Controversial opinions

[Kurolegacy]

Why bring up the Hero conflicts?

Terapagos didn't do anything to solve either of those.

It literally brought out Arboliva against Moltres.

 

[Eitarou]

Who then proceeded to merely assist in the plan Liko came up with. The plan everyone had already been utilizing.

At the end of the day, it's still Liko's success. It didn't "solve" anything.

Solving would be if Arboliva convinced Moltres to stop all by itself. It tried doing that and failed.

 

[Weddingbells]

Problem there is that it seems like when the kids deal with something it’s not just that they get to deal with it and that be it. Against Spinel, they got to fight…until he then brought out Umbreon at which point Arboliva had to bail them out. They would deal with a hero Pokémon…but then the pendant shines and causes something that ends the conflict. They manage to beat Zir and Conia…but then instantly have to be bailed out by Captain Pikachu because there were more strong enemies there. It just has too much where despite them being the protagonists, they don’t get to have the actual glory and I wonder how long the writers plan to have these ‘in case of plot, break glass’ scenarios because it honestly hurts Liko and Roy’s credibility as the protagonists when they aren’t even allowed to have any definitive force in the plot.

I keep saying this. People who praise the show for being realistic ten year olds etc is such an odd thing. This is Pokemon. The franchise that has ten year old kids go on their very first adventure with dangerous monsters and defeat champions after a few weeks of getting their starter. Who TF wanted realistic ten year olds? That goes against the whole nature of the franchise. It's one of my major gripes with SM anime. If you want realism in Pokemon I'm sorry your watching the wrong series

Liko constantly needed to be bailed by friede is frustrating. Heck in the Orla episode she could of solved the issue herself but nah let her call leafage the 100th time and then immediately have another inner monologue Bec her cat is so amazing. Do t get me started on Roy who hasn't won a battle since episode 8 I think

 

[Kurolegacy]

Who then proceeded to merely assist in the plan Liko came up with. The plan everyone had already been utilizing.

At the end of the day, it's still Liko's success. It didn't "solve" anything.

Solving would be if Arboliva convinced Moltres to stop all by itself. It tried doing that and failed.

It‘s a matter that, just as with Spinel, the writers placed them into a situation in which they could not prevail without, once again, having the pendant bring a Hero Pokémon in to help them like some cheap summon. Prior to this series where in all of Pokémon across its various medians, was the protagonist given such a crutch as to prevent failure? What real reason is there for characters to get stronger if they have so much to fall back in the face of their own shortcomings rather than have there be consequences to that?

 

[Die-Hard Dragon Devotee]

Heck in the Orla episode she could of solved the issue herself but nah let her call leafage the 100th time and then immediately have another inner monologue Bec her cat is so amazing.

Thaank you. Glad someone here finally addressed that issue. Jesus, just let Sprigatito learn a new move already for God's sake. The nonstop Leafage thing is getting old fast.

 

[Kurolegacy]

Thaank you. Glad someone here finally addressed that issue. Jesus, just let Sprigatito learn a new move already for God's sake. The nonstop Leafage thing is getting old fast.

Seriously. It hasn’t learned a new move since episode 7 with Quick Attack. Meanwhile Fuecoco‘s learned both Stomping Tantrum and Flamethrower and Wattrel Spark since then.

 

[RetroPokeFan]

Seriously. It hasn’t learned a new move since episode 7 with Quick Attack. Meanwhile Fuecoco‘s learned both Stomping Tantrum and Flamethrower and Wattrel Spark since then.

It's honestly quite funny thinking about this. Here's Fuecoco packing a whole bunch of moves and yet the cat's still playing catch up with just one or two of them.

 

[Ghost Diplocaulus]

Okay, here's an opinion that if I said literally anywhere else I'd be devoured alive: I am not a fan of Captain Pikachu, and I honestly have been pretty mixed on him since the start. Not because he's replacing Ash's Pikachu or anything, but rather because I think Horizons is trying WAY too hard to make him "cool" what with him being the one to always save the day, and the latest episode is where I feel the shtick of him being the only competent Pokemon whenever there's a crisis is starting to get really old: Liko, Roy, Dot and their Pokemon needing to be saved by Pikachu could be given a pass because they're still inexperienced children, but when it turns out that even the adult members of the Rising Volt Tackler's need Captain Pikachu's help (as the latest episode demonstrated when Orla and her Metagross proved unable to defeat the Galarian Weezing by themselves) the mascot favoritism is really starting to go overboard: literally every Pokemon belonging to a major character is either a vile antagonist to be defeated by Captain Pikachu or an incompetent damsel to be saved by Captain Pikachu. I just hope that at least Roy and Liko and their Pokemon are allowed to actually grow out of this because so far the show feels like it's less about them and more about flexing the franchise mascot for the gazillionth time.

 

[Karakuri18]

Liko, Roy, Dot and their Pokemon needing to be saved by Pikachu could be given a pass because they're still inexperienced children

This argument is slowly starting to get old. It's true that MC and Dot are beginners, but how can they gain experience if they are not allowed to?

 

[Ghost Diplocaulus]

This argument is slowly starting to get old. It's true that MC and Dot are beginners, but how can they gain experience if they are not allowed to?

I said "could", not "should"

 

[Daren]

Okay, here's an opinion that if I said literally anywhere else I'd be devoured alive: I am not a fan of Captain Pikachu, and I honestly have been pretty mixed on him since the start. Not because he's replacing Ash's Pikachu or anything, but rather because I think Horizons is trying WAY too hard to make him "cool" what with him being the one to always save the day, and the latest episode is where I feel the shtick of him being the only competent Pokemon whenever there's a crisis is starting to get really old: Liko, Roy, Dot and their Pokemon needing to be saved by Pikachu could be given a pass because they're still inexperienced children, but when it turns out that even the adult members of the Rising Volt Tackler's need Captain Pikachu's help (as the latest episode demonstrated when Orla and her Metagross proved unable to defeat the Galarian Weezing by themselves) the mascot favoritism is really starting to go overboard: literally every Pokemon belonging to a major character is either a vile antagonist to be defeated by Captain Pikachu or an incompetent damsel to be saved by Captain Pikachu.

Okay, with Horizons not available here yet I knew from a bit of online chatter that Captain Pikachu was being built up to an extent but I'm a bit amazed at how far it's apparently going. Even when Ash's Pikachu was portrayed as a regional ace he never completely dominated the competence zone and was not uncommonly the butt of jokes and slapstick. Has the captain actually had trouble in a battle or been used for the joke or is he just stomping everyone?

 

[Ghost Diplocaulus]

Okay, with Horizons not available here yet I knew from a bit of online chatter that Captain Pikachu was being built up to an extent but I'm a bit amazed at how far it's apparently going. Even when Ash's Pikachu was portrayed as a regional ace he never completely dominated the competence zone and was not uncommonly the butt of jokes and slapstick. Has the captain actually had trouble in a battle or been used for the joke or is he just stomping everyone?

The closest that Captain Pikachu has come to having trouble was when Amethio had a rematch against him and was taking him more seriously as an opponent, but even then Amethio's Ceruledge wasn't really dominating so much as it was just able to trade blows with Pikachu equally.

As for jokes and slapstick, so far nothing.

 

[LuxrayOfTheWild]

You know, I think I have the same issues many share regarding Pokemon Horizons plot and characters. I genuinely like Liko and Roy, but the problem is they've been unable to grow. They're constantly thrown into these situations they're bailed out of by Friede or even one of the Hero Pokemon. Nothing truly compells them to grow. They're not on their own like Ash was. They're not compelled to grow stronger. And if Friede isn't around to save them, they can just call upon one of Lucian's Pokemon. It feels like there's no stakes. I've grown especially sick of Friede bailing them out and his constant battles with Amethio never going anywhere.

Also I feel like we have no real sense of where things are going. What happens when we collect all these Pokemon? We're 30 episodes in and we're about to find Lucian's Lapras, but what is the purpose? And where is the protecting Terapagos plot even going? Are we trying to get Terapagos somewhere?

It really makes me miss the days of Ash and co traveling on their own without having adults to constantly bail them out. As well as having a clear direction like the Pokemon League or Grand Festival. Horizons was so refreshing at first, but these issues with the plot and lack of chances for real growth are really starting to weigh it down.

 

[RetroPokeFan]

I'm still enjoying Horizons a hell of a lot but I can definitely understand a lot of the problems some people are having with the series like Friede having to constantly bail Liko and Roy out of situations.

It's been somewhat cool at first but the problem is that they seem to be relying on this trait/cliché a lot and I certainly think it's going to be as old as out of date milk if by say Episode 100, they have Liko battle another Explorer member only to have Friede still suddenly jumping in to save the day once again leaving Liko to be the damsel in distress except she's not really in distress cause she only battled that member for a fraction of a second before Friede came in to say "It's volt tacklin time!"

Liko and Roy's gotta stand up for em one day.

 

[Alola]

I had to watch the most recent Horizons episode when I read that Captain Pikachu once again finished/hijacked a fight. That really should have been Orla's moment...she possesses a Metagross, which is one of the most perfect Pokémon one could use against a Galarian Weezing; there's no reason they couldn't have let Metagross have that spotlight, and show off its four brains on par with a supercomputer... Mind you, this is fresh off Captain Pikachu saving Liko & Roy from the Poke Ball Thief's quartet of Steel-types (even though Roy should have been able to at least defeat one of them with his Fuecoco's Fire & ground moves). It's just...really frustrating at this point. They are making it so that Liko and Roy can't battle effectively at all outside of scarce offscreen victories against Team Explorer grunts.

You know, I think I have the same issues many share regarding Pokemon Horizons plot and characters. I genuinely like Liko and Roy, but the problem is they've been unable to grow. They're constantly thrown into these situations they're bailed out of by Friede or even one of the Hero Pokemon. Nothing truly compells them to grow. They're not on their own like Ash was. They're not compelled to grow stronger. And if Friede isn't around to save them, they can just call upon one of Lucian's Pokemon. It feels like there's no stakes. I've grown especially sick of Friede bailing them out and his constant battles with Amethio never going anywhere.

Also I feel like we have no real sense of where things are going. What happens when we collect all these Pokemon? We're 30 episodes in and we're about to find Lucian's Lapras, but what is the purpose? And where is the protecting Terapagos plot even going? Are we trying to get Terapagos somewhere?

It really makes me miss the days of Ash and co traveling on their own without having adults to constantly bail them out. As well as having a clear direction like the Pokemon League or Grand Festival. Horizons was so refreshing at first, but these issues with the plot and lack of chances for real growth are really starting to weigh it down.

This so much. Which makes it baffling to me the sheer amount of praise I see the show get on the likes of Twitter, Reddit, and other online platforms.

I still am having trouble identifying what makes Liko & Roy our protagonists, let alone who they are as characters, when most of the heavy lifting is done by the adults that are caring for them. There aren't any stakes, barely any reputable personal growth, and few opportunities for them to effectively problem solve within their means; I still think we have too many characters as well fighting for screentime. And that's nothing to say of the lack of battling, which is the quintessential component of the franchise the anime is based on. Has Liko even had a formal Trainer Battle yet? And by formal, I mean no practice matches, no battling against Team Explorers, no being called off, and no 2 on 1 scenarios - a proper, Trainer Vs. Trainer battle with a clear winner and loser. And if that number is less than, let's say four (given the total episodes we have), why is that? This shift away from the previous formula to a very abstract umbrella of "wanting to travel & focus on little moments" is just not impressive in my opinion and makes it all hard to watch. It also doesn't have to be mutually exclusive!

I agree about the plot. I still do not understand what the goal is behind Rayquaza and Terapagos, nor what tangible steps there are to achieving said goal. It also really bothers me because GF gave us two endearing Legendary Pokémon complete with backstories that could been adapted very well with Liko & Roy (if they were going to make a series focused on Legendary Pokémon), but have chosen to neglect the Raidon in favor of a random Rayquaza and a DLC Legendary the writers appear not have any idea on what to do with. And speaking of which, we're how many episodes in with the Explorers and are still clueless as to why they do what they do.

 

[Eitarou]

It was her moment. That's why Friede asked her to help. Because he knew it was something only she could do.

I don't understand why people keep acting like Cap did anything to solve the issue when that's the opposite of what the episode portrayed. He didn't even knock all the Weezing out.

It honestly feels like people are acting like it doesn't count because it wasn't through batte.

 

[darksteel6]

After catching up on the last few pages and hearing about the turn the anime takes I have to say i'm not a fan, making Pokemon more "realistic" seems to be completely missing the overall point and having adults bailing the kids out sounds like it really sucks the fun out of the show.

 

[Articfoxgamez]

Are we trying to get Terapagos somewhere?

This one does have an awnser, they are trying to also get to Rakua, because Terapagos wants to go there in hopes of seeing Lucius again (Even if he should probably be dead by now). As for the six heroes, its because Liko thinks they will need all of them in order to reach Rakua.

I had to watch the most recent Horizons episode when I read that Captain Pikachu once again finished/hijacked a fight. That really should have been Orla's moment...she possesses a Metagross, which is one of the most perfect Pokémon one could use against a Galarian Weezing; there's no reason they couldn't have let Metagross have that spotlight, and show off its four brains on par with a supercomputer... Mind you, this is fresh off Captain Pikachu saving Liko & Roy from the Poke Ball Thief's quartet of Steel-types (even though Roy should have been able to at least defeat one of them with his Fuecoco's Fire & ground moves)

I think they wanted to go the route with the whole solving the situation by overdriving the machinary and destracting the weezing with the smoke, which fits Orla more than just winning via battle. And they couldn't do that without the weezing being distracted. Not saying if the way they went about it was good or not, just that thats probably why they did it that way.

 

[Kurolegacy]

I think they wanted to go the route with the whole solving the situation by overdriving the machinary and destracting the weezing with the smoke, which fits Orla more than just winning via battle. And they couldn't do that without the weezing being distracted. Not saying if the way they went about it was good or not, just that thats probably why they did it that way.

I’d say the problem even in that was, it wasn’t even Orla’s idea to do so but Friede’s. Even in a scenario where another character solved a problem in a way that only they could, it was because Friede gave them the instruction to. They could have very well removed Friede from the occasion and had Orla come up with the solution but instead gave the commanding role to Friede in an episode that was about Orla.

 

[Alola]

It was her moment. That's why Friede asked her to help. Because he knew it was something only she could do.

That was completely undermined by the fact that Friede came up with the plan and gave her orders; she couldn't even grasp what he was doing, ultimately deciding just to trust him because he's "Friede." She literally states as much during the episode. We must have differing definitions as what characterizes a character's moment, because that was not it as far as I'm concerned. Nothing of value would have been lost to have Orla realize herself (and subsequently make a plan to execute) that producing excess smog would calm the Weezing; that would arguably be her moment as a character to stand on her own feet, especially in her first focus episode.

I don't understand why people keep acting like Cap did anything to solve the issue when that's the opposite of what the episode portrayed. He didn't even knock all the Weezing out.

That's not the point. It speaks volumes that he did knock out multiple Weezing in a singular strike, while Orla's Metagross (!) could at best cause only one an injury played for comedic effect. And that doesn't address how Cap kept the remaining swarm of Weezing at bay by his lonesome, to give Friede & Orla enough time to generate the excess smog. He, and Friede by extension, contributed largely to the climax of the episode. Which is, again, where the consternation is coming from as it is a recurring pattern.