So, uh, how about that election?

[Nomura]

Oil is just a secondary reason for war, if at all. If we had just gone to war over oil, we would have said to hell with everything except the oil-rich regions. Instead, we're helping out the oil-poor Sunnis against the oil-rich Shiites. The greater reason for the war in Iraq was partially that intelligence at that point believed a legitimate threat existed from Saddam. More importantly, the extreme idealism of the neoconservative movement led it to believe that toppling one unpopular dictatorship in the heart of the Middle East could set off a wave of democratization.

Would we have said hell to everything but the oil rich regions? The American public can be sheepish at times and follow our leaders, no matter how incorrect and misguided they may be, but they would never go for that reason and say okay to war. The anti-war movement would be 10X greater if they just outright came out and said we were only going after oil rich regions.

BTW, that legit threat was found to be a lie early on in the war. Powell himself told Bush that there were NO WMD's, and when Bush told him that he was wrong and he was sticking with his story Powell resigned. That legit threat was treated just like 9/11 is now. A serious matter used to rationalize an unconstitutional war, though the matter has nothing to do with it...it's just a use of propoganda.

 

[Illidan]

Various thoughts on Palin, Voter Trends and My Prediction

One highly conservative coworker got me thinking about the election tonight. He's already adamantly made up his mind that McCain will win. For what reason is he so confident? "I'm voting for Sarah Palin with the reasonable expectation that McCain will die while in office".

How many Republicans out there do you think are voting for Sarah Palin, instead of John McCain? If you think back to the Summer, John McCain's Campaign was probably covered half as much by the media and was about as exciting as reading the dictionary. Palin comes on board on McCain's numbers soared. McCain's power is entirely contributory to the Vagina Factor.

My Community College held a mock election and here were the results:

Barack Obama (D): 67.6%
John McCain (R): 27.8%

Source:
http://www.northampton.edu/news/studentnews/election.htm

The remaining percentages were distributed amongst third-party candidates Ralph Nader, Cynthia McKinney and Bob Barr.

I think these results are fairly indicative of how young people are going to vote in this election. Barack Obama has the young vote in his corner, and rightfully so. I think young people can identify with a candidate that speaks to their interests, concerns and ideas. Young people will gravitate to the candidate that inspires and motivates, rather than the one who scares and divides.

I personally don't believe we have a choice in this election. If we elect John McCain, I feel this will spell certain death for the United States. Our wealth divide will continue, our reckless military presence around the world will continue and our country will continue to be divided. I don't see the United States surviving under another four years of Republican control.

That's why I'm drawing my line in the sand.

I'm going to make my prediction now and say that Barack Obama will be the next President of the United States of America. I'm going to lay my cards on the table and give this country the benefit of the doubt. We will elect a President that will focus his efforts on solving our economic woes, rebuilding our infrastructure and restoring our image in the world.

I know the thing that (personally) inspires me about Barack Obama is that, like JFK, he's called Americans to action. I believe Obama's message is to get out there and do whatever you can to improve your community, your state and your country. I think this kind of call-to-arms is more important than anything in this day and age because it's a way of uplifting ourselves out of the gloom-and-doom we've been subjected to for nearly eight years. As Barack himself eloquently put it, we are the ones we've been waiting for.

 

[Nomura]

One highly conservative coworker got me thinking about the election tonight. He's already adamantly made up his mind that McCain will win. For what reason is he so confident? "I'm voting for Sarah Palin will the reasonable expectation that McCain will die while in office".

How many Republicans out there do you think are voting for Sarah Palin, instead of John McCain? If you think back to the Summer, John McCain's Campaign was probably covered half as much by the media and was about as exciting as reading the dictionary. Palin comes on board on McCain's numbers soared. McCain's power is entirely contributory to the Vagina Factor.

My Community College held a mock election and here were the results:

Barack Obama (D): 67.6%
John McCain (R): 27.8%

Source:
http://www.northampton.edu/news/studentnews/election.htm

The remaining percentages were distributed amongst third-party candidates Ralph Nader, Cynthia McKinney and Bob Barr.

I think these results are fairly indicative of how young people are going to vote in this election. Barack Obama has the young vote in his corner, and rightfully so. I think young people can identify with a candidate that speaks to their interests, concerns and ideas. Young people will gravitate to the candidate that inspires and motivates, rather than the one who scares and divides.

I personally don't believe we have a choice in this election. If we elect John McCain, I feel this will spell certain death for the United States. Our wealth divide will continue, our reckless military presence around the world will continue and our country will continue to be divided. I don't see the United States surviving under another four years of Republican control.

That's why I'm drawing my line in the sand.

I'm going to make my prediction now and say that Barack Obama will be the next President of the United States of America. I'm going to lay my cards on the table and give this country the benefit of the doubt. We will elect a President that will focus his efforts on solving our economic woes, rebuilding our infrastructure and restoring our image in the world.

I know the thing that (personally) inspires me about Barack Obama is that, like JFK, he's called Americans to action. I believe Obama's message is to get out there and do whatever you can to improve your community, your state and your country. I think this kind of call-to-arms is more important than anything in this day and age because it's a way of uplifting ourselves out of the gloom-and-doom we've been subjected to for nearly eight years. As Barack himself eloquently put it, we are the ones we've been waiting for.

Your words should be published in paper's all over the world my friend. I'm behind you 100% in saying Obama will win, and that our country can go beyond it's history.

I feel that it is the time of the youth. I am the first generation in my family that I know of to be involved in politics. The rest of my family has said it's a hopeless endeavor, and refuse to partake in the government, going as far as to not one of them ever voteing. I've taken it upon myself to start a new legacy in my family, and with Obama I hope we can bring a new legacy in American history. For so long the generations ahead have ruled this country, and the voice of the youth has generally been silenced. Now we have someone on our side, and it's time to take the next step in purifying the corruption and unconstitutionalism in America. It's time we turn this country into a place in which the next generation(our children) can live free, truly act out their given rights, obtain an education, be properly insured, have a safer and healthier world. These are just a few things to hope for...but it will happen only if and when, Barack Obama becomes the next president of these UNITED States.

 

[bell02+]

The young vote is great, but I still worry and think it's unproven. Will 18-20somethings care enough to vote in this election, or is it all still a Douche bag verses a Turd Sandwich? (I don't know, I'm voting, but I've talked with my friends already on this, the ones that usually vote are voting, and the ones who passionately don't vote are not voting...)

And still... I have no real reason to tell people to vote... I mean... I am from California... we are very much a blue state. To a degree, a few more or less Obama votes may not matter. (Which is sad and painful to say that your vote isn't that important) Cherish your vote switch staters, for I have traded my right to truly vote for President for nice weather and expensive housing!

 

[Nomura]

The young vote is great, but I still worry and think it's unproven. Will 18-20somethings care enough to vote in this election, or is it all still a Douche bag verses a Turd Sandwich? (I don't know, I'm voting, but I've talked with my friends already on this, the ones that usually vote are voting, and the ones who passionately don't vote are not voting...)

And still... I have no real reason to tell people to vote... I mean... I am from California... we are very much a blue state. To a degree, a few more or less Obama votes may not matter. (Which is sad and painful to say that your vote isn't that important) Cherish your vote switch staters, for I have traded my right to truly vote for President for nice weather and expensive housing!

That is a problem. Generally the youth vote is not present during an election, mainly because the idea that our vote really doesn't count is always present. To me, and many young people I know, that doesn't matter, true or not. All that matters is that we vote for the man best for the job(Obama) that way we can get the America we want/need/deserve, or so that if for some reason he loses, we can use our freedoms to protest and say "Hey! I never wanted you to begin with, I picked the other guy!" unlike most who complain and never did a damn thing.

 

[The Big Al]

I've always been an opponent of the electoral college system. It does make some states more important than others. I also makes some votes worth more than others. Like Michigan has twenty times the population of Wyoming but doesn't get even six times the votes in the electoral college meaning a voter in Wyoming has more than three times the power of a voter in Michigan choosing a President. Not to mention is makes voting caging, suppression, and fraud easier.

Long story short, the electoral college should be abolished. The technology exists to get a reliable popular vote count, we should elect our president by that.

 

[Misty]

Generally what you'll find is that the youth vote is concentrated in swing states. The youth vote in 2004 overall was lower than the national average, but in places like Ohio and Florida, it was much closer. I suspect it's because young voters are more acutely aware of whether voting is worth it, and are less likely to vote if they live in a place like, say, Massachusetts or Texas.

 

[Irinya]

I've always been an opponent of the electoral college system. It does make some states more important than others. I also makes some votes worth more than others. Like Michigan has twenty times the population of Wyoming but doesn't get even six times the votes in the electoral college meaning a voter in Wyoming has more than three times the power of a voter in Michigan choosing a President. Not to mention is makes voting caging, suppression, and fraud easier.

Long story short, the electoral college should be abolished. The technology exists to get a reliable popular vote count, we should elect our president by that.

I agree with you to some extent, since I don't think the popular vote is to be trusted that much. What I'm trying to say is there will always be some idiot who will vote for McCain because he thinks Palin is 'hot', in what might today be counted as a blue state. Today, such a vote in say Massachusetts would go unnoticed, but if we were to get rid of the electoral college, that vote would help McCain get the presendicy (if the man voted for McCain because he truly like McCain's views and stances, I would have no problem with this, I have a problem with the stupidity.)

I think the electoral college should stay until most people start to think reasonably.

Also, CNN just posted an intresting blog on this topic:
Link

 

[Nomura]

I agree with you to some extent, since I don't think the popular vote is to be trusted that much. What I'm trying to say is there will always be some idiot who will vote for McCain because he thinks Palin is 'hot', in what might today be counted as a blue state. Today, such a vote in say Massachusetts would go unnoticed, but if we were to get rid of the electoral college, that vote would help McCain get the presendicy (if the man voted for McCain because he truly like McCain's views and stances, I would have no problem with this, I have a problem with the stupidity.)

I think the electoral college should stay until most people start to think reasonably.

Also, CNN just posted an intresting blog on this topic:
Link

You make a great point here...I mean...I can't tell you how many dudes I know call her a milf. Anyway, the problem with that is for people to vote on the issues, they have to know something about them. In America, the general voteing population does not know what is going on, what is up, or anything involving politics. They are far more interested in sex, money, and generally themselves, not giving a damn about their fellow Americans. The voters within that group are the voters who vote based on race, gender, ethnicity, and religion more than anyone else.

The next group is the group who know a little bit about politics, but only the aspects that concern themselves. Any other issue they don't know about doesn't matter to them, all that matters is who is going to help them with their two issues, even if the opposing candidate has the best ideas all around.

The third group is a group made of few, the few such as some of us. We, the ones who actually search every source, both biased and fair. We, the ones who actually take active roles in what is going on(I could be referring more to myself, not sure what u guys have done). We are the ones who not only analyze the issues important to us, but each issue the candidates bring up...and whoever we feel is the best all around is who we vote for.

The fourth and final group makes up the majority of America. This is the group who finds politics to be too complex, or boring, or they feel there is too much bad mouthing an propoganda involved. For those reasons these people don't even vote, they just sit home, and then when the problems come, they complain.

In order to fix the popular vote, and end the electorial college, we have to fix the problems within groups 1, 2, and 4. How you may ask? Not sure, but trying is better than nothing I say.

 

[Girafarig_Magcargo]

Don't be so hasty in dismissing the Electoral College. There are 2 true examples of the electoral vote circumventing the popular vote (1888 and 2000; the other cases had weird scenarios), but I don't think that's enough cause to abolish the system entirely.

First, a popular vote would simply shift the problem of "whose vote counts more" from big states vs. small states to rural vs. urban. A candidate could cruise through the major urban areas of the U.S. and pick up enough popular votes without touching the rural areas. You might say that in the current system, candidates just go through a few swing states, so there's no difference. In fact, it is much better for the nation that a candidate concentrate on a few swing states rather than major urban areas. The most important swing states (Ohio, Pennsylvania, Florida, Colorado, etc.) are swing states because they are fairly close cross-sections of American society as a whole. Demographically they reflect the nation's diversity, economically some are manufacturing while others are service based, and they contain both large urban areas and rural voters. A candidate who wants to win under the Electoral College has to have a broader appeal because the candidate must satisfy voters in these diverse states.

Second, the Electoral College helps preserve the character of the United States as a federal nation. This is a more minor point, but it helps maintain balance by contributing both state and popular interests to the election of the President.

Now would it be a better reflection of the nation's will if states apportioned their electors by district (as Maine and Nebraska do). Yes, and I think this would be a good improvement over the current system. However, this doesn't mean that the entire concept of the Electoral System has to go.

 

[bell02+]

That is a problem. Generally the youth vote is not present during an election, mainly because the idea that our vote really doesn't count is always present. To me, and many young people I know, that doesn't matter, true or not. All that matters is that we vote for the man best for the job(Obama) that way we can get the America we want/need/deserve, or so that if for some reason he loses, we can use our freedoms to protest and say "Hey! I never wanted you to begin with, I picked the other guy!" unlike most who complain and never did a damn thing.

That's the traditional argument, but I just can't bring my self to seriously use it to tell a person otherwise (we all know people in the US have a right to opinion wither it is warranted or not). I know it's not an argument that is convincing to the crowd. Many times they really do view elections in terms of "Douche Bag vs. a Turd Sandwich", and by not voting they claim in protest of either choice. (Like choosing wither to be shot in the head or through the heart) (Also, even though that isn't how it works).

Admittedly it seems Obama has most of my friends passionate, but for those that don't vote, I'm not sure if they are yet motivated enough to vote. However, this is me talking for my self at this time, that I am not sure how much it matters because Obama will probably win California anyways.

Basically, because of this, I use my argument to get people to vote to have them to vote for the laws, and measures. Things that I can say will effect them immediately and directly. (This is the only argument I feel I can make, but there is always a lack of passion for this, so it usually doesn't change anyones opinions)

I also admit to not knowing a real solution (well, I did just imply popularizing local elections over national ones) but I agree that Electoral Colleges share an important purpose, and even though I point out an issue I have with it, I still don't think it should be abolished.

 

[Nomura]

That's the traditional argument, but I just can't bring my self to seriously use it to tell a person otherwise. I know it's not an argument that is convincing to the crowd. Many times they really do view elections in terms of "Douche Bag vs. a Turd Sandwich", and by not voting they claim in protest of either choice. (Like choosing wither to be shot in the head or through the heart) (Also, even though that isn't how it works).

Admittedly it seems Obama has most of my friends passionate, but for those that don't vote, I'm not sure if they are yet motivated enough to vote. However, this is me talking for my self at this time, that I am not sure how much it matters because Obama will probably win California anyways.

Basically, because of this, I use my argument to get people to vote to have them to vote for the laws, and measures. Things that I can say will effect them immediately and directly. (This is the only argument I feel I can make, but there is always a lack of passion for this, so it usually doesn't change anyones opinions)

I also admit to not knowing a real solution (well, I did just imply popularizing local elections over national ones) but I agree that Electoral Colleges share an important purpose, and even though I point out an issue I have with it, I still don't think it should be abolished.

I've been using about 3 to 5 different arguments with different people on why they should vote, NOT who they should vote for, BUT why they should vote. Generally my most two current arguments are that if you don't vote, then you really don't have much to say when it comes time to complain, because you didn't do anything to prevent it. The other one is more of the argument that you use, but then I get the whole "Well I don't like either guy, why can't they get someone I like, then I'd vote" which is BS in my opinion.

In terms of the electoral college, I really don't like it. It gives unfair advantage to certain states, and when you have something like in 2000 in which more Americans wanted Gore, but the college voted Bush, it makes it a really flawed system. Until we find something better to use(since magcargo is also right) we're stuck with it, sadly.

 

[The Big Al]

Along with the Presidential race we have the senate races as well which are looking very bleak for the GOP. Dole, who was considered as safe at as can be at one point is now behind her challenger and the Dems are threatening in Minnesota (with Al Franken of all people) and Oregon. Looking at a Senate and House that will be loaded with Democrats, does McCain really want to be President?

 

[Misty]

A highly Democratic Congress may actually benefit McCain. If independents feel that Democrats are going to win overwhelmingly in Congress, they may want a Republican president to put the brakes on a Democratic agenda.

 

[The Big Al]

We'll have to see. We've already seen what happens when you have a Republican President and a Democratic Congress. It might stop either party's agenda but our country has become so polarized over the past years everything is the agenda. Bipartisanship is a lost art in America sadly.

 

[Misty]

that may be one of the specific appeals of McCain that other Republicans don't have, though.

 

[Illidan]

My friends... today I suspend my campaign and travel to Washington to address this financial crisis. Aren't I such a maverick? I'm willing to throw away the entire election to save the country in it's time of need. I am the only person, the ONLY senator, the ONLY one who can save us in our time of need and I shall answer the call!


That means you'll all vote for me, right? I'm so much more selfless than that Barack Obama who is so elitist! Hold onto your guns and bibles America, I'm coming! McCain awwwwwwway!

 

[Misty]

i like the sig, makes you seem incredibly unbiased

that said, this does seem like a political ploy. simply, all this really does is throw presidential politics into the mix of an extreme controversy. it doesn't help that mccain is trying to postpone the debate.

 

[Nomura]

My friends... today I suspend my campaign and travel to Washington to address this financial crisis. Aren't I such a maverick? I'm willing to throw away the entire election to save the country in it's time of need. I am the only person, the ONLY senator, the ONLY one who can save us in our time of need and I shall answer the call!


That means you'll all vote for me, right? I'm so much more selfless than that Barack Obama who is so elitist! Hold onto your guns and bibles America, I'm coming! McCain awwwwwwway!

Haha! Sarcasm is amazing!

Seriously, we all know what this is. Just like his selection of Sarah Palin as his VP, this is simply a political move. I mean, the economy is his worst position. He's the same guy who said he didn't know very much, if anything at all about the economy, and had alot to learn. He's the same guy who not that many weeks ago stated the backbone of the economy was just fine. Are we all so naive to believe HE's the guy who's going to save our economy? No, this is just his special way of saying he's not ready for the debate on Friday, he's falling in the polls, and needs time to catch up if he's seriously going to win this election.

Besides, there are 98 other senators he can call on, and well over 400 Representative's, plus the members of his(Bush) cabinet he can utilize. Bush seriously does not NEED John McCain and Barack Obama...yet both are heading out tomorrow...and as Obama said...the debate should still go on.

 

[Illidan]

i like the sig, makes you seem incredibly unbiased

lol I've been an avid Obama supporter since early 2007 and never claimed otherwise