and no real chance in hell for true development.

I've seen this in so many shows, Heroes with the character Sylar. It's not just the creators, it's just as much the fans faults. We're all equally to blame as we continue to endorse it!

 

[MarshiyanMisutaa]

That does not invalidate what I said.

As you said "Satoshi will seem like a new character for them", and Satoshi is already well-known thanks to current saga and reruns of previous series. There is no reason to change him.

 

[CrackFox]

As long as his traveling companions are likeable. He can stay for me. I started to go off him after AG really and since then he's just become blander and blander. BW is seeing an improvement though. His personality has become a little more animated (his trainer skills have dropped severely)
Still, I like Ash I suppose and in reality I don't think they could replace him with anyone better. They'd have to have the same personality to make the show work, and then they'd be a lame Pikachu stand-in. It would just be a bit pointless I think.

 

[Iteru]

As you said "Satoshi will seem like a new character for them", and Satoshi is already well-known thanks to current saga and reruns of previous series. There is no reason to change him.

I also said that it goes both ways, and that with the phasing out of characters that were seen as having solidified positions (Takeshi) and plot crutches (Rockets in every episode stealing Pikachu or a POTD) that Satoshi isn't in such a secure position as he used to be.

Plus I still believe that the kids of this generation don't know him as well as some believe. I'm still thinking of those rerun ratings, though I'm guessing you do not have them to hand.

That's just what I think though, until such numbers can shed light on things, I'll probably go with agree to disagree.