Mafia Dungeons & Dragons Mafia (13p) - Game End

[FinalArcadia]

Not sure I agree with a No Lynch here, because all it takes is mafia night killing someone like Zekrom, who would leave us almost nothing to work with going into D2 as they interacted with literally nobody and has barely even been discussed other than by ExLight. It'd be like just extending this phase in practice.

 

[ExLight]

mafia probably won't kill zekrom unless they're trying to make a ridiculous framejob on me because they usually lack any sportsmanship and just want to go for an easy win

they'd probably shoot mido or human or minish or hopefully me

 

[Midorikawa]

Not sure I agree with a No Lynch here, because all it takes is mafia night killing someone like Zekrom, who would leave us almost nothing to work with going into D2 as they interacted with literally nobody and has barely even been discussed other than by ExLight. It'd be like just extending this phase in practice.

To me that’s preferable over us lynching him especially when people are simply going “light lynching inactive is nai.” That’s no different. But at least if mafia does nightkill him we are only 1 townie down over two.

 

[FinalArcadia]

To me that’s preferable over us lynching him especially when people are simply going “light lynching inactive is nai.” That’s no different. But at least if mafia does nightkill him we are only 1 townie down over two.

You've got a point there. I usually prefer to take the chance to possibly hit scum over going with a no lynch, but if the leading wagon was Zekrom, I'd see the logic. That said, it feels a bit early to be thinking about a no lynch when we still have 24 hours left. Feels like it should be more of a last-ditch effort in case the rest of the day doesn't bring any more useful clues.

 

[Quasar_Catfish]

That said, it feels a bit early to be thinking about a no lynch when we still have 24 hours left.

I feel the same about lynching an inactive. If it gets closer to End of Day and they still aren't present, I can understand them being inactive, but I think it's too early right now. Zekrom is a bit of a special case, though, since they haven't even logged in since Thursday. Snowy has at least confirmed their slot.

 

[ZinnLav]

I’m going to pull a Zinn.

Let's honor Zinn in their own game and do this, at least for d1.

 

[FinalArcadia]

I feel the same about lynching an inactive. If it gets closer to End of Day and they still aren't present, I can understand them being inactive, but I think it's too early right now. Zekrom is a bit of a special case, though, since they haven't even logged in since Thursday. Snowy has at least confirmed their slot.

Snowy's actual one post was very weak though, especially when the thread was moving out of the RVS point by then. Zekrom, though, yeah, I agree that a lynch isn't going to really provide information beyond WIFOM about ExLight, aside from the chance that they actually are inactive mafia and we got lucky. But nobody seems to be advocating for that anymore anyway.

I guess my point is that voting "no lynch" this early has the chance of quieting discussion for the last half of the phase if most people agree to it. Like, even the Zekrom vote regardless of what anyone thinks of it at least triggered discussion. A lot of it, between ExLight, Zexy, and others to a lesser degree.

 

[Quasar_Catfish]

Snowy's actual one post was very weak though, especially when the thread was moving out of the RVS point by then.

I would like to give Snowy the chance to come back and provide better info, reads, or counters to what's been said about them rather than just voting them immediately. But if it's clear they aren't coming back closer to the vote deadline, then I wouldn't be opposed to a vote on them.

 

[ExLight]

 

[HumanDawn]

I am back but won’t have access for long. Literally might leave just as I am about timo post this lol

I think you're being a bit modest here lol, there's a reason you've been the Mafia Universe rep from here before. There's not a specific game I'm thinking of about the "town leader" part; we both know there are games where you are among the most prominent posters in-thread with a lot of sway in how opinions go, even as mafia.

It's why you will always be one of the players I am most paranoid of in general. Funnily enough, the group of you, Zexy, and Midori are all three people I am afraid of trusting too easily because I know you're all especially good at having an in-thread persona that is similar when town OR mafia.

I am not being modest.

I do not accept praise for things I did not do.

If I do, I am only laughing at myself.

Being among the most prominent posters is different than being an actual Town leader who can screw everyone by ordering the Town to misuse their power role actions and votes.

The only game I have Town lead without being Town is a game Mint Elv hosted, and I was an Independent.

I don’t recall you even playing that game.

Unvote: Minish
Vote: FinalArcadia

The issue here is not that you tried to put paranoia on my Town Leader claim by saying that I am capable to do it as Mafia - but when I pressed on to point out that this was just not true, you changed your tune that it wasn’t Town leading but instead regular Mafia play of getting mislynches in with my own argumentative skills, which is different from your original claim that I have Town lead effectively as Mafia.

No specific game in mind is awfully convenient, so you had to change your claim when caught trying to give a reason to justify your paranoia.

 

[HumanDawn]

I think you miss a Jamie vote on ExLight?

... Also I am going through HD posts and I see no relevant adressing of Ex either at least half+ his posts in, this IS sus, we have 2 of the top 3 active players barely acknowledging each other's existence for most early game. I did FEEL something was off about them but could not exactly pinpoint it... It is the omission of interactions that makes it feel weird.

Like this joke post is his only major mention by name that comes up in search.

This is the next Ex-related post Human has, looong after.

Thank you for confirming that we are not scum aligned Zexy, because if I was Mafia with ExLight, I would be doing so much theatre with him we would not be thought of as scum together.

I didn’t mind ExLight this game. He said he town leaned, his other reads weren’t offensive, and last time I hounded him for his lack of bite in his posts he was a Town Doctor.x

 

[HumanDawn]

I assume tied wagons for maximum risk reward ain't an option?

Spoiler

View attachment 176207

Neither.

 

[HumanDawn]

Reads List:
TL - Jamie, Arcadia, Raven, Light, Dawning
50/50 - Human, Berry, Mint, Zexy
Null - Snowy, Minish, Zekrom

Jamie claimed Miller, with no counter-claims. If Zinn has a meta for including one, it's very dangerous for Mafia to claim this immediately.
Arcadia and Raven have been making good responses, Arcadia especially for not having played in a while.
Light is a funny boy. His push backs are from being put in a corner and I agree with his policy on inactives, though I think it's too early in D1 to focus on that right now.
Dawning has made fine posts but nothing has stood out to me too much.

Human is a funny man. No one's going to trust a "Treat me as hard-cleared" without further evidence. Highest one on the 50/50 ladder because he's the closest to Town Lean. Very easily could be the bottom of Town Lean also.
Berry had a fine reads list but claiming to be a bad lynch for Town is quite suspicious. Mafia, Power Roles, Jester, and potentially Wagons would all feel this way, so exclaiming this doesn't sit right with me.
Mint is always 50/50 on D1.
Zexy is intentionally playing differently than previous games, so it's hard to tell if his difference in behavior is because of this or something else. Being so flighty with his votes doesn't sit right with me, though.

The rest haven't stood out to me yet.

Anyone claiming to not get pinged for the start of the game is NAI. It could imply they don't have a Mafia/Neighbor PM, but a not-yet-active Mafia member could piggyback on other people's claims even if they have a PM, or they simply didn't notice their notification for it. I also don't know how notifications work because I get alerts from watching the thread anyways, and just check back regularly, especially with being a later join to the player queue.


I don't entirely agree with this train of thought.

I am fine with this reads list but I would prefer a vote.

 

[HumanDawn]

Jamie - yall keep talking abt miller claims being dumb for mafia and im choosing to believe it.
Arcadia - she seems to be playing well so far. feels very solvy, i like her takes on ex in particular tbh.
Raven - read above lol. iirc most scum don't pay as close of attention to wagonomics d1, or at least that's what i recall. solvy vibes as well so far.
Dawning - i think they tend to be pretty hands-offy but they seem... i dunno. i dont have anything backing this up necessarily but the zexy interaction at the start and... just some of their general behavior seem town to me?? like usually it's town that get most uncomfortable with people hardcore pushing them as town lol. although because i really do not have anything SOLID backing this up and i acknowledge that, they're just a light town read to me currently. as in, someone i think isn't cleared but isn't my first choice. you feel me? (take a look inside my brain. the people always different but it always feels the same. that's the real me,)
Quas - counterclaim statement makes me think town. but once again, if that's literally the ONLY thing i have to go off of, i can't in good faith put them THAT high
Mido - null so far. strangely thats nai for her though. i dont think it's easy to get a good grasp on her until the game really gets rolling, at least coming from go rush and chess experience. 50/50. works as an emergency lynch, i think we have better options currently. someone to keep an eye on i guess.
Ex - im gonna be honest i think hes been unfairly villainized here. inactive votes are literally just policy for him and his frustration seems very genuine. he seems a bit less pushy than usual which makes me wary but i dont see how he's some people's bottom read. not that he's my top, but he's pretty middling in my book for now. that being said, considering ex meta, if he doesnt start acting townier somewhat soon the red flags are goin up
Minish and Zekrom - i just havent quite seen enough of minish to make a decision and most certainly not enough zekrom. i really dislike how the latter has not even confirmed but maybe hes going through something that prohibits him from being active rn, idk. i know he has college exams coming up, my brother is in college and i can guarantee those things are a pain in the ass and take up a lot of time.
i would pressure vote him but i think itd be kind of a waste and i really dunno if itll work anyway.
Human - neutral-scum. being mafia and immediately, aggressively trying to instate himself as town leader is definitely bold, but so is he, i guess, and chess proved just how important to scum powerwolfing can really be. i really don't buy the reasoning in this statement either:

ngl this is weak and means nothing to me. i know he has a... very, very unique playstyle, but that doesnt necessarily lend to the idea that hes town either. i started out neutral on him but being like... awake lmao and going through his posts again, cant say im a fan. (i didnt like the wagon on him earlier though either.)
Zexy - torchic boy you i think you're a great guy but you seem a little off your game right here. i know this is kinda pot calling the kettle black but he seems even flakier and more paranoid than usual so far. i wasnt a huge fan of the reason he started suspecting me, but it's also a little weird imo he only seemed to really back down from scumreading me after people came to my defense. (although thank you guys btw lol.) although i do acknowledge people's opinions and reads change over time, and that length of time can greatly vary..... realistically speaking i wanna give him the benefit of the doubt, but it's d1 and this is the stuff we kinda have to work with, isnt it.
all this being said hes actually more liable to have my read on him changed than anyone else, if only because so far he doesnt seem to match what i know of either his scum or town meta. then again, could be trying something new, he seemed dissatisfied with his scum performance in chess. ugh whatever. this is why i hate d1 reads lists.
Snowy - i dislike him being my lowest read bc of how inactive he has been but i really dont care for what ive seen so far. could be a semi joke vote, but i dont think human was acting particularly problematic at the time and he really didnt elaborate much and has not even shown up since. however, i feel that hes possibly lhf, but to be honest he is still who im most comfortable lynching at the moment... im gonna wait for more formative stuff to pop up though before voting bc i feel like most of you who have played with me probably know that i really hate switching votes constantly? well if you didnt now you do.

gonna drop the subject after this unless i find a good reason to bring it back up but i mean what i said btw.
jamie, if you dont have it by now, dont expect me to soft anything else, so good luck.
also my apologies this took half an hour to type out, my keyboard (i am on my pc, usually i am on my laptop) does not work properly.

This reads list is generally better than the last one, but there is still no vote. I am more comfortable Townreading berry after this.

 

[HumanDawn]

Again the issue is you’re doing it D1. You’re not giving the hosts a chance to even sub in a dead town member. Your vote screams opportunistic easy lynch and also just implies no effort towards scumhunting.

If it is ExLight’s meta then this becomes very null.

 

[Quasar_Catfish]

I am fine with this reads list but I would prefer a vote.

Not interested in voting Light right now, Zexy has enough votes on him, and I prefer not to vote Snowy for being inactive until later. I'd prefer to keep my vote on Mint for now, even if it's somewhat RVS, but not entirely.

 

[HumanDawn]

Clarify what? He claimed IC that will be revealed at d1 start at n0 so he could do aggressive pushes while the game has "started", but would not get sussed for it, until the day actually started and we saw he was not IC. I did consider it being all lolfake, but it was still the best lead I had at the time, literally immediately after Day started.

I did not claim Innocent Child, but that I should be treated as such.

What do we think of Human trying to pull something similar to Chess Mafia, where he was trying to play as if he were Mafia for the sake of understanding and bettering his playstyle, just on the opposite side of the spectrum this time?

I played as if I was Town. Imagine myself Mafia but act as I would as Town.

This is, no offence, a really bad (i had to milden the negative adjective here so i will leave it to your imagination) shade.

You are trying to test the waters on two unrelated things in function. One was for myself, one is for everyone.

Seriously, how is it even connected in any way other than I posted something about it Day 0?

 

[Quasar_Catfish]

Seriously, how is it even connected in any way other than I posted something about it Day 0?

With how strange of a play it is, one must imagine what your thought process could be. I wasn't trying to throw shade at you, just offering one possible justification for your actions.

 

[HumanDawn]

I did explain I was basically gambitting and wanted Human/Ex to think they had me pocketed for a bit.

What were you even hoping to achieve with this?

 

[HumanDawn]

.Internet cutting off, so this may be last post

Note: these are not in order within each tier, just how they came to mind

People I would definitely not want to lynch today:
JamieIsBored
Quasar_Catfish
beryllium

People I would also prooooobably not want to lynch, but with less certainty:
DawningWinds
Mint Elv
Zexy
ExLight

People I would consider voting:
Snowy
Minish
HumanDawn
RavenRaziel98
ZekromMuhDad

Of the bottom list, Minish is the most fringe-case because I don't really remember anything being suspicious, but I also don't really remember anything really striking me as town either.

Feel like I'm in the minority here about Raven, but looking back through his posts, they feel very noncommittal a lot of the time. Seems like a lot of mentioning things as NAI, but not a lot of really clear stances.

Snowy I've mentioned why before. Zekrom is really because there is literally nothing to go on. Human is partly because I'm tinfoiling possible mafia/mafia interactions with him and either Snowy or Raven. I'm just not sure how much of Human's game this time around is due to him preparing for a trip, though.

Those in the 3 of the definitely not lynch are because of a claim and soft claims.

What are the connections with Snowy and Raven? I already replied about Snowy but I don’t see how that would even connect us…

What about my game is actually really any different? If I refused to give the usual amount of reads or analysis I would agree, but I have not shyed off from my attitude or criticism of anyone except to avoid get banned.