Mafia ZD X BMG 2019 Link’s Awakening Hydra Mafia Crossover Game Thread

[SoaringDylan]

Deleted by MoD.

Will elaborate later.

 

[SoaringDylan]

Removed by MoD.

Will elaborate later.

FYI: No game relevant information has been deleted.

 

[thesunspear]

If I'm reading the two wallposts correctly, this quote was from thesunfan, correct? Was it moe who placed the vote for dum dum idiots then this phase? This quote here seems to imply that ddi is a town read. As I'm typing this, I see the unvote on ddi, but what I don't get is a) that vote in the first place since it didn't seem to have any build-up to it and b) another aspect I'm curious about, but it relates more to the moe wallpost, so I'll get to that next.

The fact is, we have a successful scum lynch to use to now go back and examine the votes from. I understand that there very likely could be mafia having bussed ZMS on D1, but Aflame doesn't strike me as doing that when I looked back through their posts at the request of Tommy and Hal. Given the size of the wagons (which were about even 6:5), I think it is just as likely that there is scum on the S&N wagon since that was the only viable alternative for much of the phase other than Lone Wolf for a while (which does make me wonder about Restless Ridge, who had a vote on LW to the end IIRC and I do want to see an eventual answer for why that was the case despite that having been an active enough slot to take a stance on S&N vs ZMS as the phase went on; I had asked Hydreigon & Shelgon GX about a similar issue with their vote and extreme tunneling on you guys). I just think it's hard to believe that no scumbuddies wanted to save a godfather/roleblocker; even if the ZMS slot looked bad, those abilities are incredibly useful for mafia to keep around.

My point about "the power of hindsight" is that we KNOW 100% that ZMS was scum, S&N was town. That's the most concrete information we have at our disposal, and I don't see a problem with trying to draw conclusions from that. Nothing I or my other head has said has been that we're only focused on the S&N wagon; Tommy and Hal stood out for reasons related to the wagon, but that isn't the only reason they've got a vote. They had an entire 72 hours to make an impression in this game and did not; the only notable thing that slot did the whole time was be a late arrival to the S&N wagon and get into an argument with Aflame that seemed to escalate ridiculously quick. Time zones are a thing, but where was T&H the whole rest of the time? I think it is reasonable to find the timing of their sudden burst of activity scummy when we know how things turned out. T&H also hasn't felt the need to come back in here; the votes are not set, it's not like their fate is set in stone. The pro-town thing to do would be to fight if you're actually town, and people have held off voting mainly to let discussion happen. That they aren't taking advantage of that feels reads as scummy to me because I personally fight tooth and nail when I'm town and getting wrongfully accused, because there is nothing to lose and everything to gain at that point.

But back to what I was saying in response to the first quote, I have to ask: are you thinking that Aflame is the scummiest person here? I don't get the lack of a vote then. I do understand what you're saying about wanting to resolve the T&H situation so everyone can move past it, but if you truly think they're town, then voting Aflame would kill two birds with one stone since you'd find them scummier and more likely to flip mafia and Aflame flipping mafia would pretty much clear T&H, because there's no way that big fight in late D1 was staged.

The DDI read was mostly sunfan, but I came around to it with that semi-reads list. Sunfan was the one who actually placed the vote. However, he apparently does not think so anymore. I am still sheeping him on it in this case.

It is interesting you bring up voting for aflame. Would you like to vote for him with me? There is no way an aflame lynch is happening today and voting for him would not even serve as a justifiable counterwagon. Nobody is truthfully going to vote for them. The only possible reaction to voting aflame would be people lynching the sunspear instead of T&H and I infinitely support lynching the latter.

Also, you might want to proofread your posts as you are starting to ramble just a bit. Your posts have more than one clear point and it makes it difficult to have a real discussion with you

 

[thesunspear]

yo moe fr back the f off

I have not been making personal attacks so I decided to show them an example of a personal attack to let them figure out the difference for themselves.

 

[Paul and the band]

I have not been making personal attacks so I decided to show them an example of a personal attack to let them figure out the difference for themselves.

"personal attack" or not, you're still being rude and you've already been called out on it.

i've never seen you like this man c'mon

 

[Aflame]

I'm not gonna be angry. It's a game, it's really not worth it. But if they don't get modkilled I'm outta here.
@funnier6 @Mellow Ezlo

 

[Paul and the band]

sigh

Unvote
Vote: thesunspear

 

[thesunspear]

"personal attack" or not, you're still being rude and you've already been called out on it.

i've never seen you like this man c'mon

Yes you have.
Everyone on ffr is good though so I don't get frustrated usually, it is like literally anyone playing with nakah but nakah is a good internet friend of mine and I understand him pretty well. I will continue to call the play in this game sloppy as long as it continues to be sloppy because otherwise wolves are allowed to reach conclusions without putting in work.
The badness makes me the madness

 

[Paul and the band]

leetic i still don't think sunspear's a wolf though

 

[thesunspear]

I'm not gonna be angry. It's a game, it's really not worth it. But if they don't get modkilled I'm outta here.
@funnier6 @Mellow Ezlo

This community's reception to other players has been far from welcome and according to the rules deserving of penalization- "asking players to stop posting" is apparently against the rules, so basically half of the players need to be modkilled before I even get looked at.

 

[Paul and the band]

leetic i still don't think sunspear's a wolf though

I think he is, will explain more when I have time

 

[Paul and the band]

Yes you have.
Everyone on ffr is good though so I don't get frustrated usually, it is like literally anyone playing with nakah but nakah is a good internet friend of mine and I understand him pretty well. I will continue to call the play in this game sloppy as long as it continues to be sloppy because otherwise wolves are allowed to reach conclusions without putting in work.
The badness makes me the madness

there's better ways to go about criticizing people's play though. and you're being a bit elitist

 

[Paul and the band]

moe when the ivy league grad calls you out on being elitist you know you gone in deep

 

[thesunspear]

@Mafia Nursing Home oh, right. I never even responded to one of your points. Such is the curse of wallposting. It is fine to use player flips as a source on information obviously but you should not throw everything else aside.

 

[Paul and the band]

I'll just copy this:

As always with the heated nature of mafia games, especially this one with its multiple different and sometimes conflicting community cultures, tensions can run high throughout the game. I'd just like to put a reminder up right now to remind everyone to respect their fellow players throughout the course of the game. Taking issue with a player's gameplay is one thing, but please also remember that every player in this game is a person, so let's avoid unnecessary insults and the like to keep this a friendly and competitive environment.

Remember that there are players of all skill levels in this game and players from many different communities with many different playstyles. While you do not need to respect the playstyle, you need to respect the player. At the end of the day, mafia games are a way to have fun, and I would like to keep the environment of this game positive enough to allow this.

 

[thesunspear]

moe when the ivy league grad calls you out on being elitist you know you gone in deep

Lol
I am trying to respond to players as neutrally as I can to highlight the confirmation bias in their posts. Any sense of elitism you may get is more likely from my current formal posting style and less from an actual feeling of it. I like to assume everyone in a game is at least as good as me and when this assumption is wrong is when I start to flip tables. I should be the worst player in this game by far. I should be the one imploding on day 1 because I have two votes on me. I should be the one tunneling on a player and not listening to reason. I should be the one proposing a no lynch so as to avoid killing an innocent town.

 

[Paul and the band]

Lol
I am trying to respond to players as neutrally as I can to highlight the confirmation bias in their posts. Any sense of elitism you may get is more likely from my current formal posting style and less from an actual feeling of it. I like to assume everyone in a game is at least as good as me and when this assumption is wrong is when I start to flip tables. I should be the worst player in this game by far. I should be the one imploding on day 1 because I have two votes on me. I should be the one tunneling on a player and not listening to reason. I should be the one proposing a no lynch so as to avoid killing an innocent town.

insert montage of all the wacky ffa plays in ffr twg

 

[thesunspear]

For clarification:
"This player is not playing well" is not, will never be, and should not be interpreted as a "personal attack". A player's skill is game relevant information and I will treat it as another thing to analyze unless you want another Calvin situation. I am giving these players room to make mistakes and I am still being called out for it. It is a catch 22, probably.

insert montage of all the wacky ffa plays in ffr twg

so what the flip is going on here

 

[Mafia Nursing Home]

Also, you might want to proofread your posts as you are starting to ramble just a bit. Your posts have more than one clear point and it makes it difficult to have a real discussion with you

Sorry, I know have a rambling problem both inside games and 100% absolutely out of them lol. If there's anything that needs clarification, I can try to keep things shorter to clarify.

@Mafia Nursing Home oh, right. I never even responded to one of your points. Such is the curse of wallposting. It is fine to use player flips as a source on information obviously but you should not throw everything else aside.

I understand that, but since I feel that T&H stands out the most from either wagon's players as a likely scumbuddy to ZMS, that's why I've harped on them. Looking at the vote count now:

thesunspear- 1 (H&S)
Lone Wolf- 1 (RR)
Scumlords and Noobs- 5 (Chillian, ZMS, sunspear, LatB, T&H)
Zinn Mask Salesman- 6 (Aflame, BLC, S&N, MNH, ddi, LW)

Of the ZMS voters and crossing out the ones who are dead, I know that I'm town.

I don't think that Lone Wolf's players are the type to bus in that kind of situation and I think their posts on the S&N miller claim felt genuine enough that they are likely town.

dum dum idiots hasn't pinged me personally this game (I think my other head did find some of their posts sheepy, though; I think it was particularly their vote on ZMS, which I'd need to go back and find) and I agree with them enough that I town read them.

Aflame was the OG voter and had a decent progression in their ZMS thoughts leading up to the post; I know you posted about why you felt the opposite, but I don't read the two heads disagreeing as being a disagreement about bussing since ZMS wasn't in a ton of danger at that point anyway IIRC.

Since none of them look bad to me, that's why I've been looking more at the S&N wagon. The longer it takes for Restless Ridge to actually address their Lone Wolf vote though, the more they start to move up my suspects list, and I'm still not sold on Hydreigon & Shelgon GX with how hard they tunneled on D1 and didn't seem to consider anything else once that sunspear vote was placed.

 

[thesunspear]

I really hope you are town