The "final" thought about the Arceus/Mew "problem".

[SolgaleoGX]

I don't get why people tie themselves in a knot over this. Both ideas can co-exist perfectly. Only time I see people go against anything involving Arceus and Mew it's when the people are moronic Gen I fanboys.

Arceus comes to be. Arceus creates the Creation Trio. Creates the Emotion Trio. PokeEarth is formed. Creates the Weather Trio to shape it. Creates Mew to populate it. Normal Pokemon decend from Mew. Between the period of the Weather Trio's creation and the Mew populating process, or after, Arceus allows for the creation of other legendaries for whatever specific purposes.

Not that hard to understand.

While Arceus' identity as the creator of all Pokemon is supported by ancient mythology, Mew's status as the common ancestor of all Pokemon stands not upon myths, but rather is perpetuated by scientists from the modern era.

Thing about Arceus is...we actually see the whole cosmic egg creation thing, which points to the myth actually being true.

Exactly. I believe the anime is more truer than the games for several reasons.

Wait..a continuity frozen in time is truer than one that allows itself to age and expand?

Wha about Ho-Oh? Ho-Oh seems to be more important in the pokemon storyline than Mew, well in the anime at least.

If Arceus was all-knowing, he would have known that the Jewel of Life was a fake from the beginning and would have known that not all humans are bad, etc.

If we go by anime portrayals, Mewtwo can own Arceus any day.

How would she have the DNA of the weather Trio? and Porygon or Elgyem? The Weather Trio were created by natural phenomina. Porygon is a artifical pokemon and Elegyem and his evo arn't native to earth and have only been on Earth for 50 years... so Mew can't litteraly have the DNA of all pokemon.

Who says Elgyem weren't around before that? Just like they arrived 50 years ago they could've arrived before.

Or Mew themselves can be found elsewhere in the Pokeverse.

 

[Master Mew]

I don't get why people tie themselves in a knot over this. Both ideas can co-exist perfectly. Only time I see people go against anything involving Arceus and Mew it's when the people are moronic Gen I fanboys.

Arceus comes to be. Arceus creates the Creation Trio. Creates the Emotion Trio. PokeEarth is formed. Creates the Weather Trio to shape it. Creates Mew to populate it. Normal Pokemon decend from Mew. Between the period of the Weather Trio's creation and the Mew populating process, or after, Arceus allows for the creation of other legendaries for whatever specific purposes.

Not that hard to understand.

*Checks to make sure he hasn't slipped into the Real World sub-forum by accident*

Must we insult each other's intelligence in order to establish our arguments?

If we follow the Creationism/Evolution parallel we've been comparing this debate to so far, the reconciliatory position you have put forth would closely parallel that of Theistic Evolution. Much like Theistic Evolution, I tend to view this theory as more of a compromise than a credible explanation whenever it is put forth, but that's just my personal opinion.

 

[CliveKoopa]

It doesn't. I just checked Bulbapedia and all it says is that "Some scientists believe it to be the ancestor of all Pokémon." I suppose that's only some of them, not that it is confirmed. It says that in Crystal, DPPt, and BW Pokédex.

It says outright about 10 times that it has the DNA of every Pokémon.

Ditto also has the DNA of every pokemon to some extent.

 

[Articwolf10]

I


If we go by anime portrayals, Mewtwo can own Arceus any day.

lol no... Arceus in the anime CRUSHED the Creation trio.... he would've killed them if the gang hadn't intervened. Mewtwo couldn't even beat Mew so Arceus >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Mewtwo. He'd just go Dark Type and hit him with a Dark Type Judgement and BAM dead Mewtwo

 

[SolgaleoGX]

*Checks to make sure he hasn't slipped into the Real World sub-forum by accident*

Must we insult each other's intelligence in order to establish our arguments?

If we follow the Creationism/Evolution parallel we've been comparing this debate to so far, the reconciliatory position you have put forth would closely parallel that of Theistic Evolution. Much like Theistic Evolution, I tend to view this theory as more of a compromise than a credible explanation whenever it is put forth, but that's just my personal opinion.

Just pointing out who really has a hard time looking at both sides of the coin. Not those who analyze all aspects and come to a single conclusion.

You could say it's much like Theistic Evolution, but the Arceus event showed us Arceus creating an egg. We see it, so there's some proof to support the Arceus mythology. And remember, we're more like spectators to the events unfolding in the Pokemon Universe, what would seem like make believe to them has sometimes been proven to be reality to us.

lol no... Arceus in the anime CRUSHED the Creation trio.... he would've killed them if the gang hadn't intervened. Mewtwo couldn't even beat Mew so Arceus >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Mewtwo. He'd just go Dark Type and hit him with a Dark Type Judgement and BAM dead Mewtwo

Mewtwo can alter reality, and by the time it first did that it was just learning to use it's powers. Either way, Arceus portrayal in the anime was horrible.

 

[Articwolf10]

Just pointing out who really has a hard time looking at both sides of the coin.

You could say it's much like Theistic Evolution, but the Arceus event showed us Arceus creating an egg. We see it, so there's some proof to support the Arceus mythology. And remember, we're more like spectators to the events unfolding in the Pokemon Universe, what would seem like make believe to them has sometimes been proven to be reality to us.




Mewtwo can alter reality, and by the time it first did that it was just learning to use it's powers. Either way, Arceus portrayal in the anime was horrible.

Arceus was basicly invincable in the anime... He slaughtered the Creation Trio and nearly destroyed mankind and would've succeeded if it wasn't for Ash and co... plus he took out that astraiod how in any way was hispreformance in the anime bad when he was all but inbeatable? Mewtwo was getting his ass kickedby Giovanni...

 

[SolgaleoGX]

Arceus was basicly invincable in the anime... He slaughtered the Creation Trio and nearly destroyed mankind and would've succeeded if it wasn't for Ash and co... plus he took out that astraiod how in any way was hispreformance in the anime bad when he was all but inbeatable? Mewtwo was getting his ass kickedby Giovanni...

First of, Mewtwo surrendered itself to Giovanni. Second, quote from Ghetsis in BW.

A Pokémon, even if it's revered as a deity, is still just a Pokémon.

Arceus, Mewtwo, Reshiram, Lugia, whoever. They may have marvelous powers, some beyond human comprehension, but aslong as they're Pokemon, humans may still find their way with them.

Mewtwo had to surrender itself to save those it cared for, but Arceus was just a fool.

 

[Articwolf10]

First of, Mewtwo surrendered itself to Giovanni. Second, quote from Ghetsis in BW.

A Pokémon, even if it's revered as a deity, is still just a Pokémon.

Arceus, Mewtwo, Reshiram, Lugia, whoever. They may have marvelous powers, some beyond human comprehension, but aslong as they're Pokemon, humans may still find their way with them.

Mewtwo had to surrender itself to save those it cared for, but Arceus was just a fool.

He had good reason to be pissed though consdering he was betrayed y someone he trusted... he did go overboard but still Mewtwo might be powerful but
I highly doubt he can beat the creation Trio at once...

 

[Fair Verona]

I always thought that perhaps Mew created the egg that Arceus came from.

 

[Articwolf10]

I always thought that perhaps Mew created the egg that Arceus came from.

Doubt it it was clearly stated that Arceus egg came from nothinh (kinda like God in Christanity/Isalm/Judiasm) Mew can be seen as the Adam and Eve of Pokemon created for the purpose of filling the land (since humans evolved from pokemon accoriding to one of the Sinnoh legends)

 

[Master Mew]

Doubt it it was clearly stated that Arceus egg came from nothinh (kinda like God in Christanity/Isalm/Judiasm) Mew can be seen as the Adam and Eve of Pokemon created for the purpose of filling the land (since humans evolved from pokemon accoriding to one of the Sinnoh legends)

Which is another reason why I tend to think Sinnoh's legends are just that: Legends.

 

[CliveKoopa]

Humans evolved from Pokemon? I never knew that.. Where in Sinnoh legends does it say that? Whoever wrote that obviously knows nothing about pokemon evolution and how different they are from humans.

Anyway how would they evolve into humans? Would it be through experience or through a Moon Stone or something else?

 

[Articwolf10]

Humans evolved from Pokemon? I never knew that.. Where in Sinnoh legends does it say that? Whoever wrote that obviously knows nothing about pokemon evolution and how different they are from humans.

Anyway how would they evolve into humans? Would it be through experience or through a Moon Stone or something else?

Well we apperently evolved from monkies so.... maybe the legend meant literal Evolution and not the Metamporphic evolution? It makes sense in a weird way Mew islitterallythe bringer of life

 

[CliveKoopa]

Well we apperently evolved from monkies so.... maybe the legend meant literal Evolution and not the Metamporphic evolution? It makes sense in a weird way Mew islitterallythe bringer of life

We evolved from apes actually, not monkeys but anyway there is no such thing as literal evolution in the Pokemon universe. You'd think people in the pokemon universe would have known that through pokemon evolving, etc.

 

[Articwolf10]

We evolved from apes actually, not monkeys but anyway there is no such thing as literal evolution in the Pokemon universe. You'd think people in the pokemon universe would have known that through pokemon evolving, etc.

Well... Archen is said to be the first Bird Pokemon and couldn't fly and Pidgey and co can... and the reason for theabundance of similar Pokemon (Like Meowth and te other cats) evolved seperaty into what they are now...

Just think of it if Humans came from Pokemon and Mew has the DNA of all pokemon that means she also has the DNA of all humans hows that for fridge logic?

 

[CliveKoopa]

Well... Archen is said to be the first Bird Pokemon and couldn't fly and Pidgey and co can... and the reason for theabundance of similar Pokemon (Like Meowth and te other cats) evolved seperaty into what they are now...

Just think of it if Humans came from Pokemon and Mew has the DNA of all pokemon that means she also has the DNA of all humans hows that for fridge logic?

That's possible. But Mew is a pokemon so does that mean he can use Transform and transform into a human appearance? The same could apply to Ditto who also knows Transform. The only pokemon I know that can turn human are the two Latis although that's only in the anime so I'm not sure if it counts.

Also, why can't humans be caught in pokeballs and are not in tune with nature, etc if that were true?

 

[Articwolf10]

That's possible. But Mew is a pokemon so does that mean he can use Transform and transform into a human appearance? The same could apply to Ditto who also knows Transform. The only pokemon I know that can turn human are the two Latis although that's only in the anime so I'm not sure if it counts.

Also, why can't humans be caught in pokeballs and are not in tune with nature, etc if that were true?

Well... Jessie tried to get Duplicia's ditto into a picture of one of her old boyfriends... sp I guess it's possible Ditto and Mew can if Latias is able to... andI guess they have a failsafe to prevent the whole humans and pokeball thing from happening... and if you think of it Mew can be anagos to Adam and Eve... so Mew fits in the Arceus view perectly

 

[CliveKoopa]

And what about humans not having cries or just saying "human human" again if we humans came from Mew. It sounds silly but I'm just saying that humans are different from Pokemon in many ways in the Pokemon Universe and I don't understand how they can logically come from Mew unless Arceus created them seperately.

 

[Pyradox]

^^ That's like asking why we don't give off seeds at regular intervals, even though we share a good part of our DNA with certain plants. Human brains are differently developed, but that doesn't mean we don't have a common ancestor.

 

[Bikini Miltank]

The information we have about Arceus is myth. It has to be, unless you believe there was somebody around at the beginning of the universe to take notes.

The information we have about Mew comes from the scientists who studied it.

Now, which is more likely to be accurate?