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Mafia Holiday Mafia 2016 - Endgame: Krampusnacht (Mafia and Indep Victory) 7/1/17

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I think DB is a bad lynch. If he's town he's a good town member to have . And his claim would be easy to prove. Plus why claim 1x? Also i can tell but feel uneasy about his responses to things about me being an indep. They don't feel like mafia responses. I also don't like lynching off a claim
 
DrumBeats said:
That's grasping for straws there Elementar. Nobody still suspects FA. I laid out that case knowing that I am the current lynch target, and saying that FA is the one of us PPs that would be the least likely to be alive right now if town. Once I die tonight, you will see the logic checks out. You asked the question, I gave an answer, don't villainize me for answering your question.
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I'm not villainizing you. You did answer my question, but talking about how FA is the most likely scum due to the circumstances isn't what I asked. That was an additional piece of information you shared, and I was suspicious of it.

WolfOwl said:
I think DB is a bad lynch. If he's town he's a good town member to have . And his claim would be easy to prove. Plus why claim 1x? Also i can tell but feel uneasy about his responses to things about me being an indep. They don't feel like mafia responses. I also don't like lynching off a claim
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1 x gives them an excuse not to be able to use their role, so they don't need to give their results.

Btw, @DrumBeats, do you lose your shot if you are role-blocked?

And WolfOwl, please explain that independent thing actually. You've acknowledged them, but you haven't explained at all why you were saying you're town.

Now, I've been quiet for several real lie reasons, such as birthdays, appointments, playing Pokemon Moon and other late Christmas get-togethers. But I find it highly worrying that you've only pointed me out when others such as FA have been more inactive lately and there are still people who haven't posted. Because I've become a little more quiet (which has got nothing to do with the game), I'm being suspected. That can be said about a lot of other players, so I don't know why it's just me and it warrants a vote. You're not lyncher, are you?
 
DrumBeats said:
I wouldn't have acted so quickly. You had a cop to use. That instance wasn't even me being pissed about it (though I'll admit most of the other posts after were because it was still fresh). That post was me explaining to you why people are hesitant to claim to you. I sure as hell wouldn't have claimed to you had you just outed another one instantly.
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I didn't act quickly either. Then again I was basing it off what the Cop said and just went with their judgement, which I guess I could have put more thought into, but you could blame my paranoia over your slot. Game stress is really getting to me and this I only outed one claim that was found suspicious out of every claim. It doesn't make sense to me to be hesitant for outing only one claim. The way you worded it was annoying about how FinalArcadia could not be claiming over paranoia. It just looked like an attempt to spite and guilt trip me over just outing your one claim over everyone else's over very little reasoning. I understand making jabs from time to time due to frustration but it just came off as really out of line to me. Like, really, did what I do was REALLY that horrible to you to justify being THAT annoyed? In just a recent game of mine I had a Watcher role with three results on one player. I suspected one player was Mafia from the three and outed that they used a Night Action. Granted it wasn't a private communications game but still, wouldn't it be better to have these kind of arguments out in-thread for people to determine and see how their decisions from what they analysed go and affect the game? The fact of the matter to me is that while your initial frustration was understandable to me your attitude a few posts ago... just wasn't.

WolfOwl said:
I think DB is a bad lynch. If he's town he's a good town member to have . And his claim would be easy to prove. Plus why claim 1x? Also i can tell but feel uneasy about his responses to things about me being an indep. They don't feel like mafia responses. I also don't like lynching off a claim
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1) It's Day 3. I don't think "If he's Town he'd be good to have!" flies at this point.
2) Back-Up 1x shot Cop is not easy to prove.
3) I don't see how claiming 1x has to do with anything.
4) What about them don't feel like Mafia responses?
5) It's not claim only.

WolfOwl said:
Also human is claiming that jds role is town, and jd said that his role makes it make sense for their to be a backup cop.
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It can exist as Town and it's true what jdthebud says. I only said that I can see how it can make sense to exist.

WolfOwl said:
Unvote: jdthebud
Vote: Elementar

Anyone notice how he's been really quiet since the pressure beens off him?
Click to expand...

At this point I think it's better if you stick it to jdthebud.

Oh, and a reason I thought of that might have given you the impression that I was being pushy was because this might really be the last chance Town has to lynch Mafia. If there are 3 Mafia and they really have the power to make somebody lose their vote, say we mislynch now and they kill tomorrow. 9 players. 3 Mafia, 1 Independent, 5 Town. Independent + 3 Mafia = 4 Voting power. Town loses a vote because of the Mafia. It's 4 votes vs 4 votes tomorrow. Tie happens. Mafia Nightkills. Mafia wins. Now do you understand why I really wanted to know Hellcrow's claim?
 
HumanDawn said:
I didn't act quickly either. Then again I was basing it off what the Cop said and just went with their judgement, which I guess I could have put more thought into, but you could blame my paranoia over your slot. Game stress is really getting to me and this I only outed one claim that was found suspicious out of every claim. It doesn't make sense to me to be hesitant for outing only one claim. The way you worded it was annoying about how FinalArcadia could not be claiming over paranoia. It just looked like an attempt to spite and guilt trip me over just outing your one claim over everyone else's over very little reasoning. I understand making jabs from time to time due to frustration but it just came off as really out of line to me. Like, really, did what I do was REALLY that horrible to you to justify being THAT annoyed? In just a recent game of mine I had a Watcher role with three results on one player. I suspected one player was Mafia from the three and outed that they used a Night Action. Granted it wasn't a private communications game but still, wouldn't it be better to have these kind of arguments out in-thread for people to determine and see how their decisions from what they analysed go and affect the game? The fact of the matter to me is that while your initial frustration was understandable to me your attitude a few posts ago... just wasn't.



1) It's Day 3. I don't think "If he's Town he'd be good to have!" flies at this point.
2) Back-Up 1x shot Cop is not easy to prove.
3) I don't see how claiming 1x has to do with anything.
4) What about them don't feel like Mafia responses?
5) It's not claim only.



It can exist as Town and it's true what jdthebud says. I only said that I can see how it can make sense to exist.



At this point I think it's better if you stick it to jdthebud.

Oh, and a reason I thought of that might have given you the impression that I was being pushy was because this might really be the last chance Town has to lynch Mafia. If there are 3 Mafia and they really have the power to make somebody lose their vote, say we mislynch now and they kill tomorrow. 9 players. 3 Mafia, 1 Independent, 5 Town. Independent + 3 Mafia = 4 Voting power. Town loses a vote because of the Mafia. It's 4 votes vs 4 votes tomorrow. Tie happens. Mafia Nightkills. Mafia wins. Now do you understand why I really wanted to know Hellcrow's claim?
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Wait are you saying jd has a neutral role?

I doubt they can do that to more than one person. It'd be too op.

@Elementar not sure what indep thing you mean. Also FA kept us up to date that she was busy. you were just quiet.


Unvote: Elementae
 
WolfOwl said:
Wait are you saying jd has a neutral role?

I doubt they can do that to more than one person. It'd be too op.

@Elementar not sure what indep thing you mean. Also FA kept us up to date that she was busy. you were just quiet.


Unvote: Elementae
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No, just that it doesn't prove anything. Do to more than one person? One is just enough to get a tie and win if it's a Night Action to use on somebody that you can change who to make voteless. The game's state feels kind of hopeless but that might just be me being melodramatic. If we're that bad of a spot then GG Mafia, I tried.
 
Elementar said:
@WolfOwl, the thing DrumBeats pointed out. You were talking about being town-aligned, not an independent.
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I answers that. I'm helping town so I said town aligned.
HumanDawn said:
No, just that it doesn't prove anything. Do to more than one person? One is just enough to get a tie and win if it's a Night Action to use on somebody that you can change who to make voteless. The game's state feels kind of hopeless but that might just be me being melodramatic. If we're that bad of a spot then GG Mafia, I tried.
Click to expand...

I get the feeling it might be one time and only against you. Though lynching strictly off claims gives them the advantage and apparently I missed it but I don't remember you making a real case against DB. Heck this thread has been so flip floppy on him. Which is why I feel like this is a really bad lynch.
 
Well, right now, DB is in the lead for votes with 3, with HD's null vote on him as well. I have 2. @WolfOwl if you think DB is a bad lynch then put your vote back on me, don't just unvote.
 
Alright, reads list inbound, just letting you guys know I haven't forgotten about it since it could take time.
 
Alright, rereading took way longer than I thought and though I'm only part of the way into Day 2 I want to get thoughts out.

Human - Likely town but very stubborn. Pushed one lead (me) from the beginning with little evidence but kept acting positive it was true. Cop check probably makes him town.

Elementar - Very shaky early game, looked better a little bit later. I would definitely look into Elementar more. His refusal to cause a tie D1 is very telling imo.

Max1996 - Very scummy. Refuses to answer most questions because he isn't sure, but the whole game is about suspicions, not certainty. Sharing suspicions and talking about them is the only way to make progress and he refuses to do so.

Wolf Owl - Claimed independent but very sketchy imho. One big thing that pinged me earlier in my reread was that Wolf ciritcized Darth's poor but original reasoning for voting Cheff, but never criticized Max's OMGus vote on Jd. I could see Wolf and Max as a likely scumpair - as they have buddied often.

Jdthebud:

D1 - Joke vote on DB

D1 - Unvote DB, vocalizes lack of targets. [On day one this seems pointless. Just an excuse for inaction imo]

D2 - Votes Max1996 for being sure of scum being on the Dylan (Town) wagon. Asks him if he thinks that DrumBeats is scum. [Good look and reasonable opinion imo]


Max1996:

D1 - Joke vote on Dylan (Town)

N1 - Says that there is definitely scum among the SoaringDylan votes other than himself. (DarthWolf13, DrumBeats, Alex Kaz, FinalArcadia) [Blaming everyone else on the lynch wagon for it isn’t a good look, though the fact that his vote was a joke vote makes it fair. I don’t like that he uses the word “definiteJly” given the fact that he refuses to dig further later]

D2 - Says he is not certain if DB is mafia - needs more info. [Refusing to answer a question due to lack of certainty. Does not even give an opinion of what might be there, just refuses to answer. Bad look]

D2 - Claims that scum would try to get the town lynched, which is why he thinks someone from the vote on Dylan (Town) is mafia. [Reasonable newbie opinion, though misguided because the bandwagon was small, and the alignment of the second choice was unknown]

D2 - Claims that the fact that a joke vote turned into a bandwagon makes those on it likely to be scum. [Sounds more like bad reasoning than anything malicious imo.]

D2 - OMGus votes Jdthebud [Looks bad because Max is sure one on the Dylan bandwagon is scum, why vote off of it then?]

D2 - “I don’t know” about where to point fingers in the Dylan (Town) wagon [Again avoiding any direct suspicions. Won’t even give a most likely]

D2 - Says DB could be scum - if so one of Darth, Kaz (Town), or FinalArcadia are likely scum too. [First solid opinion he’s given in a while. It’s not a bad one.]




Elementar:

D1 - Disagrees with lynch on DrumBeats and townreads HumanDawn and Kaz (Town).

N1 - Says that he did not want to tie the vote and let somebody else break the tie in an unwanted way [This reads to me as he didn’t want to be blamed for a mislynch. Bad look imo]

D2 - Tells Max that scum often avoid mislynch wagons. [Good look, letting a newbie know what typically happens]

D2 - Tells Max that there was reasoning behind the Dylan (Town) votes, asks who he would have voted. [I like the push for information from him.]


Doctor Floptopus:

D1 - No joke vote because other people already voted the new players.


Pikochu:


WolfOwl:

D1 - Sheeps Human’s DrumBeats vote (Second Vote) [WolfOwl is a player I expect more from, so the sheeping doesn’t sit well with me. Given the independent claim though, it would make sense that Wolf wouldn’t really care if we lynched mafia or not with it]

N1 - Tells Max not to jump to the conclusion that there had to be mafia on the mislynch. FoS’es Elementar for avoiding the lynch options. States that those who voted for SoaringDylan (Town) had good reasoning. [This looks very good to me. Both opinions seem genuine and match what I noted on my reread.]

D2 - Votes Elementar for avoiding bandwagons and for discouraging the idea that there was scum on either DrumBeats or Dylan’s (Town) wagons. [The reasoning of avoiding bandwagons is solid, but Elementar never discouraged the idea that there was scum on either wagon. He said he did not believe there had to be scum on the Dylan (Town) wagon. Looks like fabricated reasoning imo due to the twisting of Elementar’s words.]

D2 - Calls out DarthWolf for poor reasoning on Cheff vote, tells Max to look at their posts to see if anything sticks out [Doesn’t look too bad, though I find it weird that Wolf did not also call out Max’s poor reasoning for the OMGus vote on jdthebud. I could see a WolfOwl and Max scumpair]


DarthWolf13:

D1 - Joke Vote on Soaring Dylan (Town - Second Vote)

D1 - Joke Newbie fight with Cheff

D2 - Votes Cheff for bandwagoning Wolf, thinking he’s either a sheep or a scumpartner [Not good reasoning but that’s expected of a new player. The fact that he’s willing to give it though makes me lean good on it, but mostly null read here]


Hellcrow:

D2 - Finally speaks and asks Wolf, Human, and Elementar about the Dylan (Town) vote reasoning [Minimal contribution, but seems to be trying to get the town to see each other’s side. Decent look, but the inactivity is suspect.]


FinalArcadia:

D1 - Joke votes Doctor Flop

D1 - Questions Elementar for not voting to help DrumBeats, Questions DrumBeats for not suspecting Human [Good questioning to get some day one info]

D1 - Votes for SoaringDylan (Town - Third vote)

N1 - Brings up that Dylan (Town) never claimed to suspect DrumBeats and DrumBeats’s profile said he was not online at the time.

D2 - Vote on Elementar for his indecisiveness on D1, asks Max if he thinks DrumBeats was scum being saved, and asks Darth if his suspicion of Cheff means he town reads Elementar. [Pushing for good information, though his question to Max seems a bit leading to a “DB is scum” conclusion.]


HumanDawn:

D1 - Joke vote on CheffofGames (Town)

D1 - Joke vote on Ghostly (Town - Second vote)

D1 - Criticizes joke votes of FinalArcadia + DrumBeats, and criticizes lack of vote from Flop and Soaring Dylan (Town) [I find this odd, considering Human had also joke voted not once but twice]

D1 - Vote on DrumBeats for voting him. [I find this odd as well, as he’s basically OMGusing a joke vote. He expected more from my first post, yet he was actively posting and had already made two joke votes. Though props to him for starting discussion on actual lynches]

D1 - Pushes for activity [This looks good imo]

N1 - Criticizes Kaz’s (Town) saying Dylan’s (Town) vote had nonexistant reasoning. Claimed Kaz’s vote had nonexistant reasoning. Criticize’s FinalArcadia’s vote on Dylan (Town) as well, claiming that there was no reason for Dylan (Town) to be lynched over DrumBeats. [I don’t like how sure he is that I am scum based on non-existent reasoning. As you guys will see soon, I am not, yet he is positive that I am and ridiculed all those who did not believe it.]

D2 - Votes Hellcrow for inactivity, Tells Max that pointing fingers would help his case, still slightly suspicious of DrumBeats. [Looks genuine, pushing for activity and trying to get some info out of Max.]

D2 - Doesn’t answer Hellcrow’s question about what WolfOwl could be seeing [Sticking to his guns from earlier. Very stubborn townie or scum trying to take out a PP]
 
Final Arcadia - Looks very towny from the posts - I'm inclined to believe her right now. Only thing is that its hard for me to justify FA still being alive due to that, since she is a huge threat to the scumteam if not a part of it.

Hellcrow - Intentionally lurking and providing very little. Not a fan of the strategy, and lean it to be scummy.
 
Night 3: All Tied Up
  • Index
    • 1. @jdthebud
    2. @Max1996
    3. @Elementar
    4. @Doctor Floptopus
    5. @Pikochu
    7. @Soaringdylan
    8. @WolfOwl
    9. @CheffOfGames
    10. @DarthWolf13
    11. @Alex Kaz
    12. @DrumBeats
    13. @Hellcrow
    14. @FinalArcadia
    15. @HumanDawn
    @Enzap @TheCapsFan @Zexy
    @AussieEevee @BadAssGardevoir

    Final Vote Count:
    jdthebud III (FinalArcadia, DrumBeats, WolfOwl)
    DrumBeats III (Elementar, DarthWolf13, jdthebud, HumanDawn)

    Night 3: All Tied Up

    Another day passed, but the town continued to remain in a hopeless deadlock.
    It seemed as though they were perpetually stuck between a hard place and a rock.
    Alas, their hesitance gave an advantage to the vile evildoers.
    Since, as yet, the heroes had uncovered none of their pursuers.

    It is now Night 3. The phase will end at 11:00pm U.S. Central Standard Time on 28/12/16.
     
    Last edited:
  • Index
    • (Also sorry for the multi-post here, but I'm trying to ensure I get something through by lynch)

    DarthWolf - Strikes me more as town than mafia, though some of the reasoning is poor, Darth keeps providing it and coming up with unique reasoning.

    Jdthebud - I've been getting very mixed reads from him. I'll add more on him in my post-reread reads now that I know I hae time for it.

    And oh, we have another tie. I guess I can continue my reread then!
     
    Jdthebud-Humans says has townie claim
    2. Max1996-Human says has townie claim
    Elementar-unknown. Bad earlier phases not as active due to holidays later phases. Unknown information
    4. Doctor Floptopus-does not exist basically. Unknown information.
    Pikochu-copchecked
    8. @WolfOwl-clearly scum
    10. Darthwolf13-looks like newbie town. Unknown information
    12. DrumBeats-1xbqckup cop
    13. Hellcrow-good claim
    14. FinalArcadia-tempted to lynch due to pure paranoia because I can never tell with her. Unknown information
    15. HumanDawn-copchecked


    According to known in thread information which I compiled here-FA, Elementar, DarkWolf, and doc flop are our unknowns. It wouldn't surprise me if at least three of them were mafia and the reason they're safe is because they've been flying low and thus avoided attention. Darthwolf has had the most attention of the four and he's a new player so it's possible that we haven't truly noticed his plays like normal, however that also makes him the least threatening.
     
    This might have been for the best. There's still stuff I don't know about and another night to get information would be really needed.

    Also, I just love how misused the term OMGUS is.

    I need this time to go over the thread.
     
    @DrumBeats, you slightly misinterpreted one of my earlier posts. You said in your reread that I said somebody else could vote to get an unwanted lynch. I was just saying that I wasn't confident in any other the BWs, so my vote had no reasoning and I didn't feel comfortable in making one. I knew that tying up the votes would have become redundant after more votes, seen later on in the game.
     
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