Fire starters... Are Game Freak beating a dead horse?

[GengarWithSunglasses]

This kind of bugged me too. Charizard was Fire-Flying by the way. 4x weakness to rock, but immunity to ground (which would be super-effective on fire), 4x resistance to bug and grass. Could be used intelligently. Me: Go Swampert! Ludicolo: LOL I'm gonna' use Giga Drain on the Swampert for a 4x weakness. Me: Come back Swampert! Charizard! Ludicolo: Oh *bleep*. There was a 4x resistance. Originality for fire starters is gone now. It's all fire-fighting these days. Why did this happen Arceus, what happened to fire starters? Did you curse or something? Besides making rock type attacks neutral to them, there is nothing special about them. Nothing unique or memorable really. *Sigh*. Hopefully they'll realize they're mistake in generation 5. A pure fire type is fine with me. Fire-water? Fire-grass? Anything unused is fine, but fire-steel or rock would be kind of stupid.

 

[Gaga]

Besides making rock type attacks neutral to them, there is nothing special about them.

One word; Stealth Rock.

Oh...Wait, one Move. But yeah, Stealth Rock is reason enough alone that the Fire/Fighting dual type is extremely useful, if generic by now. Also Fighting moves are incredible, let alone boosted with STAB.

Though I don't think that the starters should be based on what the metagame is currently like, or any patterns. Otherwise design choices will continue to be severely limited for the Fire and Grass starters.

 

[Ghetsis-Dennis]

One word; Stealth Rock.

Oh...Wait, one Move. But yeah, Stealth Rock is reason enough alone that the Fire/Fighting dual type is extremely useful, if generic by now. Also Fighting moves are incredible, let alone boosted with STAB.

Though I don't think that the starters should be based on what the metagame is currently like, or any patterns. Otherwise design choices will continue to be severely limited for the Fire and Grass starters.

If Stealth Rock were to get nerfed like they did with Explosion, then now is the time to take a break with the Fire/Fighting trend, but that isn't going to happen due to positive receptions of the move in the competitive side, including Smogon, which means Fighting types will continue to thrive around the metagame as there will be less Flying types, who are weak to Stealth Rock, and Psychic types, who are too frail and/or bulky enough if they don't have either Magic Guard or a Steel typing, who are also running amuck now that there are less Fire types due to Stealth Rock.

 

[H-con]

No, the base of my idea is "pigs don't fly". On a slightly personal note, emboar looks bulky, much similar to donphan and rhyperior in my eyes.

While I wouldn't mind it actually being ground, I just think your reason is pretty silly. For a pig, ground seems a reasonable sub-type.

What? We have 3 fire/fighting starters no less. I can see why fans are complaining. 2 of the starter's have a similar back story. Things are starting to getting stale as far as the fire-starter-typing is concerned. There are many, many more types emboar could have been like fire/ground, fire / dark, etc. and we get the same thing for the 3rd time?

My point is that I'm sick and tired of people complaining about it all the time. It's nothing new, and all it does is bring up the same points over and over and over again.

The choice of starter is a fairly important ingame, imo. Majority of the teams are built around the starters. Not choosing the fire starter doesn't solve the problem. What if a person likes starting with a fire type? That means he loses out, right?

If that person likes to start with Fire types, he's certainly not losing anything. It's still Fire. If that person minds the Fighting sub-type so much, then I can only wonder if that person really likes to start with Fire types, considering that the majority of Fire starters have been Fighting as well...

 

[Envoy]

If that person likes to start with Fire types, he's certainly not losing anything. It's still Fire. If that person minds the Fighting sub-type so much, then I can only wonder if that person really likes to start with Fire types, considering that the majority of Fire starters have been Fighting as well...

To be fair, things didn't start getting annoying until Gen IV. Charizard and Typhlosion had different type combinations and Blaziken was the very first Fire/Fighting Starter. Back in Gen III, it was a unique typing, so its only fairly recent that things have become stagnant.

 

[PD83]

Torchic - Great, and its evolutions were even better!
Chimchar - It was alright. A downgrade from Torchic/Blaziken, but whatever.
Tepig - What the...?

 

[GodOfPythons]

Blaziken is good, but I have Charizard for LIFE. Too good that Charizard is the only fire starter that doesn't gain fighting for a second type...

Typhlosion says hi. But Fire/Fighting wouldn't be beneficial to a Pokémon like Charizard, so it is a good thing. (Though in Gen. 1, pretty much the only secondary types were Flying, Poison, and Ground)

No offense but; Emboar, decent? I must be playing a different game.

Depends on your definition of decent. Emboar is definitely not the worst Pokémon out there, but it is by no means great. It is still somewhat usable.

Getting back on topic here, I would like to see a starter with Fire/Dark. Psychic immunity helps, even if by just that much.

forgot about typhlosion, but fire/fighting is getting old.

 

[slate]

I feel like I'm in a minority in this thread; I prefer Infernape over Blaziken, though I'll admit that I'm not an Emboar fan.

The Fire/Fighting typing that has now become commonplace for the starters is interesting and, in my opinion, a very good offensive typing. However, you'd have to be kidding yourself if you think that it's not overdone; it's certainly time for GameFreak to move on to terra incognita. There's a lot of potential for dual-type Fire starters. Fire/Grass, Fire/Electric, and Fire/Ground would all be interesting to see, for example.

 

[Envoy]

I feel like I'm in a minority in this thread; I prefer Infernape over Blaziken, though I'll admit that I'm not an Emboar fan.

The Fire/Fighting typing that has now become commonplace for the starters is interesting and, in my opinion, a very good offensive typing. However, you'd have to be kidding yourself if you think that it's not overdone; it's certainly time for GameFreak to move on to terra incognita. There's a lot of potential for dual-type Fire starters. Fire/Grass, Fire/Electric, and Fire/Ground would all be interesting to see, for example.

Most people like Blaziken better because it was the original. Me? I'm just not a fan of monkeys.

However, most people can agree that both Blaziken and Infernape were done well, they just dropped the ball on Emboar. Interestingly, I still prefer Emboar over Infernape, but again, I don't like monkeys.

 

[ZACH ATTACK]

Blaziken was cool, Infernape was cool at first, and Emboar is just dumb (sorry if you like it). There are so many other type combinations that could've been used. It's fine with me though, as long as they don't do it again in Gen VI. I don't like any of them now. I'm not a big fan of most starters anyways, so maybe that's just me.

 

[Dr. Buni]

I see no problem with the Fire/Fighting starters, the type combination isn't bad and I think it is better than the starter being a pure Fire-type (Or Fire/Flying, which is a pretty bad combination). Plus, Emboar have a badass design, better than Infernape and Blaziken's designs, in my opinion.

On other hand, I agree that Emboar could have been of another type, like Fire/Dark or even Fire/Ground. Samurott would have been more interesting as a Water/Fighting.

Emboar is just dumb (sorry if you like it).

It is not nice to call a Pokémon "dumb", you know. There is 649 of them and I am sure that each one of them have fans, Emboar isn't a exception.

 

[GodOfPythons]

I see no problem with the Fire/Fighting starters, the type combination isn't bad and I think it is better than the starter being a pure Fire-type (Or Fire/Flying, which is a pretty bad combination). Plus, Emboar have a badass design, better than Infernape and Blaziken's designs, in my opinion.

On other hand, I agree that Emboar could have been of another type, like Fire/Dark or even Fire/Ground. Samurott would have been more interesting as a Water/Fighting.

Emboar is just dumb (sorry if you like it).

It is not nice to call a Pokémon "dumb", you know. There is 649 of them and I am sure that each one of them have fans, Emboar isn't a exception.

WOOOOO MAGIKARP!!!!!!

 

[Purellian]

Okay, here's my two cents.

First, I personally prefer Infernape over Blaziken, mostly based on design (Blaziken looks pretty derpy to me, while Infernape looks almost elegant) I also HATE monkeys of pretty much any variety, so for me to choose the monkey over the bird is kinda a big thing. Emboar I dislike for its design (though I do think Tepig is cute, as is Torchic) and for it being the third one in a row. Blaziken gets credit for being the original.

I have absolutely nothing against the dual typing of fire/fighting itself, and admit that it can be a very good combination. What I have an issue with is the fact that ANY dual typing has been used three times IN A ROW. Yes, we've had three pure water and grass types, but not in a row, and having the starters be pure types is less of an issue. If they'd always chosen to have all of the starters stay completely pure, it would be annoying, but since they've had dual typed starters ever since the beginning, they've had us open to new, innovative, and interesting type combinations, and we have been DENIED that for two generations in a row now by having the same combo. It just plain sucks.

Somebody earlier said that if the fighting type bothers those who would otherwise choose fire starters so much, then they must not actually like fire starters to begin with. I completely disagree with this. My fiance is livid with Game Freak for this. His starter of choice has always been the fire starter since Gen I. When they came out with Blaziken he was upset, but figured he could wait for the next gen to come along to have another cool fire starter. And he has had to continue to wait for three generations. He still LOVES fire starters, and while he likes the water and grass starters, he is still kind of chomping at the bit so to speak to be given the chance to start with his preferred type. He personally hates the fact that adding the fighting type gives a weakness to both flying and psychic types that was not there previously.

To those mentioning the meta-game: I understand that it's one of the things you care about and have fun with, but not all of us do it, and some of us want other typings for our starters for the purposes of playing through the story. I can remember exactly NO instances in-game of stealth rock other than the battle with Roark, I think? Seriously, it comes up so incredibly rarely in-game that we just plain don't care about it. YES, it's a fun move in the meta-game that does threaten some pokemon. I feel like it's safe to say that at least the VAST MAJORITY of people here on this forum play the story mode of the game. Significantly less of them play the meta-game, and less of THEM play it with any amount of seriousness. Maybe a lot of us just want a different type combo because it would be cool, dammit, and we don't care if it sucks in competitive play.

tl;dr:

Nothing's wrong with the type combo itself, it's just been overdone. People can still love fire type starters while hating fire/fighting starters. The meta-game is not the only thing to design Pokemon around.

WOO!

 

[Envoy]

Awesome Post

I think I love you.

 

[Ghetsis-Dennis]

To those mentioning the meta-game: I understand that it's one of the things you care about and have fun with, but not all of us do it, and some of us want other typings for our starters for the purposes of playing through the story. I can remember exactly NO instances in-game of stealth rock other than the battle with Roark, I think? Seriously, it comes up so incredibly rarely in-game that we just plain don't care about it. YES, it's a fun move in the meta-game that does threaten some pokemon. I feel like it's safe to say that at least the VAST MAJORITY of people here on this forum play the story mode of the game. Significantly less of them play the meta-game, and less of THEM play it with any amount of seriousness. Maybe a lot of us just want a different type combo because it would be cool, dammit, and we don't care if it sucks in competitive play.

The metagame is becoming more accepted to the community to the point where it's a must be a fan of the series, and you rely too much on the Pokemon you deeply care about rather than using the best of the best, you will be tormented by snobby (or bias) competitive users (I am guilty of being forced to move to the competitive side). The Sinnoh starters' secondary types hinted that the metagame was on GF's mind because those are the most dominant types, and they do not even bother nerfing them to give other types a chance. However, those types alone aren't what's more important. If the Pokemon is a tank or a lightning bruiser using either of those dominant types/ dual types, they're automatically OU. GF could've easily made Emboar bulky, but since all Fire starters have frail defenses, they're forced to make him frail and use that remaining stat numbers on its HP and Physical Attack, which leads to its mediocrity in both in-game and the metagame, and put his Fire/Fighting typing, as well as any mono/dual typing it would've had, to waste.

 

[Dr. Buni]

Emboar isn't mediocre in-game =)

To those mentioning the meta-game: I understand that it's one of the things you care about and have fun with, but not all of us do it, and some of us want other typings for our starters for the purposes of playing through the story. I can remember exactly NO instances in-game of stealth rock other than the battle with Roark, I think? Seriously, it comes up so incredibly rarely in-game that we just plain don't care about it. YES, it's a fun move in the meta-game that does threaten some pokemon. I feel like it's safe to say that at least the VAST MAJORITY of people here on this forum play the story mode of the game. Significantly less of them play the meta-game, and less of THEM play it with any amount of seriousness. Maybe a lot of us just want a different type combo because it would be cool, dammit, and we don't care if it sucks in competitive play.

Perfect.

 

[Ghetsis-Dennis]

Emboar isn't mediocre in-game =)

I used one before, and whenever it gets hit most of the time, it has half of its HP left, and it won't survive the next hit due to its slow speed.

 

[Alolan Ninetales]

Personally, I love Emboar out of the three fire/fighting starters. It looks a lot bulkier as opposed to Blaziken and Infernape(I'm not saying that they're frail or anything). While I would've liked Emboar to maybe be a fire/dark, it would've still been easily outclassed by Houndoom. Fire/Ground wouldn't have done much justice for it either since Camerupt, and better Pokemon. Not to say that I would never use Emboar because he's my current favorite fire starter.

In my honest opinion, whatever happened to just enjoying the Pokemon and playing the game? I like most people wouldnt' want another fire/fighting in Gen VI, but we shouldn't hate the Pokemon because they were labeled with Fire/Fighting. Honestly, I'd like either a pure fire starter in the next gen, or one with a much better type combination. fire/water*shot* Also, I just want to say that each and every Pokemon has the potential to be good (whether through evolution, trade, training, etc). It's up to the person who raises it. I love most Pokemon that most people wouldn't think twice about using.

but this isn't about the metagame and how people see it, but rather the fire starters. So, I'll return to them.

Blaziken= has good speed going for it, but I found it way more frail than Emboar and Infernape combined.
Infernape= I've heard people nickname it 'godfernape', and is the one that most people could blitz through a game with.
Emboar= Self-cooking bacon. <3 Badass design, bulky HP(somewhat anyways), and can deliver a nasty blow when it strikes. Also, bacon.

 

[Fig]

1. No one has any obligation to follow the metagame. I certainly don't follow it (and look at me, I practically run this site!), and I don't see why anyone else should have to. Anyone who disagrees and feel like snobbing and mocking those who don't follow the metagame will be treated as volunteering themselves as test subject for a scientific experiment in how many bans it takes to teach them the error of their ways.

2. Either way, this thread is not about the metagame. Please stop bringing it up as an answer to everything and everyone.

3. On topic, I used to always play the fire starters. Charizard, Typhlosion, Blaziken.

I dropped the fire starters like hot potatoes (pun intended) around the time I realized that they were just annoying rethreads of Blaziken and originality was off the menu anymore (I went Torterra in Pearl, Empoleon in Platinum, Samurott in Black, and likely Samurott again next game because Serperior just isn't my style). The fire types have just been one disappointment after another.

We need something new and interesting for the firestarters, not a fourth re-thread of fire-fighters.

 

[Dr. Buni]

Emboar isn't mediocre in-game =)

I used one before, and whenever it gets hit most of the time, it has half of its HP left, and it won't survive the next hit due to its slow speed.

And the same goes for Blaziken and Infernape.
All of the three Fire/Fighting starters hit hard, but can't take hits properly.

Out of the three Unova starters, Emboar was the one I liked to use the most, even though Serperior fits more in my defensive way of playing.

Plus, again, Emboar looks awesome. Even if it isn't the best Pokémon to use in a team, its looks makes it worth using.