Contestshipping vs Advanceshipping

[Blues.]

'The mind sees what it wants to see.' What a contestshipper will see as a clear hint, an advanceshipper will see nothing special. Same thing the other way round.

The point is that there will be no end to this arguement/discussion/debate until May clearly says who she likes more.

Yeah, now we are truly discussing something real. The fact is that, we may know hints about who May likes, but just when she clearly say who she loves we will know the truth. If you have seen the anime Card Captor Sakura, you would know that the hints may lore the people.(if you have seen the anime to the end). That's why I have hope that maybe May could discover love fellings for Ash.

 

[mandoiVAGiona]

Yeah, now we are truly discussing something real. The fact is that, we may know hints about who May likes, but just when she clearly say who she loves we will know the truth. If you have seen the anime Card Captor Sakura, you would know that the hints may lore the people.(if you have seen the anime to the end). That's why I have hope that maybe May could discover love fellings for Ash.

Seriously. Just stop right there.
May has left the main cast. She is never going to return to travel with Ash. Ash is going to keep finding a new chick to travel with, as long as the show keeps going on. May is on her own now.

She has never once shown any indication that she liked Ash in a way more than friendship. The person she grew to like more than a friend/rival, was Drew ...obviously. And if you refuse to see it, that's fine. You're just going to make yourself look like an immature brat. Yes, I'm being pretty blunt. But the fact is that ..it's clearly there, in the show, who May likes.

And I can't believe that there are still people who won't accept it. I thought most people finally gave up after AG ended. I mean, it's very very obvious who the writers wanted to be May's love interest.

 

[Insanish Danish]

And I can't believe that there are still people who won't accept it. I thought most people finally gave up after AG ended. I mean, it's very very obvious who the writers wanted to be May's love interest.

Me either. Contestshipping can't get any more canon than it is now, and it's really sad how there still are people trying to convince themselves otherwise.

 

[Sharpblade]

Seriously. Just stop right there.
May has left the main cast. She is never going to return to travel with Ash. Ash is going to keep finding a new chick to travel with, as long as the show keeps going on. May is on her own now.

She has never once shown any indication that she liked Ash in a way more than friendship. The person she grew to like more than a friend/rival, was Drew ...obviously. And if you refuse to see it, that's fine. You're just going to make yourself look like an immature brat. Yes, I'm being pretty blunt. But the fact is that ..it's clearly there, in the show, who May likes.

And I can't believe that there are still people who won't accept it. I thought most people finally gave up after AG ended. I mean, it's very very obvious who the writers wanted to be May's love interest.

I thinks it's ironic how you claim that someone is an immature brat just
because they don't think the same as you and I fail to see how it is obvious that May liked Drew more than a friend or rival, and I've seen each hint of Contestshipping and while I do agree that there's more there than Advanceshipping I still believe that it's not enough to actually declare that there was actual romance or anything of the sort.

Me either. Contestshipping can't get any more canon than it is now, and it's really sad how there still are people trying to convince themselves otherwise.

Oh really, we'll I've watched each episode of the Advanced generation and I haven't actually seen anything that says that Contestshipping is any more canon than other shippings.

 

[Mooites]

Oh really, we'll I've watched each episode of the Advanced generation and I haven't actually seen anything that says that Contestshipping is any more canon than other shippings.

What screams canon is "The Unbeatable Lightness of Seeing" and beyond. That was when Drew told May that he was going to Johto, right? And what did May decide to do? You guessed it, May decided to go to Johto.

But why? She hadn't even concidered Johto before then. She didn't show any intentions of leaving the group until she learned what Drew was doing. Theres contests in Sinnoh, no? And if May liked Ash that much, wouldn't she have stuck with him? But she didn't.

This is why most fans see Contestshipping is canon now. May followed Drew to Johto, not Ash to Sinnoh. And the whole fact that their alone in Johto also gives fans some room to speculate.

So that, in short, is the main reason why fans find CS canon.

 

[Kaio]

Tough to argue with that logic. -.-

 

[Aestivate]

What screams canon is "The Unbeatable Lightness of Seeing" and beyond. That was when Drew told May that he was going to Johto, right? And what did May decide to do? You guessed it, May decided to go to Johto.

But why? She hadn't even concidered Johto before then. She didn't show any intentions of leaving the group until she learned what Drew was doing. Theres contests in Sinnoh, no? And if May liked Ash that much, wouldn't she have stuck with him? But she didn't.

This is why most fans see Contestshipping is canon now. May followed Drew to Johto, not Ash to Sinnoh. And the whole fact that their alone in Johto also gives fans some room to speculate.

So that, in short, is the main reason why fans find CS canon.

What of advanceshipping, when Haruka decided to follow Satoshi around BEFORE he even DECIDED to go to the Battle Frontier? She hadn't known that he was going to travel around Kanto; it was only circumstantially and haphazardly that she decided her next route was to tackle this region's contests. You can't say contestshipping is 'canonical' when the other ship has a similar hint.
She'd decided that she would like to travel with him and him alone - minus her brother, minus Takeshi.

And what the lot of you say about the advance/contest shippers not caring/disregarding the other's hints - This, I disagree, at least for my sake. After all of the hints, I still like advanceshipping better. I don't mind contestshipping and I will even buy the fact that Haruka and Shuu had mutual feelings at one crucial point in the anime, but I also feel that their personalities clash too much and they will never be much more than eternal rivals and friends. You CANNOT say the same about Palletshipping/Masarashipping, because Satoshi's rivalry with Shigeru has ended and the fact that Shige-kun is so damn sexy.


For me personally, I take into account the character's personalities more than anything outside of interaction between the two, and the way they interact when they do. Psychology always wins out. <3
I don't worry about what will or will not be canon - because neither will be, given the show's history with romance.

Spoiler

Contestshipping for me, is the ship that could end. Very well by Shuu's hand, the way I see it. Personality wise, he is too much the competitor to see through their rivalry. Haruka is precious to him because he sees a lot of himself in her, according to Saori and etc. But that's why he will constantly always want to edge out over her, and Haruka likewise, whom out of all three girls, even though she is the so-called "meekest" one (aka the one that is not overly bipolar/violent and the one that isn't the mary sue), IMO she's also the one who is most fiercely determined. Their rivalry has had a real chance to develop, compared to any other rival in the series, except for Harley, but he's a latecomer.

I also get the impression that at a time, she confused her feelings over him with the fact that he singled her out as his most important rival and vice versa. For this reason, it was only logical that the depressed Haruka - following the disaster against Saori at the Kanto GF, would want to follow a road that actually seemed like it could go somewhere. She was devastated as she had never been before. In Hoenn she tried her strengths. She hadn't expected to go as far as she did, and who should she lose to, but Shuu. It was the Kanto cup that she really wanted, and after she lost she was in a mental limbo. She made her decision final while Satoshi was in a similar limbo, as well - and before his decision to travel through Sinnoh.

Shuu saw a lot of himself in Haruka before he fell for her - before he started falling for her, actually. In the original version of "Haruka tai Shuu! Rivaru wo eien ni!" when Haruka and Shuu are talking, Haruka had clearly told him to not get the wrong impression about the way she felt about him.

Pokemon contests were the first thing that Haruka pursued in her lifetime that she could feel confident and good about herself - Remember her self-confidence (or lack thereof) throughout the series, and how less often she used the "-kamo" at the end of the sentence, or said it through habit towards the end of the series.




Similarly, Haruka's personality stands in the deepest contrast with the likes of Kasumi and Hikari both. Although she's taken huge strides in her confidence (clearly still not at the level of Kasumi, Hikari, or Satoshi), she's still a bit unsure of herself.

In fact, I find Hikari's "insecurity" distasteful to her personality, because she never gives ANY impression that she should be - although I do agree at the beginning of DP she was being too immodest, and two first round losses were her case of swallowing a bit of humble pie.

Time and time again it was Satoshi that made her break through that wall of self-consciousness, to reveal the Haruka that was at once a fierce competitor, bubbly, busty (lolol), young girl and whatnot. I'm sure Satoshi saw a lot of himself in Haruka too - their personalities of course, contrast, but Haruka was the first girl that he traveled with that was first starting out. He was as much interested in her success as he was his - for those that disagree in episodes he trained his Pokemon, he automatically assumed that Haruka would progress along through the contest with flying colors. EACH time he said (at least in the original version and I would know this because I'm rewatching AG raw) "I definitely knew Haruka would be in the finals!" or "So Haruka is the one in the finals, right?" is a similar translation but doesn't give as much the confident inflection.

It's also to Satoshi whom Haruka almost always turns to first, for assistance, guidance, or support. This is illustrated by the fact that she chose Satoshi over her father, whom although not as openly or the extent to her brother, she idolized.

I don't agree at all that Satoshi and Haruka showed any MUTUAL feelings at all throughout the course of the show (the ninth movie is my only notable exception), but they have all the workings. Satoshi is most mature when it comes to Haruka, because she is not yet so headstrong, seemingly bringing the best out in him, or something. I will say one thing, and that is I didn't like Satoshi throughout the original series - Kenji and Kasumi had always been my favorite characters - until Haruka rolled around.

She was girly without being overbearing, temperamental but still sweet and (relatively) docile, but most of all she was completely a new canvas. Unfortunately, the potential for real romance only began, incidentally, after Haruka left for Johto and Satoshi for Sinnoh. Which sucks because I'm left to speculate forever. T^T

I think she'd eventually grown to idolize Satoshi, too. She keeps her ribbon half to remind herself of his encouragement. She goes VERY far in her statement - the ribbon had helped save her, etc, etc. I just want to point out that when Satoshi and Haruka join their ribbon halves, Haruka inquires if he has it first - "Satoshi, kore matteru?" "Ah, mochiron." This is the Satoshi that isn't carrying his backpack or anything (in which he keeps Kasumi's special lure) - isn't it significant that he seemingly keeps his remberance of Haruka around in his pocket? Hikari's ribbon is awarded that special place as well - but her MOTHER gave that to her.

It's a little easier to defend why I do not promote contestshipping as opposed to why I like advanceshipping more. x] But probably only 'cause I like the pairing so much ~

 

[Sharpblade]

What screams canon is "The Unbeatable Lightness of Seeing" and beyond. That was when Drew told May that he was going to Johto, right? And what did May decide to do? You guessed it, May decided to go to Johto.

But why? She hadn't even concidered Johto before then. She didn't show any intentions of leaving the group until she learned what Drew was doing. Theres contests in Sinnoh, no? And if May liked Ash that much, wouldn't she have stuck with him? But she didn't.

This is why most fans see Contestshipping is canon now. May followed Drew to Johto, not Ash to Sinnoh. And the whole fact that their alone in Johto also gives fans some room to speculate.

So that, in short, is the main reason why fans find CS canon.

While it is a good hint I believe the real reason that the writers made May go to Johto was so that, since Ash was going to Sinnoh, Dawn had to be introduced since the new games where either realeased or soon to be released (can't remember the dates)so the Anime had to include the female character from the new games.

 

[Insanish Danish]

But it still only takes common sense to see that Drew and May like each other. That's a fact that I don't think the writers could possibly stretch any further.

 

[mandoiVAGiona]

But canonally speaking, Contest will always > Advance.
Sure, Ash and May's personalities may work better together. But that's why the ship might be seen as boring. THERE'S NO PROBLEMS in the relationship. And I mean, IRL, you don't want problems in your relationship. But when you ship, and like two characters together, you want to see some negative/funny mess ups with the relationship. And there's no doubt that May and Drew will have many of those.

Ash and May get too good along. They barely ever fought, or got annoyed with each other. That's why I find the ship totally boring. They work well with each other, but it has nothing to it.

May and Drew, on the other hand, have obvious feelings for each other. And the fact that they'd have a funny, wacked relationship ..makes me love the ship even more. :]

 

[Mooites]

What of advanceshipping, when Haruka decided to follow Satoshi around BEFORE he even DECIDED to go to the Battle Frontier? She hadn't known that he was going to travel around Kanto; it was only circumstantially and haphazardly that she decided her next route was to tackle this region's contests. You can't say contestshipping is 'canonical' when the other ship has a similar hint.
She'd decided that she would like to travel with him and him alone - minus her brother, minus Takeshi.

Thats true. But I saw that as more of May getting to Kanto and pulling a "Oh, since Im in the neighborhood, lets see if my friend wants to come". At that point, May still wasnt very independent (but more so than early AG, of course) and I think she still probably depended on her friends.

And what the lot of you say about the advance/contest shippers not caring/disregarding the other's hints - This, I disagree, at least for my sake. After all of the hints, I still like advanceshipping better. I don't mind contestshipping and I will even buy the fact that Haruka and Shuu had mutual feelings at one crucial point in the anime, but I also feel that their personalities clash too much and they will never be much more than eternal rivals and friends. You CANNOT say the same about Palletshipping/Masarashipping, because Satoshi's rivalry with Shigeru has ended and the fact that Shige-kun is so damn sexy.

See, Im the other way around. I've looked at the "hints". Theres some "hints" that I disagree with for both ships. Acutally, I disagree with most of the AS ones, becuase I see them as more "friendship moments". But I will say that, at one point, May did like Ash. And that would be early AG, when she would openly flirt with him. But then she met Drew. And I found that ten times cuter/funnier/more likely to happen. (Call me crazy, but I dont like to multi-ship characters. So Ash only gets Misty )

And I wouldnt say that their rivalry has ended, becuase Gary can still whoop Ash any day of the week. And Gary really does act as a motivator for him. So in a way, they are rivals, becuase Ash still wants to move past him. Also, May and Drew's rivalry has really toned down, no? Drew doesnt tease her anymore, and they seem to have mutual respect for each other. Drew even watched her match on TV. So I actually think that their rivalry is just motivation to be the best. Same with Ash and Gary now.

And as for the rest, yes, May's personality was the best suited for a romantic relationship.

 

[Aestivate]

See, Im the other way around. I've looked at the "hints". Theres some "hints" that I disagree with for both ships. Acutally, I disagree with most of the AS ones, becuase I see them as more "friendship moments". But I will say that, at one point, May did like Ash. And that would be early AG, when she would openly flirt with him. But then she met Drew. And I found that ten times cuter/funnier/more likely to happen. (Call me crazy, but I dont like to multi-ship characters. So Ash only gets Misty )

And I wouldnt say that their rivalry has ended, becuase Gary can still whoop Ash any day of the week. And Gary really does act as a motivator for him. So in a way, they are rivals, becuase Ash still wants to move past him. Also, May and Drew's rivalry has really toned down, no? Drew doesnt tease her anymore, and they seem to have mutual respect for each other. Drew even watched her match on TV. So I actually think that their rivalry is just motivation to be the best. Same with Ash and Gary now.

And as for the rest, yes, May's personality was the best suited for a romantic relationship.

It's a bit different in the ShigeSato case, because they're no longer competitors, although I do agree that it is absolutely true that Shige-kun can whoop Satoshi's ass on any given day and in romance too <3palletshipping.

Shuu and Haruka still have their respective paths. And they are rivals in the "forever" sense. The anime even addresses that. Which is why if they ever got into a relationship, I think Shuu would be the first one to realize that.

And as an advanceshipper and orangeshipper, I take HIGH offense for anyone that comes up to me and goes "hay ur blind cuz cs and ps are obv canon lolZ!"
Neither Shuu nor Haruka has openly admitted feelings for each other and there has been no revelation in the anime plot that they are together, so no, they are not canon.
Unlike most shippers,I take the contestshipping as real hints, definitely. I don't disregard many - there are notable exceptions, such as when Shuu watched Haruka in the Mikuri cup arc because Saori and Harley were also present, but I take my character relations very seriously. And yet I still like advanceshipping better, despite the other possibility being an overwhelming favorite and where the writers seemed to be leaning towards, though not anymore.
And it's arguable that even pokeshipping isn't canon on Kasumi's side (though I don't agree with this at all, pokeshipping is at least one-sided although the pokeshippers will disagree with me. I find it really sad that one side would so blatantly disregard and disrespect the other in such a fallacious manner. That's why a big majority of the Pokemon shipping community is so appalling to me, lol.

 

[Blues.]

LOL, this forum is HOT. And here is the reinforcements. How is that? hehehe

Ah people, i remembered something that could be a hint for advanceshipping. Both Ash and May have bulbassaur and squartle. And the bulbassaur of May loves the bulbassaur of Ash.

Ah, and people, you really believe that May has gone to Johto because she likes Drew? Please, Harley was with them too. So, it is obvious that she gone only to train more and for the contests in the Johto region.

And you will never see May saying that she likes Drew, or see them kissing. Don't dream.

 

[Sharpblade]

LOL, this forum is HOT. And here is the reinforcements. How is that? hehehe

Ah people, i remembered something that could be a hint for advanceshipping. Both Ash and May have bulbassaur and squartle. And the bulbassaur of May loves the bulbasaur of Ash.

Ah, and people, you really believe that May has gone to Johto because she likes Drew? Please, Harley was with them too. So, it is obvious that she gone only to train more and for the contests in the Johto region.

And you will never see May saying that she likes Drew, or see them kissing. Don't dream.

Yes, there was a hint in the fact that both of the bulbasaurs owned by May and Ash could possibly like each other, in fact it was such a big hint that it actually got its own ship name (Vineshipping) but from the latest that we saw from May in the Wallace Cup is that she took her bulbasaur and that it evolved to its final stage so I doubt it can be used as a substantial hint and from what you said about never seeing May says she likes Drew, well the same will hold true for Ash, you will probably never see her saying she likes him either.

 

[Cybersai]

Vineshipping is dead now though.

Assuming May has Venusaur on her roster, its not with Ash's Bulbasaur anymore. And regardless...its too BIG now.

It's like a 400 pound woman getting together with a skinny 115 pound guy. She would crush him!

I also don't think Venusaur and Ash's Bulbasaur would ever be together again, Venusaur is probably left in the Petalburg greenhouse now.

I do kinda see how early Hoenn May kinda had a thing for Ash though, but as the Contest arc progressed you could tell she became more interested in Drew...first it was just competitively...but the constant blushes in the Hoenn GF, plus the Brianna contest, and the whole end of BF confirmed it.

 

[Insanish Danish]

I am willing to admit that May sort of liked Ash at the start of AG, but that all but disappeared when Drew came along.

 

[Blues.]

Vineshipping is dead now though.

Assuming May has Venusaur on her roster, its not with Ash's Bulbasaur anymore. And regardless...its too BIG now.

It's like a 400 pound woman getting together with a skinny 115 pound guy. She would crush him!

I also don't think Venusaur and Ash's Bulbasaur would ever be together again, Venusaur is probably left in the Petalburg greenhouse now.

I do kinda see how early Hoenn May kinda had a thing for Ash though, but as the Contest arc progressed you could tell she became more interested in Drew...first it was just competitively...but the constant blushes in the Hoenn GF, plus the Brianna contest, and the whole end of BF confirmed it.

Yeah, but you're sure that you can with one hundred o certain say that May loves Drew? You can say that the fans of Drew love him, but none of them truly loves him. I bet she has an admiration for him, she sees him like a rival, and maybe she thinks he is cute or something, but i bet she doesn't love him. Alright, so you can say the same for Ash. Yes, you can say. Acctualy, the only person who we know about love is Brocks case, with Jennys, Joys and beatiful girls. Ha, and blush doesn't mean she is in love for the person. This is ridiculous. I know that advanceshipping has now a few chances left, cause now we have a great chance of pearlshipping. I support pearlshipping too, so I,m not a fanatic of advanceshipping. I just want real facts to prove that contestshipping can really become true.

PS: If blush mean that a person is in love for other person, why nothing happened between Ash and Misty? Cause i saw alot of episodes of them blushing(the 2). And even after travel with Ash for so long time, nothing happened, and now Misty doesn't look to Ash like a boyfriend in potential, but just as a good friend. This can't happen with May and Drew????:-/

 

[Arysd]

The way you talk about love between the characters, you seem to forget that they're just kids. Granted, they're on their way to becoming teenagers.

So no, May isn't IN LOVE with Drew, OR Ash. Or anyone. Give her time to age and mature.. and well. She's in Johto and we know she runs into Drew, so during this time something is being given a chance to grow between the two. Something that we will never see in the anime but know is a very good possibility.

Brock doesn't LOVE Nurse Joy, Officer Jenny, and every pretty girl he sees. He has an attraction to them and he gets rejected/pulled away before that has a chance for anything to grow.
Drew was originally rude to May. So I don't think she would have just an attraction to him like Brock would with the mentioned ladies above. Plus I think we can all agree she's not that shallow.
May has never given a hint to only liking Drew for his looks and fame, like his fangirls. So it's safe to say she likes him for him.

Misty shouldn't even come into the conversation right now. She and Ash did not have the same relationship or situation as May and Drew did. May and Drew are traveling and competing in contests in the same region. They get to talk and interact offscreen. Misty is stuck in a gym while Ash travels in Sinnoh. Can't compare the two couples.

May and Drew are gone. May will not come on screen and say who she likes more. All we can use is the past hints and come up with the best theories. My theory is that she's traveling in Johto, and eventually over time as they 'grow up', (Though we know the characters don't 'age' so whatever.), she's going to have a closer connection to Drew.

Fanfiction is where the rest comes in for the fans. Luckily there's plenty of fanfiction for BOTH ships, so I'd suggest to go find one with a plot you like and just live out what you want to happen.

 

[Mooites]

The way you talk about love between the characters, you seem to forget that they're just kids. Granted, they're on their way to becoming teenagers.

So no, May isn't IN LOVE with Drew, OR Ash. Or anyone. Give her time to age and mature.. and well. She's in Johto and we know she runs into Drew, so during this time something is being given a chance to grow between the two. Something that we will never see in the anime but know is a very good possibility.

Brock doesn't LOVE Nurse Joy, Officer Jenny, and every pretty girl he sees. He has an attraction to them and he gets rejected/pulled away before that has a chance for anything to grow.
Drew was originally rude to May. So I don't think she would have just an attraction to him like Brock would with the mentioned ladies above. Plus I think we can all agree she's not that shallow.
May has never given a hint to only liking Drew for his looks and fame, like his fangirls. So it's safe to say she likes him for him.

Misty shouldn't even come into the conversation right now. She and Ash did not have the same relationship or situation as May and Drew did. May and Drew are traveling and competing in contests in the same region. They get to talk and interact offscreen. Misty is stuck in a gym while Ash travels in Sinnoh. Can't compare the two couples.

May and Drew are gone. May will not come on screen and say who she likes more. All we can use is the past hints and come up with the best theories. My theory is that she's traveling in Johto, and eventually over time as they 'grow up', (Though we know the characters don't 'age' so whatever.), she's going to have a closer connection to Drew.

Fanfiction is where the rest comes in for the fans. Luckily there's plenty of fanfiction for BOTH ships, so I'd suggest to go find one with a plot you like and just live out what you want to happen.

I had to quote the whole thing. That was a great post *sniff*

I totally support all of that.

 

[Luna Tiger]

Vineshipping is dead now though.

Assuming May has Venusaur on her roster, its not with Ash's Bulbasaur anymore. And regardless...its too BIG now.

It's like a 400 pound woman getting together with a skinny 115 pound guy. She would crush him!

I also don't think Venusaur and Ash's Bulbasaur would ever be together again, Venusaur is probably left in the Petalburg greenhouse now.

8D You are an incredibly ignorant ass, who knows nothing about human relationships (personal or sexual), and dare to think they apply to pokémon species relationships.

Vineshipping has no weight to Advanceshipping. The status of Vineshipping currently is unknown, not "dead." You are in no possession of facts that show the affection from either Bulbasaur had died away with Venusaur's evolution. And to BELIEVE whatever feeling they had would die with that evolution is is saying that Ash's Bulbasaur was a SHALLOW PIECE OF SHIT for liking May's Bulbasaur for her APPEARANCE. That doesn't sound like Bulbasaur to me, who's caring enough to be the damn grass-type "ambassador".

That's like saying a man is only as in love with his woman as long as she's his own size, and would drop her if she suddenly gained a significant amount of weight. That your definition of love? That once one partner grows fat, the other skinny one will move on to skinnier pastures? Do you believe love is always so dependent on one's looks?

And you're comparing HUMAN standards to NON-HUMAN relationships? Wow, that's even stupider and more ignorant.

As well, if you knew anything about the sexual nature of quadrupeds, you'd know a bigger female won't result in the crushing of a smaller male, but a bigger male would result in the crushing of a smaller female. Because the mounting is done from the back, where a female is BENEATH the male. DUH.

And yet, I bet if Ash's Bulbasaur evolved into a Venusaur and May's Bulbasaur remained so, NO ONE would have this issue-of-size, because the bigger male/smaller female is socially more acceptable by human standards than bigger female/smaller male.

So guess what Scott? 8D Get out of my subforum and come back when you know what the hell you are talking about.