My Observations of BMGf over the Years

[Tina]

for example I was unfairly banned by Chosen of Mana from the IRC Chat

...Um, the IRC channel =/= the forums. Huge huge difference. That's.. all I have to say on this matter for now..

 

[snorlaxzilla]

...Um, the IRC channel =/= the forums. Huge huge difference. That's.. all I have to say on this matter for now..

Hey, I have acuzin named tina.

 

[Geoffrey]

I'd really prefer if we didn't have a public discussion of who's banned and who's not, and which moderators suck, and why, and people's opinions on that, just an aside. I understand and respect your concerns with moderators but I don't want to turn this issue, which stretches beyond two staff members and a banned user, into a weighing of each individual as community members. The problems, if there are any, are systemic, not isolated, or at least exist in more than three places.

I understand the banning thing and that's not really what I'm focusing on. But why can't this be public about the mods? It's not like I'm going to tar and feather them, I just want something done about it and others should express their opinion about it as well. Silencing people won't help and only proves that BMGf is turning into another SPPf. You also did not address my concerns about immunity.

Can you please estate the names of the people complaining and why are you the one talking about this and not them?

Why does that matter? I simply agree with them because I have noticed it as well. If they wish to make themselves known, they may do so, but it is not my place to disclose the names of these people. It's not like I'm speaking on their behalf, I'm doing it for myself mostly.

As for the Habunake banning, he was permabanned as a decision of most of the staff, with just one person disagreeing. Dogasu never carried anything away like you seem to believe.

I'm just saying that it's pretty hypocritical to permaban someone when the person who permabanned doesn't follow the rules either.

And what's all this stuff about Scott85? Maybe I've been too bling, but I don't think he has personally attacked anyone in the forums.

I wasn't making an accusation against him, but I've been told by several staff members that he has immunity to infractions because the staff wants him around, and I find it quite unfair to allow someone to do whatever they want purely because of the staff's personal bias.

 

[evkl]

I know you don't want to start a public lynching of some mods, but typically that's where these discussions go, and I'm not a huge fan of those. Again, not that I don't want transparency, but I think the problems you're citing might run deeper than two people.

 

[Satoshi-chan]

I've heard complaints about Unown Lord in the past myself. Fortunately I don't post in the same areas that he does, but I have heard complaints about his attitude toward users. But since we do have the new rule in effect, that should cut down on some of the issues that we did previously have, and I always urge people to report posts if they have a serious enough problem with what was said to them in a thread.

 

[Geoffrey]

As I said before, I just want something done about this and the immunity issue. If I have to fear that a staff member might attack me for expressing my opinion, then there is something very wrong. At least it hasn't gotten to the point where the staff infracts those who disagree, but it's getting pretty damn close.

 

[Silktree]

Certain members of the staff, such as Dogasu and Unown Lord (yes, I realize he's not a mod of the forums, but he is a mod of Bulbapedia, which makes him a part of the staff), have made attacks towards certain people or bash or act extremely rude towards people with differing opinions.

I can accept being called arrogant and condescending; if I receive useful criticism that does not stem from obvious pettiness and unnecessary rage, I take it to heart and bear it in mind. But for some reason you feel the need to go as far as to accuse me of bashing other members, using sockpuppet accounts and generally posting in a manner that warrants infractions. I cannot take that sort of attitude seriously.

You may not like the manner in which I choose to conduct myself in discussions with others, but it is very much within the realms of acceptable behavior. It is just a question of how likable I come across to the other members, which is solely my own problem. This is not a matter to be discussed publicly.

 

[Geoffrey]

I can accept being called arrogant and condescending; if I receive useful criticism that does not stem from obvious pettiness and unnecessary rage, I take it to heart and bear it in mind.

For some reason, I find that highly unbelievable since you usually shoot down anyone's opinion that you don't like.

But for some reason you feel the need to go as far as to accuse me of bashing other members, using sockpuppet accounts and generally posting in a manner that warrants infractions. I cannot take that sort of attitude seriously.

Why not? Because what I said is true?

You may not like the manner in which I choose to conduct myself in discussions with others, but it is very much within the realms of acceptable behavior.

I, as well as several others, would disagree.

This is not a matter to be discussed publicly.

I feel it should be since a lot of people are frustrated with the way you talk to them.

 

[Silktree]

For some reason, I find that highly unbelievable since you usually shoot down anyone's opinion that you don't like.

That is your own interpretation of the events. Apparently, when you don't like a person's opinion, you suggest that that person be banned and act very melodramatic about it.

Why not? Because what I said is true?

It is not true. Your saying otherwise does not change that fact.

I, as well as several others, would disagree.

The only people who have ever commented on my presentation either did so nicely and recommended that I tone down my confidence, or were rude, aggressive and hypocritical. There may be a wider spectrum of opinions out there, but those people have never approached me. I suspect that they largely don't care.

If you think that we are supposed to take your word that you represent multiple members, think again. You need to substantiate your claims if you wish to be taken seriously.

 

[Geoffrey]

That is your own interpretation of the events. Apparently, when you don't like a person's opinion, you suggest that that person be banned and act very melodramatic about it.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. I have not once said that you should be banned, nor am I being melodramatic. If someone were to disagree with me, I would ask why and listen in a mature manner instead of completely ignore them or attack them like you do.

It is not true. Your saying otherwise does not change that fact.

That's my line. It is true. I know that you've used sockpuppet accounts in SPPf to troll certain users, and your "style" of debating could be considered bashing by the general populace. If you want me to carry this on, I will, but that's solely up to you.

The only people who have ever commented on my presentation either did so nicely and recommended that I tone down my confidence, or were rude, aggressive and hypocritical. There may be a wider spectrum of opinions out there, but those people have never approached me. I suspect that they largely don't care.

It's more like you don't care really. Either that, or they're too scared to speak out against you because of your "friends". This is mostly why not many people are assisting me with this.

If you think that we are supposed to take your word that you represent multiple members, think again. You need to substantiate your claims if you wish to be taken seriously.

As I said, they're too scared of you and your allies attacking them. But you're just not taking me seriously because I'm speaking out against you, right?

 

[The Outrage]

Allies? I'm curious as to who they are.

Anyway, there is an ignore list. I don't find Unown Lord that annoying and tend to be able to ignore him without the aid of an ignore list when one of these Unown Lord vs User rants happen, like right now.

THe only thing that bothers me really is how you can't get another topic going when that happens. However I have seen instances of *supposed* mod power abuse, but I'll just put it aside to a mod doing her job and the person she happens to be enforcing the rules on is someone she doesn't like.

 

[Nando]

Because Kasumi asked, I am stepping forth as one of the people Geoff is citing. I have lodged plenty of complaint against Unown Lord.

I can also attest to being personally told Scott85 was being let off (albeit some time ago) because he was "good for a laugh" or some such. I'm not naming names publicly, but I was told this by a mod and I'm not the only one aware this statement was made.

 

[Silktree]

This is exactly what I'm talking about. I have not once said that you should be banned, nor am I being melodramatic. If someone were to disagree with me, I would ask why and listen in a mature manner instead of completely ignore them or attack them like you do. If someone were to disagree with me, I would ask why and listen in a mature manner instead of completely ignore them or attack them like you do.

How precisely did your recent posts encourage such a level of understanding, prey tell?

Also, a word of advice to those who are getting constantly annoyed by Unown Lord: just put him on your ignore list. Considering that his ratio of being correct to being incorrect is astoundingly low, he almost always words his opinions as forceful facts, and he believes that the internet is a game, there's really no point in listening to him.

You can't seriously blame me for deciding to put you on my ignore list after that lovely display of open-mindedness.

I know that you've used sockpuppet accounts in SPPf to troll certain users,

You are referring to my using an alternate account on a different forum for the purpose of communicating a message to Habunake, who also goes by a different name on that forum. Your spin on events is so much more interesting, though.

and your "style" of debating could be considered bashing by the general populace. If you want me to carry this on, I will, but that's solely up to you.

Is that supposed to be a threat? I do not see how my debate style can be construed as bashing; there is a fine line between being annoying or unlikable and being inflammatory.

It's more like you don't care really. Either that, or they're too scared to speak out against you because of your "friends". This is mostly why not many people are assisting me with this.

Which friends would those be? I am an administrator on Bulbapedia, which is not interchangeable with this forum. I am completely independent and isolated from the other staff members.

As I said, they're too scared of you and your allies attacking them. But you're just not taking me seriously because I'm speaking out against you, right?

Your spin on events makes for fine journalism on the corrupted community that is Bulbagarden. It is hard to swallow that you are being serious about this.

 

[Geoffrey]

Allies? I'm curious as to who they are.

I'm curious as to why you just suddenly came when I mentioned so.

Anyway, there is an ignore list. I don't find Unown Lord that annoying and tend to be able to ignore him without the aid of an ignore list when one of these Unown Lord vs User rants happen, like right now.

Then why don't you go do that? People really shouldn't be expected to ignore BMG's own staff though, nor should they expect to be attacked by said staff.

 

[The Outrage]

I'm curious as to why you just suddenly came when I mentioned so.

Curiosity because I've never really seen anyone come to Unown lord's aid and "bash" others in a way that would make them scared of fighting back, unless you mean Ling Ling, hence my curiosity.

Of course that statement makes me wonder if you are implying I am this so-called ally, though I am usually just paranoid aswell.

Then why don't you go do that? People really shouldn't be expected to ignore BMG's own staff though, nor should they expect to be attacked by said staff.

Do that to whom? No one who posted in this thread really bothers me, and as you've mentioned, though Unown Lord is a staff member of Bulbagarden, he has no real power on the forums other than having his names in itallics. Ignoring him isn't really going to hurt anyone.

Also 17 people. That's how many are on my ignore list, more if I didn't unignore everyone I had on a couple months ago.

 

[Geoffrey]

Because Kasumi asked, I am stepping forth as one of the people Geoff is citing. I have lodged plenty of complaint against Unown Lord.

I can also attest to being personally told Scott85 was being let off (albeit some time ago) because he was "good for a laugh" or some such. I'm not naming names publicly, but I was told this by a mod and I'm not the only one aware this statement was made.

Thank you Nando. I greatly appreciate you "substantiating" my claims.

You can't seriously blame me for deciding to put you on my ignore list after that lovely display of open-mindedness.

No, I don't blame you as that is your right to do so. Just like it is my right to file a complaint on you as well.

You are referring to my using an alternate account on a different forum for the purpose of communicating a message to Habunake, who also goes by a different name on that forum. Your spin on events is so much more interesting, though.

Because it's true? You don't normally need to use a sockpuppet account just to send a simple message.

I do not see how my debate style can be construed as bashing; there is a fine line between being annoying or unlikable and being inflammatory.

Unfortunately, annoying and being unlikable to users can sometimes mean that you're being disrespectful to them, as is currently the case.

Which friends would those be? I am an administrator on Bulbapedia, which is not interchangeable with this forum. I am completely independent and isolated from the other staff members.

I wouldn't know. They're your friends after all.

Your spin on events makes for fine journalism on the corrupted community that is Bulbagarden. It is hard to swallow that you are being serious about this.

Because you don't wish to believe me. But I am being quite serious.

Curiosity because I've never really seen anyone come to Unown lord's aid and "bash" others in a way that would make them scared of fighting back, unless you mean Ling Ling, hence my curiosity.

Of course that statement makes me wonder if you are implying I am this so-called ally, though I am usually just paranoid aswell.

If you really wish to know, I was told by someone that you assisted Unown Lord in bashing this person, and no, I am not telling you who.

Do that to whom?

I meant ignore it like you said you usually do.

No one who posted in this thread really bothers me, and as you've mentioned, though Unown Lord is a staff member of Bulbagarden, he has no real power on the forums other than having his names in itallics. Ignoring him isn't really going to hurt anyone.

As I said before, it's disturbing that certain staff members aren't following rules. And aren't you normally supposed to not ignore staff members?

 

[The Outrage]

As I said before, it's disturbing that certain staff members aren't following rules. And aren't you normally supposed to not ignore staff members?

Disturbing, yes, but your also supposed to not get into "flamewars" with staff members which is where most Unown lord versus User rants end up (kind of) so why not?

 

[Kasumi]

Why does that matter? I simply agree with them because I have noticed it as well. If they wish to make themselves known, they may do so, but it is not my place to disclose the names of these people. It's not like I'm speaking on their behalf, I'm doing it for myself mostly.

Fine, but if these people are so upset with the way we're handling things around, they should have spoken here, instead of complaining to other people.

I'm just saying that it's pretty hypocritical to permaban someone when the person who permabanned doesn't follow the rules either.

Huh? And who exactly permabanned him? It was a group decision and it just so happens that the one who gave him his last infraction; the same that caused the decision to permaban him, was me; so please tell me when I haven't followed the rules in Bulbagarden.

I wasn't making an accusation against him, but I've been told by several staff members that he has immunity to infractions because the staff wants him around, and I find it quite unfair to allow someone to do whatever they want purely because of the staff's personal bias.

Several staff members? Inmunity to infractions? You have to be kidding me. If he doesn't have any infractions, it is because he hasn't done anything to receive one.

If we really were as unfair and biased as you're pointing out, you would have been banned or infracted and this thread would have been deleted the minute you posted it.

 

[Geoffrey]

Disturbing, yes, but your also supposed to not get into "flamewars" with staff members which is where most Unown lord versus User rants end up (kind of) so why not?

I'm not flaming him, I just want something done about his attitude towards others.

Fine, but if these people are so upset with the way we're handling things around, they should have spoken here, instead of complaining to other people.

As I've already pointed out, they're too scared to do so because they're afraid of being attacked or infracted for speaking out against a staff member.

Huh? And who exactly permabanned him? It was a group decision and it just so happens that the one who gave him his last infraction; the same that caused the decision to permaban him, was me; so please tell me when I haven't followed the rules in Bulbagarden.

Dogasu stated that it was him that recommended that Habunake be permabanned. Like I said, this isn't important to me, but I find it quite alarming that Habunake, who really hasn't commited any serious infractions (except for one maybe), was permabanned, and yet we have even worse users who are still roaming around this forum.

Several staff members? Inmunity to infractions? You have to be kidding me. If he doesn't have any infractions, it is because he hasn't done anything to receive one.

Why would I be kidding if I mentioned that staff members have told me and another person has corroborated with my claim? Do you honestly think that I'm pulling all of this out of my ass?

If we really were as unfair and biased as you're pointing out, you would have been banned or infracted and this thread would have been deleted the minute you posted it.

Quite strange, isn't it?

 

[The Outrage]

I'm not flaming him, I just want something done about his attitude towards others.

I wasn't saying you exactly, but more like with other people, though I usually tune out by then because I don't really care.