Mafia Zexy Games Mafia - Endgame - 11/14/2016

[HumanDawn]

Your vote was applied to the concept but not to the player in order to figure anything out. You just quoted the "What Typical Town Should Do" rulebook and went with it, without taking your nose out of the pages and actually pushing for clarification. It's fluff, because unless you expect your vote to have subliminally applied questions to it, your vote didn't actually do anything because of a lack of purpose. It's elementary.

I get what you're trying to say but I'm struggling to see how this applies to Ghostly?

 

[Seth Rollins]

Derped a lot in my last post. Stuff happened, now to clear everything up. Also noticed edits aren't allowed, sorry.

@HumanDawn @Elieson Yeah, I get it now. Thanks for clearing it up.

@AussieEevee Forgive me for that mistake. I wanted to say your reason for voting HumanDawn was vague. You're calling him vague while being vague yourself. I also dislike your need to state to everyone that you hate bandwagons. Mafia tend to use that tactic, you know.

@Ghostly You're not wrong on Elieson, but you are implying Elementar is scummier than WolfOwl? What Elementar did could have very easily been bad play, while what WolfOwl did seemed like the simple Mafia trick of getting the attention out of them: the "I don't care whether I'm lynched or not, just do it". It doesn't matter whether he was joking or not, it doesn't change the method he's using in my eyes.

 

[Feenie]

@Ghostly You're not wrong on Elieson, but you are implying Elementar is scummier than WolfOwl? What Elementar did could have very easily been bad play, while what WolfOwl did seemed like the simple Mafia trick of getting the attention out of them: the "I don't care whether I'm lynched or not, just do it". It doesn't matter whether he was joking or not, it doesn't change the method he's using in my eyes.

Right now I really don't know what to think or what to say about Wolf. I initially just saw the self-vote thing as a joke and nothing more. However I am in hindsight taking into account what Human is saying about her and I am starting to see the more 'suspicious' (idk that sounds really strong for what I'm saying but there's a lack of a better word here) side of actions. My vote on Elementar is not meant to be taken as a defense of Wolf in any way if it is. In fact I'm hardly mentioning Wolf herself in any way, I'm just confused about the whole joke thing and I really need that clarified honestly. All in all I'm feeling very null on Wolf at the moment-- not too comfortable saying one way or the other.

 

[FinalArcadia]

Confirmed.

Vote: Seth Rollins
You broke up the shield! WHY?!

I'm really surprised to see the Wolfowl wagon get up to 4 votes. I really don't like that. What WO did was counterproductive sure, but the game just started. I don't think what she did warranted a 4 vote wagon.

You're addressing the current situation in-thread here in that last few sentences of your post... yet you end up putting just a seemingly joke vote on Seth? If you think that WolfOwl doesn't warrant the wagon, then who do you think is more likely to be scum? Unless you have a legitimate reason for voting Seth that you didn't mention.

i also announced why I was doing it in that other game. Here I did it partially seriously. Human votes me seriously over a Zexy vote so I decided to abuse my vote to both make a joke and to see what the result would be.

Just becaise it didn't work once doesn't mean it won't work this time. Can I have a reason for being scum that isn't a host VOTE and something completely in my behavior?

That you're calling it both partially a serious selfvote but also a partial joke vote makes it more baffling to me because it seems like an "easy" answer that handwaves the fact that voting yourself is almost never beneficial for town by hiding it behind a "partially a joke" reason.

A reason without the host vote is that you didn't respond to Human's vote on you - which was presented seriously - in the slightest initially, instead voting yourself. You're also generally very aggressive as town right out of the gate and wanting to get people talking by placing pressure votes. I understand that you're out of town I think for now, but the selfvote still doesn't accomplish the goals that you seem to work toward as town.

But there is only one Gundam character being themed from one of you?? I never saw the series of the character that Ghostly has a theme of though.

Ghostly's avatar is actually the original Gundam protag: Amuro Ray. Back from 1979... though I think the actual avatar picture is from the later Char's Counterattack where his hair was uglier lol

I just found it OOC that their first post when the game started was just confirming and not doing anything else. Like, the others I either get why they wouldn't because of potential inexperience or because they just aren't the kind of players to do it, but with both Ghostly and FA I just expect more.

Yeah, I can kinda get your point here, though I have said before that I tend to wait to speak up until I have something to actually talk about. Which isn't so good since it doesn't help get conversation initially started, but I have a hard time with that sort of thing. I was also in the middle of playing Castlevania: Lament of Innocence as I confirmed

 

[Snowy]

Eevee, do you think HD or WolfOwl are scum? If so, why? If not, why? You seem like you're mostly disagreeing with the idea of what's happening, rather than finding it actually scummy aka suspicious.

I don't have enough to go on to judge Wolfowl, but HumanDawn's posts have been suspicious to me... and I stated my reasons why in most of my posts so far.

 

[Snowy]

Also noticed edits aren't allowed, sorry.

They are, as long as you aren't changing or removing information/evidence. You can edit your grammar/spelling. The moderators (Which includes this game's host) can see a post's entire edit history, so if disputes come up, they can see if the accused did change/remove information.

Editing or deleting to add or remove information from your posts in the thread of an ongoing game in which you are a player is forbidden. Edits solely for spelling, grammatical, or formatting purposes are permitted. The Moderator on Duty is able to check post histories, so we will know if and how you edit a post. A game is defined as "ongoing" once role PMs have been sent and remains "ongoing" until the game concludes. To compensate for this post restriction, players are permitted to make consecutive posts in an ongoing game's thread if necessary. An example of a situation in which you may wish to make another consecutive post is if you notice that you left some information out or you simply need to clarify something.

@AussieEevee Forgive me for that mistake. I wanted to say your reason for voting HumanDawn was vague. You're calling him vague while being vague yourself. I also dislike your need to state to everyone that you hate bandwagons. Mafia tend to use that tactic, you know.

How is my reason for voting HD vague? I gave my reason and had a strong reason for doing so. You might not agree with it, but I don't see how you call it vague.

Also, I wasn't stating to everyone that I hate bandwagons. That post was directed at HD.

 

[Seth Rollins]

Right now I really don't know what to think or what to say about Wolf. I initially just saw the self-vote thing as a joke and nothing more. However I am in hindsight taking into account what Human is saying about her and I am starting to see the more 'suspicious' (idk that sounds really strong for what I'm saying but there's a lack of a better word here) side of actions. My vote on Elementar is not meant to be taken as a defense of Wolf in any way if it is. In fact I'm hardly mentioning Wolf herself in any way, I'm just confused about the whole joke thing and I really need that clarified honestly. All in all I'm feeling very null on Wolf at the moment-- not too comfortable saying one way or the other.

I never pictured you defending Wolf. In fact, I like your posts for now. I'm trying to tell you why I don't see Wolf as a bad lynching choice.

@AussieEevee Thanks for bringing up the rules, but yeah I know that. I added info in my post, won't happen again.

Your reasons being strong and not vague are VERY arguable. First you said, he gave directions and not reasons, then you say his posts aren't thorough enough, when most of his posts have been. And finally you say that him jumping on people defending Wolf is suss even when he defended himself with a good point. Also when you post info here, the Info is for everyone to see. You said you dislike bandwagons, everyone saw it.

@Daiya You like staying silent don't you?

 

[Feenie]

I never pictured you defending Wolf. In fact, I like your posts for now. I'm trying to tell you why I don't see Wolf as a bad lynching choice.

Ah alright thanks just wanted to make sure that was clear though to everyone in case it came across as such.

UNVOTE: Elementar.

I'm now confused on the joke-vote thing, and I'm not feeling as good about it as I initially did so voting him isn't making as much sense. Plus I won't feel right unless he comes in and explains it himself. Subject to change.

 

[jdthebud]

You put quotation marks around "joke votes;" how are you reading the votes on WolfOwl then? And I don't completely understand your vote. It feels disconnected from most of the action when you're not addressing hardly anything that has happened outside of "wow, that escalated"-filler comment that says nothing about any of the votes/posts related to that so far while simultaneously not giving much of a reason for why you're voting Eevee. And I find filler-y posts like that to be scummy when they can make scum look engaged without actually being so.

I put quotes around joke votes because there still were some joke votes being made at the time so it was more a reference to the RVS still being semi ative then reading them all as joke votes - only WO's and Elementar's votes on the BW were presented as such, HD and Elieson's votes seemed to be more serious.

My vote wasn't completely a scumread on AE but more of a pressure vote as I felt his reasoning for voting HD was soft - I might seem to be guilty of the same thing but I knew it was more of a pressure vote, but didn't want to say so since that would negate the actual pressure.

That being said, I agree with Seth above, AE still hasn't really explained his reasoning very well, so my vote stays on him.

As for why I'm not really responding directly to the other posts so far, I find that I would be repeating mostly stuff that has been said already, and I don't want to just fluff up the thread.

 

[jdthebud]

Ah alright thanks just wanted to make sure that was clear though to everyone in case it came across as such.

UNVOTE: Elementar.

I'm now confused on the joke-vote thing, and I'm not feeling as good about it as I initially did so voting him isn't making as much sense. Plus I won't feel right unless he comes in and explains it himself. Subject to change.

Can you clarify what you are confused about?

 

[Midorikawa]

Since it's clear scum is trying to lynch me I'll force them to nightkill me. I'm vigilante. I will be using it come night phase if I don't get lynched over the ridiculous reasoning in this bandwagon.

 

[HumanDawn]

Since it's clear scum is trying to lynch me I'll force them to nightkill me. I'm vigilante. I will be using it come night phase if I don't get lynched over the ridiculous reasoning in this bandwagon.

Claiming that it is just ridiculous is not helping...

Anyone wanna cc vig?

 

[Pikochu]

Oh wow, so much has happened on Day 1. Lets see what are my thoughts so far:

WolfOwl Wagon: Elieson and Elementar aren't looking too good after the Wolfowl self-vote. I mean, it was clearly a joke vote and yet, they decided to join the wagon as if the vote was serious. Personally, I don't know why Elementar is getting so much flank for joining on a wagon that's a joke while Elieson gets a free pass.

I just found the second scum.

Elementar and Alex Kaz are probably Town.

I feel like the last Mafia is either Ghostly or FinalArcadia.

Do you have clear evidence for the reason why you townread and why you scumread?

Wait... I feel like Molten Eevee would have made more of an effort instead of just disagreeing iif he were scum.

Relying on meta I see.

Why are you convinced Elementar and Alex are town? And why are you sure Ghostly or FinalArcadia are scum?

@HumanDawn I am wondering that also.

Ok but really I don't like this Wolf bandwagon either, it's really not sitting well with me. I'm mainly looking at Elementar. A joke vote is adding a pointless vote at the beginning of the phase that doesn't add literally anything-- it doesn't contribute to a wagon, it isn't a threat to anyone. This vote obviously added to a wagon. It wasn't a joke, even if it was intended to be. So I'm just going to go ahead and

VOTE: Elementar.

The thing is, I find Elie's joining on the wagon to be just as bad as Elementar's. Why there wasn't much discussion on Elie's vote as Elementar's vote?

@AussieEevee How is HD supposed to be more thorough than this?

Making it more clear.

I made a clear and cut case on WolfOwl,

No you haven't.

My vote isn't a joke vote.

I'm confused now. Is this Schrodinger's joke vote now?

 

[Pikochu]

Do you think Elementar, or anyone really, would dare to try to rush a wagon that hard as scum, and take the risk of associating themselves permanently with the early D1 turbowagon?

Unless this is some hard-ass WIFOM, which after being scum with Elementar in the past, I don't see that as something he is comfortably capable of without incredible motivation.

That's what I thought over the Elementar wagon. I don't know what motivation mafia has to make it that obvious for not a strong wagon.

 

[Midorikawa]

That's what I thought over the Elementar wagon. I don't know what motivation mafia has to make it that obvious for not a strong wagon.

The difference between Elementar an Elie is the words an timing. Elie was the third vote and his reason was agreeing with humans flawed reasoning. Elementar was the fourth vote and said it was a joke VOTE despite no one else saying that.

@HumanDawn I'm about to hope on a plane ride, land late at night, get up the next day, and work. I can't be bothered to waste my time on an attack that is lies because I have not done anything outside of my playstyle. And now I'm an even larger nightkill for mafia and am probably going to die tonight. I'm not going to waste time and I'll just give what I have no doubt the mafia on the wagon want. My role. I'm helping by giving town a chance to actually scumhunt today via reasoning that isn't lies. Though I'm sure you're worried I'll target you tonight and I just might. You are pulling exactly what I pull as mafia to get mislynches.

 

[Elementar]

I'm here. I'll be back in a minute, just going for a bike ride. I'll answer all of your questions, but it looks like I succeeded.

 

[Pikochu]

Succeeded in what?

 

[Elementar]

Were you legitimately joke voting in placing the 4th vote? Additionally, do you find WolfOwl suspicious now?

There was absolutely no reason for my vote. That classifies as a joke vote. I never found WolfOwl suspicious.

UNVOTE: WolfOwl

Alright @Elementar Was the Wolf vote a legit joke. Since this is really the only way to get a good answer from anyone because who better to ask.

See above.

Succeeded in what?

Creating discussion. I knew my vague joke vote on a joke BW would create discussion, and I'm sick of boring Day 1s where all the information we get is from the inevitable mislynch. So, I created some discussion and two sides formed. I know see HD and Elieson as town, because they've read the situation really well. Pikochu looks pretty good from my end too. But there were quite a few people who thought that scum!me could've done something as stupid as this. However, I think I've succeeded in creating some good arguments and posts.

Placing the fourth vote on someone is a joke vote? BS

Unvote: Wolfowl
Vote:Elementar

Surely you know my meta well enough to understand that even I wouldn't do something like that for no reason.

Welp, so much for the joke voting.
@WolfOwl do you think scum!Elementar would try something so obvious though?

Thankyou.

Ok but really I don't like this Wolf bandwagon either, it's really not sitting well with me. I'm mainly looking at Elementar. A joke vote is adding a pointless vote at the beginning of the phase that doesn't add literally anything-- it doesn't contribute to a wagon, it isn't a threat to anyone. This vote obviously added to a wagon. It wasn't a joke, even if it was intended to be. So I'm just going to go ahead and

VOTE: Elementar.

It doesn't add pressure if I take it off next post, especially when other people remove their vote from it.

Wow that escalated from "confirmed" to 4 quick "joke votes" on WO in one page? That's not something that happens very often.

Quick escalation = more talking.

Any other questions?

 

[Zexy]

DAY 1 VOTE COUNT

WolfOwl IV (HumanDawn, Elieson, Elementar, FinalArcadia)
HumanDawn II (Alex Kaz, AussieEevee)
Elieson I (Seth Rollins)
AussieEevee I (jdthebud)
Seth Rollins I (Giles)
Elementar I (WolfOwl)

 

[Feenie]

Can you clarify what you are confused about?

I was confused about Elementar's intentions on the Wolf-wagon vote. We've got Human and Elieson who are both strangely insistent on it having some deeper meaning, but it turns out it really was just a... joke vote.

Anyhow I don't think scum would claim vig so either Wolf is town or of an independent faction.

VOTE: Elementar.

I did say that my unvote was subject to change after he came in and explained himself. It was a dangerous move for nothing more than a "joke vote" and I really still don't think it classifies as a joke vote because he was trying to drum up discussion (succeeded so that's good. scummy move imo but still) and I thought a joke vote was more like "hey whoever how you doing [proceeds to vote the person they said hi to]" type of thing not voting someone who has a wagon going on and trying to generate discussion. Sorry if any of this is worded confusingly/weirdly I took nyquil but that won't take responsibility for anything I say