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Fire starters... Are Game Freak beating a dead horse?

Yeah, at first, I wondered how I ever beat Brock whenever I chose Charmander. Then I remembered. I used a Mankey. You can catch it on the route leading to the Pokemon League. So there IS one reliable Pokemon available to you before the first gym, but that still stinks. I'd rather have a choice than be forced to use a dumb pig monkey. xP

BW gives you the same problem, only you're forced to use one of the elemental monkeys. I chose not to, though, and I had a hard time. Eventually won, but still.
 
Grass Type Trainer said:
UnovaCastaway said:
Game Freak's been enamored with the Chinese epic Journey to the West. The major characters include a fighting monkey and a fighting pig, which were the direct inspirations for two of the fire starters.

There's also a river spirit in there, so maybe there will be a Water/Fighting starter coming soon?
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The pig in Journey to the West had an association with water, if I'm not mistaken. By that logic, Emboar should have been Water/Fighting.
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Meh - either way Emboar SHOULDN'T have been Fire/Fighting. He should've been Fire/Ground.

And I saw this on another post, but Samurott should've been Water/Fighting. It's based on a Samurai - and it makes perfect sense to have a fighting type.
 
My reasoning for not wanting another Fire/Fighting started? I'm bored of it. That's all. I don't care about weaknesses or the metagame any more when it comes to this. When they design Pokémon, they design them with a concept. And I want new concepts.
 
Ebelle said:
My reasoning for not wanting another Fire/Fighting started? I'm bored of it. That's all. I don't care about weaknesses or the metagame any more when it comes to this. When they design Pokémon, they design them with a concept. And I want new concepts.
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YES. This is one point which I neglected to get across. Silly of me really since it's the main point I meant to get across.
 
If they make a Gen VI, they should go back to something like...I dunno, how Charizard was Fire/Flying? And how Venusaur was Grass/Poison? I mean, if you're gonna do dual types, at least give the other two ones? We haven't ever seen a Water/Ice starter, although Empoleon did have a cool type combo. I dunno, I don't usually get Fire type starters -- I'm more of a Water person -- but I think having the same type combo over and over again gets old. Give 'em something cool, like Fire and...uh, Fire/Ground. I dunno.
 
The thing is, we thought there were too many Fire/Fighting starters in Gen IV. Back then, it was very clear that Infernape was the better of the two, but in Gen V, we've got an uber Fire/Fighting starter (Blaziken), another really good one (Infernape), and an elephant turd (Emboar). If Emboar was actually good, I may not have minded too much, but it being just another Fire/Fighting was so frustrating. And if you ask me, none of the Gen V starters are good, but I still like Emboar the most.

And I don't think just taking a different spin on a Fire starter is such a good idea - I think they should do away with the Grass-Fire-Water cycle, and actually have that Psychic-Fighting-Dark cycle that was rumoured before Gen IV started.

oshawottin said:
Give 'em something cool, like Fire and...uh, Fire/Ground. I dunno.
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Giving it a x4 weakness to Water? No thanks. Swampert having a x4 weakness to Grass isn't so bad, but get a Drizzle Politoed and it'll be dead in seconds.
 
Ebelle said:
My reasoning for not wanting another Fire/Fighting starter? I'm bored of it. That's all. I don't care about weaknesses or the metagame any more when it comes to this. When they design Pokémon, they design them with a concept. And I want new concepts.
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PREACH!!!

GallifreyanGallade said:
The thing is, we thought there were too many Fire/Fighting starters in Gen IV. Back then, it was very clear that Infernape was the better of the two, but in Gen V, we've got an uber Fire/Fighting starter (Blaziken), another really good one (Infernape), and an elephant turd (Emboar). If Emboar was actually good, I may not have minded too much, but it being just another Fire/Fighting was so frustrating. And if you ask me, none of the Gen V starters are good, but I still like Emboar the most.
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I could make a case for Serperior being pretty good now that the BW2 Move Tutors have been revealed. And I didn't find Infernape's typing to be annoying. I just found the Pokemon as a whole annoying.

And I don't think just taking a different spin on a Fire starter is such a good idea - I think they should do away with the Grass-Fire-Water cycle, and actually have that Psychic-Fighting-Dark cycle that was rumoured before Gen IV started.
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Yeah, that's unlikely to happen.
 
Grass Type Trainer said:
GallifreyanGallade said:
The thing is, we thought there were too many Fire/Fighting starters in Gen IV. Back then, it was very clear that Infernape was the better of the two, but in Gen V, we've got an uber Fire/Fighting starter (Blaziken), another really good one (Infernape), and an elephant turd (Emboar). If Emboar was actually good, I may not have minded too much, but it being just another Fire/Fighting was so frustrating. And if you ask me, none of the Gen V starters are good, but I still like Emboar the most.
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I could make a case for Serperior being pretty good now that the BW2 Move Tutors have been revealed. And I didn't find Infernape's typing to be annoying. I just found the Pokemon as a whole annoying.
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Hey, if we had access to Contrary Serperior, I would be all over it.
 
Ah, you're correct. I apologize for the misconception. I didn't use Tepig, nor the other two, so I apologize for my non-too-thought out input!

I think the Psychic-Fighting-Dark starters would be an awesome spin on the monotony of the usual 3 starters, but I'm not sure about how other fans would take it? I mean, I guess a lot of people look forward to having three types that they can rely on, but with the former types listed, you can have a chance to train and get to know the other Water-Fire-Grass types in the game.
 
GallifreyanGallade said:
Hey, if we had access to Contrary Serperior, I would be all over it.
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Non-Contrary Serperior is pretty good now that it gets access to Synthesis, Aqua Tail, Knock Off and Dragon Pulse, but that's digressing from the point of the thread.

Anyway, Fire/Fighting Starters should just stop. I think we can all agree on that.

The funny thing is, I probably wouldn't mind the typing if it wasn't on a Starter. If it was just a random wild Pokemon, hell, I think I might actually like it; but the fact that we're stuck with this choice if we want to choose a Fire Starter is quite annoying.
 
oshawottin said:
I think the Psychic-Fighting-Dark starters would be an awesome spin on the monotony of the usual 3 starters, but I'm not sure about how other fans would take it? I mean, I guess a lot of people look forward to having three types that they can rely on, but with the former types listed, you can have a chance to train and get to know the other Water-Fire-Grass types in the game.
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Well I'd love it if they did Psychic-Fighting-Dark, as I'm all for change in video games as long as it doesn't ruin anything.
 
If they did that, I am choosing Dark, no mater what. ^^ And I do agree that GameFreak's just stretching out the same Fie types. Maybe next generation a Fire/Poison?
 
Anyone else notice that all of the Starter's sub-types until now have been of the former 'physical' category?

Back before Gen IV, Poison (Venusaur,) Flying (Charizard,) Ground (Swampert/Torterra,) Steel (Empoleon,) and Fighting (Blaziken/Infernape/Emboar) were all considered physical types. I'm not saying it's a trend, but it is a pattern.

Maybe that explains why we haven't seen a Starter with a Dragon/Ice/Electric/Psychic/Dark sub-type yet.
 
Which means Rock, Bug, Ghost, and Normal are next in line, but none of them would benefit as a secondary type for Fire starters.
 
Not necessarily. They could reuse Poison, Fighting, Flying, Steel and Ground for other Pokemon.

And who cares if its beneficial to the type, as long as it fits the concept?
 
Fit the concept AND help survive the current metagame. It's what got Charizard and Typhlosion in the low tiers in the first place and lost their reputations as decent Pokemon.
 
Ghetsis-Dennis said:
Fit the concept AND help survive the current metagame. It's what got Charizard and Typhlosion in the low tiers in the first place and lost their reputations as decent Pokemon.
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IF they did care about the metagame enough to tailor make every Pokemon to thrive in it, don't you think they'd pay more attention to the Japanese metagame (which is a COMPLETELY different ball game, just ask anyone) than the western one?

I'm not saying that they don't care about the metagame, but you're grossly overstating its importance. The metagame is strictly secondary to concept. Hell, it may even be tertiary to some other factor. Metagame performance and concept design are not, have never been and will never be on equal level.
 
Grass Type Trainer said:
Ghetsis-Dennis said:
Fit the concept AND help survive the current metagame. It's what got Charizard and Typhlosion in the low tiers in the first place and lost their reputations as decent Pokemon.
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IF they did care about the metagame enough to tailor make every Pokemon to thrive in it, don't you think they'd pay more attention to the Japanese metagame (which is a COMPLETELY different ball game, just ask anyone) than the western one?

I'm not saying that they don't care about the metagame, but you're grossly overstating its importance. The metagame is strictly secondary to concept. Hell, it may even be tertiary to some other factor. Metagame performance and concept design are not, have never been and will never be on equal level.
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Wait, how different is Japan's metagame to be exact? Most of the Pokemon I fought from them at Random Matchups mostly use Pokemon from the western metagame's OU tier plus Blaziken, Garchomp, Excadrill, and Thundurus and minus Ferrothorn.
 
Oooh man, I was so hoping Emboar would be Fire/Dark. That would have been incredibly awesome to me from a conceptual standpoint. Needless to say, I was disappointed at yet another Fire/Fighting fire starter

I would love the next generation to have either of these; Water/Flying, Fire/Ground and perhaps Grass/Fighting.
 
I never had a problem with the Fire/Fighting starter combo. It's pretty awesome. People just want to complain and whine about everything. I'm more disappointed that Samurott and Serperior didn't get sub-types. Apparently, it's okay for them to be single types when we already had 2 pure grass and pure water starters. ._.
 
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