Why do people hate Gen 4 and 5 so much?

[Orion-Sama]

I just don't get the complaining about features being removed and thus there's less to do.

I actually agree there. I have logged hundreds of hours in all Pokémon games just training Pokémon and making teams, trading and battling, and doing all the trainer Stars quests, and even restarting the game if I liked it enough. Heck, I logged the most hours ever in Diamond, despite me hating the game.

My complaint comes from another direction, it being that Diamond/Pearl were the first games in the series not to transfer new features that enrich gameplay added in the 3rd version of the previous generation, instead removing them intentionally to add them back in Platinum. I didn't like it much back then, but it wasn't exactly off-putting from said games. I logged more than 400 hours in Diamond after all. It was the least of their problems too, when they had much, much bigger problems for starters (Slow ass gameplay).

It's not so much there being less to do, as it is there being unnecessary removals that never happened before. However, I understand why it's done for the most part.

As others have pointed out, there are certain things that need to be done in an initial generational pair that don't have to be done later, or done to a lesser extent. That's going to consume more time and resources so there's less time to develop other things. The people working on later games, not having to do an extensive plot or whatever, have time to do those other things.

And there are people who wait for the later versions, and that's fine. But I really don't get the complaining of the initial pair not having stuff that has almost always been in later, not initial, versions.

I agree with your points and others'. By now I am used to it and know it's gonna happen. The first time is always going to stand out though, for better or worse. Now if only they kept and brought back features proven to be excellent and well-received and stopped removing them, sometimes to never return, or kept their standards consistent, I think all would benefit. But yes, features can get more complicated as time goes on, so it naturally takes some more time to implement them properly.

If anything, keeping old features at bay for latter games prevents dumbass moves like copy/pasting them between games. I know I hated the HGSS Battle Frontier being a total copy/paste from Platinum. The same facilities would've been fine with me, but it was also the same Frontier Brains. They could've changed that for more difference and even expanding the cast or bringing back familiar faces (Tower Tycoon Leaf, anyone?), compatibility be damned. After all, this practice does have its ups and downs.

 

[Bolt Strike]

I just don't get the complaining about features being removed and thus there's less to do.

Listen, back in Gen I, there were only 5 trainers to re-battle (E4 and Champion). There was no breeding. There was no post game plot at all. There was nothing resembling side quests or mini games or whatever (well, besides gambling). There was no breeding to make more of the Pokemons you love, meaning that if you wanted a starter without having to trade away yours, you'd need another game cart and another Game Boy and on and on and on.

And yet people still sunk several dozen, some hundred, some even thousands of hours, into those Gen I games.

Because they battled and traded with friends. That's the draw of the game. That there's a "main game" for those who like it, and there may be some other little things in the games. But the main draw is, once you're done with the "main" game, you can battle and trade with other people.

As others have pointed out, there are certain things that need to be done in an initial generational pair that don't have to be done later, or done to a lesser extent. That's going to consume more time and resources so there's less time to develop other things. The people working on later games, not having to do an extensive plot or whatever, have time to do those other things.

And there are people who wait for the later versions, and that's fine. But I really don't get the complaining of the initial pair not having stuff that has almost always been in later, not initial, versions.

I think it's because they want to see the games continually improve and get better over time. Having features constantly phased in and out is a bit jarring. Part of that is players demanding a "do everything" game I think, but the other part is more a desire to see more consistent gameplay.

It's not so much there being less to do, as it is there being unnecessary removals that never happened before. However, I understand why it's done for the most part.

This is a good point, the removals that bother me the most are the ones that were useful. What sticks out the most to me now is how none of the games since 5th gen have a reliable rematch system (instead forcing you to use awkward rematch mechanics like the Sports Domes or the restaurants which are far too limited) which limits your ability to earn EXP and money, and the games suffer a bit from its removal. Not saying they have to keep the Vs. Seeker in every single game from now on if that's too much, but something more like the phone or Trainer's Eyes would help.

Furthermore, I was really bothered with the decrease in replay value from generation to generation. In other words, that BW1 and XY offered less than what DP did, and that BW2 offered less than what Platinum and HGSS did. XY I can give a pass to because of the extra work in making everything 3D, but there was less of an excuse with 5th gen. There wasn't much extra work to be done in creating a new graphical style on a new console, it was only a marginal graphical improvement more consistent with what you'd see in say, RS to Emerald or DP to Platinum, minor touch ups for the most part (the only graphical features I can see taking up significant development time are the constantly animated sprites and the smatterings of 3D effects, but even those don't seem like they'd hog up THAT much time). Stripping down the game to the point where it even lacked very basic features like berry harvesting/planting or trainer rematches felt more like a design decision in trying to create that "fresh start" feeling (which IMO was completely unwarranted) as opposed to simply extras that they didn't have time to make.

 

[Yazdog4]

I don't know, to me it seems like Gen 5 got the most hate. It was the generation that a lot of people left Pokémon. Which was strange, because I think Unova had by far the best plot line and story

 

[Bolt Strike]

I don't know, to me it seems like Gen 5 got the most hate. It was the generation that a lot of people left Pokémon. Which was strange, because I think Unova had by far the best plot line and story

It never crossed your mind that people are looking at other factors? There's much more to the game than story.

 

[Yazdog4]

I don't know, to me it seems like Gen 5 got the most hate. It was the generation that a lot of people left Pokémon. Which was strange, because I think Unova had by far the best plot line and story

It never crossed your mind that people are looking at other factors? There's much more to the game than story.

I didn't mean it in that way. Obviously the story was not the only factor, I just decided to single it out as a strength.

 

[MetroLSD]

I think the majority of people who hate Gen IV have only played DP and not Platinum, for people to write Sinnoh off as the worse region in the series by basing it solely on their experience with two of the worse games in the series is pure ignorance.

 

[Alola]

A lot of people seem to dislike Barry as a rival in the games but I think he's one of the best in terms of his team and his personality. He's your friend and yet he's competitive with you. He's not just a complete jerk like Green or Silver or all buddy buddy with you like Calem/Serena. Plus I just love his battle music and his little dancing animation he does in Platinum.

Calem/Serena buddy-buddy? Uhm no haha. They are actually determined, focused and serious. Downright distant during the first half of the game, gradually opening up more and to the group as your rival battles increase.

I think Barry is the most buddy-buddy out of all the main game rivals. If you're playing as Lucas, it's practically a bromance. Anyways, clearly you are his best friend, as well as childhood friend, he bumps into you (literally) often, refers to you by name often (which Calem/Serena do not), battles with you several times (the only rival to tag battle against both a gym leader and an elite four member), and just look at his dialogue. Look at it.

But I agree with the best personality and most diverse team of all the current in-game rivals.

 

[henrymidfields]

I don't know, to me it seems like Gen 5 got the most hate. It was the generation that a lot of people left Pokémon. Which was strange, because I think Unova had by far the best plot line and story

It never crossed your mind that people are looking at other factors? There's much more to the game than story.

I didn't mean it in that way. Obviously the story was not the only factor, I just decided to single it out as a strength.

Actually, I can see a gameplay-related reason why at least some people would hate BW. While it hasn't stopped me from completing the game yet, I've found level grinding in BW frustrating at times, because of how the experience yield is rigged against my higher-levelled Pokemon - which is bad if they are still lower-levelled against the local gym leader. It also doesn't help that many of the wild Pokemon have more annoying moves to throw you training off the rails and send you straight to a Pokemon Center. It's particularly bad when you fight against N and Elesa in Nimbasa City, considering that their mon are powerful at that particular point, being one of the few bosses that I actually wanted the XY's uber-powerful Exp Share to overlevel. (I'm not sure whether this has been remedied in B2W2, as I haven't played yet.)

Otherwise, I loved that Game Freak decided to set the new Pokemon games outside of Japan. This was one of the reasons why I played XY, and am playing BW. I also find the Pokemon Musical quite addictive, and the interactions between the various characters in the Nimbasa Ferris Wheel is hilarious. The overall story of the relationship between Pokemon and humans are also interesting to see unfold as I venture further.

 

[Robo-Floatzel]

Honestly, the only people I know who hate Gen 4 are the obnoxious "Gen 1 is superior" fans, but in my honest opinion, I thought Gen 4 was the best generation. Not only did it introduce Floatzel, my favorite Pokemon of all, but it's what I like to call the definitive generation. The battle system was fleshed out and was probably at it's most balanced, and the region of Sinnoh had a large variety of things to do. You never followed a straight line from town to town, but instead you went all over the region, with many alternate paths to take and such, and you always went through areas more than once, in which the second or third time through there was more that you could access now that you had Surf or another HM. Not to mention that almost every town had something of interest, be it the GTS in Jubilife, the Day Care in Solaceon, the Great Marsh in Pastoria, and more. Sinnoh also has what is probably the best post-game in the franchise, as there is just so much to do in the region, unlike Unova where there's only a few things you can do, or Kalos where the post-game is virtually nonexistent.

While Gen 5 had some of the best Pokemon concepts (it had the largest amount of new Pokemon in the franchise, including a few of my all-time favorites), one of the best stories, and some of the best music; But the region of Unova itself was probably the franchises weakest region. Unova was probably the most linear region as you essentially followed a straight line from town to town, with each town having not much to do, you just went to the town, got the badge, did whatever other events happened in the town, and BAM, you're done, on to the next town. I can see why Gen 5 is the generation where the most people left the franchise, because it's where I feel the franchise as a whole took a major step DOWN from the previous generation: The region was linear and didn't have too much content (with a lot of features that Gen 4 had removed) and the fact that in BW1 you had NO ACCESS to older Pokemon until the post-game, you could only use new Pokemon, which turned off many players who wanted to use their favorites rather than with Pokemon that are completely new to them. A lot of other features such as multiplayer were changed (no more level 100 battles, all Pokemon were level 50, like in the Battle Frontier), as well as an over-reliance on gimmicks like Black City and White Forest among others. Many people felt like the franchise had changed too much between Gen 4 and 5 and they left in masses.

 

[TerraTF]

I never really knew people disliked those gens. Its always people hating on Gen 3 a lot more than 4 and 5 combined. I didn't really like Gen 5 too much tbh but that's because the story can get boring with constant battles with the same people over and over again. Every other battle in BW felt like a Plasma or Cheren or Bianca battle.

 

[Serena]

For me, Gen 4 just wasn't that memorable. It's not a bad game, there's just not much to it.

The Pokemon choices weren't bad, and there ARE some pretty awesome Pokemon that were introduced (like Luxray and Staraptor), but they were... limited. Like others have said, there's a distinct lack of Fire-type Pokemon, and Fire-types are dead useful, so that's a big issue.

The rival was a hit-and-miss. Some like his quirky personality and how hard he tries to be the best he can be, while others find him annoying and just want him to go away (I'm in the latter group).

The soundtrack was especially lame, with the soundtracks of Gen 3, Gen 5, and Gen 6 beating it easily. Soundtracks aren't mentioned much, but they are important because it's 98-99% of the sound you hear in the game (with the other 1-2% being sound effects). The music should be able to pop into your head and take you back to a point in the game, and DPPl lacked that.


For Gen 5, like others have said, most of the hate comes from the Pokemon designs. There are also people who hate it for the rivals, feeling Bianca and Cheren weren't good at their role in the games (especially for Cheren who acted tough, but yet couldn't utilize his Pokemon's strengths correctly). B2W2, however, are just seen as rehashes that didn't bring much new to the table save for Join Avenue, Pokemon movies, and the ability to get a Lucario early.

 

[Sneazy Sneasel]

The soundtrack was especially lame, with the soundtracks of Gen 3, Gen 5, and Gen 6 beating it easily. Soundtracks aren't mentioned much, but they are important because it's 98-99% of the sound you hear in the game (with the other 1-2% being sound effects). The music should be able to pop into your head and take you back to a point in the game, and DPPl lacked that.

The route 208(day), 222(both day and night), 217(Day), Trainer battle theme, Victory Road, Rival Battle, Champion battle, Distortion world, Arceus battle theme, Girantina battle theme, Lake trio battle theme, Frontire Brain battle theme, and Battle Arcade theme all disagree with you.

 

[Serena]

The route 208(day), 222(both day and night), 217(Day), Trainer battle theme, Victory Road, Rival Battle, Champion battle, Distortion world, Arceus battle theme, Girantina battle theme, Lake trio battle theme, Frontire Brain battle theme, and Battle Arcade theme all disagree with you.

I apologize, I should have been more clear. I meant that they weren't memorable in my opinion. I have to really think to remember how each of those musical pieces went (except for the Arceus theme -- that one's not easy to forget). Yet I could name my favorites from RSE, BW, and XY right off the top of my head.

 

[Sneazy Sneasel]

in my opinion

Really? the way you worded your post made it seem as though your speaking for a majority.

I freaken hate how people bash gen 4 and 5, maybe i should stay away this thread for awhile if theres going to be a gen bashing fest.

 

[buckanater]

I own black and white. I hate how UGLY the graphics are. Just looking at them hurt my eyes. It seems more pixelated and I can't understand why they went from HGSS to BW with the way the graphics looked. In this case, simple was better. That was my beef with that set of games. gen 4 looked better and you could tell they saved their graphics upgrade when they made a full 3D XY generation. It's obvious to see BW suffered greatly.

 

[UnseeingRaccoon]

Personally I like gen IV. It was the best gen until X&Y came out and it's still number 2. We got online, physical/special split, useful evolutions to useless pokemon and the only way to catch Lugia and Ho-oh since gen two without a side game or event(still is the only way to get them btw)

 

[Boshi234]

Seriously why do people think gen 1, 2, 3 and 6 are better than Diamond, Pearl, Black and White? i didn't find any problem with the games and i thought the Pokemon designs were good why do people hate these games so much?

The fact that many grew with Generation 1 and another majority grew with the Game Boy Advance games (Generation 3), but then again the Pokémon of Unova and Sinnoh aren't really that bad and you could always get Pokémon from the Game Boy Advance games like getting your Level 85 Charizard from FireRed etc.
But not many did not like it because they did not like the designs, not that they would make a difference in the sales numbers because others buy the games just to put their Pokémon from the other games (if possible) or play against other players.

 

[TerraTF]

But not many did not like it because they did not like the designs, not that they would make a difference in the sales numbers because others buy the games just to put their Pokémon from the other games (if possible) or play against other players.

I don't really mind the designs of Gen 4. Gen 5 was personally too short to get to know the Pokemon well.

 

[Boshi234]

I don't really mind the designs of Gen 4. Gen 5 was personally too short to get to know the Pokemon well.

Yeah Generation 5 ended oddly to quick IMO, and mostly the people that I heard complain about the Sinnoh Pokémon had the games and played it all the time maybe that was an example of hypocrisy.

 

[TerraTF]

I don't really mind the designs of Gen 4. Gen 5 was personally too short to get to know the Pokemon well.

Yeah Generation 5 ended oddly to quick IMO, and mostly the people that I heard complain about the Sinnoh Pokémon had the games and played it all the time maybe that was an example of hypocrisy.

The only complaint I really have about the Sinnoh games is the same complaint I have about the Johto games. Everyone's team is the same.

In Sinnoh its Starter / Staraptor / Luxray / Roserade / Lucario / Wild Card 1

In Johto its Starter / Noctowl/Pidgoet / Ampharos / Golem / Wild Card 1 / Wild Card 2