Mafia Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 31st -- Endgame -- Mafia Victory!

[Midorikawa]

Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

Beck claimed there was more to his role, so its possible both are the same, and Forgotten works as another miller and that as Human pointed out, we most likely have a town rolecop. the normal roles seem to be reversed, or at least normal mafia roles are town roles in a sense.

 

[Beck]

Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

I did say maybe. If that is true well sorry to you Beck, would've been a great plan. But what did you want me to do, let Beck fly under the radar as a trusted townie until I was lynched?

I wasn't trusting of Beck in the first place. This just makes me more confident about his alignment.

It's not a plan, it's the honest truth. If I were Mafia, I wouldn't have drawn this much attention to myself. Especially when I know that I could have shaken the suspicion from me without claiming. It was entirely unprompted and it makes sense after Soulmaster had flipped Town Godfather. I would be more inclined to believe you if you weren't claiming Town Strongman as well. But I cant believe that Nick would play two Town Strongman/Miller-like roles. I have admitted that I'm not just a Vanilla Townie like Soulmaster was, but even then, I doubt a Vanilla Town Strongman and a Power Role Town Strongman are together in one game. That's three Town roles in place to confuse a potential RoleCop. Especially when there's a likely a Mafia Strongman at play.

UNVOTE: Beck
VOTE: Forgotten

You're lying. I don't have the slightest clue why you would claim if you're Mafia, which makes me want to believe you, but I can't believe that there are two Town Strongmans. One of us has to go, and it won't be me.

 

[Hippowdon]

Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

whoa whoa whoa why don't we just calm down, beck I didn't know you were this much of a lose cannon dude you've lost it!

 

[Paperhorse]

Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

whoa whoa whoa why don't we just calm down, beck I didn't know you were this much of a lose cannon dude you've lost it!

All he is doing is presenting his argument, I wouldn't call him a loose cannon. Honestly I'm getting town vibes from both of you so I'm rather confused.

Also, why did we skip one day and one night?

 

[GastlyGibus]

Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

I promised answers, you asked for them, well, here they are.

First off, to briefly explain my actions from the first day phase, I already mentioned it before (and I give props to Midori for correctly noticing that they were so against my normal behavior). I don't want to sound like some kind of evil mastermind, because it's not like I was trying to fool anybody, but I specifically decided to go against my normal play-style to provoke discussion. I've seen far too many first day-phases go several posts in without any meaningful discussion, just nothing but joke votes and gags. I've been guilty of that too, myself. So this game, since we have such a large amount of players, I wanted to kick things off right at the start.

So I voted for HumanDawn. The intention was to place a vote on an experienced player with no reasoning to stir up discussion. It worked, but only partially, and not with the result I had intended. So I decided to step up my game, and go completely against my usual "meta" (see, this is how easily meta is abused, people. xD) My actions up until the end were meant to provoke discussion, and I do think they accomplished that purpose. I'm not claiming sole responsibility or trying to seem like I'm really smart or something (honestly, I'm not smart, lol), but that was the intention for my behavior thus far. Now that we're much farther along in the game, I'll be more like my "usual" self.

So anyways, now we have ourselves a fun little dilemma. It seems Beck and Forgotten have conflicting roles. I didn't trust Beck's claim to begin with, and I certainly don't trust it now. As for why I voted Beck last phase? Well, at first I was suspicious of his reasoning against Soulmaster. It seemed kind of ... desperate? Frankly, I'll be honest, I had no better targets at the moment. My vote against CrackFox was, as mentioned earlier, an attempt to provoke discussion. I am satisfied with her posts so far. Not enough to be 100% convinced she's town, but enough to not pursue her at the moment.

Anyways, as the discussion continued, unfortunately, I was too busy to really offer my thoughts. I wish I could give some kind of physical evidence for that, but I can't. I read along with the thread on my phone from time to time, but I couldn't post under the circumstances.

Now, see, this is why I don't trust Beck, especially now that Soulmaster has flipped town.

Exactly. Soulmaster has only 6/22 votes, with another full day to play. There's more than enough room to change our minds.

As the votes began to turn towards Soulmaster, and some people began to question it, Beck, out of the goodness of his heart, decided to remind us that the decision wasn't final. We could just change our minds, if we really wanted to. I mean, it would be a real shame if we lynched Soulmaster and he flipped town, wouldn't it?

And then this.

Echoing Mew's sentiments. I would appreciate everyone else's reads on Soulmaster. Seems unlikely at this point, but if you can fit it into the next half hour, that would be great.

It's like... it's like he's trying to very, very subtly make it seem like he's against the lynch and deny responsibility. As if he's trying to make it seem like he's not sure on Soulmaster's alignment, so he's asking for someone to say something else. And yet, he keeps his vote on him. I mean, asking for other opinions thirty minutes before the phase update? Do you honestly expect, in thirty minutes, for someone to bring up a suitable case and drag enough votes off of Soulmaster in that time period?

I don't like it. It seems to me like he's trying to play the "Well, I'm not really sure" card and make it seem like some kind of honest mistake when Soulmaster flipped town. His reasoning against SM was already shaky to begin with, and even despite his assurance that the votes weren't permanent and his near begging for someone to say something else, he kept his vote. If you weren't so sure, why keep your vote?

And then he claims - with no prompting or prodding whatsoever - a very dubious role. Why? Why claim now? Did the two votes on you honestly scare you so much that you had to claim? He peppers his post with pretty language to make him seem so innocent, like "I doubt this will make anyone less suspicious of me" and "You don't have to believe my claim," which just doesn't strike me well. At all. Stating that a claim is suspicious does not make it any less suspicious because you pointed it out. If anything, it makes it more suspicious. And then he adds that lovely little bit at the end: "I would also be wary of other players claiming similar roles moving forward." Conveniently enough, as Forgotten counter-claims very quickly afterwards.

Not to mention, he won't even tell us what it does. His actions so far give me no reason whatsoever to believe he's town, and with Forgotten counter-claim, I'm more than willing to believe he's mafia.

Unvote: GastlyGibus
Vote: Beck

 

[HumanDawn]

Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

Phoenicks, can we talk to Gliscorman privately?

Unless Forgotten is a Fool(which I doubt) I don't see any motive in what he's doing if he's Mafia, Beck has even claimed an additional role he could use in the Night so there's maybe something he could prove too. If this was some WIFOM plan I don't know if Forgotten would even agree to it so I trust Forgotten, but I also trust Beck who I trust a lot more, so this is pretty conflicting. Even if this whole situation doesn't make that much sense to me for either party I agree it would be easier to settle it now.

I think I can understand why Beck would say what he said and why he said it; it reminds me of when Phoenicks claimed Miller Night 1 in Super Paper Mario Mafia, and I think I'd have done the same thing, but I'll wait on a reply from him to try developing a better read.

 

[Beck]

Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

I promised answers, you asked for them, well, here they are.

First off, to briefly explain my actions from the first day phase, I already mentioned it before (and I give props to Midori for correctly noticing that they were so against my normal behavior). I don't want to sound like some kind of evil mastermind, because it's not like I was trying to fool anybody, but I specifically decided to go against my normal play-style to provoke discussion. I've seen far too many first day-phases go several posts in without any meaningful discussion, just nothing but joke votes and gags. I've been guilty of that too, myself. So this game, since we have such a large amount of players, I wanted to kick things off right at the start.

So I voted for HumanDawn. The intention was to place a vote on an experienced player with no reasoning to stir up discussion. It worked, but only partially, and not with the result I had intended. So I decided to step up my game, and go completely against my usual "meta" (see, this is how easily meta is abused, people. xD) My actions up until the end were meant to provoke discussion, and I do think they accomplished that purpose. I'm not claiming sole responsibility or trying to seem like I'm really smart or something (honestly, I'm not smart, lol), but that was the intention for my behavior thus far. Now that we're much farther along in the game, I'll be more like my "usual" self.

Understandable.

So anyways, now we have ourselves a fun little dilemma. It seems Beck and Forgotten have conflicting roles. I didn't trust Beck's claim to begin with, and I certainly don't trust it now. As for why I voted Beck last phase? Well, at first I was suspicious of his reasoning against Soulmaster. It seemed kind of ... desperate? Frankly, I'll be honest, I had no better targets at the moment. My vote against CrackFox was, as mentioned earlier, an attempt to provoke discussion. I am satisfied with her posts so far. Not enough to be 100% convinced she's town, but enough to not pursue her at the moment.

In what way is this desperate? More specifically, the latter most part of the post, where I confront his vote against UM. And my vote was desperate, but yours against me? You even just said that you "had no better target at the moment." How is that any less desperate?

Anyways, as the discussion continued, unfortunately, I was too busy to really offer my thoughts. I wish I could give some kind of physical evidence for that, but I can't. I read along with the thread on my phone from time to time, but I couldn't post under the circumstances.

Now, see, this is why I don't trust Beck, especially now that Soulmaster has flipped town.

But you're correct. I'm not denying the fact that I didn't know. I didn't 100% believe that he was Mafia, but I did believe that he was our best option under the circumstance. Call me guilty for my playstyle, but it's always better to lynch on Day One, and yesterday was no different. Soulmaster was the sacrificial lamb, as far as I'm concerned. Nothing personal, obviously, but if we hadn't lynched then yesterday would have effectively been a waste. I picked the lesser of two evils.

As the votes began to turn towards Soulmaster, and some people began to question it, Beck, out of the goodness of his heart, decided to remind us that the decision wasn't final. We could just change our minds, if we really wanted to. I mean, it would be a real shame if we lynched Soulmaster and he flipped town, wouldn't it?

It would. And if anyone had a better option, I would have considered changing my vote. But nobody did.

And then this.

Echoing Mew's sentiments. I would appreciate everyone else's reads on Soulmaster. Seems unlikely at this point, but if you can fit it into the next half hour, that would be great.

It's like... it's like he's trying to very, very subtly make it seem like he's against the lynch and deny responsibility. As if he's trying to make it seem like he's not sure on Soulmaster's alignment, so he's asking for someone to say something else. And yet, he keeps his vote on him. I mean, asking for other opinions thirty minutes before the phase update? Do you honestly expect, in thirty minutes, for someone to bring up a suitable case and drag enough votes off of Soulmaster in that time period?

For the record, you sound like a prosecutor, I love it. "Here I present to you Evidence A. And Evidence B!"

Anyway. Yes, I agree that the post was a bit late to be effective, but better late than never, right? I never want to intentionally lynch an innocent, but I (and MasterMew) gave every opportunity for others to change our minds. I mean, even you had the chance, but you were nowhere to be found. You can't not provide us an ultimatum and then argue that we were acting vindictively. It's not fair.

I don't like it. It seems to me like he's trying to play the "Well, I'm not really sure" card and make it seem like some kind of honest mistake when Soulmaster flipped town. His reasoning against SM was already shaky to begin with, and even despite his assurance that the votes weren't permanent and his near begging for someone to say something else, he kept his vote. If you weren't so sure, why keep your vote?

Because what was my other option? Vote for the Mafia? None of us (yes, none of us, not one) knew who was actually guilty. Had I known, trust me, I would have changed my vote. I went with my gut. And I didn't waver, like others. I felt I was appropriately confident in my decision.

And then he claims - with no prompting or prodding whatsoever - a very dubious role. Why? Why claim now? Did the two votes on you honestly scare you so much that you had to claim? He peppers his post with pretty language to make him seem so innocent, like "I doubt this will make anyone less suspicious of me" and "You don't have to believe my claim," which just doesn't strike me well. At all. Stating that a claim is suspicious does not make it any less suspicious because you pointed it out. If anything, it makes it more suspicious. And then he adds that lovely little bit at the end: "I would also be wary of other players claiming similar roles moving forward." Conveniently enough, as Forgotten counter-claims very quickly afterwards.

See my response to HumanDawn's post, below.

Not to mention, he won't even tell us what it does. His actions so far give me no reason whatsoever to believe he's town, and with Forgotten counter-claim, I'm more than willing to believe he's mafia.

Unvote: GastlyGibus
Vote: Beck

Because it doesn't (or at least, shouldn't) matter.

Phoenicks, can we talk to Gliscorman privately?

Unless Forgotten is a Fool(which I doubt) I don't see any motive in what he's doing if he's Mafia, Beck has even claimed an additional role he could use in the Night so there's maybe something he could prove too. If this was some WIFOM plan I don't know if Forgotten would even agree to it so I trust Forgotten, but I also trust Beck who I trust a lot more, so this is pretty conflicting. Even if this whole situation doesn't make that much sense to me for either party I agree it would be easier to settle it now.

I think I can understand why Beck would say what he said and why he said it; it reminds me of when Phoenicks claimed Miller Night 1 in Super Paper Mario Mafia, and I think I'd have done the same thing, but I'll wait on a reply from him to try developing a better read.

You're correct, I did my best to emulate Nick in that moment. I wouldn't have claimed on Day One, lest I wanted to be lynched, but I had to claim right away, lest I wanted to waste another player's Night Action. That is why my claim was unprompted. But Soulmaster's role added validity to mine, I felt, so the decision to claim felt right, too. You don't need to trust it, just know that Forgotten is lying.

 

[HumanDawn]

Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

I read Gliscorman's Role PM again and he can get PMs.

UNVOTE: HumanDawn
VOTE: Forgotten

I've been talking with Beck privately and I've grown to trust him more, and while I still can't make much sense of why would Forgotten out as a Town Strongman to get Beck mislynched, I still trust Beck more. We could consider a million possibilities but we could keep on beating around the bush forever about it, and I think no matter the outcome we'll get Mafia. If Forgotten ends up Town, if there's a Vigilante out there, they could kill Beck and it could help clear them.

 

[Mijzelffan]

Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

unvote: mijzelffan
vote: beck

I don't see why forgotten would fakely counterclaim such a useless role unless they're speaking the truth. Say Forgotten is mafia, there's just no point in counterclaiming what's practically a miller. At best you kill one of the most useless roles in the game and die right after, at worst you get lynched and the miller gets confirmed innocent. Forgotten is most likely speaking the truth.

 

[Beck]

Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

unvote: mijzelffan
vote: beck

I don't see why forgotten would fakely counterclaim such a useless role unless they're speaking the truth. Say Forgotten is mafia, there's just no point in counterclaiming what's practically a miller. At best you kill one of the most useless roles in the game and die right after, at worst you get lynched and the miller gets confirmed innocent. Forgotten is most likely speaking the truth.

How is my unprompted roleclaim more suspicious?

EDIT: I saw your edit, and I can't agree more. It makes absolutely no sense.

But I wouldn't have claimed prematurely, trust me.

I think it's most likely that Forgotten is a Mafioso playing the shortgame, or he's a Lyncher, and I'm his Lynchee. The latter is unlikely, because I don't think there are any Third Party roles, but it's a possibility.

 

[Mijzelffan]

Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

Well right after a town godfather dies would be a pretty good moment for a mafia strongman to claim town strongman among the same lines. I mean it's a pretty weird role and you couldn't have seen coming there might actually be one. I doubt people would've lynched you if Forgotten hadn't counterclaimed.

 

[Phoenicks]

Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

Friendly reminder that I will extend phases if enough people request such.

Edit: This is at host's discretion. I would, for instance, push a phase back if crucial players needed to be subbed out. Check the rules for an example.

 

[Midorikawa]

Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

UNVOTE: Paperhorse
VOTE: Beck


Telling us to trust you won't make us trust you

In seriousness, Gibes makes some good points, and Forgotten claiming makes no sense, and I doubt his mafia buddies would have him do it either. This early in the game losing mafia members is extremely detrimental. In Beck's case however its a good opportunity, and he claimed more to his role, which could easily be a mafia vig kill. In other words, his is the more riskier role to be alive. Even if he's town, it could easily hit town and hurt them.

 

[Beck]

Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

UNVOTE: Paperhorse
VOTE: Beck


Telling us to trust you won't make us trust you

In seriousness, Gibes makes some good points, and Forgotten claiming makes no sense, and I doubt his mafia buddies would have him do it either. This early in the game losing mafia members is extremely detrimental. In Beck's case however its a good opportunity, and he claimed more to his role, which could easily be a mafia vig kill. In other words, his is the more riskier role to be alive. Even if he's town, it could easily hit town and hurt them.

Could I ask for your opinion on my defense? I answered to every single point of his.

And if it's reassuring to anyone, my Night Action is not a Night Kill. I never said it was.

 

[HumanDawn]

Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

Even if he's town, it could easily hit town and hurt them.

So if you were a Vigilante about to be lynched and somebody said "Oh well, your role could easily hurt the Town if it picks the wrong person if you were telling the truth anyway." you wouldn't say anything back to defend yourself about how ridiculously faulty that logic is? Isn't that almost like saying that almost whatever role somebody has, if it could somehow hurt the Town, it doesn't matter because it could be harmful? Also it's very nice of you to invalidate if he is a Vigilante he could just be a Mafia one anyway.

 

[Hippowdon]

Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

What I am afraid of is beck's claimed extra power being a sort of bomb ability or a similar power so I think ill be holding off voting him until something proving me wrong happens.

 

[Parma]

Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

@Phoenicks; I'd like to be subbed out.

 

[Beck]

Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

Friendly reminder that I will extend phases if enough people request such.

How exactly does this work? Is there a formal process, or do you just gauge the activity of the thread and make a Host decision?

 

[Paperhorse]

Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

I promised answers, you asked for them, well, here they are.

First off, to briefly explain my actions from the first day phase, I already mentioned it before (and I give props to Midori for correctly noticing that they were so against my normal behavior). I don't want to sound like some kind of evil mastermind, because it's not like I was trying to fool anybody, but I specifically decided to go against my normal play-style to provoke discussion. I've seen far too many first day-phases go several posts in without any meaningful discussion, just nothing but joke votes and gags. I've been guilty of that too, myself. So this game, since we have such a large amount of players, I wanted to kick things off right at the start.

....Wait so that's it? You went against your normal play style? Tbh, I'm disappointed, I thought you had vital information or something

There seems to be a lot more going on here than just two strongman claims. I don't know why everyone is just hung up on that when there are other important questions that we need addressed. It would be a waste of a phase if all we talked about was whether to lynch Beck or Forgotten.

Questions that I have are: why did we skip one day and one night phase?!? Is no one else concerned about this? Does anyone have any information about this at all?

Why was Gliscorman targeted for the night kill? We have a great opportunity here: we can actually ask the dead why he thinks he might have been a target. Who was he talking to before he died?

I think Gliscorman should collect all our claims before he dies. He can provide us with some valuable information that we can use.

 

[Phoenicks]

Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

@Flipgbh; is replacing Parma.