If Tracey was a more popular character, would Brock have never returned?

[Cybersai]

If Tracey had been a more popular character instead of well...being not liked so much, do you think we would have ever seen Brock return from Prov. Ivy?

I actually rewatched that episode today which is why I'm posting this, and I noticed the ep where Brock left was very emotional as if we were never going to see him again.

If Tracey went over with the audience better than he did, would we see Brock just as a cameo character like with what happened with Misty?

 

[Ashfangirl17]

I think if that were to happen yes we'd never have seen Brock agian.

 

[Yamato-san]

I actually rewatched that episode today which is why I'm posting this, and I noticed the ep where Brock left was very emotional as if we were never going to see him again.

that's exactly what I was saying. Ironically, I recall you stating you didn't like his departure in the Orange Islands.

Anyway, hasn't Kenji's goal of meeting Ookido always been established? If so, I gotta wonder if Kenji would've met Ookido, have a short chat, and then just continue into Jouto with Satoshi, or would he have been replaced by a third male sidekick? For that matter, if he did continue, would he have grown as badly stale as Takeshi did in AG, or would he have ended up doing even more than Takeshi did in Jouto (which was actually a surprisingly productive saga for the moving piece of scenery)?

 

[Snake Bandage]

I'm guessing the initial plan was to replace the third companion every time Ash goes to a new region. Guess that completely backfired once people bitched about Brock's departure.

 

[PikaPi123]

I don't really see anything wrong with Tracey. He's kinda like Brock but he probally got bumped off because people got sick of him and he wasn't as funny as Brock. I say they liked Brock's "Flirting with every woman he sees" personality. I found that funny.

 

[Cybersai]

I didn't mind Tracey either, but I can see why people wouldn't like him. He technically didn't add much to the show when he was on the group, and a guy sketching in his notebook is a far cry from the most interesting goals in the anime.

He was only on the show for like 30 episodes, I wonder if he would have gotten some character development if he stayed for Johto instead of Brock returning?

 

[AtoMan]

I'm guessing the initial plan was to replace the third companion every time Ash goes to a new region. Guess that completely backfired once people bitched about Brock's departure.

First of all, Orange Islands belong to Kanto.

Secondly... it was done. OI changed Brock to Tracey, Johto changed Tracey to Brock xD

 

[Snake Bandage]

First of all, Orange Islands belong to Kanto.

I meant that he's starting a new challenge in a different place. He has never been to the Orange Islands before, right? Besides, I'm not entire sure the Orange Islands are in the jurisdiction of Kanto.

Secondly... it was done. OI changed Brock to Tracey, Johto changed Tracey to Brock xD

I meant switching the third companion with a different character every time. So Brock's first, then Tracey, then someone else for Johto. I don't think they meant to bring Brock back.

 

[Rocketshipper]

I think Tracey would have been replaced by a new guy character, maybe Kenta from GSC, if it hadn't been fro Brock's huge popularity. Tracey wanted to meet Proffessor Oak from the very first episode he appeared in, and having him stay to be the Professor's assistant was a completely natural thing for him to do.

 

[ImJessieTR]

I say they liked Brock's "Flirting with every woman he sees" personality. I found that funny.

Exactly. Having Tracey sing "Two Perfect Girls" just ... wouldn't ... work. I wouldn't have minded the fact he had no backstory if it had been played up as a mystery. There was absolutely no reason for him to be there ... yes his hobby made him closer to Prof Oak, but he never got paid as an artist and with Pokedexes his hobby was pointless -- when Tracey says he sketched a new pokemon, how do you know he just didn't make it up? God knows I like having Tracey be Gio's son in my fics, but they tried way too hard to make Tracey the anti-Brock.

 

[The Big Al]

that's exactly what I was saying. Ironically, I recall you stating you didn't like his departure in the Orange Islands.

Anyway, hasn't Kenji's goal of meeting Ookido always been established? If so, I gotta wonder if Kenji would've met Ookido, have a short chat, and then just continue into Jouto with Satoshi, or would he have been replaced by a third male sidekick? For that matter, if he did continue, would he have grown as badly stale as Takeshi did in AG, or would he have ended up doing even more than Takeshi did in Jouto (which was actually a surprisingly productive saga for the moving piece of scenery)?

Actually, Tracey could have a purpose. Oak could send him with Ash (considering how productive Ash was for encountering Pokemon) to study the new Pokemon. Granted it'd be him sketching Pokemon (and some cute girls) but it'd be better than Brock following him just because. I mean, has Brock realy advanced his goals toward being a breeder that much since season 1?

 

[Pie]

I don't think so, Scotty.

As many people have pointed out, Tracey was probably going to be left at Oak's lab, no questions asked.

But the question is, even if Tracey being left at the lab wasn't premeditated, why didn't they replace him with some other male character, if Tracey was unpopular? Why switch back to Brock, when somehow they had been told Brock wasn't leaving a good impression which caused the switch in the first place?

The fact is simple. The fans wanted Brock back. The writers didn't learn that until he left. And that's why he came back. A result of his own popularity, not Tracey's lack thereof.

Scott... if you'll pardon an aside, you're making several threads related in some way or another to Brock lately, and all of them seem to focus on a negative viewpoint - Brock and Misty not being active battlers, Tracey and Max being unpopular which is why we're "stuck" with Brock... is there something bothering you?

 

[Cybersai]

It's conincidence, I made this thread because I've been rewatching Orange lately, (I came to the realization that I've only been watching AG and D/P for the last couple of years, so I decided to go back and refresh my memory on Kanto and Orange as well), and I noticed that Brock's farewell was very emotional.

Why take Brock off for only 30 episodes? Was there really a point? Hell, they could have had Brock and Tracey on the show at the same time and it wouldn't have made much of a difference.

Was this the "testing ground" for character swaps that we would get used to with the girls in the future?

Mainly I'm wondering, what exactly prompted the creation of Tracey in the first place? Its not like he advertised anything from the game, and he's the only main character not based on a videogame character in the first place. (Max is debateable, since the schoolboy in R/S looks just like him).

Did we ever find out the true reason behind Brock leaving and Tracey replacing him for Orange, and then the writers rushing to bring Brock back again so soon after Tracey was only here for what...30 episodes? Why the quick turn around? And if Tracey was more popular, what would have been Brock's fate in the anime?

 

[Pie]

The reason was, IIRC, there was some negative feedback from the American audience (focus group or something? no one's ever specified) about Brock as a character. So, the Japanese bid him a fond farewell and replaced him with someone who they felt might sit better with the audience - Tracey.

And the decision really went over badly with fans. Not because of Tracey because - as I said - if that had been the case, they would've just replaced both of them with another male character instead of bringing back the one who supposedly didn't work well. So, they brought back Brock. And the fans were happy again.

Granted, that could be just a folk story passed around among the fans, but the evidence supports it. As you said - why take Brock off for only 30 episodes?

 

[ImJessieTR]

As many people have pointed out, Tracey was probably going to be left at Oak's lab, no questions asked.

Yeah, like the rest of Ash's team.

The fact is simple. The fans wanted Brock back. The writers didn't learn that until he left. And that's why he came back. A result of his own popularity, not Tracey's lack thereof.

It was like having an affair. You don't know how great the first lover was until you try to replace them. Ash was a fool to get rid of Brock, seeing how no other team member can wipe their own butts without him.

 

[anonymous920314]

Yeah, if Tracey had been more popular, I feel like we would've gotten male character switches instead of female character switches . . All though that would've been odd seeing as contests are more suited for girls, even though Ruby does them, I think it wouldn't of flowed well. So nevermind that ;___;

 

[TTEchidna]

Who's to say Misty wouldn't've gotten sent back to Cerulean after Johto, though, anyway? Ash could've gone with both Brendan AND May.

 

[Cybersai]

Who's to say Misty wouldn't've gotten sent back to Cerulean after Johto, though, anyway? Ash could've gone with both Brendan AND May.

Misty was most likely going to get axed no matter what happened in the series. Some people don't realize that the only reason Misty was in Johto was because there was no secondary quest invented in the games yet, and Marina wasn't invented until Crystal version. Had Marina shown up at the start of G/S, Misty probably would have left the show at the end of Orange.

Some people like to exaggerate Misty's importance to the series beyond the sidekick status she had on the show, but now that Dawn is here it really puts into perspective that Misty was just "a" girl in the Pokemon anime, whereas her fanbase actually believed her to be "THE" main girl in the Pokemon anime.

And getting back to Tracey, yeah, I guess you guys are right. Even if he was popular, maybe we would have also had new male sidekicks every region. Although I can't see Brendan being a sidekick since he's a hero from the games, they'd probably have to invent a new male character.

 

[Luis92]

tracey is an okay character but he can never replace brock

he's coool

 

[Sharpshooter]

I agree with Pie earlier on stating Tracey's departure was more to do with the popularity of Brock rather than the unpopularity of Tracey himself.

Brock was going over well with fans at the time, the move was wrongly timed, unless the new character was a success, the departure of Brock was never going to go over that well.

I think if Tracey had come in at later point, say at the end of Johto when Brock's popularity was beginning to fade a bit, I think he would have probably fared better popularity-wise and ultmatley would have had stayed longer in the animé.