Mafia The Pokemon Starters Mafia (Mafia Wins)

[MMMMMMMMMMMMM]

I'm not sure @Zexy and @HumanDawn are completely cleared; it could be a strategy involving a large number of mafia. But that's not likely. What was the justification for the BW on @Pikochu anyway? Just a lucky guess?

 

[jdthebud]

@MMMMMMMMMMMMM Looking back it was mostly HD saying that he wanted to avoid lynching MCH and Elementar, and he encouraged Zexy and Sunsette to follow. That's partly why I view HD and Zexy as cleared town, it makes no sense for them to start a BW that late in the day when there were other options at the time, especially since Zexy had actually changed his vote from Pikochu onto MCH (I think) and Pikochu had 0 votes on him.

 

[Space]

Space: A bit iffy about them showing up late to side with the piko lynch without actually voting.

I didn't see a point to voting when Pikochu already had the majority at that point. If, say, someone voted M*13 and it was a tie, then I would have.

Anyway could there be some significance regarding Pikochu's decision to vote M*13? Sure he didn't agree with the votes against mch in the first place, but he probably would have had a better chance of him (mch) being lynched over M*13. There wasn't really a case against M*13- Hell Crow's vote was a joke one and Molten Eevee's was about M*13's strange logic and kind of an OMGUS vote.

Also this was a reply Pikochu made to M*13:

Welcome to The War Room. I suggest being more careful in the timing for the joke vote as there was already some serious discussion in the game already.

He acknowledges here that M*13 is new and likely to make some mistakes. Which I guess is why I find it odd he would choose to vote M*13 over mch.

 

[Calvinッ]

I dont believe Zexy and HumanDawn would have bussed so early on, if times were dire, and the lynchee was already under threat from being lynched, then they would have started the lynch. They are both Town in my book.

RS is a little weird to me. I cant tell if they have actually formed their own reads, or are trying to fit into town by copying someone elses reads.

I dont have much else to talk about to be honest, just thought I'd post to show my current thoughts on the game.

 

[ReturnofMCH]

I dont believe Zexy and HumanDawn would have bussed so early on, if times were dire, and the lynchee was already under threat from being lynched, then they would have started the lynch. They are both Town in my book.

RS is a little weird to me. I cant tell if they have actually formed their own reads, or are trying to fit into town by copying someone elses reads.

I dont have much else to talk about to be honest, just thought I'd post to show my current thoughts on the game.

rainbow skittles is an experienced player, as I have played games with him in the past and known him outside of mafia since at least 2012 iirc.
so if he's trying to copy someone else's reads, it wouldn't make any sense for a player of his level.
however I might be wrong, as there's no concrete proof about that.

 

[Midorikawa]

I dont believe Zexy and HumanDawn would have bussed so early on, if times were dire, and the lynchee was already under threat from being lynched, then they would have started the lynch. They are both Town in my book.

RS is a little weird to me. I cant tell if they have actually formed their own reads, or are trying to fit into town by copying someone elses reads.

I dont have much else to talk about to be honest, just thought I'd post to show my current thoughts on the game.

Human actually explained RS SOME. all in all he's a strange player. It's hard to get much from him. I think he actually admitted to being Mafia once. Though considering zexy is a scum read they're probably his own.

 

[HumanDawn]

@MMMMMMMMMMMMM

Anyway, do you have anything else to say? You've been mostly talking about the mechanics of the game and what we should do, but honestly I find that kind of discussion to be pretty unimportant, especially when IMO, the mechanics are not that interesting or going to affect the game that much at this stage. There's not that much we can do about the roles themselves. I'm not saying that it's bad, but that it's not really good and that it's better to be complimented with something else on the plate.

After Pikochu failed to follow up on this I suspected him and voted him.

@Calvin;

Word of advice: if you believe a lynch to be very bad; offer an alternative. The best defence is offence. People would be more willing to take you seriously if you voted for somebody else. Otherwise it makes you look like you don't have any other alternatives, and that you don't have enough confidence in ROMCH being Town that it would make you act any differently, so what you say is more likely to fall in deaf ears.

Was there anyone you might have voted in Day 1?

As for Elementar, I don't like how he just provided a list of inactives and didn't even bother to go as far as RNG the inactives to vote for. As others have stated, it seems that he's just trying to backtrack in the event of a mislynch.

This is an interesting post from Pikochu... Even without a vote, there already was a vote on him, so it could be that he was trying to light up the fire while letting somebody else vote to mislynch him?

I didn't see a point to voting when Pikochu already had the majority at that point. If, say, someone voted M*13 and it was a tie, then I would have.

Why not vote them already? There were many votes scattered; you not voting Pikochu made it much more likely for there to be a tie anyway, so better vote Pikochu to try to secure the lynch further in case they were scum and the votes could change. Midorikawa at least had decided to keep her vote on ROMCH and say that she did not mind on whoever the lynch ended up being on. To only vote when a tie would be made is ridiculous; they only had a majority by a mere few votes compared to the total amount of players. Anybody could have made a last second vote on M*13 for a tie, so I don't understand why you haven't apparently faced any paranoia in that possibility and instead voted Pikochu anyway.

Anyway could there be some significance regarding Pikochu's decision to vote M*13? Sure he didn't agree with the votes against mch in the first place, but he probably would have had a better chance of him (mch) being lynched over M*13. There wasn't really a case against M*13- Hell Crow's vote was a joke one and Molten Eevee's was about M*13's strange logic and kind of an OMGUS vote.

It was a preservation vote. Keep in mind that if M*13 is his scum partner then Pikochu would have been risking helping a lynch on a partner.

He acknowledges here that M*13 is new and likely to make some mistakes. Which I guess is why I find it odd he would choose to vote M*13 over mch.

It read more like somebody giving normal advice to somebody to me. Why not just say it in the Mafia QT?

I dont have much else to talk about to be honest, just thought I'd post to show my current thoughts on the game.

You're starting to sound like a broken record :/.

------

~rEaDs~

1) Zexy - Definitely Town. My previous small suspicions were mostly paranoia.

2) Sunsette - Definitely Town. An example of of a player that does not engage with most of the potential discussions but still manages to contribute throughout. All you "I'm not gonna vote or anything until I see something that catches my eyes" believers

3) Hellcrow - Uhh honestly, I don't know, but I expect them to post more? They haven't really said anything of worth so I'd like to see more of them.

4) Elementar - I'm leaning Town, not just because of Pikochu, but because they have been posting and look like they're actually trying to contribute and the get the game going somewhere. While they have had said some eyebrow raising things, they come off as inexperienced in some parts. Apparently according to Zexy he's usually more cautious as Town

5) Slife - Ehh I'm kind of mixed, they've made some good posts earlier on but their lack of action Day 1 is worrisome. I'd like to see more of them but I could see them as Town.

7) jdthebud - I'm not sure; they haven't done much and I guess they had that one interaction with Pikochu but I don't think it necessarily means anything. They've been posting but... what have they really been saying? I would like to see more from them.

8) White Crow - They gave two different reasons for their absence which I don't see how they would both count as different reasons together. "Family problems kept me from posting" and "I was simply waiting for the last moment to make my choice" (just post 9 minutes before??) imply different things with the first giving the impression that White Crow was inactive because they had no time to pay attention to what was going on, and thus couldn't post, and the second that they were paying attention but that they were waiting till the end of the day. I also don't see how him waiting till the end of the day to vote makes sense, because if "there's nothing certain to grab on day 1 voting is a shoot in the dark", then why wait till the last moment to vote if it's going to be a shot in the dark anyway. Am I the only one that's seeing what's weird with this or am I looking too much into it? Would love to hear some opinions on this. Scum lean...

9) Midorikawa - Leaning Town. Nothing which she has said is alarming and I feel like her motivations and intentions are not malicious; she makes sense, is pretty fair and lax. It's been ages since I've played with her so I don't know how much her scum game has improved but she's better than half the players here for sure.

10) HumanDawn - it me, a townie. a cute, cute pokemon.

11) Life - Hmmm.... Town I guess. They haven't said anything alarming and they have contributed a fair bit, posting their opinions, worrying about the Town going in a pointless debate and scumhunting. I'd like to see more anyway but they're a *thumbs up*.

12) RainbowSkittles - Yeah... a hard one to read. Pretty unpredictable. I think I understand most of their reads so I guess they've been putting thought to the game?

13) MMMMMMMMMMMMM - Despite all the nonsensical things they've been saying I'm leaning Town for now. Their confusion sounds genuine and they seem to want to understand the game. Looks like behaviour I'd expect from a Townie first timer. The Pikochu interactions make me think he's Town too but I'm wary of them.

14) Andrew1990 - zzzzzzzzz

15) Molten Eevee - Their behaviour isn't unexpected. Saying something like "Gee, that guy was Mafia last game, so they're Mafia again now!" is... such a risky thing to say as Mafia, which I would expect to be more cautious. I've also had experience with them saying weird things, me calling them out on it and it just all degrading into some pointless arguing between me and them (see Random Messages Mafia...). Even with all that I don't think they've done anything that offensive. They seem to be trying to contribute and try to get things done.

16) Space - Mafia. For sure, best to give up now tbh... Actually no, I'm kidding, but I do find her unsettling. She's been saying a few things but I disagree with her reasoning. Her saying that she would have voted Pikochu but didn't when the votes were scattered and that it didn't cross her mind to vote in case a tie happened out of paranoia brings out alarm bells; it's not the thought process I would expect a Townie to have with a vote count like that. S-Scum lean...

17) returnofmastercrazyhand - Definitely Town, and that lynch on Pikochu makes my theory incredibly likely. After having went through the thread again it fits the narrative of how the theory would make sense on how he's Town.

18) Calvin ッ- As I've said I feel like he has been being a broken record. I'll give him that he has acknowledged that he's not posting much repeatedly, even going as far as to say he's complaining about inactivity despite being inactive himself, but the consistency of it is worrying.

people i would not be ok with being went after as of now: (although i'd be interested in hearing if there's something new against them)

romch
zexy
sunsette
midorikawa
elementar
m*13
molteneevee
life
silfe

^from most to least

people i would be ok/not mind being went after as of now: (not necessarily to lynch but worth looking into more)

white crow
space
hellcrow
jdtbud
calvin
andrew1990
rainbowskittles

^from most to least

 

[HumanDawn]

8) White Crow - They gave two different reasons for their absence which I don't see how they would both count as different reasons together. "Family problems kept me from posting" and "I was simply waiting for the last moment to make my choice" (just post 9 minutes before??) imply different things with the first giving the impression that White Crow was inactive because they had no time to pay attention to what was going on, and thus couldn't post, and the second that they were paying attention but that they were waiting till the end of the day. I also don't see how him waiting till the end of the day to vote makes sense, because if "there's nothing certain to grab on day 1 voting is a shoot in the dark", then why wait till the last moment to vote if it's going to be a shot in the dark anyway. Am I the only one that's seeing what's weird with this or am I looking too much into it? Would love to hear some opinions on this. Scum lean...

Quoting this for emphasis.

 

[Zexy]

Finally got past my Internet problems for the most part (hopefully).

Won't go back there and quote stuff I just don't think it's needed at this point; Piko's lynch gave me some reads which are pretty much the same with Human's in #387 (except I guess I'm a bit more paranoid on M-13, weird progression and strange interactions with Piko).

I've been liking posts I agree with while my Internet was down, including Human's latest reads list which is pretty good; I'm leaning town on him as well.

 

[HumanDawn]

4) Elementar - I'm leaning Town, not just because of Pikochu, but because they have been posting and look like they're actually trying to contribute and the get the game going somewhere. While they have had said some eyebrow raising things, they come off as inexperienced in some parts. Apparently according to Zexy he's usually more cautious as Town

Whoops, meant to say "as Mafia" at the end there.

 

[HumanDawn]

2) Sunsette - Definitely Town. An example of of a player that does not engage with most of the potential discussions but still manages to contribute throughout. All you "I'm not gonna vote or anything until I see something that catches my eyes" believers

- better up your game and take her as an example!

 

[White Crow]

That's my point of voting MCH over Mr. Delicious. It gives you and excuse. No mafia is going to tie the votes to save their teammate, that is the one on the chopping blocks job. However saying something to help their teammate or voting another option to allow them that chance is something they can do to avoid death for helping the teammate if they know the right way to talk. As for planning it with them, we don't know if Piko's internet messed up, if it was one sided plan. We won't know until endgame and we get to see the QT. Only mafia can see the QT, and there is always the matter of someone checking or rather not checking.

You don't really have something concrete; for all I know you could have accused me of suspicious BWing if I voted Piko without participating, of inactivity if I didn't show up on D1 and of suspcicious if for example I just posted something and didn't vote.
You just are in need to accuse someone because people is really silent and I don't blame you, but all you are gonna get it a mislynch.

...? Did you not post because of inactivity, and not because you were waiting for your last moment to make your choice? I got two different explanations here for your lack of participation.

White Crow - They gave two different reasons for their absence which I don't see how they would both count as different reasons together. "Family problems kept me from posting" and "I was simply waiting for the last moment to make my choice" (just post 9 minutes before??) imply different things with the first giving the impression that White Crow was inactive because they had no time to pay attention to what was going on, and thus couldn't post, and the second that they were paying attention but that they were waiting till the end of the day.

Okay let me explain; first of all they are not diferent reasons. I was not able to check until yesterday around noon. When I was able to I had to read the 15 or something pages and I don't do that in 1 minute. As for the paying attention I never said that, now you are twisting my words to make it sound I was lurking all the time and waiting for a chance to help. So going for the point you brought if I was gonna help I would have given a more convenient frame of time for piko to save himself or say something more helpful for him.

I also don't see how him waiting till the end of the day to vote makes sense, because if "there's nothing certain to grab on day 1 voting is a shoot in the dark", then why wait till the last moment to vote if it's going to be a shot in the dark anyway.

If I am not sure of something I'll obviously hesitate. I mean look at what happened in D1, suddenly things turned 360° in a really short span of time and the resolution was totally diferent.

How do you know it's her first game ever. On BMG maybe, but she seems to know exactly what she's doing unlike Mr. Delicious.

I totally love how ya'll see me as some super smart plot maker scum xD Kinda wishing I was mafia now tbh.. too bad I am just town noob.

Now if the rest of the guys showed up and maybe talked or something, imo the ones that are not saying a thing are becoming really suspicious. Just waiting for Midorikawa and HumanDawn to "convince them" I am scum and BW time. I foresee that~

 

[Calvinッ]

Uh, I never complained about inactives? I said, I want to complain about inactives, but since I am one myself, I cant. As I also said earlier, I had no other reads for Day one, thus resulting in me not having any voting.

 

[HumanDawn]

@White Crow;

All right - sorry about the not paying attention thing, it was a bad assumption while thinking about what you were saying. I really like your response though! In your mind, who do you think are the inactives?

@Calvin;

I remembered it wrong when writing the read. Not even one scum read/worry about something somebody said?

 

[EeveelutionLover]

Day rises and the villagers leave their homes. There sad to see that their good friend Life didn't make it last night.

You are Treecko

You are aligned with the Town

Day 2 has begun. Revenge Life.

 

[Slife]

I know it may have looked too sudden but the theory I then thought of opened my mind and explained ROMCH's actions and how it all could fit in a Town light, to the point that I found it much more likely for him to be Town than Mafia. My judgement was being clouded by something about a possibility, but with some out of the box thinking, it all started to make more sense that ROMCH was Town. With ROMCH voting Pikochu and them flipping Mafia, my theory of how he is Town and how it explains his behaviour is much more likely to be true. Mafia is as I've said, dynamic. New reasons and thinking affects voting and behaviour, and I've made it clear that if there was a better target than ROMCH that I would vote for them. While back then I didn't believe in the theory as much as I do now, it was well worth trusting it over voting ROMCH. The consequences of mislynching ROMCH would have been grave.

I understand that, but can you at least see why it might seem alarming from someone else's perspective? Your reasoning could be applied to any random townie: "Eureka! I just had an epiphany of why x is townie. I can't really explain it so just trust me and let's move on", which wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for the weird timing. I guess what I've trying to say is it's not so much your decision to change, but how sudden it was. I usually expect changes in opinion/reads to be more of a gradual process, but in your case MCH went from #1 scum read to #1 town read within a very short span with little to no explanation. It's as you said earlier, it's good to consider many possibilities and alternatives, so you can understand why I'm keeping my options open with regards to you, especially since you're a dangerous player.

 

[Slife]

Ninja'd by the host haha

 

[HumanDawn]

I understand that, but can you at least see why it might seem alarming from someone else's perspective? Your reasoning could be applied to any random townie: "Eureka! I just had an epiphany of why x is townie. I can't really explain it so just trust me and let's move on", which wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for the weird timing. I guess what I've trying to say is it's not so much your decision to change, but how sudden it was. I usually expect changes in opinion/reads to be more of a gradual process, but in your case MCH went from #1 scum read to #1 town read within a very short span with little to no explanation. It's as you said earlier, it's good to consider many possibilities and alternatives, so you can understand why I'm keeping my options open with regards to you, especially since you're a dangerous player.

Yeah I can, but I ask you to bear with it... Mind, he could still be scum somehow, but I doubt it.

Would like to see opinions on the Life Nightkill. I did not expect it, but I'll see what Life has said now that he's confirmed Town.

In the meantime:

VOTE: Space

 

[Calvinッ]

I did post my concerns on M13, and I am also suspicious of the lateness of the final vote on Day one.

Like an RKO out of nowhere

 

[Space]

Space - Mafia. For sure, best to give up now tbh... Actually no, I'm kidding, but I do find her unsettling. She's been saying a few things but I disagree with her reasoning. Her saying that she would have voted Pikochu but didn't when the votes were scattered and that it didn't cross her mind to vote in case a tie happened out of paranoia brings out alarm bells; it's not the thought process I would expect a Townie to have with a vote count like that. S-Scum lean...

The reasoning on Pikochu's vote towards M*13? It was just speculation but to answer more specifically

It was a preservation vote. Keep in mind that if M*13 is his scum partner then Pikochu would have been risking helping a lynch on a partner.

I'm not sure how to word this exactly but I was thinking about it more in this way: by voting M*13, then that might clear him because why would he vote him over someone else? There wasn't a good case against M*13.

It read more like somebody giving normal advice to somebody to me. Why not just say it in the Mafia QT?

I thought about that. What I was brining attention to it was that Pikochu pointed out that M*13 was a new player who could be excused from making some suspicious remarks. Yet he voted anyway over mch or trying to make a case against someone else.

The speculation was a stretch, I know.

Anyway I get that in hindsight it would have made more sense to have just voted to prevent a possible tie in the first place, but for some reason that didn't cross my mind. It was near the end of the phase and things were slow so I just didn't actually expect a tie to form, I guess.

Also you're voting me but you put White Crow ahead of me?