Back to Basics! Endgame(28/6/2015)

[jackatlasred]

Re: Back to Basics! Day 1(16/6/2015)

Well I died last game after someone just burst out, and then again in the faction mafia, (that time it was me in the QT.) But yeah.

As for that @Zexy; I'd rather say that during the day.

 

[HumanDawn]

Re: Back to Basics! Day 1(16/6/2015)

She made it easy for me and Seppe to win the game, as she claimed she knew the cop in that game, you guys once again lynched her for claiming that.

She claimed she knew who the Cop nearing the end of the Day Phase, when she had plenty of votes on her already. I don't recall it ever being confirmed whether it was true or not, or just some guess, but that was a different case that I don't see what has to do with what she did here.

 

[jackatlasred]

Re: Back to Basics! Day 1(16/6/2015)

She made it easy for me and Seppe to win the game, as she claimed she knew the cop in that game, you guys once again lynched her for claiming that.

She claimed she knew who the Cop nearing the end of the Day Phase, when she had plenty of votes on her already. I don't recall it ever being confirmed whether it was true or not, or just some guess, but that was a different case that I don't see what has to do with what she did here.

Exactly why I didn't defend her extensively. It was just a long shot prediction.

And the parentheses that are after my sentence when I said that.

 

[Snowy]

Re: Back to Basics! Day 1(16/6/2015)

Not going to quote your entire post @HumanDawn; as i do see your point. However, I still believe revealing the power roles in the first round is a stupid thing to do, and that's why i doubt Tyler is what he says he is.

With regards to you saying you think he probably is, my point before is that you assumed Pikachu was mafia due to her behaviour and she turned out to be a townie.

*shrug* I don't know, maybe you're right and it's just my inexperience causing me to suspect Tyler. But let's say you're right, and Tyler is the doctor. What has that gained us? I mean, we lost Pikachu, and Tyler will have to waste his power protecting himself.

But i do have to wonder if the Pikachu thing was intentional. I mean, i did notice a couple of people arguing strongly that she was mafia. I have to wonder if those were genuine belief or mafia plot...

 

[Doctor Floptopus]

Re: Back to Basics! Day 1(16/6/2015)

@Zexy; I was reading through your post to Tyler and noticed this:

I approve. Will elaborate.

I could have sworn I said that, not jack.

 

[Zexy]

Re: Back to Basics! Day 1(16/6/2015)

@Flopjack; OMG no, indeed my fault. Sorry and thanks!

But let's say you're right, and Tyler is the doctor. What has that gained us? I mean, we lost Pikachu, and Tyler will have to waste his power protecting himself.

I think HD has adressed this. Because of Pikachu's pretty bad town play, we got this undesirable result. The fact that if Tyler is mafia, said result won't be as undesirable as we currently think it is doesn't make him mafia. We can't assume that because Pikachu was town, she knew that what she did will expose Tyler who is really the doctor. I think it's called wishful thinking.

 

[HumanDawn]

Re: Back to Basics! Day 1(16/6/2015)

Not going to quote your entire post @HumanDawn; as i do see your point. However, I still believe revealing the power roles in the first round is a stupid thing to do, and that's why i doubt Tyler is what he says he is.

Yeah, I thought it was pretty premature too, but I can buy it with Tyler's inexperience. I've seen early PR outings with new players before, a Cop ended up outing Day 1 in Breaking Bad Mafia and expected everyone to just him trust him and there was no Cop claim mentioned anywhere.

With regards to you saying you think he probably is, my point before is that you assumed Pikachu was mafia due to her behaviour and she turned out to be a townie.

Well yeah, I can't always be right, but we could handle this better and like I've said you've brought up a fair, legitimate point, that's why there isn't anything inherently wrong with your logic in doubting TylerM. I agree that the Cop shouldn't just claim to TylerM, but we shouldn't lynch TylerM with no Doctor counterclaims. If TylerM isn't the Doctor, then if they don't protect themselves, they might get Nightkilled by the Mafia and we'd know TylerM is a big fake for sure.

*shrug* I don't know, maybe you're right and it's just my inexperience causing me to suspect Tyler. But let's say you're right, and Tyler is the doctor. What has that gained us? I mean, we lost Pikachu, and Tyler will have to waste his power protecting himself.

Yeah, we've unfortunately gained nothing, but say if TylerM is really the Doctor, and the Cop doesn't check them, they'll have a bit of a higher chance of finding Mafia in their check if they manage to live and not target the same player the Mafia picks to kill, at least.

But i do have to wonder if the Pikachu thing was intentional. I mean, i did notice a couple of people arguing strongly that she was mafia. I have to wonder if those were genuine belief or mafia plot...

There could definitely be scum in The_Pikachu wagon.

 

[TylerM]

Re: Back to Basics! Day 1(16/6/2015)

I just woke up. It's sad that Pikachu was Town, but her actions led us to believe she wasn't.

 

[Zexy]

Re: Back to Basics! Day 1(16/6/2015)

Yeah, we've unfortunately gained nothing, but say if TylerM is really the Doctor, and the Cop doesn't check them, they'll have a bit of a higher chance of finding Mafia in their check if they manage to live and not target the same player the Mafia picks to kill, at least.

Assuming the cop trusts him, of course. This is pretty much the virtue of a confirmed townie. Any other confirmed townie would work similarly, the protection has to be wasted on them else they would get NK'd anyway.

There could definitely be scum in The_Pikachu wagon.

Sure.

 

[jackatlasred]

Re: Back to Basics! Day 1(16/6/2015)

well also @Zexy; why would the pikachu vote for themselves. some quotes are wrong

 

[Zexy]

Re: Back to Basics! Day 1(16/6/2015)

Okay, I've noticed I've made many mistakes with the quotes lately, I think I should publicly apologize, but when I have to work with so many quotes per day there are always some that slip out. As for why I'm working over all these quotes, it's because everything in mafia is important.

That unvote Rabbit vote Pikachu one was by HumanDawn, and the vote count right under it reflects this.

 

[CrackFox]

Re: Back to Basics! Day 1(16/6/2015)

I was really growing quite confident TP would indeed flip Mafia so i'd go as far as to say i'm surprised she didn't. I've played many games with her and her actions struck me as unusual though some of you disagree apparently but it's done now. I don't trust Tyler completely but whenever someone claims anything as bold as a power role they are telling the truth 9 times out of 10 in my experience. Lying about something like that is really risky, especially openly admitting it in thread for everyone to potentially contest it, very risky. I think it's unlikely he's lying about being the doctor. Claims aside, he gives me town vibes anyway.

The mafia will want to kill him now but he can get round that by protecting himself. I think whoever the cop is should just make the decision they think is best. I'd personally consider checking Tyler a waste, yes he could be Mafia but that is true of the rest of us anyway. I also think people shouldn't take too much influence away from what others tell them they should do in thread. A handful of those 'advisors' are usually giving deliberately bad advice.

 

[HumanDawn]

Re: Back to Basics! Day 1(16/6/2015)

Reads...!

1) jackatlasred - Despite how scummy his posts are, I'm surprisingly getting a Town read from him. This mostly comes from how he approached me in PM and asked me he got a plan to try to make The_Pikachu out the Doctor claim she said she got to him by him fakeclaiming Cop. Now, let's say TylerM is really Town, what would be the point in jack telling me this plan? He'd know The_Pikachu is Town, and he'd know TylerM is Town too, so he'd know The_Pikachu is probably lying, so why bother? It would be risky to fakeclaim Cop too as it would bring a lot of attention on him, and he'd be seen as scummy for claimfishing, even though I think it wouldn't have been bad to get The_Pikachu's Doctor out.

3) TylerM - I think he's legit. No counterclaim so far, I think his outing makes sense from his inexperience and he's been giving me Town reads. I've told Zexy one method to try to see if they're a legit Doctor so hopefully we get to see if he's legit.

4) Zexy - I think he's Town. He comes off like as if he really wants to be helpful, his posts and logic make sense from his Town self, and when I mentioned people are free to talk to me on Skype, he came on. Seems genuine to me. I could be very wrong like I have been in the past, which is why I recommend a keen eye on him.

5) Rabbit - I expect more, but I need more posts before being able to make any read. So far it's not good.

6) Sword Master - Already explained, still no reply to my post so nothing different.

7) Flopjack - They seem like they're feeling very safe and stress free, if that makes sense? Like, they feel no pressure and their posts make sense, they're pretty easy going and seem to be contributing at a decent pace. I'm leaning Town, I just don't suspect anything bad yet.

8) Gafigglethorp - He seems okay. I have a neutral-town read on him. Like Flopjack he sounds pretty natural, but I don't think he has been that contributive, so it would be cool if he was more involved. I can't find or think of anything eye raising for him.

9) Seppe - I honestly keep on forgetting what you have even done in the game, most likely because you haven't said anything noteworthy or expressed yourself in a way that draws people's attention to you and make them care. You keep on escaping my mind, and I don't recall your posts being contributive.

11) Melpomeme - They seem like they have the Town's best interests in mind. Before The_Pikachu told me she was scumbaiting, Melpomeme told me to be incredibly cautious about The_Pikachu since she could actually be a Doctor, and that they trusted me because of how I dealt with attention I got in-thread. Here's how it went:

Pikachu's post had come across as an obvious fish for claims to me, too, but... I have a really, really bad feeling about this all. Like--bad enough that I'd think it might be best that you unvote until she outs it, and I don't want to say anything in-thread for fear that it's, like, giving her the idea?

See, I was in the middle of writing a reply to the thread, and it suddenly hit me as I was writing it: she acts as if her innocence proves the doctor's innocence, but it makes no real sense for the doctor to claim to her, since there's no reason to trust her, right? So think about it this way: for some reason, to her, her innocence correlates to the doctor's innocence. However, there's no reason for someone to claim to her. But something that makes this all make sense is that she's the doctor herself and outed as a gambit-esque thing to fish for counterclaims in-thread. If that were true, the issues--how her post sounding like it was fishing, why she had a pre-formed resistance to outing the doctor's name, how she got the claim in the first place, why she thinks her innocence equals the doctor's innocence--with the situation seem to be cleared away, and so forth.

It's premature and paranoid to ask you to unvote, I understand, but I can't help this inkling of fear that this will turn into a bandwagon on her that's irreversible (as in, we won't have enough time to unvote/so many people vote that we can't match it or something along those lines). And her behavior does make sense with her being mafia, as well, but this idea that she's the doctor makes so much sense to me that I'm too worried to act until she ends up outing who the doctor is. (and, well, it's a bit risky to go PM you out of the blue like this in the case that you're mafia, but I just don't buy the arguments in-thread on you and I think you've proven yourself well enough that I'm mostly okay with telling you this)

I didn't reply to it because I was thinking about what they said and considering the possibilities, but then I went to take a shower to come back to The_Pikachu telling me she was scumbaiting, so I thought of just outing it. Scum could always fake some concern, but it doesn't come off to me as that way and that they were genuinely worried of a The_Pikachu lynch backfiring, but then The_Pikachu said she scumbaited so their theory was wrong. So I'm leaning Town.

12) Denial - I'm wondering if he didn't post because I might have hogged him about his "not voting in Day 1" philosophy, although I recall that in our last game together I didn't bother him about it but I could be easily misremembering. I'd like a post with an explanation before I make any read, and if he keeps the inactivity up he'll be subbed out.

13) HeroicPooch - I'm leaning Town. The concern that TylerM is Mafia sounded genuine to me, and his thoughts make sense, I just disagree with how scummy TylerM looks and about advocating a lynch. Nothing that HeroicPooch has said would make me think TylerM should be lynched, and I just don't think it's worth the risk when TylerM is uncounterclaimed. It could be something very regrettable.

14) CrackFox - I expect more. I'm neutral, but I can see her fit scum. Her reads made sense to me, but her vote on The_Pikachu was very awkward, when the only thing The_Pikachu said about me was how she just finds me to be scummy because of my avatar more than anything. Of course she could just be busy, but I'm just expecting more and hope that she gives more to get a better read on her.

15) Froakie - Honestly I'm seeing her as scum more, her two posts in the game feel like they're just there and as she said in her second post she was just rambling, and what she said, she said it in a way that doesn't give me the impression she has the Town's best interests, like Melpomeme. It's still early in the game so I'm hoping there are posts that are more important and game affecting. I can forgive the first post but the second post felt forced to me in the sense that she's saying things for the sake of saying them not being able to reach conclusions.

EDIT: Never mind about Crackfox, I'm leaning Town from that post.

 

[Soulmaster]

Re: Back to Basics! Day 1(16/6/2015)

Spoiler

1) @jackatlasred;
3) @TylerM;
4) @Zexy;
5) @Rabbit;
6) @Sword Master;
7) @Flopjack;
8) @Gafigglethorp;
9) @Seppe;
10) @HumanDawn;
11) @Melpomene;
12) @Denial;
13) @HeroicPooch;
14) @CrackFox;
15) @Froakie;

Nobody knew what had happened. It was all a big mess. But they knew one thing when they woke up. There was one less person in the village.

Spoiler

HeroicPooch has been killed. He was a Villager.

It is now Day 2.
You may now vote. You have 48 hours. Ending Sunday the 21st.

Keep the activity up : )

 

[TylerM]

Re: Back to Basics! Day 2(19/6/2015)

RIP Pooch. I'm gonna go through Pooch's posts and see if there are any signs as to why he was targeted.

 

[jackatlasred]

Re: Back to Basics! Day 2(19/6/2015)

Now I have no doubts, my vote goes to Flopjack, but I would like to have some time to figure it out.

Also before I do I'd like to be on my laptop. (I'm on my phone as I am at chilli's.)

 

[TylerM]

Tyler's thought's on Pooch's murder

A bunch of Pooch's posts that show that he genuinely thought I was mafia, plus Zexy's final count(wall of quotes):

Spoiler

I'm a little suspicious of TylerM's doctor claim. From my understanding, it would be a major benefit for the doctor to lay low, to do his work from the shadows. If the mafia took the doctor out, it'd give them an advantage (doctor can't protect someone if he's been killed), so drawing attention to himself as the doctor seems like a silly idea to me.

Vote: TylerM

I'm a little suspicious of TylerM's doctor claim. From my understanding, it would be a major benefit for the doctor to lay low, to do his work from the shadows. If the mafia took the doctor out, it'd give them an advantage (doctor can't protect someone if he's been killed), so drawing attention to himself as the doctor seems like a silly idea to me.

Vote: TylerM

Silly or not, you imply that he might be the doc, so why vote for him? Even if the doc doesn't play the way we would like him to, we can't lynch him!

I don't think you read my post, which makes me a very sad Pooch. I'm saying that I believe TylerM is mafia and claimed to be the doctor so that we wouldn't suspect him. There are 11 townies... 2 power roles. The Mafia knows whos on their side, but not which of the townies holds the power roles. I would venture a guess that the doctor and cop are very valuable targets, which means that revealing themselves this early in the game is very dangerous, as it means the mafia would target them. On the other hand, the town needs the doctor and cop, so the town wouldn't target them on purpose, which means that the mafia pretending to be one of those two roles makes them safe from the town's attack, if the town believes them.

Is there a flaw in my logic?

The mafia knows who their team members are.

http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/f362/playing-hosting-guides-121929/

They are the agents of the seedy underworld. They’re a small group of players who know their teammates' identities and roles and must eliminate Townspeople from the game to win. Their main weakness is their limited numbers; their greatest strengths are having a team they can coordinate actions with and being able to kill at night.

Obviously they know if one of their own is pretending to be the power role.

Which is why the doctor coming out so early is, in my opinion, counter intuitive. (I hope thats spelled right) That's why i don't believe your claim.

He did it to root out a mafioso. Pikachu's plan messed it up though. He can also protect himself. He can even get an alliance with the cop later on, if he gets trusted. It wasn't the best thing to do, but now it happened, and since the Pikachu case will be resolved soon, it might not be as bad as we think...

That's possible. I just don't buy it.

The mafia knows who their team members are.

http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/f362/playing-hosting-guides-121929/

Yeah, they should know, but I think Tyler's point was like how he thinks the Mafia wouldn't give up one of their own to have a 50/50 chance. I disagree though since I think it's worth the chance and the confusion.

Exactly. I think the confusion is what Tyler was counting on, personally.

I just see it as regular pikachu behavior (from what I've seen).

This is pretty much what i am trying to figure out, Is it regular pikachu behaviour and the voting against her is a bandwagon created by the mafia? Or is she mafia and using confusion to her advantage.

Why do you so firmly believe he really is the doctor?

I mean, with respect, you believed Pikachu was mafia and she wasn't. Don't you at least question your other assumptions?

What are you talking about? I've always said that I think he's likely the Doctor and how it makes sense to believe he likely is unless there are counterclaims. That was a reply to you of how you said that if you're wrong about TylerM and that he's actually the Doctor, then that means we've lost the Doctor, and I told you that if that were the case, then we haven't necessarily lost the Doctor because TylerM should be able to protect themselves.

I quoted that reply for convenience. I want to know why you believe he's the doctor... and don't just quote something I may have read earlier.

I still believe he's mafia and I've seen nothing to change that.

Not going to quote your entire post as i do see your point. However, I still believe revealing the power roles in the first round is a stupid thing to do, and that's why i doubt Tyler is what he says he is.

With regards to you saying you think he probably is, my point before is that you assumed Pikachu was mafia due to her behaviour and she turned out to be a townie.

*shrug* I don't know, maybe you're right and it's just my inexperience causing me to suspect Tyler. But let's say you're right, and Tyler is the doctor. What has that gained us? I mean, we lost Pikachu, and Tyler will have to waste his power protecting himself.

But i do have to wonder if the Pikachu thing was intentional. I mean, i did notice a couple of people arguing strongly that she was mafia. I have to wonder if those were genuine belief or mafia plot...

FINAL VOTE COUNT:
Flopjack I (The_Pikachu)
HumanDawn I (Sword Master)
HeroicPooch I (jackatlasred)
TylerM I (HeroicPooch)
The_Pikachu VII (CrackFox, HumanDawn, Seppe, Flopjack, Melpomene, TylerM, Zexy)

My thoughts:

Spoiler

Now, if you noted the bolded parts, you'd see that if I were mafia, I literally had every single reason under the Sun to murder Pooch. He suspected me as mafia since his second post all the way to his last, and he was the only person in the entire game to vote for me(the Doctor) to be lynched. Mafia is trying to get you to lynch me. Mafia targeted a player that wanted me lynched with every fiber of their being, knowing that I(the Doctor), would not protect anyone besides myself. If anything, mafia targeting Pooch is all the more reason to believe that I'm the Doctor, because they want me to be lynched. They want Town to lynch the Doctor. The mafia knew targeting me in the night was risky, as they'd lose a night kill if I were the Doctor, so they decided to kill someone they knew would not get protected, because A. their top choice for lynch was the un'CC'ed Doctor and B. they hated the Doctor, so the Doctor wouldn't protect him.

tl;dr Mafia targeted Pooch because he thought I was scum and they want Town to lynch the Doctor.

 

[jackatlasred]

Re: Back to Basics! Day 2(19/6/2015)

I think we all know better than to fall for those trick @TylerM; although this does make you suspicious (not that it matters to me as I already have another target.

Oh and since my vote won't come for about 10-12 hours (cause sleep) I want flop to say a few words in defense, @Flopjack; just to be sure you Answer me tomorrow.

 

[Seppe]

Re: Back to Basics! Day 2(19/6/2015)

I think we all know better than to fall for those trick @TylerM; although this does make you suspicious (not that it matters to me as I already have another target.

tbh, what TylerM said actually makes sense.

Only problem I see with it is that nobody even seemed to suspect Tyler at this point (except Pooch and maybe you), so it seems like it'd be hard to pull off him actually getting lynched.

But now I must go to bed, will post more tomorrow when I am less busy.

 

[Zexy]

Re: Back to Basics! Day 2(19/6/2015)

Now I have no doubts, my vote goes to Flopjack, but I would like to have some time to figure it out.

We can't afford a mislynch, so care to explain why Flopjack is this vote-worthy? I haven't seen anyone else (bar dead Pikachu) pushing this.

tl;dr Mafia targeted Pooch because he thought I was scum and they want Town to lynch the Doctor.

Pretty good point. I just have a little thing to add; I got cop vibes from his posting. By voting the unCCd doc he made himself look somewhat scummy, yet not extremely to the point of lynch-worthy. Besides, he bothered a bit too much to prove if the doc is who he says he is, which would make sense if he was the cop. The mafia could have also thought of this and try to kill him as a possible cop. This I could only say after his death of course, I wouldn’t say this for an alive player, even worse at night.

Oh and since my vote won't come for about 10-12 hours (cause sleep) I want flop to say a few words in defense, @Flopjack; just to be sure you Answer me tomorrow.

It could have come at the point you said this, since you insist a bit too much already on lynching Flop.