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Generation VII Legendary Pokemon Discussion

Silverwynde said:
For me, the design on that Lugia makes sense, since we know Lugia stays underwater most of the time. The aquatic element works for me.
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That's where the difference between real and fake comes in. Fakes generally appeal to fans' wishes and desires, while canonical designs have split opinions by fans.
For me, the fake just irked me out because they are always awkward looking no matter how appealing they are to fan wishes.
 
Zebat said:
It could be Xerneas/Yveltal do get forms with +100 and move to 780 BST, but then if Zygarde Complete is something crazy like 800 it's still more powerful than them. We just don't know anything about Zygarde Complete's "powers" to start trying to shut down others ideas.

That being said, I don't want forms for them because they are fine as is imo. Xerneas is also borderline broken as it is and +100 isn't something that should be given freely to it (not that +100 was suggested, I'm just going off what Primal Groudon/Kyogre were given). But to each their own.

Edit: I suppose I should clarify that 800 is a lot and I'm not saying it will or should happen. My point is just that we don't actually know what Complete Zygarde's stats are for someone to say that Xerneas/Yveltal forms would undermine it.
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Well the Zygarde we currently have is 50%... So I mean mathematically speaking, 100% Zygarde should have about... Oh... A 1200 BST.... Eh, not much.... Hehehehehehhe
(KIDDINGGGG)

Vinx said:
They don't look any more overdesigned than Mega Diancie and Mega Rayquaza to me.
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Let's not forget Black and White Kyurem.

Silverwynde said:
To me, Mega Rayquaza looks a bit over-designed to my eyes; it was as if GF added some bangles and called it good. No, I don't hate it but it was off-putting at the beginning.
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Agreed about Mega Raycraycray, it is a bit over-designed, but I actually liked it a lot from the very beginning (and still do).

Tensho said:
That's where the difference between real and fake comes in. Fakes generally appeal to fans' wishes and desires, while canonical designs have split opinions by fans.
For me, the fake just irked me out because they are always awkward looking no matter how appealing they are to fan wishes.
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Hmm I wouldn't say that's true... I mean, I don't think the entire fandom entirely agrees on one thing anyway, so I think they'd be split on fake designs too... I mean, we see that happening on the Fakes discussion, where some people like em and some don't.
Definitely agreed on the second point though. Fakes always look awkward; few fans can perfectly mimic Sugimori's style, I guess.
 
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Lugia and Ho-oh don't even fit the Sun and Moon theme anyway. Aside from new gen 7 legendary pokemon, I expect Kalos legendaries and some Sinnoh legends in the games.
 
Well, they kind of do, but not exactly. Lugia lives in the ocean, the ocean tides are controlled by the moon, and Ho-oh is fire and rainbows, fire like the sun, rainbows like sunlight. Still though, yes, they have never been explicitly associated with the moon/sun and I don't think that they will be in these games.
 
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Phoenixon said:
Agreed about Mega Raycraycray, it is a bit over-designed, but I actually liked it a lot from the very beginning (and still do).
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It's also very hard to see the Delta motif, lol.

When thinking about how powerful Mega Rayquaza is on its lonesome, it kinda makes sense somewhat for it to be overdesigned - then again, neither Mega Mewtwo design really goes overboard (aside from Y looking like a coat hanger) and they were the previous record holders for most powerful Mega Evolution.

At least the animations show us why these design elements are in place... Though it does kinda make Mega Rayquaza end up looking like a bunch of streamers.
 
TouyaShiro said:
It's also very hard to see the Delta motif, lol.

When thinking about how powerful Mega Rayquaza is on its lonesome, it kinda makes sense somewhat for it to be overdesigned - then again, neither Mega Mewtwo design really goes overboard (aside from Y looking like a coat hanger) and they were the previous record holders for most powerful Mega Evolution.

At least the animations show us why these design elements are in place... Though it does kinda make Mega Rayquaza end up looking like a bunch of streamers.
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To this day, I completely forgot that there might BE a delta motif, so I never looked for one.
Now that I'm looking... Except for the triangle on its head, what more is there?

Agreed about power ~ design, and in continuing that defense of Rayquaza, I like streamers man. I love streamers.
 
Phoenixon said:
To this day, I completely forgot that there might BE a delta motif, so I never looked for one.
Now that I'm looking... Except for the triangle on its head, what more is there?
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The triangle on his head is the same symbol that fades in when the Delta Episode begins post-credits after the first League victory, and in addition, the head shape formed by the scythes he has for cheeks is a triangle. That being said, it's upside down - it's supposed to be Δ
 
TouyaShiro said:
The triangle on his head is the same symbol that fades in when the Delta Episode begins post-credits after the first League victory, and in addition, the head shape formed by the scythes he has for cheeks is a triangle. That being said, it's upside down - it's supposed to be Δ
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(I haven't played ORAS....)
Yeah, upside down or not, I guess it doesn't matter that much... I say it counts
 
Not to double post, but that last post was some time ago and I wanted to say something unrelated. I'm not sure anyone mentioned this before, but I think it's possible that the 'Sun' legendary might be based on the Garuda. It has very strong associations with the sun, including being big enough to block it out, and pulling the chariot of a sun god. The Garuda is also known to be in contention with the Naga, a mythological serpent people associated with water, which could be the moon legendary, or could even be Zygarde.
 
If you're referring to the alleged leak of the "sun dragon", then yeah, I can definitely see it.
 
^I just meant in general, not necessarily the 'leak'. Everyone seems to think the Sun legendary should be a lion for some reason but I think a Garuda makes more sense. It could be Fire/Flying, or maybe Fire/Dragon.
 
OMG @NoirGrimoir I'd be so down for a Garuda based legendary, especially for the game I'll be getting! Any incite on the moon one?
 
^Garuda is generally at odds with the Naga, as I said, which are a type of serpent people which are also associated with water, seen as spirits over rivers, streams and wells and able to call rain, and are sometimes associated with the Leviathan. The Garuda is the King of Birds, just like the Naga's have a Queen. Snakes in general, just like the moon, are often associated with femininity (think the snake in Adam and Eve, Isis also created a snake to bite Ra the sun god), in the same way that the sun is often associated with the moon. The same deities associated with the moon are sometimes associated with Snakes, and Snakes in Eastern mythology are also associated with water, which is in turn related to the Moon controlling the tides. So if the Sun Legendary is a Garuda-like pokemon, the Moon legendary may be some kind of serpent or sea-dragon, much like the Leviathan. So perhaps a Water Type or Water/Dragon.
 
Not to double post, but this is unrelated to my last post. TyranitarTube just released a Speculation video that kind of blew my mind. I think he's on to something here.

 
That's a really interesting video. It does seems convincing to me. It would also be great to know that GF really thinks the Pokémon mythology/lore through.
 
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I love TTarTube, but I can't agree with him here.

a) Game Freak ain't gonna use a Gen VI Pokémon as a Gen VII mascot.
b) Zygarde is stated in-dex to be protecting the ecosystem of KALOS. Kalos, guys, not the world.
c) Zygarde is what the anime's current plot revolves around. Good luck making the Sun and Moon anime series with one of the main legendaries already spent.
d) Strange Souvenir looks nothing like Complete Zygarde.

I'll give him this - Complete Zygarde is a Gen VII forme of a Gen VI Pokémon, so it's definitely tied to the SM legends in some way, but no more than it is to Xerneas and Yveltal. We might get a post-game plot in which Zygarde, a legendary Pokémon from Kalos, gets involved for some reason, say, the evil team's remaining admins captured it and we need to help...
 
ewormPL said:
I love TTarTube, but I can't agree with him here.

a) Game Freak ain't gonna use a Gen VI Pokémon as a Gen VII mascot.
b) Zygarde is stated in-dex to be protecting the ecosystem of KALOS. Kalos, guys, not the world.
c) Zygarde is what the anime's current plot revolves around. Good luck making the Sun and Moon anime series with one of the main legendaries already spent.
d) Strange Souvenir looks nothing like Complete Zygarde.

I'll give him this - Complete Zygarde is a Gen VII forme of a Gen VI Pokémon, so it's definitely tied to the SM legends in some way, but no more than it is to Xerneas and Yveltal. We might get a post-game plot in which Zygarde, a legendary Pokémon from Kalos, gets involved for some reason, say, the evil team's remaining admins captured it and we need to help...
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I can't agree on your second and fourth point. It would be a huge spoiler from GF to already state the Zygarde is the protector of the whole world in the Pokédex in the games. I can see why GF would say only Kalos in Gen VI, and well the strange souvenir. It really doesn't have to look like Zygarde. It's also very valid that it just looks like an object from a certain region, but yeah, that does make TTarTube argument a weak.

About the anime is very good point though. Didn't think of that. It do would be a bit strange to already have a main legendary from the upcoming game in the anime
 
I agree with TT's theory to a small extent. I don't think it'll play out that elaborately, but if S/M ends up the Johto to Kanto equivalent of Kalos, it would explain why some aspects of X/Y felt so incomplete (lore wise, loose ends wise, etc, not actually the entire game itself.).

Perhaps GF wanted to do a storyline that would span multiple generations? I don't think Zygarde will be a mascot for Sun and Moon, but I wouldn't be surprised if he reigns over them in a similar way he does (or is at least implied to) Xerneas and Yveltal.


I also agree with earlier posts that Xerneas and Yveltal were amazing mascot designs, possibly the best yet imo, and I have hope that S/M will be just as good. The logo's are my favourite out of any generation yet, so I hope I have similar thoughts towards the mascots.
 
I really want them to decrease the number of legendary Pokemon. They feel so much less cool and special when there's so many. Gens 3, 4, and 5 had way too many legends. I personally think the number of legendary Pokemon in Gens 1, 2, and 6 are plenty. Even including mythical legends, I really don't want any generation (in this case, 7) to introduce more than maybe 5 ish.

Specifically for Generation 7, I would like to see something similar to Gen 6. Go ahead and have main mascot legendaries, I guess. Then maybe one extra special in-game. Then a couple mythical.

I really loved how they used the legendary birds in place of a new legendary trio (secondary). In SM, for example, it would be kinda cool if the legendary beasts from Johto were the secondary legendary trio.

TLDR: Too many legends. Reduce the number.
 
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