Mafia The Pokemon Starters Mafia (Mafia Wins)

[Sunsette]

I have yet to understand why meta is not the way to play, because meta can determine a lot more than how posts are game by game, because then town loses a lot more often.
if you seriously want to play the old fashioned way, be my guest, but let me tell you that meta serves a better purpose and not following that is pretty much throwing the game for town.
evidence: town has lost most of the games I've been in, and I die either day 1 or lategame when town can't afford a mislynch, and guess what happens? a mislynch, and then the game is over for town.

Meta can be misleading, deliberately or not. It's useful to refer to, but shouldn't be the be-all and end-all. And frankly, I have yet to see you do yourself any favors with your own meta so if that's so important maybe you should try improving it by playing the game instead of throwing a fit and trying to get yourself subbed out or modkilled because things aren't going your way.

 

[ReturnofMCH]

Meta can be misleading, deliberately or not. It's useful to refer to, but shouldn't be the be-all and end-all. And frankly, I have yet to see you do yourself any favors with your own meta so if that's so important maybe you should try improving it by playing the game instead of throwing a fit and trying to get yourself subbed out or modkilled because things aren't going your way.

I've tried playing the game, but then I inevitably come under suspicion and I can't defend myself.
if you seriously think I haven't tried playing, go and reread pretty much every mafia I've been in, I try playing, die, and try again. it's just my bad luck.

 

[Midorikawa]

I've tried playing the game, but then I inevitably come under suspicion and I can't defend myself.
if you seriously think I haven't tried playing, go and reread pretty much every mafia I've been in, I try playing, die, and try again. it's just my bad luck.

I have yet to actually see you attempt to properly defend yourself. I've seen you constantly self vote, and basically use appeal to emotion.

 

[ReturnofMCH]

I have yet to actually see you attempt to properly defend yourself. I've seen you constantly self vote, and basically use appeal to emotion.

that's defending myself.
the definfiton of defend in the dictionary says ANY attempt to save one's self
appealing to emotion included.

 

[ReturnofMCH]

I just think some of you take the game way too seriously IT'S JUST A GAME.
I TRY IT FOR FUN, NOT TO GET UNDER SUSPICION FOR ACTING SCUMMY WHEN I AM NOT.
if you ask me, I have been playing this game, from the start, and playing it as well as I can, but apparently "it's not good enough" which I call BS.
games are meant to be FUN.

 

[Midorikawa]

I just think some of you take the game way too seriously IT'S JUST A GAME.
I TRY IT FOR FUN, NOT TO GET UNDER SUSPICION FOR ACTING SCUMMY WHEN I AM NOT.
if you ask me, I have been playing this game, from the start, and playing it as well as I can, but apparently "it's not good enough" which I call BS.
games are meant to be FUN.

We play the game. You're the one taking things to seriously.

 

[ReturnofMCH]

sometimes I wish I could leave as a player and become only a host, but then I always get pulled into a promising game and then this shit happens.
I realize you are good players, but if this is how we treat ANYONE who sucks at the game and can't improve as well as you guys can, then I'm afraid we'll never attract new people, instead we'll just scare them off because they just can't get good under this pressure.

 

[ReturnofMCH]

We play the game. You're the one taking things to seriously.

if only because I kind of have to at this point, I never can have fun because I always come under suspicion, I am almost always town, I can't get better if I keep getting lynched day 1 for various reasons such as my personal philosophy
it is seriously nerve-wracking how I am never treated with enough respect to become a decent player, but have been here longer than 3 of the 4 mods have.
and like I said, if it weren't for other hosts making promising games, I would quit, but I JUST CAN'T

 

[Slife]

I just think some of you take the game way too seriously IT'S JUST A GAME.
I TRY IT FOR FUN, NOT TO GET UNDER SUSPICION FOR ACTING SCUMMY WHEN I AM NOT.
if you ask me, I have been playing this game, from the start, and playing it as well as I can, but apparently "it's not good enough" which I call BS.
games are meant to be FUN.

If you acknowledge that it's just a game then you shouldn't take any suspicion/attacks against you personally. Calling out people for scummy behavior is the whole point of scumhunting, because we don't know your alignment so we have to try to figure it out through reasoning and analysis. Instead of complaining about people finding you scummy, which you admit happens way too often because of your frequent anti-town behavior, I would take Sunsette's suggestion and try to change your "meta." Take some time to think about why it is that people often find you scummy and how you can change your playstyle to avoid making the same mistakes constantly.

 

[ReturnofMCH]

If you acknowledge that it's just a game then you shouldn't take any suspicion/attacks against you personally. Calling out people for scummy behavior is the whole point of scumhunting, because we don't know your alignment so we have to try to figure it out through reasoning and analysis. Instead of complaining about people finding you scummy, which you admit happens way too often because of your frequent anti-town behavior, I would take Sunsette's suggestion and try to change your "meta." Take some time to think about why it is that people often find you scummy and how you can change your playstyle to avoid making the same mistakes constantly.

that's the problem, I can't change my behavior because I don't know why everyone calls me scummy and I can't think of stuff that deep too often, as I can't make most decisions for myself thanks to my autism.
-_- I really guess I can't be a host or a player, because of IRL issues preventing me from being a better player and if I host, I become a player again.

 

[Midorikawa]

@returnofmastercrazyhand For starters you are still in this game long after D1 and have done basically nothing to help scumhunt. And secondly we don't quote and respond to posts for no reason in mafias. Take note of what we're saying is wrong with a post. That's how you change how you play. And most of all when being voted or under suspicion look at what we're saying, stay calm and give calm responses because the kind of thing you do doesn't work. Appeal to emotion is the number one thing that doesn't work in mafia.

 

[ReturnofMCH]

@returnofmastercrazyhand For starters you are still in this game long after D1 and have done basically nothing to help scumhunt. And secondly we don't quote and respond to posts for no reason in mafias. Take note of what we're saying is wrong with a post. That's how you change how you play. And most of all when being voted or under suspicion look at what we're saying, stay calm and give calm responses because the kind of thing you do doesn't work. Appeal to emotion is the number one thing that doesn't work in mafia.

that's the thing
IRL issues prevent me from doing so, as my brain is kind of messed up.

 

[Midorikawa]

that's the thing
IRL issues prevent me from doing so, as my brain is kind of messed up.

Then when you have time look through the thread again. Build cases after re-reading.

I work five days a week. I have to help my grandparents with things like weeds, painting. I get dragged around by them, by my mother. Not to mention I clean my house on my days off and I have a dog I have to take care of. That's a million and one things for me. I have a busy life. But when I have time I do mafias. Heck currently I'm digging through for Space posts while having Grimm on in the background. Multitasking since I have downtime.

 

[ReturnofMCH]

Then when you have time look through the thread again. Build cases after re-reading.

I work five days a week. I have to help my grandparents with things like weeds, painting. I get dragged around by them, by my mother. Not to mention I clean my house on my days off and I have a dog I have to take care of. That's a million and one things for me. I have a busy life. But when I have time I do mafias. Heck currently I'm digging through for Space posts while having Grimm on in the background. Multitasking since I have downtime.

I'm not that busy, it's my autism that prevents me among other mental issues.

 

[Midorikawa]

Finally Space thing done. *dies*

Spoiler

I'm thinking that one of the following options would probably be best to lynch, considering they've been inactive and some of us wouldn't have played with them before (I know I haven't, but I don't know about anyone else).

What... how would it be a good idea to lynch people you have no clue what their play styles are? I'm genuinely curious. Also like a couple of others have stated it's only Day 1 and (I don't think) it's exactly close to ending yet. By Day 2, yeah, if people are still inactive have at it, but it's only Day 1.

You're underestimating the risks of mislynches though. In the mechanics, roles are not only dependent of what character we are but also who are left in the game. Lynching the wrong player could lead scum one step closer to a power role.

I don't know, one mislynch doesn't seem like it would be devastating, but maybe I don't completely understand the mechanics then. I think I understand what you're saying about giving the mafia a chance for a power role though. What do you think should be done then? A no lynch? But where would that leave us? Even if there is no lynch this phase then the mafia will just kill a townie and still eventually get closer to obtaining a power role.


Anyway, looking at the thread it just seems to be a lot of convos going in circles. So my thoughts on the mch thing:

unvote: MMMMMMMMMMMMM
vote: hellcrow
for ninja'ing me while voting the same person. coincidence? I THINK NOT!

On one hand, this post does strike me as genuine. Overly cautious maybe, but like it was a spur of the moment reaction in fear of actually starting a lynch. But of course it can also be seen as someone who's got something to hide and quickly didn't want any attention put onto him.

a true joke vote lynch on ME during his first game, and his role was doc.

Forgive me if this was already said by someone else, but this has literally no bearing on this game. No one has roles and all (yet) so the only way to prove yourself is through posts alone.


@returnofmastercrazyhand Since at one point you said it was time to focus on someone who potentially needs the vote; is there anyone who strikes you as suspicious at this point?

This is a solid post.

I'm a bit iffy on Elementar because I find it odd how he wanted to lynch an inactive when he himself only had two posts at that point. Or one really since the first post was just saying he was there and paying attention. Not enough to warrant a lynch on him but it's still kinda weird imo

This bandwagon on Piko seems rather sudden to me...

What's your specific opinion on it then? You think Pikochu is town, or...?

Solid post again.

Darn it I had a whole post written out and it got deleted. Here we go again

I have no opinion on Piko at this time... I'm just noting that the phase has a few hours left at the most, and a bandwagon has formed on Piko. Contenders in said bandwagon pulled votes off other people including MCH and myself, to vote for Piko.

If Piko flips town, I am going to take a very close look at the people in that bandwagon...

I find it hard to believe you have no opinion on Pikochu when you're wary of the people who are voting for him. Seems like you're leaning town more than anything.

Hello!

Are you thinking of voting anyone?

Hey yeah I'm still in the process of trying to figure that out.....


Mch is leaning on the town side for me. His posts are just frantic enough that I think he's being sincere in a town-like way. And it's about time to end that whole debate anyway.


Pikochu is... a bit scummy, yeah. He's around, but not overtly so. He adds some small stuff every now and then and (correct me if I'm wrong) the only long-ish post he had was in defense of himself. That's kinda suspicious.


Now Elementar is also still on my scum radar. For reasons I already mentioned and his vote on mch which I find sketchy. He seems to be trying hard to get an easy lynch, and one that won't make him suspicious. And I almost forgot how he voted Midorikawa for one second and then quickly changed it, which doesn't make sense.


Also before I do anything I want to see what @Pikochu has to say for himself on these votes on him.

Again solid.

I wouldn't so much say I'm wary of the people voting for him... Just wary of the sudden bandwagon that formed so late in the phase.

Ah, gotcha. Still, there are actual reasons for the votes and many don't want a no lynch, so I can see where the bandwagon is coming from.

Solid.

This is a self preservation vote: Vote: MMMM.... I need to get going to this is going to be my last post for this day.

But why MMMMMMMMMMMM though?

Seriously not seeing anything wrong with Space’s posts yet.

Space: A bit iffy about them showing up late to side with the piko lynch without actually voting.

I didn't see a point to voting when Pikochu already had the majority at that point. If, say, someone voted M*13 and it was a tie, then I would have.


Anyway could there be some significance regarding Pikochu's decision to vote M*13? Sure he didn't agree with the votes against mch in the first place, but he probably would have had a better chance of him (mch) being lynched over M*13. There wasn't really a case against M*13- Hell Crow's vote was a joke one and Molten Eevee's was about M*13's strange logic and kind of an OMGUS vote.


Also this was a reply Pikochu made to M*13:

Welcome to The War Room. I suggest being more careful in the timing for the joke vote as there was already some serious discussion in the game already

He acknowledges here that M*13 is new and likely to make some mistakes. Which I guess is why I find it odd he would choose to vote M*13 over mch.

I find nothing wrong here either. And I was the same way for the Piko vote. It had enough votes to where I didn’t care to jump on either. It’s not any scummier than jumping on a bandwagon that has majority.

Space - Mafia. For sure, best to give up now tbh... Actually no, I'm kidding, but I do find her unsettling. She's been saying a few things but I disagree with her reasoning. Her saying that she would have voted Pikochu but didn't when the votes were scattered and that it didn't cross her mind to vote in case a tie happened out of paranoia brings out alarm bells; it's not the thought process I would expect a Townie to have with a vote count like that. S-Scum lean...

The reasoning on Pikochu's vote towards M*13? It was just speculation but to answer more specifically

It was a preservation vote. Keep in mind that if M*13 is his scum partner then Pikochu would have been risking helping a lynch on a partner.

I'm not sure how to word this exactly but I was thinking about it more in this way: by voting M*13, then that might clear him because why would he vote him over someone else? There wasn't a good case against M*13.

It read more like somebody giving normal advice to somebody to me. Why not just say it in the Mafia QT?

I thought about that. What I was brining attention to it was that Pikochu pointed out that M*13 was a new player who could be excused from making some suspicious remarks. Yet he voted anyway over mch or trying to make a case against someone else.


The speculation was a stretch, I know.


Anyway I get that in hindsight it would have made more sense to have just voted to prevent a possible tie in the first place, but for some reason that didn't cross my mind. It was near the end of the phase and things were slow so I just didn't actually expect a tie to form, I guess.


Also you're voting me but you put White Crow ahead of me?

Solid. And interesting thought patterns.

the things I was asking him (ie reason for voting MCH and why I can't seem to find it even though he insists it's there).

I think this was his reason?

The last time I blind voted ROMCH, he did turn out to be scum so...

Vote: Returnofmastercrazyhand

However, I will restate that I am not a fan of day 1 lynches...

Solid.

No.

Is this in response to me? If it is, then what was the reason?

Solid.

I had directed you to the very post where I gave my reason.

All I see is you saying no. There is no link or anything.

...Ehh? But he flipped scum, so I'm not sure what you're trying to mean by saying that he voted M*13 despite excusing him as Town.

What I was insinuating was that maybe M*13 was his scum buddy and that his voting him was in a way to clear him. Since he excused him as town earlier.


Looking at what I'm explaining now, yeah, it does all seem ridiculous and unlikely. M*13 didn't have a reason to be voted-which was why I was looking into that vote in the first place. It was most likely random. Still I'm not sure how my strange logic is inherently scummy? I was looking into things trying to find some sort of evidence in Pikochu's posts/vote.

I don't remember things being slow. Could you give me for how long you paid attention to the thread?

Well in the final hour there were only four posts. I can't remember the first one but one was Pikochu and his vote, then I just asked him why M*13, and then White Crow voted mch. It didn't seem like anything big was suddenly going to happen.

Sorry if I am asking too much but could I also get a reads list from you?

Sure thing, but first: does anyone know a way to search a specific user's posts in a thread? It'd be a lot easier to be more specific on certain things if I could. (ofc I could look back but this would be faster and easier)

They must be doing something outside of the game, otherwise surely they would have been modkilled/subbed for inactivity.

I don't see it in the rules but don't most games require in-game posts for activity to count?

Again nothing wrong with this.

RainbowSkittles isn't exactly acting in the most town-like way but I think voting Calvin is the best option right now so,


Vote: Calvin ッ


And here are my reads:


Zexy: Leaning town. Helpful and was an active force in the Pikochu lynch.


Sunsette: Leaning town. Has had thoughtful posts and isn't afraid to act.


Hellcrow: Not sure, since the lack of posts.


Elementar: Leaning town. I'd been iffy about them, but other than the "inactive lynch suggestion" (which has been resolved) they haven't done anything suspicious.


Slife: Neutral. They've been making helpful posts and such, but not to the point where I'm comfortable to lean town for them.


jdthebud: Neutral. In a similar way to Slife.


White Crow: Leaning town. Gave a valid defense of their vote near the end of Day 1.


Midorikawa: Leaning town for now since she hasn't said anything suspicious.


HumanDawn: Leaning town. I don't think someone who was mafia would have been so persistent against mch. And after giving it some thought you did back off and instead voted Pikochu (even starting the lynch I believe).


RainbowSkittles: It's really hard to tell since their posts haven't been anything substantial. I'd guess town though since I'd think a mafia would be trying harder to fit in.


M*13: Neutral. They haven't said anything worthy of being called town or mafia. Most of their posts were regarding mechanics and so it's hard to judge.


Andrew1990: I really have no clue. The things they're saying is kind of all over the place.


Molten Eevee: Gut feeling tells me he's town, but his behavior is scummy nonetheless.


returnofmastercrazyhand: Leaning town.


Calvin: Leaning mafia. Quiet and not exactly contributing, also calling out inactives when he himself still hasn't done all that much. Nothing that seems town-ish anyway.


A lot of these are neutral and subject to change. I still need to look back as I haven't had the time to do so.

It's not that it's inherently scummy, it's just that it doesn't really feel that it contributes that much or is means anything. Then again I disagree with the reasoning so I'm seeing what you brought up in a different light than you are. Forgive me if I'm being too hard; it's possible that I'm looking too hard into things and even though we lynched Mafia Day 1 I would like to keep the momentum of things.

No sweat, I completely get where you're coming from! Gotta keep things going is right. What I was saying wasn't going anywhere since I mean, there was no way of proving it anyway.

The feature that allowed us to do it is dead : (... I asked Tech here about it and no response.

Well shoot. I miss it already

Okay this one is strange. She’s admittedly been mostly neutral but at least she contributed. Here though no reads are actual reads with everyone being neutral or town save for the current bandwagon. That is way too neutral.

as far as you guys voting for calvin i am confused on why or the reasoning for that i wont change my vote but i dont see why calvin is being targeted out?

Calvin's been overall quiet and seemingly trying to get an easy lynch by bringing up inactives. Also his reads weren't much of anything.

I dislike how Space pegged both Elementar and Pikochu as scummy after I asked her who she would vote, but then ended up voting nobody despite there being votes scared on four players and said she'd have voted Pikochu after they lynched Mafia. Town would be more motivated to vote to prevent potential ties to get the lynches on players they find scummy. It doesn't help that other than that I don't think she said anything that useful.

I didn't want to vote Elementar because I said I didn't see enough reason to think of them as scum. I found the inactive thing suspicious but that was eventually cleared up anyway. And honestly there's not much else I can say about the Pikochu thing. Look I'm not sure what more I can say about this as a whole

Im not sure what I can do to change the tides of this without trying to shift the blame to someone else, like in my last post.

Who were you trying to shift blame onto? Cause I don't see anything like that in your last post (unless you're talking about your reads and leaning mafia for M*13 and Molten Eevee)

Again solid.

I worded it wrong. I meant trying to put suspicion on inactives.

Solid.

I'm curious, what makes the Elementar inactive thing different from the Calvin inactive thing in your opinion? You find one suspicious but not the other.

Elementar wanted to vote inactives in the beginning because it was early in the game and he didn't have any scum reads. Calvin has two listed as "leaning mafia" on his, yet won't vote them.

Solid.

Sorry about the inactivity, I've got exams coming up.

or the accusations others have been throwing around. His reads lists had one scum read, Calvin.

I have though. Mostly anyway, as it's been the same things said about me. And yeah, my list was fairly neutral. At the time I didn't see any glaring scum tells besides Calvin and well... we know that was wrong. I'm very rusty on mafia is all I can about that unfortunately.


Vote: RainbowSkittles


I think (yeah I was suspicious initially but that's changed) Elementar had town-ish intentions when he wanted to vote inactives in the beginning. But man I really need to look back though. Hopefully I can before this phase ends.

Solid mostly but this is her second time voting and its another bandwagon.

Vote: leectic

His recent interactions with Space

What interactions?

Can you expand a bit more on that read on Elementar's intentions?

Do you mean the voting inactives thing?

I admit some of his behavior is odd (specifically the thing Midorikawa brought up about not wanting to vote M*13), but not exactly scummy. I think there's been too much looking into some of the things he's said. Also whenever he asked Zexy what he thought of him-I don't think that's something mafia would do. It just brings unnecessary attention to himself and makes him seem "desperate to be seen as town", which, again doesn't seem like something a mafia would want to do.

Third vote and another bandwagon….. Now I’m disturbed.

You're jumpin' on a nice wagon here!

Also, there's only one c in my username

Okay? You're coming up as mafia of course I'm going to vote you.


Vote: leetic


to fix it.

Explanation for vote.

So you think he's acting too scummy to be mafia? Not exactly a ringing endorsement.

I don't think that they're saying that. I believe that he's saying that I'm trying to act town, but I'm not being successful and my motives are a bit different to what I actually output. Would I be correct @Space?

Basically this was what I was trying to say, yeah. Also no, that's not the entire reason I don't believe he's mafia. Those seemingly scummy things I mentioned are the only scummy things I've seen from him, and they're not even actually scummy. Actually... more like unusual for a townie, but not inherently scummy. if that makes sense I'm having trouble wording this.

You're not even showing doubt or coming up with your own reasoning. Sunsette, Mido, hell even Elementar looked townier when they fell on that wagon.

Vote: Space

You show up mafia, I'm voting because there's no way of knowing the truth unless you're lynched. Of course I do have the same doubts others have expressed. It's strange how you showing up mafia was claimed publicly. But I see little reason to keep saying the same things others have said when it'd be hard to not have doubt about it.

Re-explanation.

Final thoughts: Space is admittedly neutrally. She only voted on major bandwagons, and her only read list was disturbing. Other than that though its hard to get a decent enough read when she's so inactive.

 

[Elementar]

Sorry Mido, you did too. xD

VOTE: returnofmastercrazyhand

You have hardly done anything to contribute, and using meta an excuse for your playstyle is scummy. I have a relatively scummy meta too, but that doesn't mean that I'm not mafia. It's the only defense you have, and it's not strong. You haven't contributed much, and it's not much of a loss if you are in fact a mislynch.

 

[Sunsette]

I've got Space on the backburner as a lynch depending on Elementar's eventual flip if they're lynched/NK'ed. The interactions with/defenses of Elementar and how he seemed to be prompting Space's responses rubbed me the wrong way, so if Elementar flips scum I'd feel confident enough in a Space lynch as well.

 

[EeveelutionLover]

@returnofmastercrazyhand

I'm sorry but I seem to be having trouble subbing you out. I'll continue trying but you don't have to play if you don't want too.

 

[Elementar]

They may get lynched this phase, so it may not matter too much.

 

[Space]

Sorry again for the inactivity. I should be able to be more active by tomorrow, hopefully.

Final thoughts: Space is admittedly neutrally. She only voted on major bandwagons, and her only read list was disturbing. Other than that though its hard to get a decent enough read when she's so inactive.

While I've only voted on major bandwagons I think it's important to note that for the first time, Calvin was being voted for what I think were valid reasons (being quiet, posting some but not contributing, prompting some suspicion on inactives when he even had scum reads). And I voted leectic because there was no other choice, really. We had to find out if he was being framed or not. I do understand why my votes are suspicious though since I admittedly didn't vote Pikochu, but unfortunately I can't take that back.

Anyway onto the mch votes. He hasn't done much and is clinging to meta sure, but I would be pretty surprised if he actually turned out mafia. This probably isn't the right thing to lean on (not evidence), but I don't think he'd be acting this way if he was really mafia. Btw is the case against mch about the lack of contribution or was there something more to it?