Pokemon Legends: Arceus General Discussion

[Silktree]

Yea but notice that all the new evolutions are not the same element, implying it could be a regional variant that evolves instead.

We only have two and they just gained secondary types. I don't dispute that they're "special", but regional?

 

[NealIRC]

We only have two and they just gained secondary types. I don't dispute that they're "special", but regional?

Right, to avoid the Eviolite conundrum. So their regionals evolve, not the original.

 

[Oriden]

Right, to avoid the Eviolite conundrum. So their regionals evolve, not the original.

I don't think there's really any conundrum around eviolite.

 

[NealIRC]

I don't think there's really any conundrum around eviolite.

Okay, Eviolite conundrum is the term Serebii used. The term I'd use is Eviolite contradiction.

 

[Blast]

Wouldn't get too hyped, Pokemon doesn't often feature in Nintendo Directs.

Agreed. At most I'm expecting one or two Hisuian forms revealed, but it's very likely we'll get nothing or recycled trailer footage not showing anything new.

 

[Silktree]

Okay, Eviolite conundrum is the term Serebii used. The term I'd use is Eviolite contradiction.

I don't buy that theory (that Game Freak don't want to retcon an item when they don't mind retconning types, abilities, stats and even some other items), but an era evolution wouldn't contradict Evolite. The item most likely doesn't exist in this game (if any held items do), and as far as the modern Pokemon world is concerned, a Pokemon that has lost the ability to evolve (at least in known regions) should benefit from Evolite. It's probably a psychological effect more than a DNA test.

 

[Joker901]

Agreed. At most I'm expecting one or two Hisuian forms revealed, but it's very likely we'll get nothing or recycled trailer footage not showing anything new.

Considering this direct focuses on games that will release this winter, I wouldn't exclude pokemon games being in it, BDSP in particular. It's actually not uncommon for Pokemon to release new info during September Nintendo directs.
We also know very few details about Legends and that's a brand new game for TPCi, so I think it's very important to let people understand some new aspects of the game as soon as possible in order to boost pre-orders and sales. If nothing is shown during this direct, I expect news anyway in the next few days (maybe September 28th? - 4 months from Arceus and D/P annyversary).

 

[Jimothy]

You two seem to be talking about different things, Silktree is just saying that the term shouldn't be "regional" evolution since Hisui is just Sinnoh, and the issue is more the time period-- hence their saying "era" evolutions. I do think they called them regional evolutions in the last Presents though? If I recall. And the way they seem to be getting around that is by calling the region Hisui instead of Sinnoh; Hisui is a new region to us.

I absolutely do believe that the Eviolite is a problem for Gamefreak-- it's right in line with their stupid incense thing so the logic of new babies works for them. I wish they would just do away with all of it and retcon game mechanics and you never know, sometimes they do, like in the case of Leafeon/Glaceon this gen. But this is also the gen where they made a new Farfetch'd variant when they didn't have to, so I don't know what's the deciding factor for them on which mechanics are good to retcon and which aren't. Like what's the tipping point?

This being the same gen as that Farfetch'd variant, I definitely do think that they're still going to be requiring new evolutions to be based on new forms. And you can see it in Basculegion-- it has traits of both known Basculin variants, which to me implies that we may be seeing a new Basculin, before its traits selected out into the two variants we know today.

 

[Oriden]

You two seem to be talking about different things, Silktree is just saying that the term shouldn't be "regional" evolution since Hisui is just Sinnoh, and the issue is more the time period-- hence their saying "era" evolutions. I do think they called them regional evolutions in the last Presents though? If I recall. And the way they seem to be getting around that is by calling the region Hisui instead of Sinnoh; Hisui is a new region to us.

I absolutely do believe that the Eviolite is a problem for Gamefreak-- it's right in line with their stupid incense thing so the logic of new babies works for them. I wish they would just do away with all of it and retcon game mechanics and you never know, sometimes they do, like in the case of Leafeon/Glaceon this gen. But this is also the gen where they made a new Farfetch'd variant when they didn't have to, so I don't know what's the deciding factor for them on which mechanics are good to retcon and which aren't. Like what's the tipping point?

This being the same gen as that Farfetch'd variant, I definitely do think that they're still going to be requiring new evolutions to be based on new forms. And you can see it in Basculegion-- it has traits of both known Basculin variants, which to me implies that we may be seeing a new Basculin, before its traits selected out into the two variants we know today.

There was a point to Galarian Farfetch'd, though, so I don't think that was so much for the sake of avoiding a retcon as it was just "Hey let's make a Farfetch'd with an actual spring onion since y'all keep mistaking the leek for one."

 

[Kallyle]

I'd call them era evolutions, but they should really confirm that. Suffice to say that Stantler couldn't evolve in DPPt.

Yea but notice that all the new evolutions are not the same element, implying it could be a regional variant that evolves instead.

We only have two and they just gained secondary types. I don't dispute that they're "special", but regional?

I don't buy that theory (that Game Freak don't want to retcon an item when they don't mind retconning types, abilities, stats and even some other items), but an era evolution wouldn't contradict Evolite. The item most likely doesn't exist in this game (if any held items do), and as far as the modern Pokemon world is concerned, a Pokemon that has lost the ability to evolve (at least in known regions) should benefit from Evolite. It's probably a psychological effect more than a DNA test.

They could easily get away with basic Stantler having a regional evolution as long as its trigger involves an actual Hisuan variant like Hisuian Braviary. The fact that it doesn't happen anymore can easily be explained by the lack of said variant in the environments Stantler currently inhabit. I mean, Pokémon evolving because of other species is nothing new to the franchise, whether in terms of lore or gameplay:

• Shellder evolving Slowpoke into Slowbro/Slowking
• Remoraid evolving Mantyke into Mantine
• Karrablast and Shelmet causing each other to evolve into Escavalier and Accelgor respectively

Given this logic, why can't a regional variant trigger a regional evolution in another Pokémon?

 

[Joker901]

Guys, they could simply justify new evolutions in the most logical way. Sinnoh is no more dangerous as it was in the past, so some pokemon didn't need evolutions anymore to protect themselves. This is how natural evolution works. One day humans will lose pinky toes because they won't need them anymore. In the same way, Stantler will lose its evolution because it won't need it anymore in a friendly environment.

 

[Oriden]

I don't see why "regional evolution" couldn't be part of them trying to cut back on having to add new evolution methods into the games, either. Like... "Oh it only evolves in this region and every region after it" is sufficient enough to dodge a retcon without having to add anything that they'll then have to remember to add into other games down the line. And it pretty well negates the "Why didn't stantler evolve before? Why doesn't it evolve in the remake?"- because it just didn't in that region. Bam. Done. No more extra items or explaining.

We've already seen them retconning some evos with making Leafeon, Glaceon, and the other special location evos into stone evos. So you can kinda already feel GameFreak breaking free from some of their old chains there.

 

[NealIRC]

We've already seen them retconning some evos with making Leafeon, Glaceon, and the other special location evos into stone evos. So you can kinda already feel GameFreak breaking free from some of their old chains there.

Ah yes, this is the stuff we're looking for. Stuff that GF has used to contradict themselves. But as for Leafeon/Glaceon, I'm not sure they're absolute. We know that certain pokemon evolve by certain locations. Couldn't the Leaf Stone just work in Galar, but not work in Kanto? If they ever made the Leaf Stone work in Kanto, then we would know it's an absolute contradiction.

 

[BackSet]

I'm not a big fan of location based evolution so I'd fine with that.

 

[Oriden]

Ah yes, this is the stuff we're looking for. Stuff that GF has used to contradict themselves. But as for Leafeon/Glaceon, I'm not sure they're absolute. We know that certain pokemon evolve by certain locations. Couldn't the Leaf Stone just work in Galar, but not work in Kanto? If they ever made the Leaf Stone work in Kanto, then we would know it's an absolute contradiction.

They're not really contradicting themselves. They're just changing the old evolution methods with one more readily available so they don't have to place rocks and magnetic fields in every region to allow those pokemon to evolve. I think the real test would be if the rocks still exist in BDSP, but even then- we will probably never see them again in future games because it's inconvenient to implement them. Converting them to stone evos makes sense.

They actually did the same with rotom's forms too, so Gen 8 was a whole 'required location' clean up.

 

[Eitarou]

The less inventory-clogging items people need to collect just to evolve certain Pokemon the better.

 

[Oriden]

The less inventory-clogging items people need to collect just to evolve certain Pokemon the better.

After the location evo clean up, I do wonder if we won't see an evo item clean up relatively soon. Unique evo methods are nice and all but at this point I think the series could use some house cleaning.

This goes for the baby incense too.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

Aaand no new Pokémon stuff in the Direct. I didn't have high hopes for that, to be honest. Oh, well. Probably soon and separately.

 

[Joker901]

Aaand no new Pokémon stuff in the Direct. I didn't have high hopes for that, to be honest. Oh, well. Probably soon and separately.

I guess so. Less than two months for BDSP and we have two trailers. I mean, TWO trailers for the entire marketing campaign. I expect news as soon as possible.
Same for Legends. What we know is really not enough for the first open world pokemon game that will release in less than 4 months. I'm really confused by this year marketing campaign.

 

[Tuoko]

I guess so. Less than two months for BDSP and we have two trailers. I mean, TWO trailers for the entire marketing campaign. I expect news as soon as possible.
Same for Legends. What we know is really not enough for the first open world pokemon game that will release in less than 4 months. I'm really confused by this year marketing campaign.

I'm guessing it's just a case of the pandemic affecting the release dates, and by extension when the marketing cycle starts. I'd imagine they would've always had a 3 month cycle for BDSP & 5 month cycle for LA in the first place, the latter which matches recent mid-Gen titles' marketing.

If things hadn't been affected, I'd imagine the first marketing cycle trailer would've been June whie BDSP would've been September to match the originals' release date & LA taking up the usual November slot.

Of course the only thing it didn't affect was the date of their announcements, but that's because they can't really change the anniversary date.