May and Dawn’s Worst Contest Victories

[Froakie]

May vs. Brock. Anybody would be able to tell that that contest was just a fix. lol. Was very unfair.

 

[Karamazov]

May vs. Brock. Anybody would be able to tell that that contest was just a fix. lol. Was very unfair.

Now there's a thought: characters fixing Contests. May would have the resources: her father is important and influencial, after all. But I believe May would want to work for her goal using her own merits.

 

[Afrojisiac-19]

Dawn beating May in the wallace cup made Dawn win this poll.
That just adds her up on the cheapest wins ever.

this has been quoted for the truth!

 

[The Puppetmaster]

May vs. Joshua - Skitty's Blizzard (ice) beating out Houndoom's Flamethrower (fire). What?
May vs. Brock - Eevee's moveset was pretty boring so the writers couldn't do much with it. I'll cut them some slack, but the battle was still meh.
Dawn vs. Ursula (Pachirisu vs. Gabite) - The writers were creative in the way the contest battle went, but I just don't understand how Pachirisu won with only 2 effective moves and at a disadvantage.
Dawn vs. Ursula (Grand Festival) - Pachirisu and Mamoswine taking that many hits and not getting knocked out/running out of points seemed unrealistic.

I haven't seen a lot of May's battles in a while, so I only put down the ones I remembered.

 

[Hellion]

Dawn beating May was just ridiculous. A still fairly inexperienced coordinator beating one who's been in two grand festivals and training for way longer? Please.

I think you're totally entitled to that opinion, but can I ask you why you, and other of similar opinion feel that way ? If it's just because May had more experience and been in more battles, well if we push that logic to its fullest why have battles in the first place if all that decides the winner is their experience. Countless times in sports and games, you see people lose to someone who has less experience then them. We often see that in poker, tennis, chess, etc. Plus, most of the gym leaders and adversaries that Ash has beaten have had more experience and more training then him. While I respect that you think that May should have won, I think that simply saying that May should have won because she has more experience is somewhat simplistic.

Plus, when you watch that battle, you realize that both coordinators did a good job at having interesting tactics. Dawn used the spin tactic, Piplup surfed on Whirlpool, used bubblebeam to trap Glaceon and turn its Shadow Ball against it. May on the other hand used Mirror Coat to turn Whirlpool against Piplup and Secret Power to try to paralyze Piplup. Though throughout the battle, Dawn seemed to be more in control of the battle than May.

On top of that, May herself was battling confidence issues and was using a pokémon that had just evolved for its first contest battle... I don't see this one as being totally unbelievable, though that's just my opinion and I don't expect anyone to fully agree with me.

Dawn vs. Ursula (Pachirisu vs. Gabite) - The writers were creative in the way the contest battle went, but I just don't understand how Pachirisu won with only 2 effective moves and at a disadvantage.

Because Pachirisu actually made Gabite's moves miss by using Discharge to deflect Stone Edge and Dragon Claw.

 

[The Puppetmaster]

Because Pachirisu actually made Gabite's moves miss by using Discharge to deflect Stone Edge and Dragon Claw.

I remembered that, but I also remembered that Pachirisu's Sweet Kiss didn't do anything to Gabite. Super Fang hit I think 2 times (maybe 3). Pachirisu evading the attacks with Discharge was clever, but I still didn't think it was enough to let Dawn win. I'll try to rewatch the episode and see if it's less DEM than I'm thinking. Sorry.

EDIT: Oh and I forgot to mention that I don't think the May vs. Harley Contest battle in Saffron City was bad itself, but Squirtle learning Ice Beam right before was. (I guess it goes together, but I'm counting the two as separate.)

 

[Paulisthebest]

I remembered that, but I also remembered that Pachirisu's Sweet Kiss didn't do anything to Gabite. Super Fang hit I think 2 times (maybe 3). Pachirisu evading the attacks with Discharge was clever, but I still didn't think it was enough to let Dawn win. I'll try to rewatch the episode and see if it's less DEM than I'm thinking. Sorry.

EDIT: Oh and I forgot to mention that I don't think the May vs. Harley Contest battle in Saffron City was bad itself, but Squirtle learning Ice Beam right before was. (I guess it goes together, but I'm counting the two as separate.)

I watched the episode twice yesterday during the battle round. Sweet Kiss was shattered with Aerial Ace from Gabite. I guess it means that unless Sweet Kiss makes direct contact with its target it will not be confused. Though Aerial Ace made direct contact with the move it probably smashed the hearts before the confusion effect could occur.

Every Super Fang was dodged/blocked by Gabite if I remember correctly. So, I don't think that it took any damage. If the move works like it does in the games even repeated Super Fangs wouldn't take it down.

 

[The Puppetmaster]

I watched the episode twice yesterday during the battle round. Sweet Kiss was shattered with Aerial Ace from Gabite. I guess it means that unless Sweet Kiss makes direct contact with its target it will not be confused. Though Aerial Ace made direct contact with the move it probably smashed the hearts before the confusion effect could occur.

Every Super Fang was dodged/blocked by Gabite if I remember correctly. So, I don't think that it took any damage. If the move works like it does in the games even repeated Super Fangs wouldn't take it down.

Yeah, I'm slightly remembering that part now (the Aerial Ace shattering Sweet Kiss). I think it would have been a more believable win if Sweet Kiss hit and Gabite was confused for part of the match.

But like you said, Super Fang was blocked most of the time and Gabite didn't grow tired from what I could tell.

 

[Paulisthebest]

Yeah, I'm slightly remembering that part now (the Aerial Ace shattering Sweet Kiss). I think it would have been a more believable win if Sweet Kiss hit and Gabite was confused for part of the match.

But like you said, Super Fang was blocked most of the time and Gabite didn't grow tired from what I could tell.

Yeah, that way the damage would not have been completely one-sided. See Gabite didn't take any damage at all from what I could tell. Spark/Discharge do nothing on a Gronud type, Sweet Kiss was shattered and Super Fang was blocked with its fin. So, Gabite wasn't really tired at all. Pachu...(I'm too lazy to look up how to spell I'm sleepy haha) was looking pretty tired (it was nice to see the writers do that instead of making it another Skitty that wasn't tired no matter how much damage it took).

Besides damage, I imagine it being worn out from electricity usage. It must have taken a lot to block Stone Edge and then power up to shatter the rocks and then blocking Dragon Claw, pushing through Dragon Rage with Spark plus all of the damage I'm surprised that it was still standing. Aerial Ace hit over and over, but flying type moves do little and I think that Dragon Claw hit once so it was able to hang in there. However, its been said over and over that the match just wasn't fair.

 

[The Puppetmaster]

Yeah, that way the damage would not have been completely one-sided. See Gabite didn't take any damage at all from what I could tell. Spark/Discharge do nothing on a Gronud type, Sweet Kiss was shattered and Super Fang was blocked with its fin. So, Gabite wasn't really tired at all. Pachu...(I'm too lazy to look up how to spell I'm sleepy haha) was looking pretty tired (it was nice to see the writers do that instead of making it another Skitty that wasn't tired no matter how much damage it took).

Besides damage, I imagine it being worn out from electricity usage. It must have taken a lot to block Stone Edge and then power up to shatter the rocks and then blocking Dragon Claw, pushing through Dragon Rage with Spark plus all of the damage I'm surprised that it was still standing. Aerial Ace hit over and over, but flying type moves do little and I think that Dragon Claw hit once so it was able to hang in there. However, its been said over and over that the match just wasn't fair.

Yeah, at least the rodent was believable with its stamina. I'm guessing Super Fang did some damage to Gabite, at least. Surely it would hurt for an overgrown fang to hit any part of the body.

Pachirisu not growing tired from electricity usage is a bit of development from where it began, though. Pikachu had apparently been teaching Pachi how to not wear itself out so easily. But it taking Aerial Ace over and over should have eventually worn it out (but I guess that's what the timer's for). Ursula, I guess, was right in saying the timer saved Dawn.

 

[Hellion]

However, its been said over and over that the match just wasn't fair.

I rewatched that match today, and while not as good as Dawn and Ursula's second battle, I didn't feel it was unfair. If anything that match exemplified that contest battles were different than regular battles, which AG failed to convey. Ursula landed attacks, altough she didn't use any combinations, or any creative or interesting ways to use attacks. She went for the knockout, while Dawn made sure to make Pachirisu shine and use attacks in a creative way. How is it unfair to have Dawn win when she actually did what is expected of a coordinator better than her opponent? At least that is my opinion, but everyone is welcomed to disagree.

 

[The Puppetmaster]

I rewatched that match today, and while not as good as Dawn and Ursula's second battle, I didn't feel it was unfair. If anything that match exemplified that contest battles were different than regular battles, which AG failed to convey. Ursula landed attacks, altough she didn't use any combinations, or any creative or interesting ways to use attacks. She went for the knockout, while Dawn made sure to make Pachirisu shine and use attacks in a creative way. How is it unfair to have Dawn win when she actually did what is expected of a coordinator better than her opponent? At least that is my opinion, but everyone is welcomed to disagree.

I understand what you're saying now. I guess in a way it was good for Pachirisu to only have 2 effective moves because it allowed Dawn to be more creative and expand on the moves Pachirisu was stuck with. I think the battle was still quite enjoyable despite the disadvantage.

 

[Ranger Jack Walker]

May vs. Brock

Oh dear God!(And I'm an atheist!)

It was so bad, it wasn't even funny.

 

[Del Rio]

Thank you for reminding me about May's horrible little Squirtle that ruined a few of her otherwise good Kanto contest episodes.

I'd take another Pachirisu victory from nowhere before witnessing that travesty again.

 

[garrison-san]

I wasn't a fan of Dawn vs. Jessie in the Grand Festival, because it seemed so rushed and one-sided. I mean, I was completely expecting Jessie to lose, so it's not the "victory" as such that bothers me. It's just that, after coming this far, I think that Jessie's Sinnoh contest arc deserved to end on a bit more of a bang, not such a pathetic whimper.

 

[Cybersai]

Thank you for reminding me about May's horrible little Squirtle that ruined a few of her otherwise good Kanto contest episodes.

Squirtle Vs. Jessie's/ Banette in the last Kanto contest was a perfectly good battle.

 

[Paulisthebest]

Yeah, at least the rodent was believable with its stamina. I'm guessing Super Fang did some damage to Gabite, at least. Surely it would hurt for an overgrown fang to hit any part of the body.

Pachirisu not growing tired from electricity usage is a bit of development from where it began, though. Pikachu had apparently been teaching Pachi how to not wear itself out so easily. But it taking Aerial Ace over and over should have eventually worn it out (but I guess that's what the timer's for). Ursula, I guess, was right in saying the timer saved Dawn.

I don’t know remember how Garchomp blocked the attacks from Paul’s Pokemon using her fins it blocked Fire Spin/Blizzard/Frenzy Plant? However, Fire Spin was still able to engulf it in flames, Blizzard probably still did some damage it was 4 xs effective after all, but all of the Frenzy Plant vines were clearly stopped by the fins. Either it cut down damage or blocked it completely. Remember “Discharge Tail” blocked Dragon Claw. Not to mention that some Pokemon (in the anime only really) use their own body parts to block attacks or damage; Muck absorbing Bellsprout’s attacks (the 4th round rumble), Macargo withdrawing into its shell to avoid damage from attack (Can’t beat the heat!), Pikachu/Raichu using their tail as a ground to avoid the damage from an electric shock (Pikachu did it in Electric Shock Showdown!) and Raichu does it as a natural defense from its own power and there are many other examples such as a Pokemon’s own special abilities(this is shown in the games and the anime).

So, I think that it is safe to assume that Gabite and Garchomp use their fins to block moves while Gible uses it mouth haha. True, Pikachu’s lessons may have taught it how to conserve but still it took a lot of juice to block powerful moves like Stone Edge so I must give it credit for that. Yes, if not for the timer the match was clearly meant for Ursula.

I rewatched that match today, and while not as good as Dawn and Ursula's second battle, I didn't feel it was unfair. If anything that match exemplified that contest battles were different than regular battles, which AG failed to convey. Ursula landed attacks, altough she didn't use any combinations, or any creative or interesting ways to use attacks. She went for the knockout, while Dawn made sure to make Pachirisu shine and use attacks in a creative way. How is it unfair to have Dawn win when she actually did what is expected of a coordinator better than her opponent? At least that is my opinion, but everyone is welcomed to disagree.

True, Ursula used power attacks the only appeal was from her Gabite doing still poses for a few seconds then swiftly launching an attack. My favorite was the second time it used Stone Edge but instead of attacking directly the rocks flew around to surround its opponent before finally pointing and firing down. Even with Discharge it had a hard time blocking the moves as the stones almost penetrated through the electric shield. I guess it’s true that the best trainer/coordinator can make the best of a bad situation with only a few moves (with only one doing any direct damage Super Fang).

I understand what you're saying now. I guess in a way it was good for Pachirisu to only have 2 effective moves because it allowed Dawn to be more creative and expand on the moves Pachirisu was stuck with. I think the battle was still quite enjoyable despite the disadvantage.

Yeah, like I mentioned before the best trainer is one that can do the most with the fewest moves possible. That match really pushed the creative use of Dawn’s skills using moves that are completely ineffective to block Gabite’s attack to show off her own Pokemon’s skills.

May vs. Brock

Oh dear God!(And I'm an atheist!)

It was so bad, it wasn't even funny.

No arguments there that match was a total waste. I really wish that Brock could have won for him to do something big before being pushed to the background in DP…

Thank you for reminding me about May's horrible little Squirtle that ruined a few of her otherwise good Kanto contest episodes.

I'd take another Pachirisu victory from nowhere before witnessing that travesty again.

Yes, Squirtle did really jack up some good potential in May’s contest matches. Although I will say that I liked the Ice Beam appeals that just made Dawn’s appeals rather boring. Too bad it didn’t evolve sooner. One theory I have is that it would have probably evolved after taking out Drew’s Flygon, but Absol swiftly knocked it out with Iron Tail before it could (but that’s just me).

I wasn't a fan of Dawn vs. Jessie in the Grand Festival, because it seemed so rushed and one-sided. I mean, I was completely expecting Jessie to lose, so it's not the "victory" as such that bothers me. It's just that, after coming this far, I think that Jessie's Sinnoh contest arc deserved to end on a bit more of a bang, not such a pathetic whimper.

Agreed, after all of the failed attempts at contests in Hoenn and Kanto they finally give her credit as a coordinator heck she even played by the rules!!! How do they repay that? They don’t show one of her matches in the GF and have a match where she loses for what 1 minute on the screen?

Squirtle Vs. Jessie's/ Banette in the last Kanto contest was a perfectly good battle.

Yeah, Squirte did do a good job plus that was the first fight to the finish contest match we got to see. I liked how Squirtle looked like a spaceship when flying through the flames from Will o Wisp. The thing I disliked was it taking Thunder head on and landing a Tackle on a Ghost type.

 

[firestar319]

I wasn't a fan of Dawn vs. Jessie in the Grand Festival, because it seemed so rushed and one-sided. I mean, I was completely expecting Jessie to lose, so it's not the "victory" as such that bothers me. It's just that, after coming this far, I think that Jessie's Sinnoh contest arc deserved to end on a bit more of a bang, not such a pathetic whimper.

I feel the same way. I kinda wished they would've actually dedicated an episode to their match, because Jessie deserved it since she was set up to be a potentially good coordinator. Added to the fact that she played by the rules, I would've thought they'd end her DP contest arc respectfully, even though we all knew she's lose at the GF.

 

[Karamazov]

I just watched a battle in which May stopped a Banette's Thunder by using Bubble. The bubbles then went on to hit Banette.

Thunder!

 

[Yamato-san]

Squirtle Vs. Jessie's/ Banette in the last Kanto contest was a perfectly good battle.

Bubble vs. Thunder?

Anyway, for her overall character development, I much prefer Haruka's journey over Hikari's, but I won't deny that several of her victories were half-assed (especially the evil that was Z.E.N.I. -_-). Though, I gotta defend the Eneko vs. Samayouru one.... the writers handled the actual battle like shit (Blizzard overpowers Hyper Beam? What?), but I think prior to that, Eneko was properly build up enough that it seemed very conceivable for it to win a Contest (and it didn't just pull Blizzard completely out of its ass before the Contest, either). Besides, what the hell was that kid (who ditched his awesome one-eyed Tuxedo Kamen get-up) gonna do with that Ribbon if he couldn't leave his home? It was clear that, storywise, Haruka should've won right from the beginning, they just needed to go about finding a better way for her to do it.

Come to think of it, as much as I thought Hikari's wins were overall more believable, a lot of them were pretty rigged as well. A lot of the problems stemmed from the "depletion" of points. No matter how long the writers worked with Contests, they could never figure out how to work that lousy point counter worth a damn, and it really showed throughout Diamond/Pearl when they stopped having the majority of Contest battles end in a KO (BTW, has ANYONE ever actually lost a contest from having their bar completely depleted?). I mean, her battling was usually done much better than any of the contests in AG, I'll give her that much, but a lot of that believability is really hard to swallow because they have to make that fucking bar barely a millimeter away from depletion all for some cheap dramatic effect before she makes some "great comeback" despite the fact that even the slightest screw-up (or merely getting hit from the opponent, if all those times the bar would zip down during a pummeling are any indication) should cause her to lose at this point.

Oh yeah, the Hikari vs. Haruka battle was one such match I particularly had problems with. Sure, they may have needed Hikari to get out of her depression after failing to make it past the appeals TWICE, but... I'm kinda sketchy on details, but as I recall, both were about even, with the final actions apparently clenching it before the time was out. Given the nature of a move like Mirror Coat, when you're using it to reflect Whirlpool (a special attack), shouldn't the points go in favor of the Mirror Coat-user? Though, they never really properly establish how the hell they judge these things, but I'd think that's how it should apply.